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S08.E03: God Bless Her Rotting Soul 2017.11.19

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A violent meth dealer threatens the Gallaghers, forcing Ian, Carl, Lip and Debbie to find a way to pay him off without involving Fiona. Fiona battles it out with a vindictive tenant. Lip cares for a down-and-out Professor Youens. Frank - miraculously - attains something resembling sainthood.

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I'm glad that Neil dumped Debbie too. The major down side is that I suspect the PT girl who took Debbie's place doesn't like Neil either so he's just in the same situation with a different girl.

Why on earth would Frank say he's going to bury that dead squirrel tomorrow? If you're going to bring home roadkill, no time like the present to bury it.

Ha, I was wondering how long it would take for Fiona to go all Southie on Vanessa's bitch of a girlfriend.

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Well that was a quick and easy way to drop Neal a character who was always just a plot point anyway with no disernable characteristics except being disabled and ignored by Debbie.  Even the breakup took all of a minute and I doubt Debbie really cared except she lost free medical and babysitting.

i think the most interesting storyline was with Lip and his quest to get his old college professor help.  It was actually interesting to see Lip help someone for a change.

And yes It was fun watching Fiona go ghetto on the blonde.  

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Maybe because I've watched too much telly, but I now think any lady loving Fiona does will be with the blonde instead of the hinted at brunette. 

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Did I miss why Carl is no longer at military school?  I know he came home for the Summer but Liam is back in school, shouldn't Carl be as well?

I wish the new Frank would result in less Frank.  

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3 hours ago, Gulftastic said:

Maybe because I've watched too much telly, but I now think any lady loving Fiona does will be with the blonde instead of the hinted at brunette. 

Yes, and I thought the scene where she went face to face with the blond was going to end with a kiss.

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where she went face to face with the blond was going to end with a kiss.

Ha! Me too!  Was sure it was gonna be a sit-com like "Are you as turned on as I am?"

So, Frank now fancies himself as St. Francis? Took me a minute to realize what he was talking about when he said about the service dog, "But Im his patron."

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Fiona is getting her strength back and the apt building has done a lot to up her confidence in herself. I loved her not backing down with the nonpayers. What happened to the laundromat and Patsy's Pie place? Is Fiona foregoing everything else thinking that the tenants and rent will support her? 

I think Lip has done a lot of personal growth during his sobriety. I loved that he took the "rehab" to the professor. I think he'd be less disappointed in the long run if he had chosen to rebuild the motorcycle instead. I doubt his instructor is going to have a turn around and it seems likely that after 5 DUI's he is going to do some jail time. 

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Kevin and Vee really save this show a lot of the time. Finding out Kevin was from some inbred Kentucky clan was hysterical. But overall this was one of the better episodes of Shameless. The grave yard scenes were the sort of dark humor that made it feel old-school Shameless. And I don't blame Fiona for gloating and making her siblings tell her she was right. Plus I like how she went toe to toe with that bitch upstairs. 

Still not interested in the Frank nonsense, though, and I'm not really interested in Lip's college professor either. Can't even remember his name. 

I guess Svetlana is sticking around. She can be funny sometimes, but after what she did to them I just hope they don't regret bailing her out.

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What happened to the laundromat and Patsy's Pie place? 

Well she still works at Patsys because we saw her there, but I don't know what happened to the laundromat. Although I'm guessing the laundromat isn't a place she has to be 24/7. She would have to open it, and close it, and stock the laundry soap vending machines, and collect the coins, but that could be a quick stop once in the morning and again at night. Isn't it right across the street from Patsys? She could probably get someone from the diner to do that for her in a pinch.

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20 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Fiona is getting her strength back and the apt building has done a lot to up her confidence in herself. I loved her not backing down with the nonpayers. What happened to the laundromat and Patsy's Pie place? Is Fiona foregoing everything else thinking that the tenants and rent will support her? 

I think Lip has done a lot of personal growth during his sobriety. I loved that he took the "rehab" to the professor. I think he'd be less disappointed in the long run if he had chosen to rebuild the motorcycle instead. I doubt his instructor is going to have a turn around and it seems likely that after 5 DUI's he is going to do some jail time. 

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Preview of next episode indicates her ex-husband-to-be shows up. Can't remember his name, but he was the addict who owned Patsy's Pies.

Edited by preeya.
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Didn’t Fiona sell The laundrymat and make a tidy profit which is how she was able to buy the apartment.  After promising the old lady she wouldn’t throw her out she got a great offer to flip the place and decided it was too good to pass up.  Fiona still works at Patsys but as Mabager she doesn’t really need to be there 24/7.  She probably sets her own shift and then goes to the apartment and visa versa.

 I am liking Frank....sorry Francis this season.  He is literally trying to relive his teen years and trying to be a better person but being a narcissist he is often fumbling into doing the right thing.

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Fiona still manages Patsy's, which apparently operates as a halfway house for characters at loose ends. She sold the laundromat last season.

Vee has really become the emotional core of the show. The dynamic push and pull of her relationship with Lana, who is becoming quite open with her emotions, and her unfailing support of Kevin is/was wonderful. Shanola is just fantastic.

Speaking of great actors, I don't know how Steve Howey managed to keep a straight face while feeling up Emmy Rossum. I've missed the three of them as a unit, I'm glad this season has brought them back together.

This show continues to suffer tremendously by only seriously investing in Fiona and Lip's inner lives. Ian, Liam, Carl & Debbie have complex individual character arcs and richly varied perspectives that deserve as much care & airtime as their older siblings.

This episode had so many callbacks. The Gallaghers striding down a hallway to pay off their outstanding debt, the Gallaghers banding together as a family to dig up a relative's corpse, Carl finding the quickest, and most destructive way to solve the family's problems, Debbie being unlucky in love, Ian wanting to respect Monica's memory, Lip being Youens de-facto AA sponsor, Frank playing with wildlife, etc.

I howled at Frank telling the kids he wanted to be referred to as Francis instead of Frank, 'because he no longer resonated with a hard K.'

Edited by Dee.
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Preview of next episode indicates her ex-husband-to-be shows up. Can't remember his name, but he was the addict who owned Patsy's Pies.

Not her ex-husband. Sean was her boyfriend but she literally ditched him at the altar when she found out he was still using. Also, he was not the owner of Patsy's. He was the manager. Margo (Sharon Lawrence) is the owner. 

Chaos Theory I don't remember Fiona selling the laundromat. The fact that she owned a business is how she was able to get the bank loan to buy the apartment building. 

Edited by iMonrey.
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This season is so much better than the past few, I don't mind much of the silliness (digging up Monica and no one sees )

Kevin is from an 'uncontacted tribe' in Kentucky? Right.  The Amazon, maybe. Still funny though. How will they take Kevin being part of an interracial couple? I see snobbish, Hollywood written hillbilly jokes in their future.

Frank has managed to stay sober and a relatively good human for three whole episodes. I think he'll last another two before imploding.

I guess I always felt Shameless was Fiona centered because she had to be parent, guardian, and the responsible adult for the family, so I understand the show concentrating on her. But I don't understand why Lip continues to be such a large part of the series. Is the actor a fan favorite? I do like his storyline, but Carl needs more than losing a hot tub as his important moment.

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I love love Lip and am more than happy that he is a bigger part of the show. His character has dimension and I think Carl does not. I have never cared for his character since he has always sort of just been there like without any thought himself or reflection about who he is and what he should do. I guess I just am not a fan of a drug dealing wanna be which is pretty much what he was until he went to military school. I dont like Ians character because of the wishy washy behavior they introduced when they decided to make him seem like his mother. I liked him until then but I have a hard time liking him when he seemed not to care about anyone only used people- I found that hard to like. I suspect they are going to go in that direction with Debs too and that to me is more acceptable but I feel they ruined Ians character with that choice of direction. I also feel that Lip has shown that he can take care of the family without Fiona as he did while she was gone in jail.

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We're three episodes in and no major chaos yet -- in fact, everyone seems on track toward normalcy. 

So what's it gonna be? A death ?he return of Stimmy/Karen/Sheila/Mandy/Mickey? I'd have added Monica, but ... 

I have enjoyed the first three episodes very much, but there is a shoe out there that's gotta drop because so far we've been hovering. 

For the record, I'm betting on a death. Maybe Debbie. Maybe Carl. Something big enough to throw both Lip an Frank off the wagon, Ian off his meds and Fiona back into Tinder-land. 

I hope not -- I like that everyone is moving and working towards being happy in life. But this is serial fiction, and there's gotta be a plot point coming. We're a third of the way through the season. 

Edited by whiporee.
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17 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not her ex-husband. Sean was her boyfriend but she literally ditched him at the altar when she found out he was still using. Also, he was not the owner of Patsy's. He was the manager. Margo (Sharon Lawrence) is the owner. 

Chaos Theory I don't remember Fiona selling the laundromat. The fact that she owned a business is how she was able to get the bank loan to buy the apartment building. 

Remember she put the old lady in the nursing home last season? Although in fairness to Fiona, the lady (was it Etta? I can't remember) probably should not have been living alone. She was eating cat food until Fiona would come along and take it away.

Fiona didn't technically sell the laundromat. She sold the lease to Sharon Lawrence who then bought the building and tore it down. The laundromat just basically ceased to exist. When Fiona went to a party for the demolition Sharon Lawrence's assistant introduced her to a friend of his and said Fiona made a 100% profit on her investment in a matter of weeks ($80K vs. $160K). The friend then asked Fiona if she'd like to buy his apartment building which she did purchase. Not sure how much she financed and what she put down but she also bought a car. She does work at Patsy's but it seems like Veronica is managing it or was until they got their bar back. Fiona might have just paid Vee cash in order to take over her job for awhile.

 

I thought Fiona missed the mark with her lecture. Yes, she was right and it was a stupid thing to do. But 1. she's made some pretty reckless choices herself, and 2. more importantly, there was a really important factor that she totally missed. What if Meth Head and his friends hadn't given Carl and Ian a fairly mild warning? What if they had gone straight to Fiona? Or Liam? Or burned down the house with everyone in it? Debbie, Lip, Carl, Ian, and Frank made a really dangerous decision that could have had tragic consequences not just for themselves, but for their family members who had nothing to do with that decision. THAT is what Fiona should have harped on. All of the Gallaghers are at a spot in their lives where they can actually improve their situation and making the decision to sell meth Monica somehow procured for a quick  buck was incredibly stupid and unnecessary.

 

So...ICE doesn't care that Svetlana was running a human trafficking operation out of the bar as long as she was legally married to Vee while doing it? Because as I remember, ICE was a lot more concerned about underage prostitution than he was about whether Svet was there legally. But this show doesn't really seem to care about consistency. I did like the call back to Svetlana's dream of running a Quiznos in Kansas. She better pick a new franchise though- Quiznos are closing all over the midwest.

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I was actually worried that they wouldn't find the meth in the coffin.  That it might have been stolen by an employee at the funeral parlor.

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19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not her ex-husband. Sean was her boyfriend but she literally ditched him at the altar when she found out he was still using. Also, he was not the owner of Patsy's. He was the manager. Margo (Sharon Lawrence) is the owner. 

Chaos Theory I don't remember Fiona selling the laundromat. The fact that she owned a business is how she was able to get the bank loan to buy the apartment building. 

 

I didn't say "ex-husband"  I referred to him as "ex-husband to be" but thanks for giving me his name (Sean), which I couldn't recall.

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I love Fiona and Lip and it's been great to watch their journey. But I think it's about time for the show to stop treating Debbie and Carl as "the kids" and start giving them some strong arcs. As much as I love Fiona and Lip, and as much as I enjoy Frank's adventures, I wouldn't mind at all to see them taking a backseat to give more room for Ian and especially Debbie and Carl.

Thankfully they've been exploring more of Liam lately. But Debbie and Carl are old enough to get some strong, well written arcs now.

Edited by planet17.
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She sold the lease to Sharon Lawrence who then bought the building and tore it down. The laundromat just basically ceased to exist. When Fiona went to a party for the demolition Sharon Lawrence's assistant introduced her to a friend of his and said Fiona made a 100% profit on her investment in a matter of weeks ($80K vs. $160K). The friend then asked Fiona if she'd like to buy his apartment building which she did purchase.

Thanks for the refresher! It's been so long since last season I honestly couldn't remember. 

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But I think it's about time for the show to stop treating Debbie and Carl as "the kids" and start giving them some strong arcs. 

They are kids though. Even though Debbie dropped out of high school (apparently?), they're still both under 18. And I've seen about all of Debbie I care to at this point. I'm glad Neil kicked her to the curb but God knows what scheme she'll come up with next. She's getting to be almost as bad as Frank.

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6 hours ago, planet17 said:

I love Fiona and Lip and it's been great to watch their journey. But I think it's about time for the show to stop treating Debbie and Carl as "the kids" and start giving them some strong arcs. As much as I love Fiona and Lip, and as much as I enjoy Frank's adventures, I wouldn't mind at all to see them taking a backseat to give more room for Ian and especially Debbie and Carl.

Thankfully they've been exploring more of Liam lately. But Debbie and Carl are old enough to get some strong, well written arcs now.

It's also time for the show to stop reducing Ian to his relationships instead of treating him as a fully rounded character like Fiona & Lip.

Edited by Dee.
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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Thanks for the refresher! It's been so long since last season I honestly couldn't remember. 

They are kids though. Even though Debbie dropped out of high school (apparently?), they're still both under 18. And I've seen about all of Debbie I care to at this point. I'm glad Neil kicked her to the curb but God knows what scheme she'll come up with next. She's getting to be almost as bad as Frank.

What bothers me the most about Debbie is she just seems to have no understanding of the hurt she causes people any more. Lip, Fiona, Ian, and Carl have all done pretty shitty things, but they seemed to feel some bit of remorse, even when the people were shitty back, like Amanda and Gus. But Debbie just is oblivious. She didn't think anything of raping Matt, didn't see anything wrong with lying to Derek about being on birth control, and is treating Neil, who came along and rescued her and helped her regain custody of Frannie, with open disdain. Maybe she'll have a redemption arc coming up, but they sure have made her as unlikable as possible.

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1 hour ago, Tatum said:

What bothers me the most about Debbie is she just seems to have no understanding of the hurt she causes people any more. Lip, Fiona, Ian, and Carl have all done pretty shitty things, but they seemed to feel some bit of remorse, even when the people were shitty back, like Amanda and Gus. But Debbie just is oblivious. She didn't think anything of raping Matt, didn't see anything wrong with lying to Derek about being on birth control, and is treating Neil, who came along and rescued her and helped her regain custody of Frannie, with open disdain. Maybe she'll have a redemption arc coming up, but they sure have made her as unlikable as possible.

I don't hate Debbie at all. But Debbie is clearly the character most neglected by the writers and your points prove that. Like you said, all of the Gallaghers did despicable things. All of them. But we were still able to connect and root for them. The writers fail miserably when it comes to giving her motivations and an engaging arc. She is the character they care the least (if at all) and it shows clearly. I'm still trying to figure out why she kicked Sierra and her baby out of Neil's house for instance, among other things. Her pregnancy storyline, as much as I can see a lot of (interesting) psychological complexity, they failed miserably by not making the audience connect to her decisions (even if they were bad).

I still like Debbie and I still have hope she'll get a more decent material. But it is sad to see the writers putting no effort into giving her motivations and a relatable arc. They really don't care for her.

Edited by planet17.
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Or maybe it's the case that Debbie is the new Monica. Are the writers neglecting the character because they don't care about her, or are they deliberately trying to make her seem awful, like Frank and Monica?

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The show constantly skirts holding Debbie accountable by using her supposed ignorance of the real world as an excuse.

In other words, Debbie never believed she raped Matty, because Matty physically responded to her touch; and she didn't 'trap' Derek with a baby because, in her mind, she was only following Tanya's example. 

Where the show fails, is that it never makes the character process and/or learn from her decision making; she also never suffers any consequences for her actions.

So, instead of her having to deal with Matty pressing charges against her, or Derek's family petitioning DCFS for custody of Franny, the show just allows Debbie to blame everyone else for her unhappiness while constantly shoving her into new stories with hopes that something sticks.

Her current situation with Neil is perfect example. What better exemplifies Debbie's place on the show than taking advantage of a handicapped man who can't lie to her?

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20 hours ago, Dee said:

The show constantly skirts holding Debbie accountable by using her supposed ignorance of the real world as an excuse.

In other words, Debbie never believed she raped Matty, because Matty physically responded to her touch; and she didn't 'trap' Derek with a baby because, in her mind, she was only following Tanya's example. 

Where the show fails, is that it never makes the character process and/or learn from her decision making; she also never suffers any consequences for her actions.

So, instead of her having to deal with Matty pressing charges against her, or Derek's family petitioning DCFS for custody of Franny, the show just allows Debbie to blame everyone else for her unhappiness while constantly shoving her into new stories with hopes that something sticks.

Her current situation with Neil is perfect example. What better exemplifies Debbie's place on the show than taking advantage of a handicapped man who can't lie to her?

 

I think the show has held Debbie accountable.  Fiona rejected her.  She had no one where to live.  She had to resort to stealing baby carriages and got caught.  And now her boyfriend has rejected her.  That seems like pretty serious stuff for someone to deal with.  

 

As far as processing past mistakes, there are a lot of real people who never do that.  Our society is filled with repeat offenders.

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Has the show really held Debbie accountable?

Fiona didn't really reject Debbie. No, she didn't help with childcare once Debbie made it clear she was going to have the baby, but she helped with Franny's delivery & she didn't kick Debbie out on the street once Debs & Franny returned from the hospital. She also tried to help Debbie with parenting advice, most of which Debbie stubbornly rejected. And Fiona herself said she would've offered Debbie a job at the diner (as she did later at Etta's laundromat), if she truly believed Debbie had any intention of following her directions.

Debbie didn't get caught stealing baby carriages. She got caught boosting clothes. And Fiona, with the patience of a saint, bailed her out again.

Neil rejected Debbie because she literally pushed him into a new relationship. Had she remained home with him & Franny, as per their original arrangement, instead of partying, she & her daughter wouldn't currently be homeless and broke. And in the previews for the next episode, Debbie's already intent on moving back into the Gallagher house, so it isn't as if she has to seriously contend with homelessness.

The problem with Debbie never processing her mistakes is the character remains frustratingly static. Carl's corner boy arc was offensive & incredibly racist, but at least it provided Carl with significant character growth.

Edited by Dee.
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On 11/20/2017 at 7:39 AM, Gulftastic said:

Maybe because I've watched too much telly, but I now think any lady loving Fiona does will be with the blonde instead of the hinted at brunette. 

Yeah Fiona never actually goes for the relatively sane one who could probably take care of her  (not that she needs someone to take care of her but offering a sane life or relationship) and instead opts for crazy.   Every single time she opts for crazy passion.  

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guess I always felt Shameless was Fiona centered because she had to be parent, guardian, and the responsible adult for the family, so I understand the show concentrating on her. But I don't understand why Lip continues to be such a large part of the series.

It feels like Lip's been the male lead of the show for a long time now, probably since the beginning to me.  Frank is nothing but comic relief played by a big name star, I guess they felt they needed a male Gallagher to drive and lead storylines and arcs.

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Lip & Ian were the male leads of the show until Season 4. Once Ian ran away, the writers rewrote the show like it had always been centered primarily around Fiona & Lip.

Edited by Dee.
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On 11/25/2017 at 7:42 PM, Dee said:

Lip & Ian were the male leads of the show until Season 4. Once Ian ran away, the writers rewrote the show like it had always been centered primarily around Fiona & Lip.

For what it's worth, I can remember a lot more of Ian's last few major storylines than Lip's. Lip's hasn't been about anything but his alcoholism for what feels like a very long time.

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