S06.E07: Thanksgiving 2017.11.23

Oliver celebrates Thanksgiving with his family but the happy moment is interrupted. Meanwhile, Black Siren returns to wreak havoc on the holiday.

 

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It's funny how Samanda Watson is both the most competent investigator since she's not fooled at all about Oliver Queen not being the GA but she's also simultaneously the worst at her job since it would have been so easy to catch him dead to rights just by following him once he made bail.  

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I started out being really interested in this episode and ended this episode with not being so interested in just about every storyline.

I love me some Black Siren but it is getting quite old that they really aren't doing anything to grow the character #shocker. We have Caydens motivations so what the hell are hers? Come on now.

It was nice to see Thea wake up but could they be anymore cliche? First time we see her since the premiere and she miraculously wakes up after Oliver visits her.

They had quite a few rifts going on in this episode and they all got wrapped up with a pretty bow which is a double edged sword. It's nice it isn't unnecessary drama but I also feel like it could've played out for maybe 1 or 2 episodes more for some.

So now Oliver went from retired Green Arrow to visting Green Arrow, he is just keeping the outfit warm for someone else....I dont see this ending pretty on the fan reaction side of things. 

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From the live posting thread:

How are they gonna let Oliver leave town for WA's wedding?

Whether he could leave the city depends on the terms of his bail, but in his case, he probably wouldn’t have any travel restrictions. He’s not really a flight risk, considering he’s the mayor (and his GA activities necessarily take place in Star City). Also, at least in the federal system (which is where Oliver would be prosecuted since the FBI was involved, that scene notwithstanding), Even if a defendant does have travel restrictions, judges will grant motions for a defendant to travel. 

On another note, I hope Thea’s Thanksgiving Dinner was leftovers. If not, Star City held its election on Thanksgiving Day. The hell?

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I'm glad Thea's awake, but that ending was corny. 

But I am surprised by how much I've liked Oliver/Felicity/William scenes this season, and the same was true for this episode. 

I feel like it should have been really easy to prove those "cops" weren't cops, but they needed things to go that way which is just stupid. 

Also, didn't Felicity mention the FBI was surveilling Oliver 24/7 in 604? What, once he was arrested (and, you know, when he left the country for two episodes), they stopped? 

Like I said in the live posting thread, Cayden James is probably really regretting using Black Siren. "You don't need to kill." "But I want to." "Don't scream." Screams. Don't do X. Does X. 

And while I hate another Myson, I think the simple fact that Michael Emerson plays Cayden James doesn't make me automatically hate the storyline. That's the power of Michael Emerson.

Liked the Oliver and Diggle scenes for the most part, but I hated that "perfect life" comment. BRAINWASHING. It's not hard to remember.

Still annoyed by Curtis. Pretty much always annoyed by Curtis now. What this episode told me is that I kind of wouldn't mind a rift between Felicity and Curtis that lasted a couple episodes with Curtis so very clearly in the wrong. Just because, ugh, Curtis, shut up. 

Oh, and I hate that Diggle didn't tell Felicity what was going on. "Catch me up later" does not equal, "don't tell me and leave me to find out from the newbies." 

But Oliver, lying to William? Really? Ugh, secrets.

And just throwing out my wish for Felicity and Lance to talk again. They shared scenes in this episode. But... nothing. 

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Myson Myson Myson JFC. Can they write nothing else?

All we need is for Cayden's Myson to be Felicity's  dead ex Cooper. Let's just go full circle here, I expect nothing else from this show.

Edited by JJ928.

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I was enjoying the episode for the most part until Diggle said the alien delusion was their perfect world and then I was like nah, bye! LMAO.

I really like Michael Emerson in the role of Cayden James but I hate that they've bought up yet another son. I reiterate what I said last week. This show has a complex about sons and I'm getting really pissed off with it. Women are real too. If you had to go with that lame-ass avenge my child plot, at least make it a daughter. SNORE.

I enjoyed the Olicity moments, as always, though there was less than I was expecting given all those pap pics, haha. The kid is still really wooden but I'm really loving the Queen family they're building. What a turnaround! 

Happy that Thea's awake but I'm a bit confused about how she woke up? Did Felicity give her some drug? IDK. It was weird. And that scene felt a bit awkward? 

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9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's funny how Samanda Watson is both the most competent investigator since she's not fooled at all about Oliver Queen not being the GA but she's also simultaneously the worst at her job since it would have been so easy to catch him dead to rights just by following him once he made bail.  

I’m just waiting for her to reveal that the reason she’s so gung ho on putting Oliver away is because she had a child- a SON, who idolized The Green Arrow, and that HerSon, was a casualty.🙄🙄🙄

And as I posted in the live thread, Cayden James and his monitoring Siren and her goons, telling them what to do, not to do, and reprimanding them, gave me visions of Person of Interest and the number of times Reese ignored Finch!🤪🤪

Cayden is TOTALLY EVOHL FINCH!!! I expect him to bring in his own associate who he could always trust in the form of one James Caviezel.*

*Okay, not really. But I would really love it if they did!

What?

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Sigh.... so, of course they end up having Cayden James' motivation be that Oliver/Green Arrow somehow ended his son's life.  Why must they always go down a cliched route like this?  Can't you just let the man be evil for the sake of it?  After being all excited in his first appearance, I'm already worried they're going to end up wasting Michael Emerson here.  Maybe he'll end up pulling a Damien Dahrk/Neal McDonough and end up going to Legends of Tomorrow, and fare much better there.

So, Oliver ends up getting arrested and the show continues to make Watson so dimensional jerkish about it to the point that is clear that if she isn't in league with Cayden, she'll end up being bad somehow and need to be taken out.  I can't wait to see what her evidence is though.  Personally, I'm voting for them acquiring a tape of Barry blabbing Oliver's identity to someone, because that would totally happen!

 Man, I apparently haven't been paying attention to the Felicity/Curtis stuff, because I totally missed that she had already gave their company a name and idea, so him getting pissed came out of nowhere for me.  Granted, it's hard for me to clearly care, because I find him so obnoxious now that I'm all for Felicity doing what she does best.

Diggle and Oliver confronting one another was tough and well acted by Stephen Amell and especially David Ramsey.

Hey, Thea is finally awake!  I almost forgot about her.  And it officially means that Chase's grand plan was shit, because he only managed to take out stupid Samantha due to her being stupid.

Thanks to Cayden's manipulating Team Arrow into fighting goons dressed as cops, suddenly all of Star City turns on them and passes the anti-vigilante bill.  I'm confused over the timeline, because it felt like voting was already going on before this all happened, so would it have really been enough to turn the tide?

Oliver lying to William is so going to come back to haunt him and I'll evilly laugh when it does.

No wonder they aired this during actual Thanksgiving, because despite some new movements and revelations, this episode was a pretty big turkey for me.

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Did that episode feel really choppy to anyone else? Everything just felt very disjointed. And trying to shoehorn in the concert footage was incredibly awkward (and made the dialogue really hard to hear in some of the stadium scenes). Whatever crazy amount they paid for those music rights, it wasn't worth it.

No wonder DR is talking in interviews about how the Dominators showed him his "perfect life" - that's the show's take on it, too.  Would love to know how that squares with him seemingly not having his wife and kid in that life...

I know JH has a tendency to play sultry with everyone but can she tone it down in scenes with Quentin? It's weird. 

I really hope Felicity using the angel investor's money for bail doesn't delay her company storyline.

Yet another villain motivated by father/son issues. They're just going to do this every season now, huh? I at least hope the son is someone we know. Roy? Cooper?

I'm thrilled Thea is back and that family moment at the end was so cute, I'm willing to overlook that William is already calling her "Auntie." Oliver making him call John "Mr Diggle" was a nice touch though. And I'm glad he's calling Oliver "Dad" now and they didn't turn it into a big thing. 

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Also they really need to either get rid of BS or do something else with her because she's just...there? What does she add? You could basically just give her scenes to a random actor and it wouldn't change anything. I'm really confused as to what they're doing with her tbh. 

It's even more baffling when the episode description was all BLACK SIREN RETURNS TO WREAK HAVOC and I'm like...did she??

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Bonus: 

Edited by Soulfire.

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1 minute ago, Trisha said:

Did that episode feel really choppy to anyone else?

YES. It didn't have a good flow - or any flow whatsoever. Thumbs down.

All of these storylines make even less sense than Arrow usually makes too, and I don't know what to do with it. Is this FBI storyline peak stupid? Or have we not yet reached the summit of stupid mountain? Do I want to know? 

I'm glad Thea's awake but that revival was the biggest no big deal rise from a six-month coma ever. 

Caden James had promise and now that's gone. He's just some snake after revenge for HisSon with an annoying set of goons. There secrets flying around everywhere despite all the promises to stop keeping secrets.

ARROW, 

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About the Curtis/Felicity disagreement. On one hand, yes, it's Curtis' prototype. But on the other, he hadn't even decided to mass produce it himself, that was Felicity's idea, so to suddenly spring the "IT'S MINE!" excuse on her felt unfair. She's literally giving him a platform to mass produce his work. 

IDK, this whole thing makes me angry because this was supposed to be Felicity's company and they stole it and made her share it with Curtis just like they do with her skillset just to make him relevant. So basically Curtis can GTFO. I hate him.

Edited by Angel12d.

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I feel like when under investigation by the FBI for being a vigilante, it’s not a good idea to talk about your past as said vigilante in public places. Especially after being arrested. Yes, I’m talking to you, Oliver. 

Also, it may not be the case, but my first thought when Curtis got pissy about the company name was he wanted his name to be part of it. Maybe that’s just because he’s annoying me so much. 

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I watched with my 2 nieces. It was their way of not having to go to bed. 

SA showed an array of emotions today. He did a goid job. 

My feed stopped at 29 minutes and was off for 4 minutes. Doubt anything of importance happened. 

There were several comments made by other people watching the show that really slammed several of the actors. They were just checking out what we were watching.

They loved ME.

Someone noticed that Diggle whispered as GA and then when OQ took over he did the same. Asked if that was the GAs thing. 

So they are not going to tell us the name of FSs company?

The Olicity scenes were good but not much there.

They could have made this a bit more exciting with a little more effort. Our loss.

I am now ready for Curtis to be gone.  Actually for all the newbies to be gone  

 

@statsgirl Go to the doctor on Monday to see if I need to schedule an MRI. 

Edited by BunsenBurner.

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I haven't watched the episode but what is this I'm hearing about Digg's "dream life"?!?! His dream life is erasing his wife/son or daughter and becoming GA?!?! 

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How much longer is the show going to drag out this fucking plotline? How many times has Oliver gotten arrested for being the Green Arrow/Hood/Vigilante?

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

About the Curtis/Felicity disagreement. On one hand, yes, it's Curtis' prototype. But on the other, he hadn't even decided to mass produce it himself, that was Felicity's idea, so to suddenly spring the "IT'S MINE!" excuse on her felt unfair. She's literally giving him a platform to mass produce his work. 

IDK, this whole thing makes me angry because this was supposed to be Felicity's company and they stole it and made her share it with Curtis just like they do with her skillset just to make him relevant. So basically Curtis can GTFO. I hate him.

I feel like Felicity has always been more of a computer whiz and is mainly focused on programming and hacking whereas Curtis is more focused on inventing various gadgets.  

Also,

H O S S E T T E

O

S

S

E

T

T

E

I really liked how Renee called Felicty "Hossette" and while the writers have disappointed me with their storylines, they're really done a good job with Renee's characterization.

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3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I haven't watched the episode but what is this I'm hearing about Digg's "dream life"?!?! His dream life is erasing his wife/son or daughter and becoming GA?!?! 

Talking to Oliver, Diggle mentioned the alien delusion from last year and how it showed their perfect lives. And his perfect life was being GA. 

It's bullshit basically. 

Edited by Angel12d.

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Diggle's in the hospital and his wife doesn't bother showing up to see what's up?  Lyla must be out of town again.

I'd still like to know why Agent Watson comes across as SO pissed off at Oliver being the GA.  They brought up the alien invasion from last year and the POTUS herself was happy to give him credit for helping to save the planet - shouldn't that earn him some slack from the Feds?  Heck, after next week that will probably be two the entire planet owes him.  There are plenty of criminals out there who don't have "saved the planet" checked off multiple times on their resumes.  That being said, if Ollie really wants to fool the her he should ask J'onn for a favor even though it's still odd that so few people have picked up on the GA transforming into a black man.

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15 minutes ago, lion10 said:

I really liked how Renee called Felicty "Hossette" and while the writers have disappointed me with their storylines, they're really done a good job with Renee's characterization.

NOOOOOO NOW HOSSETTE IS IN THE REPERTOIRE 

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9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

NOOOOOO NOW HOSSETTE IS IN THE REPERTOIRE 

 

I think it's cute.  I mean, include in my AO3 fanfic level cute.

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4 minutes ago, lion10 said:

I think it's cute.  I mean, include in my AO3 fanfic level cute.

I'm glad you do! I wish it didn't make me want to punch him directly in the throat - calling someone hoss is a pet peeve I haven't ever been able to shake, haha.

Edited by apinknightmare.

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I "liked" the episode for at least what it gave to progressing the plot, along with a bunch of nice moments/scenes. It did feel choppy, but I kind of did like Oliver's rationale for being the GA again (the actual decision is still totally problematic and not telling William is such a set-up for drama, but I really liked the scenes between Diggle and Oliver, so I'll roll with it for now), which seemed to be the whole point of the episode, other then having the reveal/confirmation that James is most likely the big bad now that he apparently has a connection to Oliver (how? I'm going to need more explanation for that because at this point sooooo forced and out of left field) and pushing (in an oddly balanced way, weirdly enough imo) a bunch of other subplots slowly forward.

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Just now, Angel12d said:

Where did Felicity's money come from? Was it from PT? 

No - it was money from angel investors for her and Curtis's company.

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55 minutes ago, Trisha said:

 

I'm thrilled Thea is back and that family moment at the end was so cute, I'm willing to overlook that William is already calling her "Auntie." Oliver making him call John "Mr Diggle" was a nice touch though. And I'm glad he's calling Oliver "Dad" now and they didn't turn it into a big thing. 

1

I would have liked it better if he was Uncle John instead but I get that's not automatically everyone's thing.   I confess I didn't even notice that William was calling Oliver Dad, lol.  

39 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I haven't watched the episode but what is this I'm hearing about Digg's "dream life"?!?! His dream life is erasing his wife/son or daughter and becoming GA?!?! 

To be fair Oliver even brought up how John going through withdrawal might be affecting his mental state.  And again, if even Diggle says being GA wasn't something he every knew he wanted, might mean he wanted it a lot less than he's trying to convince himself of.  

Edited by BkWurm1.

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This season has a problem with the constant start/stop with the storylines. I feel like Cayden James is definitely the big bad and did we ever figure out why they got the T-Spheres? Having him/Siren pop in for an episode then disappear for 1-2 episodes then rinse and repeat. Same with Dragon who we were just introduced to. 

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4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

did we ever figure out why they got the T-Spheres?

Didn't Black Siren steal one from the bunker?

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26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

NOOOOOO NOW HOSSETTE IS IN THE REPERTOIRE 

I feel like I prefer Hossette to Blondie. I don't like Blondie. So if I have to choose, Hossette wins. Haha.

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I'm actually kind of thrilled that Cayden James is all mad at the GA for something that happened to his kid that Oliver doesn't even know about.  Not because it's original, cause it's not, but I think it means that Richard Diaz's storyline (the Dragon) is being given to James only instead of the GA killing his father when Diggle was the GA, it's a son and at this point we don't know why he thinks the GA is to blame or if the GA even is to blame. 

And yes, I'm being SUPER petty that by giving the Diaz storyline to James it means a certain section of fandom are probably having a meltdown but Kirk the Avacodo was enough of a PERSONAL ass to me that I am happy to exact my revenge anywhere I can.  Muwahahahaha!

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Cayden James referenced Thomas Szasz.  It was the perfect reference for the character (he wrote The Myth of Mental Illness) and I can forgive this episode a lot for that.  Also Michael Emerson, who is just the right amount of understated crazy.  As badly as this show casts children, it's generally very good at casting the master villains (season 3 aside).

Diggle, Diggle my friend, Curtis' implant has clearly affected your brain too.  The Dominators' illusion was your perfect life?  There was no Lyla, no Baby Sara (or even JJ) in that illusion.  There were none of the rules that give you clarity as you told your squad a year ago.

I also really like how Oliver and Felicity resolved their conflicts with Diggle and Curtis respectively.  As much as I love her, there was a fair bit of entitlement in Felicity registering the company without asking Curtis first and then naming it also without asking him.  I get that she's being most of the administrative brains of the company but he's the biomedical engineer.

Finally, I think they're doing well with William this season, far better than I expected.  I like that William suggested that they "save Felicity" from the reporter, like father like son, and it was a nice moment at the end of the episode with William having cooked dinner, with Raisa's help.  All nice of that Thea lampshaded "Raisa????"  I wonder if Thea will move in with them now too since she's alone in Laurel's old apartment.  I'm iffy on how much Oliver is prioritizing William, telling Agent Watson that that is a line he won't let her cross and worrying more about William than anything else, but I bet SA is loving it and frankly I think he's earned the right to have a storyline go his way.

But I am so so so so over the MySon storylines on this show.  Oliver, Diggle, Slade, and now Cayden James.  At this point, it's just super sexist.  Quentin and His Many Daughters (Laurel E1, Sara, Thea, Dinah, Laurel E2 and occasionally  Felicity) aren't enough to balance it.

20 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Where did Felicity's money come from? Was it from PT? 

It was from the start-up, she said her "angels" (I thought that was just a theatre term) had donated enough money for the bail.  Hopefully Oliver will be exonerated and they get the money back before the angels figure out what it was used for.

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would have liked it better if he was Uncle John instead but I get that's not automatically everyone's thing.   I confess I didn't even notice that William was calling Oliver Dad, lol. 

I think it's too soon for Uncle John and I like that Oliver is setting boundaries for William.  It would be typical of a new father to let his son call his friends by their first name.  Thea is different, she's a blood relation. so she gets Aunt Thea.

Edited by statsgirl.

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4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't Black Siren steal one from the bunker?

Yeah but did we ever figure out why and what they are doing with it?

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I'm expecting the T sphere to come up later when Cayden James has reprogrammed it for some nefarious scheme of his own.  It seems like everything Black Siren does other than killing people is under James' direction.

I'm really disappointed that Police Lt. Dinah couldn't prove that the cops at the concert weren't real cops. What good is her being on the force then?

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3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yeah but did we ever figure out why and what they are doing with it?

I don't think so? I don't know - you probably pay closer attention to her scenes than I do, haha.

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6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I think it's too soon for Uncle John and I like that Oliver is setting boundaries for William.  It would be typical of a new father to let his son call his friends by their first name.  Thea is different, she's a blood relation. so she gets Aunt Thea.

The way I see it, if Oliver had introduced Diggle as "He's like a brother to me." then calling him Uncle John wouldn't have been any different than introducing William to his Aunt Thea. But then I had the honorary Aunt and Uncle in my life and am someone's honorary Aunt as well. I accept it's a family to family difference.  Neither is wrong or right, but I would have preferred Oliver to acknowledge the more than friends connection with Diggle to his son right away.  

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm expecting the T sphere to come up later when Cayden James has reprogrammed it for some nefarious scheme of his own.  It seems like everything Black Siren does other than killing people is under James' direction.

I'm really disappointed that Police Lt. Dinah couldn't prove that the cops at the concert weren't real cops. What good is her being on the force then?

I think the thing wasn't if Dinah could prove the cops at the concert weren't real cops but that she didn't do it in time before the video went viral and changed public opinion for the referendum.  

Edited by BkWurm1.

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8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would have preferred Oliver to acknowledge the more than friends connection with Diggle to his son right away.  

Isn't Diggle Oliver's only friend?  William must have got how close they are from that.

You're right that it's a family thing though.  I was very surprised as a child that my friend called friends of her parents Aunt and Uncle because in my family, only the elderly were called Aunt and Uncle.

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If FBI lady doesn’t turn out to be a bad guy, I’m going to be so disappointed (again). I get that they need her to be against vigilantism and to go after Oliver, but would some depth be too much to ask for?  She’s so cartoonish, one dimensional, plot necessitate law person. How about having her show some conflicted feelings about going after a guy who really does help the city, but standing firm on her stance that vigilantism is wrong and the collateral damage and lack of oversight is too much? I could even accept her being so blindly married to the law and following the rules if they gave her a partner or someone to bring up opposing viewpoints. 

Also, arresting Oliver in front of his kid at a food drive? That’s just being a jerk. 

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2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Isn't Diggle Oliver's only friend?  William must have got how close they are from that.

 

 

It's all a bit iffy since we don't know how people were introduced to him on the island.  He should have already met everyone associated with the team but I would have otherwise sworn this was the first time he'd met Diggle.  And maybe it was since the island.  

That first episode of this season really dropped the ball on a lot of things.  

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Samanda is either just a really intense FBI lady or she's a bad guy who also has a son who Oliver hurt/killed at some point. 

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Just now, BkWurm1 said:

It's all a bit iffy since we don't know how people were introduced to him on the island.  He should have already met everyone associated with the team but I would have otherwise sworn this was the first time he'd met Diggle.  And maybe it was since the island.  

That first episode of this season really dropped the ball on a lot of things.  

I could buy him not having spoken much with Dig and perhaps not remembering him. His mom had just died, so I don’t imagine he was taking a whole lot in. 

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9 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Samanda is either just a really intense FBI lady or she's a bad guy who also has a son who Oliver hurt/killed at some point

LOLOL

Talk about a show hitting a single note for three seasons.

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5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think the thing wasn't if Dinah could prove the cops at the concert weren't real cops but that she didn't do it in time before the video went viral and changed public opinion for the referendum.  

Yeah, same. I literally yelled at the tv when Felicity found out the cops were fake and that the bomb was fake as well (FELICITY, DON'T TELL THE TEAM TO BEAT UP THE FAKE COPS, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY THE PLAN NOW). It all clicked that it was just to ruin their reputation (in the "Twitter trends things before confirming them" way) for the referendum, which I thought was a cool Big Bad twist (the son twist not so much, but is another topic). 

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Just now, Angel12d said:

Samanda is either just a really intense FBI lady or she's a bad guy who also has a son who Oliver hurt/killed at some point. 

At this point, everyone has a son/father/male relative who Oliver killed. I’m particularly excited for the storyline where Raisa turns on him and reveals that it’s because of the time Oliver killed her brother’s nephew’s son by unknowingly giving him a food he was allergic to when he was eight years old.

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29 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

And yes, I'm being SUPER petty that by giving the Diaz storyline to James it means a certain section of fandom are probably having a meltdown but Kirk the Avacodo was enough of a PERSONAL ass to me that I am happy to exact my revenge anywhere I can.  Muwahahahaha!

I'm so so happy by the idea that Richard Dragon #kidvicious is so far looking like he'll be a useless nobody 2nd rate villian whose not even important enough to be on the Original Green Arrows radar. If it stays that way it could not have happened to a nicer pair of Avacadoes. 

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3 minutes ago, quarks said:

Also Arrow writers: "We know! We'll have Diggle remind us of last year's crossover episodes with the Dominators! And try to argue that a life without his wife and kid is his ideal life!  A life that was so patchy and poorly conceived all five of them broke free in about 24 hours! Yes, that will be convincing!"

I'm glad Oliver didn't agree with him. I mean, he's not going through withdrawal so he has his full mental faculties (I'm hoping) and wasn't likely to agree anyway, but there wasn't a HisSon in that brainscape, so I'm glad we didn't have two kids wished away. Yay!

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25 minutes ago, quarks said:

2. Speaking of which, why didn't any of the Team Arrow guys burst into Billy Joel's suite to warn him that HEY, YOU MIGHT BE BLOWING UP SOON. It's Star City, where things blow up all the time. I think Billy Joel would have believed them.  And then they all could have jumped in to "SING US A SONG, WE'RE A VIGILANTE BAND, SING US A SONG, TONIGHT! CAUSE WE'RE ALL IN THE MOOD FOR SOME ARROWING, AND YOU'VE GOT US FEELING ALL RIGHT!"

How do I get this?  I NEED THIS!

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