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S04.E07: Therefore I Am 2017.11.21

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Barry comes face to face with DeVoe (guest star Neil Sandilands). Devoe's past is revealed through flashbacks. Meanwhile, Iris puts the final touches on the wedding, which is a week away.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Thomas Pound.

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The tension in this episode was off the charts.  So nice to have a villain who isn't a speedster, and whose identity doesn't need to be revealed.  We know who he is, and the scenes with him and Barry were incredible.

The only bad thing is that Wally faced Starro, and we didn't see it.

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Only a moron would break into a house without wearing a mask.  Enter Barry Allen.  It's a good thing Captain Singh is apparently the most forgiving police captain on earth.

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Mac and cheese apparently makes you completely trustworthy and not a villain, good to know.

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That was...boring. While I usually watch shows for the characters, I don't care at all about DeVoe's origin story. I would have been fine with five minutes about it, tops. If the majority of this season is going to be about him, I foresee a lot of fast-forwarding through the DVR.

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I just don't understand why after spending four years trusting in Barry's instincts, that team Flash would suddenly doubt him to the degree that they do in this episode. Granted, later on Barry acted like an idiot by not (at least) wearing a mask when he broke into the house.

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I enjoyed this episode, especially Barrys showdown with DeVoe. The flashbacks were especially nice and made me yearn for Star Labs to actually do something outside of that one room and actually be a company.

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One of my favorite parts was the little confrontation between Thawne/Wells and Devoe at the press conference. Being from the future and all, Thawne's smirk because he knew what was coming, presumably even including Devoe's defeat.

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42 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

I just don't understand why after spending four years trusting in Barry's instincts, that team Flash would suddenly doubt him to the degree that they do in this episode. Granted, later on Barry acted like an idiot by not (at least) wearing a mask when he broke into the house.

I think you just answered your own question.  Team Flash also spent four years dealing with the messes that Barry would create every time he went off half-cocked because of some obsession of his.  Flashpoint was the result of Barry's last obsession, remember?

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I like this adversary.  He is the best one since Thawne/Wells.  I enjoyed their confrontation. And am looking forward to see how much more he has up his sleeve and how he plans to play them and how they plan to counter.

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Really enjoyed the episode.  I think the actor playing Devoe is terrific and I loved his confrontation with Barry at the end.  Definitely a compelling villain.  It's amazing to see Barry be so obsessed about something and actually RIGHT.  

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So what do you suppose are the ingredients in the macaroni of trustworthiness and innocence?

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I LOVED this episode.  The tension was so thick - albeit aided by how stupid Barry was breaking into this guy's house as himself and not as the Flash - AT LEAST do that - the Devoes weren't going to out him as The Flash.  They'd just sound dumb.  But the writers needed a way to make Barry look crazy so no one would believe him - I'm just relieved they didn't drag this out - seeing Barry be right but no one believe him was frustrating, even if he kinda deserves it for all of his previous messups.  And especially given how his actions were threatening his future - what bride wouldn't be like WTF at their hubby to be breaking and entering and sounding kinda nuts and obsessed with folks who appear to be innocent?  It's not like it was the man in yellow again where Barry saw something.  This time he was just going off of instinct - that's not enough, though we all know he was dead on.

Problem is - in all of his excitement, he runs off half cocked to break into their house (I knew there'd be cameras) with no mask on - and he didn't call Cisco or anyone to see what he'd discovered with the Samouroid camera.  Stupid.  Given how connected they all are - no way he would do that.

I really liked DeVoe's origin story - and I even understood his frustration about teaching minds that just weren't trying to receive his knowledge.  I don't think that's a good reason to do whatever he's planning to do, but I found him sympathetic at first - he thinks he's doing good - or will.  And then the particle accelerator - and his little showdown with Wells/Thawne - man I miss that Wells sometimes.  But anyway - DeVoe makes his brain work like a quantam computer using the particle accelerator explosion, but the unforseen side effect (since he wasn't The Thinker yet when he and his wife came up with the plan) was that his Quantam Brain needed energy to work so it was sucking that energy from his body.  Kinda brilliant in a way in terms of why he's degenerating... really really loved that part of the story.  So now he's got nothing to lose and is 100% focused on carrying out his plan before he dies.

I loved this story and thought this villain is the best one they've had since Wells/Thawne.

Also - he's either a total badass or just arrogant that he does't even care that Barry knows he's the bad guy - this whole thing was literally him just toying with Barry frantically running around trying to figure him out.

Edited by phoenics.
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A lot of questioning decisions this episode, but it was actually enjoyable.

 First off, Barry, come on man! I know you didn't know about The Thinker at that point, but wear a mask, man! Also, wear gloves! Also, you're the fastest man alive! You wouldn't be so clumsy in the DeVoe house! 

Now, for Team Flash. I know there's no official proof, and I guess they had every right to question Barry, but....like, he was only obsessed with the idea for a couple of days, and they were all acting like he'd been obsessed for weeks. They also doubted Barry way too easily but then also bought into his theory too easily at the end too. All he had to do, I guess, is say that DeVoe knew who he was. I was really hoping for Barry to have taped his conversation with DeVoe and had that as proof.

Though I will say that Devoe and his wife were fairly convincing. They had many of their bases covered, and it helps that DeVoe basically knew each step Barry would make somehow. I guess it is good that Singh is very forgiving. I mean, I would have done more than suspend Barry after causing so much trouble. 

As for the origin episode here, it was good but this is all I need to know. They can move on and have him as a formidable foe. He is definitely the best villain since Eobard Thawne.

Speaking of Thawne, I loved seeing the return of Harrison Wells. I thought Tom Cavanagh finally slipped back into a familiar role for the first time this season. He's seemed to struggle with Harry all season so far, so seeing him play Eobard as Harrison for the first time since early season 2 was awesome. 

Hey, Wally! You've literally only been gone for, like, three episodes. I'd laugh if he's just now back for good, because that was the shortest finding yourself trip ever. 

Also, is it sad that I didn't realize Ralph wasn't in the episode until the stupid Stretched extra scene during commercials? Even with Barry mentioning Ralph by name at the very beginning, I simply didn't process it.

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31 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

that was the shortest finding yourself trip ever.

 

Ha. To be fair, it's almost time for his sister's wedding.

Edited by Whodunnit.
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Tonight in "Everyone's kind of been hit with the stupid stick..."

On one hand, Barry definitely wins the evening in pure "head-smacking" stupidity, by managing to be right but also managing to make himself look like an idiot by approaching this the worst way possible.  Almost every move he did to night was so stupid that it really wasn't that impressive that DeVoe easily played him like he did.  Being obviously hostile to them out in the open, acting like a maniac in front of his team, and, of course, breaking into their house with no fucking mask?  Dammit, Barry!  I love you (or, really, Grant Gustin), but you can be such a moron at times.

On the other hand, despite his stupidity, I really find it head-scratching that everyone just automatically assumed he was obsessive and were dismissing him left and right.  After everything they've been through, is it that hard to believe that someone who seems nice on the surface actually is a psycho and a half.  I get being cautious and I'm all for them telling Barry to quit doing stupid shit, but I wanted at least one of them to say "I believe you, but lets play this safe," instead of all "You're crazy, Barry!  He like macaroni!"  Disappointed in all of you, Team Flash!

That said, I actually enjoyed the flashback/origin story of DeVoe and his wife.  The idea of a married couple both being the main villains is interesting and I like that both have their strengths (DeVoe was always intelligent even before his change, while his wife is great at building stuff.)  Plus, I do like that they seem to truly love one another, which is kind of sweet despite them both being pretty twisted.  Plus, both Neil Sandilands and Kim Engelbrecht are doing good jobs with these roles. I'm cautiously optimistic that they got some good seasonal baddies compared, compared to Zoom and Salvatar.

Also liked briefly seeing Eobard as Harrison Wells again.  As much as I love Harry, there is some nostalgia seeing Tom Cavanagh doing his "Normal guy up front, but clearly hiding something way, way below the surface" performance again. 

Always nice seeing Singh even when he's putting up with Barry's bullshit.

Man, Wally's trip of self-discovery sure didn't take long!

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I posted this in the relationships thread, but I'm going to go ahead and put it in here too.

The show continues to avoid every SINGLE opportunity to show Barry and Iris being intimate. 

I'm now officially convinced they're doing this on purpose. Someone behind the scenes doesn't want to show them in bed together. They get nothing but dry, closed lipped kisses. They never make out, we never see them in bed, we get no intimate couple moments, to say nothing of them never having had a sex scene.

This is now a conspiracy in my opinion. If there's nothing on the episode after they're married (and I bet there won't be), this is absolutely intentional.

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Good episode! Initial thoughts:

- I know S1 Wells is a villain, but he brings such a tension to the scenes he's in, it was nice to see him. The whole s1 flashback was nice to see. 

-This episode gave lots more insight to Devoe and his wife. I liked it a lot. And can I just say that I like that we have a female villain who is different from the usual Arrowverse 'must act seductive if I'm a female villain' mold? I get that that's very comic-booky or whatever, but it's pretty refreshing to see something different. And the fact that their love for each other seems genuine is also pretty refreshing for villain couples (even though I think some cracks are starting to show)

-Barry and Iris + cute little exchanges is what I love to see. So, so, cute.

- Like some others here I wasn't sure why the team (including Iris) was so sure Barry couldn't be right (to their credit, they did help out at first). I still liked Barry and Iris' talks, though (even if I was like: but Barry is right. Iris!!!). I love that intimate chemistry when they have those types of talks, especially the one in their home.

-I thought the stretched scene was cute. 

-Good to see Wally back

-Good to see Singh

-Good to see more police work/CCPD in general

Edited by RedVitC.
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1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Tonight in "Everyone's kind of been hit with the stupid stick..."

Also, all this angst about how they're going to defeat the guy with the superbrain. Uh, he's in a wheelchair and you have two speedsters! (Oh, hey Wally. Were you even gone? He's like one of those kids who runs away then gets to the corner of their street, thinks "I'm hungry" and goes home for a peanut butter sandwich.) Couldn't they just superspeed up to him, grab him, and superspeed him back to the prison at wherever it is they keep all the metas? The whole thing would take seconds.

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I posted this in the relationships thread, but I'm going to go ahead and put it in here too.

The show continues to avoid every SINGLE opportunity to show Barry and Iris being intimate. 

I'm now officially convinced they're doing this on purpose. Someone behind the scenes doesn't want to show them in bed together. They get nothing but dry, closed lipped kisses. They never make out, we never see them in bed, we get no intimate couple moments, to say nothing of them never having had a sex scene.

This is now a conspiracy in my opinion. If there's nothing on the episode after they're married (and I bet there won't be), this is absolutely intentional.

I'm actually totally fine with this. I don't need a Barry/Iris sex scene. I don't watch this show for romance (which we get a lot of) or sex.

If there's ever another spin-off of this neverending universe, I hope it's a show about Harry and Cisco. I never tire of their scenes.

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Barry: He's up to something.

Team Flash: We don't have proof.

Barry: He's up to something.

DeVoe: Look, I'm just a college professor in a wheelchair. Who am I going to hurt?

Barry: He's up to something.

Singh: Goddammit, Barry. I am grateful you're unglued, since I only get three minutes total every two months. You're suspended, by the way.

Barry: He's up to something. And I don't want him to wreck things when I'm so close to marrying my childhood love.

Iris: I love you, Barry, but you're being a putz.

Barry: But . . . he's up to something!

DeVoe: I am up to something. And I know your secrets. Game on, little brain. Game the fuck on.

Wally: Hey, I'm back from soul-searching! Can I be in this giant crossover? Pllllleeeeeeeaaaasssee???

I did like DeVoe's origin. Of course the explosion played a part. And that he wore his "thinking cap" at that moment. Now that we got Thinker and (a weak-ass version of) Shade, what other Golden Age bad guys will be coming out the woodwork?

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2 hours ago, phoenics said:

I really liked DeVoe's origin story - and I even understood his frustration about teaching minds that just weren't trying to receive his knowledge.  I don't think that's a good reason to do whatever he's planning to do, but I found him sympathetic at first - he thinks he's doing good - or will.  And then the particle accelerator - and his little showdown with Wells/Thawne - man I miss that Wells sometimes.  But anyway - DeVoe makes his brain work like a quantam computer using the particle accelerator explosion, but the unforseen side effect (since he wasn't The Thinker yet when he and his wife came up with the plan) was that his Quantam Brain needed energy to work so it was sucking that energy from his body.  Kinda brilliant in a way in terms of why he's degenerating... really really loved that part of the story.  So now he's got nothing to lose and is 100% focused on carrying out his plan before he dies.

I loved this story and thought this villain is the best one they've had since Wells/Thawne.

Also - he's either a total badass or just arrogant that he does't even care that Barry knows he's the bad guy - this whole thing was literally him just toying with Barry frantically running around trying to figure him out.

The interesting thing for me is: Are we sure that the DeVoes are really villains?  They haven't really directly harmed anyone (The Samuaroid mostly caused property damage even if it roughed Wally up a little.  Some of the people who got power from the bus "accident" have dome some evil things, but that was by their own choice.  Perhaps now that DeVoe is dying he's decided to enact his plan to... keep Azathoth, the Seething Nuclear Chaos at the center of reality from expanding outward and devouring the whole of the multiverse and everyone in it.

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“If the Council is right, that means DeVoe arranged for me to come out of the speed force exactly where he wanted” — aaarrghh! No it doesn’t!! What information are they using to reach these conclusions?? It definitely not anything they’ve shared with the audience. Sorry I keep harping on this, but the show keeps going from A to C, and I need that in between step.

Aww, flashback to the pilot! Eobard/Wells recognized DeVoe. Nice.

Barry! If you know your enemy is smart, you have to be smarter! The best moment was of course when he just confronted DeVoe directly.

Captain Singh! I’m always glad when he can make an appearance.

On 11/21/2017 at 9:02 PM, cambridgeguy said:

Only a moron would break into a house without wearing a mask.  Enter Barry Allen.  It's a good thing Captain Singh is apparently the most forgiving police captain on earth.

I'm telling y'all -- he HAS to know!

So DeVoe had a plan to “enlighten the world” before the dark matter explosion. And Marlize (yay! a name!) and Clifford are a supervillain power couple? I dig it. I really like that we got backstory for the big bad sooner rather than later. And in general that the villain has a face and personality, and isn’t just a psycho in a mask. Big improvement from previous villains — don’t mess this up, show.

Barry: “DeVoe knows I’m the Flash”
Everyone: “Oh well I guess you were right about everything!!”
I know there were other things that the Thinker said that vindicate Barry (that he didn’t mention), but COME ON Team Flash. Y’all know full well knowledge of the “secret” identity proves NOTHING when half the world knows. I have the List!

I was so happy to see Wally again! I missed you (…but not that relaxed hair)!

Heh - even DeVoe ‘ships WestAllen. 😘
Speaking of, there were at least 7 references to them getting married in a week. It seemed a little overkill, even if they need to inform the audience.

 

On 11/21/2017 at 10:41 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Also, is it sad that I didn't realize Ralph wasn't in the episode until the stupid Stretched extra scene during commercials? Even with Barry mentioning Ralph by name at the very beginning, I simply didn't process it.

Ralph isn't needed at all. He brings nothing to the show.

Edited by Trini. Reason: I shouldn't be typing in the am
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Barry dude, if you're going to break into someone's house, at least wear a mask or something. 

I actually surprisingly found the relationship between DaVoe and his wife, kind of sweet.  It seems like they genuinely care for each other (despite both being rather messed up in the head).

I'm mixed on the "Team Flash doesn't believe Barry" thing.  One the one hand, perhaps the show went a bit too far with it.  But on the other hand, Barry does have a tendency to go off half-cocked when he gets obsessed with something, and bad things tend to happen as a result.  So I get the IDEA behind it at least.

It was cool seeing Wells-Thawne cameo again, and his meeting with DaVoe was delightful.

Did they seriously just say that Wally took on Starro by himself, offscreen?

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Thoughts before reading the thread.  

First pet peeve. Why do they keep saying Barry was lost in time?  He wasn't.  He was trapped in the speed force.  Not lost in time.  

Second pet peeve.  Why would the team think Barry is nuts with his suspicions when Devoe is being so instantly touchy about even being questioned?  Who files a complaint after two very short conversations?  It would have made sense after Barry broke into the house,  (and why would Devoe think/know Barry is too dumb to wear a mask?) but before should have been ringing everyone's alarm bells.  I hate when characters go plot stupid.

Wells especially should be backing up Barry.  It was his work that picked Devoe in the first place.  Over 90 percent.  Why would he suddenly be so quick to question his own findings?  And yeah, the wife being all Stepford should be ringing all sorts of alarms rather than ignored.  

Barry is dumb though.  Something makes a noise and he concentrates on a freaking camera?  

Third pet peeve.  If Devoe was this genius that could solve everything, how come none of his discoveries or revelations went public?  His original goals were for the good of the world.  Why would he horde answers? 

But I do enjoy him as a villain more than what we had in seasons 2 and 3

Pet Peeve number four.  How can they just have Wally casually mention battling an alien starfish and there be no follow up?

Pet Peeve five.  Why does the wife slick back her hair when she is in EVOL mode?  I don't understand the fashion choice.

So I assume his big plan is to take over Barry's body since his body can tap the power of the speed force.  

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2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, is it sad that I didn't realize Ralph wasn't in the episode until the stupid Stretched extra scene during commercials? Even with Barry mentioning Ralph by name at the very beginning, I simply didn't process it.

It seems that for until they find a good story for him,that Ralph is relegated to those product placement bits..i'm sure he'll be taking part in the crossover next week

DeVoe/Thinker's origin kind of reminded of Doctor Octopus's from Spider-Man 2

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Barry was the real criminal this episode. B&E, not following the restraining order, stealing a mug, and thinking he has spidey senses.

Barry got slapped so hard, Joe felt it.

Edited by mxc90.
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2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I posted this in the relationships thread, but I'm going to go ahead and put it in here too.

The show continues to avoid every SINGLE opportunity to show Barry and Iris being intimate. 

I'm now officially convinced they're doing this on purpose. Someone behind the scenes doesn't want to show them in bed together. They get nothing but dry, closed lipped kisses. They never make out, we never see them in bed, we get no intimate couple moments, to say nothing of them never having had a sex scene.

This is now a conspiracy in my opinion. If there's nothing on the episode after they're married (and I bet there won't be), this is absolutely intentional.

Not dismissing the fact that the Flash seems to avoid doing the sexy scenes but in this particular case, I would have found such a scene really out of place given the tone of the rest of the episode. Where would you have had them put it?   

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43 minutes ago, johntfs said:

The interesting thing for me is: Are we sure that the DeVoes are really villains? 

I was coming here to post the same thing. The DeVoes have probably advanced science several decades, it would be funny if they were planning to donate there knowledge to S.T.A.R. Labs to help fight crime and predict future crises. If not, they want to put DeVoe's brain in Barry's body.

Barry should have placed DeVoe's cup in a plastic bag. It would have been funny if Cisco vibed the cup and saw something from Barry's life.

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5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Pet Peeve five.  Why does the wife slick back her hair when she is in EVOL mode?  I don't understand the fashion choice.

If you're going to take the trouble to put on the white coat of EVIL then you might as well do your hair too.

DeVoe knows Barry can't be in jail for the big crossover next week but since he does have many, many witnesses to the end of their last conversation he can report him for breaking the restraining order, right?  At the end of season 1 during the speed force montage there was a shot of Barry in prison so maybe that will happen this season.

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I enjoyed this ep and really liked the DeVoe back story. 

My husband upon watching the final scene with Mr and Mrs DeVoe:

Awww they ship Barry and Iris. They're going to sit back and watch the crossover wedding before they mess with them. 

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Great episode, one of the best of the series, Devote might even rival reverse flash as the best villain. I like devoe and his wife, their marriage makes them more interesting and humanizes them.

 

Is it me or are the writers deliberately drawing a parallel between westallen and devoe/wife? I think this might be important to the story moving forward.

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49 minutes ago, Grace19 said:

Great episode, one of the best of the series, Devote might even rival reverse flash as the best villain. I like devoe and his wife, their marriage makes them more interesting and humanizes them.

If Team Flash could learn Devoe's backstory and situation, there's a decent chance they could recruit his wife to help them build the neural inhibitor that Savitar mentioned last season.  Devoe's basic problem is that his brain/mind is so overclocked that it's damaging/killing his body.  The neural inhibitor could slow down his mind, stop the damage an greatly extend Devoe's time with the woman who dearly loves him.  Heck, Team Flash knows Team Time Bandits.  It's possible they could go back in time, swipe some water from the League of Assassins' Lazarus Pit and heal the damage to Devoe's body as well.  Maybe the best way to "fight" Devoe is to save him and heal him.

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When Barry asked Devoe how he knew his secret identity, I really wish Devoe would have responded "Barry, 1,273 people know you're secret identity.  And those are only the ones you've TOLD."

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Devoe rattling off a list of all the people who know Barry's identity would have been hysterical. He probably would order them alphabetically, or maybe chronologically.

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11 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

So what do you suppose are the ingredients in the macaroni of trustworthiness and innocence?

Clearly, it's bacon. And gruyere cheese.

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1 hour ago, johntfs said:

If Team Flash could learn Devoe's backstory and situation, there's a decent chance they could recruit his wife to help them build the neural inhibitor that Savitar mentioned last season.  Devoe's basic problem is that his brain/mind is so overclocked that it's damaging/killing his body.  The neural inhibitor could slow down his mind, stop the damage an greatly extend Devoe's time with the woman who dearly loves him.  Heck, Team Flash knows Team Time Bandits.  It's possible they could go back in time, swipe some water from the League of Assassins' Lazarus Pit and heal the damage to Devoe's body as well.  Maybe the best way to "fight" Devoe is to save him and heal him.

The funny thing is before the wife built him his flying chair (that's still hilarious) Devoe sounded like he'd be up for it, but now that his plan is in motion, I'm sure he would no longer be willing to trade his intellect for more time, not when I'm sure he thinks he's figured out a way to keep the brain power and either regenerate his body or swap it for a different one.  

They tossed out scientific gobbledegook that basically said his brain was hogging all the power his body could generate so obviously his solution is to find someone who has a body that can generate enough power to sustain his mind and I'm guessing Barry is it.  So at this point I'm guessing it's too late for Devoe to settle for less so Star Lab's help isn't likely to be accepted.  And the neural inhibitor (which, dude, I'd get working on that right now and not wait around to find out why) will end up being a weapon to turn off his brain power so they have a shot of outsmarting him. 

Or they could just kidnap him and stick him in the pipeline.  Problem solved.    Going to need to know why that's not an option being considered.  I mean, at worst, I'm sure Lyla could be talked into tossing him into a shipping container while Star Labs is searched once he goes missing.  

Edited by BkWurm1.
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Re: Barry wearing a mask during his B&E

Why, when Barry is alone, is he not in Flash mode? There was no real need for Barry to be searching the DeVoe house in real time. (Except for the plot purpose of getting a picture of him.) He cleaned the house up in a zip. I wondered the same thing when Iris walked in on him at the police station. Why was he not doing his research in Flash mode? As soon as he heard the handle click, he covered the board, why wasn't he already zooming through his evidence?

Yes, it using massive amounts of energy (a fact they mostly ignore), but it would have been the safest way to search the house. Would the DeVoes have reported a Flash break-in? Would they have a picture of him--maybe if he remained in one place long enough.  What could Singh have done about that? Put out a BOLO on The Flash? It might have actually helped convince Singh that the DeVoes were worth investigating.

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1 hour ago, KirkB said:

Devoe rattling off a list of all the people who know Barry's identity would have been hysterical. He probably would order them alphabetically, or maybe chronologically.

Heheh.  It would have been hysterical but I think you'd need at least a two-parter to have Devoe list every single person who knows Barry's secret identity.

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The only reason team Flash didn't immediately believe in Barry is because the show needed to DeVoe to gaslight him to show us how smart he is.  But they could have still done that and still have the team behind him and showing them starting to become skeptical when they couldn't find anything conclusive while Barry still staunchly believed.

As much as I liked this episode, I kinda wish that we already didn't know his identity and we could have been gaslighted too until the reveal in the end.  Given the mundane portrait they painted of DeVoe and Mrs. DeVoe there was a plausible argument for reasonable doubt there. I also think it was a huge missed opportunity for Barry not to point out the similarities to Thawne/Wells when they voiced their doubt about DeVoe.  A seemingly benevolent man in a wheelchair had fooled them all before. 

One thing jerked me out of the episode a bit, but since when does a University use a bell system to announce the end of class?  High school, yes.  But college?

Also I love how to signal how brainy and refined the DeVoe's are, they always had classical music playing on in the background and a cozy, perfect fire always in the hearth.  Probably makes that Mac & Cheese taste so much better.

Edited by DearEvette.
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Sorry if this has been mentioned, but this episode cemented my belief that DeVoe's master plan involves switching his mind into Barry's body. As the episode showed, before his body started to degrade, DeVoe had altruistic, lofty goals. I can easily see him using utilitarianism to rationalize his decision: taking Barry's life to save his own would have a net benefit for society. They also hammered home the point that both DeVoe and Barry being hit by lightning with the incident affecting one's mind and the other's body. De'Voe's body is failing because it can't handle the energy DeVoe's mind is siphoning. Barry's body is an infinite energy source.  

Edited by Inquiry.
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On 11/22/2017 at 8:56 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Or they could just kidnap him and stick him in the pipeline.  Problem solved.    Going to need to know why that's not an option being considered.  I mean, at worst, I'm sure Lyla could be talked into tossing him into a shipping container while Star Labs is searched once he goes missing. 

Actually, the problem is far from solved.  Devoe isn't really a meta.  Over on Legends of Tomorrow, Ray Palmer, The Atom, has built a shrink ray gun.  If he fires it at a normal-sized human, he can shrink them down to a few inches in height.  When that happens, the shrunk people don't suddenly become metas with the power of Shrinking.  They're still normal people under the effects of a metahuman/superscience power.  That's what Devoe still is - a normal human permanently under the effect of a metahuman power.

Basically what happened during the particle accelerator explosion was that the dark matter gave Devoe's "Thinking Cap" the metahuman power.  In this case it was the power to vastly and permanently increase the intellect of a human.  The Cap "used" that "ability" on Devoe, turning him into The Thinker.  However, it did nothing to alter his DNA or otherwise turn him into a true metahuman - which is why Devoe is dying.  He's under an effect that his normal human body can't handle.

When Barry got his powers, his DNA  and body was subtly altered so that Barry could handle his superspeed.  He constantly regenerates.  His perception and brain's processing ability matches his superspeed so he doesn't smash into obstacles because everything's a blur because he's going so damned fast.  If someone took Barry's superspeed and imbued it into a normal person, they'd be in a world of hurt.  They wouldn't be able to control it or turn it off.  They couldn't see or otherwise process information while the speed was active.  Oh, they'd also quickly burn through their fat reserves and die of starvation or rapidly age to death because their superfast metabolism was impossible for their human bodies to tolerate.

So, even if they did throw Devoe into the Pipeline (and he's likely already foreseen that possibility and planned accordingly) it wouldn't stop him.  Neither would Cisco's power cuffs because Devoe doesn't really have any powers as a metahuman.  It would be a bit like trying to treat somebody subjected to Killer Frost's ice power who suddenly had toes black with frostbite by putting power cuffs on them.  It won't work because they don't actually have ice powers.  They were just subjected to ice powers.  They're still going to lose those toes.  Cliffard Devoe is still going to have an overclocked mind even while wearing power-dampening cuffs.

Edited by johntfs.
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I really like the DeVoe's as antagonists, they're really different than the bad guys the Flash has fought in the past, and its a welcome change. They're smart and classy with classical music and multiple degrees and a constant fireplace roaring at home and mood lighting at their evil lair. Having a bad guy who can out think the gang, and has manipulated it so that any attempt to defeat will make them look crazy, is an interesting idea for the season. Plus, the DeVoe's are basically #relationshipgoals and I love it. They seem to be a truly supportive and loving couple, in good and in bad. It might not last, but they seem to be an awesome evil couple right now. Grated, I have no idea what their evil plan really is right now (how evil is it really? We dont know), but I like the parallel between Iris and Barry they seem to be drawing. Guy was given powers due to particle accelerator, and his gf/wife is the boss who supports them. 

I think I would love DeVoe if we had no other moment than him laughing at Barry's terribly kept secret. 

I was also nice to see the Captain again, and to see original Fake Wells back in his glory days. His little conversation with DeVoe was just delightful, as was his little smirk. You know he was trying his best not to laugh at what was about to happen to the guy. 

Plus, they ship WestAllan :) Enjoy the crossover guys. 

Hi Wally! Its been a whole five minutes, but good to see you. 

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I was also nice to see the Captain again, and to see original Fake Wells back in his glory days. His little conversation with DeVoe was just delightful, as was his little smirk. You know he was trying his best not to laugh at what was about to happen to the guy. 

Wells/Thawne sometimes tries to be a decent person as much as his nature and plans will let him, but he really is just an evil, horrible guy.  He knows how the Devoes' story begins, proceeds (including the anguish they both suffer as Devoe's abilities leave him crippled and dying) and ends and he thinks it's funny.  While Devoe says he knows about Thawne, Zoom and Savitar, I have to wonder how much he really knows about Thawne.

Edited by johntfs.
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Well, I guess I’ll be the lone dissenter and say I don’t give any fucks about Devoe or his wife or their back story. And I thought he had ALS and him being struck by dark matter extended his life, but then his brain power or whatever was draining his body? I wasn’t really paying attention. 

And da fuck? Even after everyone believed Barry about Thinker, they didn’t sweep the lab for bugs? Because they’re clearly still under surveillance. And that last scene with exposing his brain freaked and grossed me out.

And the show can just STAHP with those stupid Microsoft Surface commercials because twice I’ve been fooled into thinking it was the episode.😒😒😒😒😒

Edited by GHScorpiosRule.
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About the theory that Thinker is going body/brain swap with Barry - I don't think that's how his arc is going to play out. I'm not sure what he wants Barry/the Flash for, but if that's really what Thinker wanted, I don't think he'd waste time playing mind games while his body is quickly deteriorating. Also, Thinker/Mechanic's plans seem to have a wider scope than just helping themselves.

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One interesting thing to consider is that after his brain was super-charged and Devoe basically gained the super-power, Omniscience, he and his wife did... not that much of note.  DeVoe was the smartest guy on the planet at that point.  Why not play the market and become a billionaire or usurp control of a whole country.  Or be the secret master of the entire damn world.  Aside from solving various problems, the two of them pretty lived their lives as usual.  Teaching classes, buy groceries and otherwise going on with their lives as they had before.

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Even after everyone believed Barry about Thinker, they didn’t sweep the lab for bugs?

Remember, this is a building where the doors aren't locked and there are apparently no functional security cameras nor alarms.  You'd think cop Joe would have something to say about this.

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8 hours ago, johntfs said:

 

One interesting thing to consider is that after his brain was super-charged and Devoe basically gained the super-power, Omniscience, he and his wife did... not that much of note.  DeVoe was the smartest guy on the planet at that point.  Why not play the market and become a billionaire or usurp control of a whole country.  Or be the secret master of the entire damn world.  Aside from solving various problems, the two of them pretty lived their lives as usual.  Teaching classes, buy groceries and otherwise going on with their lives as they had before.

 

They have an entire secret lair, a flying brain interface chair that shoots lasers, a samurai themed android... Unless CCU has an otherworldly tenure program, they aren’t making all that on two professorship salaries.  They must have a nearly infinite source of income from somewhere- it doesn’t particularly bother me that the show hasn’t explained where they get their money.

As for the mild-mannered front, maybe it’s all part of their plan- or maybe gaslighting Barry is just for fun. Or, it’s possible that is how they honestly want to live. Not every super-villain should need to rule the world- frankly, I don’t believe the smartest man on the planet would even want to. In any case, I don’t think we’ll know until we get a better idea of what DeVoe’s endgame actually will be.

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