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S06.E05: Deathstroke Returns 2017.11.09

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Joe is taken hostage by mercenaries and the mission to rescue him gets complicated by a terrible revelation that could shatter Slade's hopes of reunion forever. Meanwhile, Vigilante reappears in Star City.

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I was bored for most of it.

Liked: Felicity casually walking into Oliver's apartment and the Oliver/Felicity and Felicity/Diggle conversations.

Bored by: Slade. Dinah. Slade. Dinah. That was the episode there. Ugh.

Hated the Vigilante reveal. Not only did we meet Vigilante before Dinah, but they kept selling it as this big "you'll recognize him, be glad we're waiting a year to reveal it, etc." Guess what? Nope. That's my reaction to that. That was a lose-lose situation for Arrow, and Arrow lost big time.

I'm iffy about the FBI agent. I'm happy that Watson noticed that Dinah went missing and then BC showed up, but I had hoped for more from her scenes with Diggle and Felicity. 

That was one of those episodes where now that it's over, I'm sort of going, "so, what happened that I care about again? Uh..." 

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This episode could have just been Felicity spinning in a chair, Diggle and Rene playing air hockey, Dinah watching Family Feud, Curtis organizing books, and Oliver doing the Carlton Banks dance, and I still would have given it an A for the Deathstroke kill streak scene alone.

That kill streak scene was awesome.  They can't show as much as Marvel Netflix, but ball's in your court now, Punisher.  Castle's prison run through fight was great, Slade swung back, now you gotta top it.

I really love that they're starting to redeem Slade, and putting it out there that it was the Mirakuru that caused his hatred of Oliver.  The brothers gotta be reunited.

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Turns out an episode dedicated almost exclusively to Slade and Dinah is not something I even a little bit wanted. And when you add more flashbacks? So bored.

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lol the ending scene with the son oh so surprising. 

Slades fight was good but most of the episode was boring. Only liked Felicity, Oliver, Diggle and Felicity scene, the investigator and that last fight.

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3 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Turns out an episode dedicated almost exclusively to Slade and Dinah is not something I even a little bit wanted. And when you add more flashbacks? So bored.

The flashbacks were boring but I do love that it was a little family murder vacay. 

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Well, I guess the fun couldn't last for too long.

Honestly, there was a time that I would have been all for a Slade-focus episode and seeing more insight into his relationship with Oliver, but I was pretty bored with this one despite Stephen Amell and Manu Bennett's best efforts.  I knew that Dyson from Lost Girl... err, I mean Slade's former comrade was going to be bad and I totally knew Joseph was actually going to not be kidnapped, but be the leader of the Jackals, so it was a case of waiting and seeing.  At least there was a pretty cool fight scene, but they're going to keep this going for another episode, at least?  Eh, not a fan.

So, Vigilante makes his grand return and we find out who he is finally and he's.... Dinah's old partner/boyfriend?  Well, that's underwhelming.  And, of course, Dinah tries to be all big and bad about it, but in the end lets him go, because despite her claims, she isn't over him.  Whatever.  At least Juliana Harkavy was looking good in her sports bra during the training scene, even if nothing will top the days of season 2 Sara/Caity Lotz training in the Arrow Lair. 

The team almost deserves to get arrested for how obvious they are, but do they have to keep making Agent Watson so one-dimensional and hostile?

Did like the brief scenes between Oliver/Felicity and Felicity/Diggle at least.

When's Cayden James coming back?  Could care less about lame vigilantes or assassins with daddy issues, when there's a creepy Michael Emerson still in play!

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Hello bordom my old friend...

It wasn't an awful episode or anything, but it was mostly just dull. I love Slade, but I dont care about his son and the shows obsession with daddy issues, even though he had some cool moments. And I dont care at all about Dianhs dead (but not) ex boyfriend. All that build up to who Vigilante is, and its...that guy we saw for two minutes in a flashback one time! Who`s hardly been mentioned sense! Oh the drama! Speaking of uninteresting, I knew Slades son was going to be the Boss the second I saw the preview last week. I mean...duh. 

I am shocked shocked to find that not only was a previously dead person not dead, but that Slade`s son is a villain!" "Your winnings miss" "oh thank you very much."

On the plus side, we got Dig and Felicity talking (twice!) in good, character consistent conversations, and while we didn't get much Olicity, I enjoyed the bits that we got very much. They spoke to each other like adults, Felicity worried about him for reasons that made sense, and Oliver is clearly still so very smitten by what a genius his girlfriend is. 

Edited by tennisgurl.
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"You're . . . you're . . . " "That's right, da. I'm the boss here." "I thought you'd be Jericho." "Why?!?" "Cuz you're Joe, kid." "Do I have curly hair bordering on an afro, with thick mutton chops?!?" "I dunno. Figured you'd get that set of powers." "No, I'm more or less Grant. This isn't The Flash. Powers would be difficult to explain." "The new Black Canary-" "Ugh. Do not get me started, da."

I saw the big reveal coming. I don't blame Slade for not seeing it, because he was in Extreme Revenge Mode. I was expecting Oliver in hiding, muttering to himself. "Man, you're the professional assassin. The fuck do you not see this coming?!?"

I kinda wanna see Mayor Wild Dog in action. I know Rene has grown, but can he run anything smoothly? Where was Quentin. Right, probably keeping vigil over Thea while staring at a bottle of booze. BTW, is it a little odd Willa gets credited before Emily? I'm not looking to start a fight . . . I just noticed that tonight.

Of course Vigilante is Dinah's partner-partner. The ability to take damage was actually written in the original Vigilante miniseries, when the guy's alter ego was Adrian Chase, but not to that extreme. I read the first trade paperback from the library. It's an interesting look at extremism written in the Eighties, and I'd recommend reading it. Back to the show: the reveal was a bit of a cheat.

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I was so bored that I nodded off twice and there is no way I am watching this again to see what I missed. From what I saw I liked olicity and Delicity.   Now I am off to go watch episode 4.

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Between this episode and Oliver's Russia flashbacks, I am now convinced that all of Eastern Europe suffers from a depletion of natural sunlight, so now they have to use giant blue lamps to light everything. 

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Slade and Son was snore-worthy. Yikes. I just don't care. I did like the fight at the end though. That was pretty cool. And I always love the Slade music. That's about it though.

I thought the Olicity scene was great, although I side eye the fact that Felicity encouraged Oliver to help the man who murdered his mother. But aside from that it felt very natural, the way she let herself in and William was clearly used to her presence. I'm loving the communication between them.

IDGAF about Dinah or her ex boyfriend and I thought some of the scenes were some of the worst acting JH has done on the show so far. And even though I expected it, I'm annoyed they're wasting Vigilante on her.

I can't believe we got another Delicity scene again, which I really loved because it helped ease my earlier side eye over Felicity's encouragement, LOL. I like that they shared how concerned they were and even bought up the fact that Slade did leave them to themselves on Lian Yu. 

That's literally all I've got. Meh.

Edited by Angel12d.
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My biggest issue with this episode is that everything could be seen from a mile away. I was not shocked by anything that happened. 

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2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

 

I thought the Olicity scene was great, although I side eye the fact that Felicity encouraged Oliver to help the man who murdered his mother. But aside from that it felt very natural, the way she let herself in and William was clearly used to her presence. I'm loving the communication between them.

 

See I actually bought her telling Oliver to help Slade! She didn't like Moira and said Moira was evil (or something like that) at Moira's own funeral! So I can see her selling out Moira's memory in exchange for Oliver not feeling guilty if he didn't help Slade.

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3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I thought the Olicity scene was great, although I side eye the fact that Felicity encouraged Oliver to help the man who murdered his mother.

Yeah, that wasn't the best, but I feel like they did the best in the short time they gave to it, plus I like that they had her frame it as Oliver helping Slade's son.

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I actually kind of liked it? Maybe because I had such low expectations but after all of last week's awesomeness I thought they would pull way back on the Olicity scenes but we still got a great one. And not one, but two Delicity moments! And a pretty endearing Oliver/William chat. This is also the first time I was really, really impressed by Juliana's performance (even though the Vigilante reveal was meh). Plus, Samanda knowing what's up is intriguing/terrifying.

I even liked the Slade stuff (minus the flashbacks, which ground everything to a halt). Yeah, I wish they would bring up the Moira of it all, but I'm glad that Dig and Felicity are still bitter about how he abandoned them on the island. And the fight scene was not just awesome, it was also one of the most brutal things the show has ever done, reminding us Slade is never going to fully be a "good guy."

I'd love for every week to prioritize character over plot/action like 604 but that's just not what gear this show usually operates in. But they gave us enough moments tonight that I still really like where this season is going.

Edited by Trisha.
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I was prepared to try, but nope don't care about Slade and his daddy issues.  He killed Moria - in front of her kids - so asking me to care about his sad daddy story?  Nope. 

And blame the mirakuau all you want show, I remember that Slade tried to kill Oliver and Thea on the island too.

Dinah continues to be abysmal - if we have to have cannon fodder this year, I hope it is her.  And a swear JH's acting is getting worse with each episode.  

Flashbacks do not make this show better.   

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I think whoever plotted this episode deserves the blame for it.  Maybe they thought that after a couple of episodes showcasing Diggle and Felicity, we'd be okay with one about Dinah and Slade.  Nah, son.

The writing tried but who didn't foresee that Vigilante was Dinah's old partner?  (I still can't figure out why he's in Starling City which has it's own vigilantes instead of Coast City who has no one (and a lot of bad guys as we know from the s4 flashback).)   Dinah had her first flashback episode in her first season, as did Rene (while Felicity and Diggle had to wait till s3) and now in her second season, I'm not interested enough in her yet to give her yet another arc.

And Joe being the leader of the bad guys was so obvious too. And that Slade was going to kill that nice  tourist when he was camping with Joe.  Surprise me, show, don't make me take another shot every time I guessed it.

I really liked the Diggle/Felicity scenes, with Diggle telling Felicity that she's the best, and Felicity admitting that she's not okay with Oliver going with Slade even though she encouraged him to do it because it's the right thing. And the FBI lady who came with just the right amount of sass against Our Team.

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I'm iffy about the FBI agent. I'm happy that Watson noticed that Dinah went missing and then BC showed up, but I had hoped for more from her scenes with Diggle and Felicity.

I wanted more because the actress is doing such a good job of the role.   Much more compelling than Dinah. 

23 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

That kill streak scene was awesome.  They can't show as much as Marvel Netflix, but ball's in your court now, Punisher.  Castle's prison run through fight was great, Slade swung back, now you gotta top it.

I really love that they're starting to redeem Slade, and putting it out there that it was the Mirakuru that caused his hatred of Oliver.  The brothers gotta be reunited.

The kill streak was awesome.  One of the better stunts of this season.

But as Diggle pointed out, Slade left them all on the island to be blown up and die.  They can reunite Oliver and Slade but there's no redeeming Slade as long as his ,moral values remain lacking. 

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Oliver still out in whoopwhoop by the end of the ep? Or is he headed home for Dessert?

No, the big Shocking! reveal at the end was that Joe is running the gang so Oliver's staying for another episode.

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I didn’t hate it, but they didn’t show Diggle’s talk with Watson? Lame. 

They must be trying to get us to hate her. She’s so one dimensional, “I’m gonna get you.”

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15 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

The team almost deserves to get arrested for how obvious they are, but do they have to keep making Agent Watson so one-dimensional and hostile?

This has annoyed me about her since he first episode. I get that she's supposed to be suspicious and tough, but there isn't a hint of nuance in her portrayal at all. There's not much nuance in the writing either, but I hate how one-note Sydelle Noel's performance is. It's such a stereotypical "sassy black woman" performance and as a black woman, I wish she'd take it down a notch. Or a thousand.

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What I don’t understand is why the writers think it’s good storytelling to have basically everyone unable to connect the very obvious dots leading from Oliver Queen returns from the dead days before a vigilante with Oliver Queen’s facial hair makes his debut to Oliver Queen and his friends are the Green Arrow and his friends except for this random FBI lady. She better have gotten some super deduction skills in that Central City explosion or something because being able to see the obvious is not normal in this world.  

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I just did the quickest watch of the entire episode! Wasn't too bad! I liked the scene where Dinah was telling them she saw Vincent. I thought JH did well in that scene.

Slade going mental and killing everyone was freaking awesome! I want to go out and buy myself two swords! 

The Delicity scene was so soft and adorable. I liked how they had Felicity tell Oliver to go but that she wasn't particularly at peace with it and told Diggle! That was a nice touch.

LOVED the Olicity scene! I wasn't expecting one so I was thrilled. AND WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN ARUBA!!!! I NEED TO KNOW!!!! Somebody write me a fic!!!!!!!

But my hands down favourite scene was the one with Slade and Oliver when Felicity got Slade some info. Oliver had his totally bragging face on! He was so smug and proud of how intelligent the wifey is and that he landed her! 

Slade: She’s brilliant, how did you get her?

Oliver: I ask myself that everyday

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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It was better than I was expecting but also far more dull at the same time. I was expecting more constant action with Slade (even though I expected not to care about it, lol)  I guess the big fight was well done but I kept getting distracted by all the bags of potato chips everywhere in the Jackle's hide out. I didn't even bother to watch any of the preview or promos so I was actually surprised Joe was the boss.  Too busy enjoying Dyson showing up to think very far ahead (past clearly he was going to be a betrayer).  

The flashback reminded me why I am very happy the flashbacks are OVER for Oliver.

We got much more Felicity than I had any hopes of getting so that right away pleased me.  I didn't expect to see them interact at all so that was a very pleasant surprise.  It was a very sweet scene where he wanted her to talk him out of it but she knows how much going and helping means to him so she instead suggests a way that Oliver could go without feeling like he was betraying William.  

I ADORE that little scene between Oliver and Slade about all Felicity found out.  The sheer glowing pride and happiness he had in being able to brag about her through her accomplishments to Slade was the best thing.  Only topped by the knowledge how much a certain group of viewers must have hated that instead of trying to kill Felicity, Slade comments on her brilliance.  There was even a thread I saw on Reddit today where some of them were discussing how to cope if they got such a scene.  Hee!!!

Again too much Dinah but even though her arc with her connection to Vince/Vigilante is predictable and dull, the episode was more tolerable with her not obsessing over Diggle at least.  I think this was the most words Felicity and Dinah exchanged directly also.  It was a good scene overall.  Later she went to extremes, first with how she was going to put him down and then just letting him go.  But the most egregious moment was when Cop Dinah does a quick change into BC after specifically calling for no masks to show up.  She didn't even use her cry, did she? So why change clothes?  Why not face him down as Lt. Dinah Drake?  

It was a pleasure to have a two really nice moements between Felicity and Diggle.  Those kind of moments do wonders for the character bonds.  

It wasn't a great episode but it had some really nice moments and so I'm happy about that.  Next week hopefully will also have some unexpected gems but I'll keep my expectations low.

 

I kind of feel like i'm infringing on Quarks' territory but it was so clear that they just redressed William's bedroom as Oliver's.  That new apartment set is a mess.  Makes no sense.  Plus SOOOOO ugly.  I also felt like I recognized the set when Oliver went to see the prison warden but can't put my finger on it.  Maybe the Deadshot and Cupid episode?

 

Also, anyone have any idea where in the timeline Felicity fit in a trip to Central City for the bachelorette party?  It clearly happened before this episode by last episode ended with Oliver agreeing to see Slade the next day.  So does that mean she went to CC before the end of last week's episode?  

Edited by BkWurm1.
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I'm really liking Agent Watson. I liked her scene with Diggle (seriously, him being at a crime scene was so dumb) and how she just had a question and response to everything. And her scene with Felicity was great even though it was far too short. The deadpan look on her face when Felicity tried to joke was pretty funny.

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35 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

 

I kind of feel like i'm infringing on Quarks' territory but it was so clear that they just redressed William's bedroom as Oliver's.  That new apartment set is a mess.  Makes no sense.  Plus SOOOOO ugly.  I also felt like I recognized the set when Oliver went to see the prison warden but can't put my finger on it.  Maybe the Deadshot and Cupid episode

Was that the room at Iron Heights where Darkh stabbed Laurel? I wasn’t really paying attention to either scene, but they looked kind of similar to me. 

I thought I was sick of the loft, but now I hope Oliver and William move in there, lack of walls be damned. I hate Oliver’ Apartment. You know what? Have Olicity buy a house that looks suspiciously like their Ivy Town house even though no one mentions it. Just get poor Myson out of his prison cell bedroom. 

Edited by Hiveminder.
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Vigilante being Tinah's ex-boyfriend makes no sense (even for this show). Vigilante targeted Team Arrow before Tinah even joined, before Team Arrow even knew she existed, before she knew they existed? And he just happened to move to Star(ling) City too? Lame. 

They must have had a different plan for Vigilante that they changed for some reason. I refuse to believe this reveal was what they were hyping/drawing out for a year. 

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I miss Cayden James already. I know it's only been one episode, but I miss Cayden James.

Good things:

1.  Slade's kill spree. Pity the rest of the episode didn't live up to this, but that was pretty awesome, especially if, like me, you were in the mood to watch various extras get slaughtered.

2. Slade asking Oliver how he got Felicity and Oliver admitting he doesn't have a clue. (I do, Oliver. It's the abs.) 

3. Felicity and the FBI lady. I find it highly doubtful that FBI lady would actually allow Felicity to ditch an FBI interview for a supposed coffee date, but there we are. I laughed.

4. Speaking of Felicity, in one brief moment with Dinah, the two of them managed to convince me that they are and will be better friends than Iris and Caitlin. Nice moment.

5. Diggle and Felicity pointing out that this Oliver/Slade teamup is weird. I was thinking the same thing, but it was nice to have the show point this out.

6. Oooh, everyone! I think we have a THIRD reporter in Star City now, not counting the ones who were badgering Oliver in the second episode. I assume this rush to the journalism profession is because so far, the journalists are outliving the attorneys on this show.

7. Liked that Dinah mostly came forward to immediately tell Team Arrow about Vigilante, ignoring, of course, that she left out some rather important context, like, Vigilante probably being a metahuman. I realize none of you are good at this, Team Arrow, but really, full disclosure is great for everyone!  But still, at least Dinah tried. Full points for this.

Questionable things:

1. How many visors does Vigilante have?  And how is he paying for them? Enquiring minds want to know. 

2. Can we blame Vigilante on Barry, too?   (I will anyway, but I thought I'd get some group input here.)

3. Uh, Arrow? Didn't we go through a whole sequence of noting that Quentin is now the deputy mayor? What was this stuff about Rene? And Rene, if you have to ask, maybe you shouldn't be doing mayor stuff.

4. Why didn't we see the Diggle versus the FBI agent stuff? That could have been great.

5. Uh, Curtis? You presumably know that Felicity is off chatting with the FBI lady, right? How about maybe holding off on your message for a bit or at least trying to code it somewhat? What if the FBI had demanded to look at Felicity's phone just then?

6. Isn't anyone planning on bringing an attorney to one of these FBI meetings?  Arrow, you have day players now! Turn them into attorneys! Yes, the murder rate for attorneys in Star City is a bit high, but, you know, day player.  Plus, dropping bodies everywhere is kinda your thing, not to mention that since nobody is watching Valor and The 100 isn't back on air yet, somebody has to keep up the CW's death count!  Step up to the plate, Arrow!

7. Why was this random international politician so interested in pleasing the mayor of a medium-sized American city with a high crime rate and frequent terrorist attacks? Is it the abs? Because I'd forgive this if it's the abs. Honestly.  More diplomacy through shirtlessness, Oliver!  Whoops. I think I got off track here.

8. Do spies usually bring their families on vacation, or only if they expect to murder people/get murdered?

9. Slade, did it occur to you that your son might just go through your bag, looking for chips or something, and find your mask?

10. FBI Lady to Diggle: Why are you at this crime scene? I am so suspicious that I am going to question you and call in other Team Arrow guys.

Diggle: And since that went well, I will show up at the next crime scene!

11. Wouldn't the Fake Eastern European Country guys have at least tried to Google Slade's fake Rescue Prisoners Through Bribes group?  Especially given the rumors that the mayor requesting the release shoots arrows in his spare time?

12. You're the mayor of a city where office space is at a premium and where city officials are attacked in broad daylight by people in weird masks. Also, you are suspected of being the Green Arrow, and an important ballot initiative is coming up. Do you a) stay in the city and campaign as hard as you can for your ballot initiative and ensure that the FBI has plenty of footage of you in public when the Green Arrow is shooting at things, or b) run off to a foreign country with the guy who just abandoned your friends to die on Lian Yu a few months ago?

Although I suppose we should give Arrow points for consistency on this one: six seasons of Oliver's terrible decision making continues, everyone!

Bad things:

1. The flashbacks are back. Why are the flashbacks back? What did I do to you, Arrow? WHAT?  Oh, right. List the bad things in each and every episode and complain about the sets. Carry on, Arrow. Except maybe not with flashbacks.

2. Why, why, and WHY did the Jackals decide to make a Vancouver basketball court their main lair? I know that the answer is, as always on this show, budget problems, but really, even for you, show, this is sad.

3. And speaking of questionable sets, Arrow, changing the comforter and removing a poster does not count as redressing the set. 

4. And still speaking of questionable sets, Arrow, YOU FILM IN A TELEVISION STUDIO AND A SOUNDSTAGE SO YOU KNOW WHAT THEIR CEILINGS TYPICALLY LOOK LIKE. What was that?

5. Moving on to questionable location shooting, look, I get it, you're in Vancouver. It's not New Zealand. That said, you are not that far off from nice mountains that just might give a better impression of "New Zealand" than a few tents, burnt "fish" and a ball. The spy tourists wandering through with American accents didn't help, I admit, but that's because I kept thinking that even spy tourists would be more interested in seeing hobbit stuff and mountains than a tent and a burnt fish. They're spies. That doesn't mean that they can't appreciate true beauty! If The 100 and Supernatural can get their butts out to the mountains, and they can and do, you can too. 

And that's not even mentioning the highly suspicious similarities between an outdoor meeting place in "fake eastern European country whose name I've already forgotten" and "outdoor meeting place now used by several different criminals in Star and Central City."  

6. Was it just me, or did Dinah have more sexual/romantic tension in her scenes with Diggle than her scenes with her supposed ex?

7. Speaking of which, I was kinda hoping for more from the Vigilante reveal.  Any of a number of the first season one shot characters, for instance. Or another ex girlfriend of Oliver's. Or even, given that we just got yet another Ferris Air name drop, the ultimate Arrow reveal: Vigilante is....wait for it...Kyle Rayner!!!!!!!!

Sob.

8. Pacing. The FBI is closing in on Green Arrow and Team Arrow. But, rather than seeing the scenes with, not at random, Diggle and FBI Lady, or Rene and FBI Lady, we focus on....flashbacks with Slade.  I like Slade. I thought most of the best scenes tonight were Slade scenes.  But that's a problem, especially because, as has been sadly true of most of the flashbacks since season two, pretty much all of the flashback stuff turned out to be narratively unnecessary. They showed us that a) Slade was the sort of terrible father who instead of taking his kid to nice hobbity places (especially bad given that Slade was actually IN The Hobbit, but moving on) took him to cheap camping sites with terrible fish because it was a nice place to kill spy tourists who undoubtedly wished that they'd gone to Disneyland instead, and that b) Slade killed people, both things we learned from the dialogue in the rest of the episode. 

Would we have learned much from seeing more of the Diggle/FBI Lady scenes? Maybe, maybe not - but we would at least have gotten a better sense of what this lady has on them.

9. But speaking of this investigation - so a guy is running around shooting at city officials and has managed to infiltrate a city television station, turn off the lights, and cause havoc, and the FBI is still mostly interested in one vigilante? I'm not saying that they shouldn't be investigating vigilantes, but given everything else going on, maybe they need to be rethinking their priorities. After all, FBI, there is a guy zipping around in a flying chair in Central City so, you know, you may have issues here.

10. There's predicable, and then there's me, saying in the very first Oliver/Slade scene, before either of them went anywhere, "Huh. I'll bet anything Joe has joined the bad guys." And then there's me, saying later, "Huh, I bet Vigilante is going to come back, have a tearful/painful scene with Dinah, and then jump away, all of which will make the FBI lady even more suspicious."  And there's me saying, "huh, Dinah is RATHER SUSPICIOUSLY FAILING TO MENTION THAT ALL OF THIS HAPPENED DURING THE PARTICLE ACCELERATOR EXPLOSION, as the "Previously on Arrow" bit just showed us. I bet Vigilante is a metahuman!" And there's me saying, "Oliver, don't drink that. Every single time that someone offers you a drink in a tense situation - wow, I couldn't even finish my thought process there before Oliver fell over."

I HAVE A POINT HERE, ARROW. IT'S MORE SUBTLE THAN YOU ARE USED TO, GRANTED, BUT CONSIDER IT CLOSELY.

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I know they show wants us to think that Diggle will be the Green Arrow always and forever from now until eternity, but the change is at least partially to give full cover to Oliver, right?  So it's a bit suspicious that the Green Arrow is not seen at all after Oliver Queen mysteriously disappears for a few days to "help a friend" leaving a junior staffer instead of his "no reason given" missing deputy.

Still loving the Olicity scenes.  More than one next time, m'kay?

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I got the chance to catch up on the other threads while watching the episode, so there is that.

I'm honestly sad that Vigilante isn't Pike just so they can link him to Dinah. My first thought was, oy, another meta. I get that's the only way he could have survived, but I am less than thrilled about this development to say the least. Speaking of metas, Dinah chose very weird times to use her power. First she used it while in her everday outfit, and then didn't once she changed into her BC garb. What the...? Is she trying to get caught by Watson? I will say that most of her scene telling the team was well played. Then it went back to bad when she was venting to Dig later on. JH really has pronounced highs and lows in her delivery. Plus, in that scene she took the time to change into work out clothes, but then had low heeled booties on? Why, Dinah, why?

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

The flashbacks were boring but I do love that it was a little family murder vacay. 

It's so surprising that Joe turned to the life of organized crime after being used as cover for his dad's murder jaunts. I'm shocked! To be fair, Slade does raise a goal getter. The kid is the head of the Jackals at the ripe old age of, what, 26 or 27?

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

But my hands down favourite scene was the one with Slade and Oliver when Felicity got Slade some info. Oliver had his totally bragging face on! He was so smug and proud of how intelligent the wifey is and that he landed her! 

Slade: She’s brilliant, how did you get her?

Oliver: I ask myself that everyday

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Yeah, not my favorite. Just because I think Slade is the wrong person for Oliver to gush with over Felicity. If you have to be there, just get the dirty work done and get out ASAP. On the other hand, I laughed that Slade took a cue from Felicity's playbook and drugged Oliver in order to keep him safe.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I kind of feel like i'm infringing on Quarks' territory but it was so clear that they just redressed William's bedroom as Oliver's.  That new apartment set is a mess.  Makes no sense.  Plus SOOOOO ugly. 

I hope there is an actual narrative point to how bad and inappropriate for raising a child that place is and it changes when either Felicity moves in, Oliver and William move to the loft, or all three find new digs together.

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12 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

I know they show wants us to think that Diggle will be the Green Arrow always and forever from now until eternity, but the change is at least partially to give full cover to Oliver, right?  So it's a bit suspicious that the Green Arrow is not seen at all after Oliver Queen mysteriously disappears for a few days to "help a friend" leaving a junior staffer instead of his "no reason given" missing deputy.

Still loving the Olicity scenes.  More than one next time, m'kay?

 

It's also a bit suspicious that the Green Arrow is now a hulking black guy who shoots crossbow bolts instead of a white guy using a conventional bow.  But I guess Black Siren's the only person in Star City with observational abilities.  

This episode was better than the last, though I have to say that I saw Slade's son secretly being evil coming from a mile away.  I was hoping there was going to be some other twist, but alas, the writers still aren't bringing their A game.  I liked that Dinah got more screen time and development as I feel like a Black Canary character should have a presence on a Green Arrow show, it was interesting seeing her as shaken as she was about Vigilante (who's got the most useful power ever!) because she's always so chill about most things.  The cast still feels too bloated, I really think that the writers missed a great opportunity on Lian Yu by not thinning out the herd a bit.  Curtis adds nothing to the show and honestly would probably be more at home on LoT to fulfill the "snarky and socially awkward hacker" slot.  The last fight scene was great and Manu Bennett had the best performance of the episode.  For all the cheese that Spartacus had, it had a lot of great actors.  

I hope that whatever goes down with the Slade-Oliver plot, it ties back into the main plot of the show, otherwise, we'll have wasted two episodes.  Does anyone know what's supposed to be the main villain of the season?  I read somewhere that the writers were planning to divide Season 6 Arrow into sections like Agents of Shield did last season since that worked so well for them.

One thing I didn't like was Oliver saying that he didn't know how he ended up with Felicity.  Have some confidence Oliver!  He went from useless trust fund bro to bratva hitman to vigilante to mayor.  That's more life accomplishments than most people manage. 

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4 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

This has annoyed me about her since he first episode. I get that she's supposed to be suspicious and tough, but there isn't a hint of nuance in her portrayal at all. There's not much nuance in the writing either, but I hate how one-note Sydelle Noel's performance is. It's such a stereotypical "sassy black woman" performance and as a black woman, I wish she'd take it down a notch. Or a thousand.

She's a Scooby-Doo villain. She's fixated on proving that Oliver Queen is the Green Arrow, but a sniper is trying to assassinate a councilwoman on city steps and on live TV. She brings a phalanx to the TV station to catch the Green Arrow, but treats the councilwoman's safety like an afterthought. Her priorities are all messed up. And if she gets her way, Oliver is arrested and imprisoned. Does that stop Star City from being a hellscape. Nor does she seem to have any interest in actually dealing with the crime and corruption in Star City. 

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She better have gotten some super deduction skills in that Central City explosion or something because being able to see the obvious is not normal in this world.  

I think some of Star City was making that connection, until twice (?) it was "proven" that Oliver wasn't.  Though there are people who think we haven't been to the Moon*, so some people will believe things in spite of the official story.

The FBI agent's writing could take a page from iZombie's  Dale Bozio, who has a fully formed personality.  Though I liked the glimmer of humanity about "I think lots of things.  I focus on what I can prove."

* Went to the Moon in the 70's; thinking we've been recently is a different conspiracy.

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Somethings I noticed that might not matter but entertained me anyway:

  • Aw, looks like Felicity's been using her key from Oliver from how she came into his apartment, and from the looks of it has done it multiple times
  • Since when did their spot switch from Bali to Aruba? Does MG just have Aruba on the brain?
  • Slade's kid in the flashbacks totally saw his dad kill that guy, right? It wasn't explained in the flashbacks but something idk I kind of assumed
  • Arrow's getting pretty good at setting up pseduo/actual one take fight scenes now
  • I feel like you could feel DR's awareness of having to say "mirakuru" in a scene again
  • They literally tried to answer every plot hole question about Vigilante in this episode almost in a row ("but he died" "idk metahuman" "why did you leave" "justice yada yada" "he could have killed you back in that time in 515 but didn't" etc.)
  • Felicity's glasses joke with Watson and Watson's non-reaction made me laugh so hard we had to pause the episode and re-watch it 2 more times until I could move on
  •  They couldn't have at least mentioned Lance?
  • One thing that became really clear to me as of this episode is that every episode so far has had at least a "moment" (actually at this point usually more than 1 per episode) between Diggle and Felicity be it a scene, direct dialogue, reference, etc. They may not be the full on direct scenes that I or others may want (especially with Felicity still working with Curtis and Diggle getting set with Dinah, although Diggle and Felicity's moments together have been shown as a more positive supportive, equal relationship), but since we're five episodes in I'll partially concede that it might be the writers actually listening and putting more interactions between them although it might also be 
    Spoiler

    that they want to make sure that Diggle and Felicity are still portrayed as closer than say Felicity and Curtis once the divide between OTA and the newbies come, but I'll still take it.

     

Edited by way2interested.
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This episode was boring to me. I like the present day Slade stuff &  I feel like the episode would've been better had it concentrated on that. Loved the Delicity & Olicity scenes, also Felicity/Watson was a great short scene, I want more. But the Slade flashbacks were boring & the DD/Vigilante plot was awful. I think everyone called his identity, so to have to sit through her constipated acting as the B plot was tedious. I hope they make this a smaller plot point going forward. I can't wait for Thea to return, I need another woman I enjoy other than Felicity (since Watson is rarely around).

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I actually was okay with this episode overall, but there were too many flashbacks, too much Dinah, and way too much predictability...

It was predictable that Slade's friend would betray him (the "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" line from Firefly comes to mind).

It was predictable that the kidnap victim (Slade's son) would turn out to be the big bad (the "boss"). Sigh. Let's hope he's just deep undercover and not truly evil. Otherwise, we'll probably be subjected to a scene of Slade crying over his dead son in the next episode - unless his son escapes and then Slade will embark on an ongoing chase after his son, leaving his storyline open for his return (or a spinoff).

It was predictable that the Vigilante would turn out to be Dinah's ex-partner/lover who was shot in the head and presumed dead in 511. (And what a stunning coincidence that they both ended up in Star City.) The EPs have said that they've always known the identity of the Vigilante, but I'm skeptical since they recast the part. In 511 last season, Vincent Sobel was played by Clayton Chitty. Now he's played by Johann Urb. 

It was just stupid for Dinah to change into her Black Canary costume before confronting the Vigilante when FBI Agent Samanda Watson was on site. Dinah's a trained cop. It would've been explainable and less incriminating if she had just fought the Vigilante as Lt. Dinah Drake. He already knew who she was. It was also somewhat laughable that that young cop didn't recognize Dinah as the Black Canary, considering she had the same hair and build. 

Now we have another metahuman on the "grounded" Arrow show. Double sigh.

I didn't mind that Felicity encouraged Oliver to help Slade find his son. She doesn't care about Slade. She just knows how Oliver thinks and that he'll regret it if he doesn't help Slade. So she's really just thinking about Oliver and also Joe.

William looks like he's grown yet another foot.

That one long fight sequence where Slade/Deathstroke mows down the Jackals was mesmerizing, I have to say.

Whoah! Slade goes from threatening "the girl with the glasses" to complimenting Felicity as "brilliant" and wondering how Oliver got her.

Manu Bennett has been super enthused about this Slade two-parter at comic cons. I can understand why. This episode was an opportunity for him and Juliana Harkavy to stretch their acting muscles and add some footage to their acting demo reels. 

Edited by tv echo.
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Welp. This was a dull episode. I was looking forward to it because Slade. I liked his parts (not the FB), the Delicity scenes, Samanda, the Olicity interactions. The Vigilante reveal was extremely underwhelming and truthfully telegraphed. I don’t care about Bird v.345738z. I just don’t. It’s a shame because a true Slade episode would’ve been stellar. 

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As you guys already know, I feel Black Canary should have no presence on Arrow at all. Not after what's happened in 5/6 seasons. This episode just reinforced that. Why is it that every dang time the show feels the need to push BC into the forefront, they have to take Oliver away? Because the character doesn't work with Oliver. 

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It wasn't a bad episode, per say (the first three episodes of this season were worse for me), but it was just dull. Dinah and Slade are characters I didn't necessarily need more of, Slade moreso. I get that they want this Black Canary arc with Dinah so they've increased her role to please more comics fans. I totally understand that; even if I'm not a fan of Black Canary, I know there are so many others who are pleased with how Dinah's been used. It's just not my personal cup of tea. That being said, Juliana was a hit or miss with her acting this episode. I didn't mind her talk with her ex at the end and thought she did fine there, but her confessing to the team was off. I'm not sure whether she was going for a numb performance (if so, she did fine there) or an upset/sad performance (she failed there). I just simply don't care about Vigilante being her ex, especially since it's been predicted since Dinah's very first scene on the show. Besides thinking briefly it could have been Pike, I haven't wavered on that theory for good reason.

Slade's story was fine, but it felt like they're trying to set up for a spinoff series with him. He's getting two episodes for this, and I'm just not particularly caring. I guess it gives Oliver something to do out on the field, but wouldn't FBI Lady notice Oliver's absence? I guess he can explain his absence from town to be business-related reasons, but it looks like he's not going back to Star City for another few days. Also, he left Rene in charge, who promptly abandoned his post to fight crime (so I guess Quentin's taking over offscreen?). 

We got two Digglicity scenes, which makes me extremely happy, as well as Olicity sprinkled throughout the episode, mostly by mention. So that helped raise the episode. 

Otherwise, not the worst episode, but it was centered around two characters I couldn't care less about so it was just dull. 

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I expected a Deathstroke episode to be more about him than this was, result, i was bored 80% of the time.

Loved the Deathsroke vs Jackals fight scene, really well done. Some great Delicity moments in there, nice Olicity scene and i like agent Watson a lot, Arrow should keep her.

In S5 i tried to give yet another version of BC a chance turns out she's worst than the other 2 birds combined, JH is just not a good actress and the more material they give her the more noticeable it is, she has 1 facial expression and the same stance for every scene, doesn't matter what it is. 

I had hopes for The Vigilante, Arrow just managed to kill them all. Right on brand for a show that in my opinion ruins the majority of CB chars they decide to use in the show. I'll give them kudos for actually fixing "Ollie" from the comics and turning him (for the most part) into a great guy called Oliver on Arrow. 

I hope Deathstroke part 2 is better. 

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605 was the first Arrow episode written by Spiro Skentzos (actually co-written by Ben Sokolowski & Spiro Skentzos). He was so excited that he tweeted along during the episode - here's some of his tweets....

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1 hour ago, way2interested said:

 

  • Since when did their spot switch from Bali to Aruba? Does MG just have Aruba on the brain?
  •   Hide contents

    that they want to make sure that Diggle and Felicity are still portrayed as closer than say Felicity and Curtis once the divide between OTA and the newbies come, but I'll still take it.

     

My working theory is that Aruba is a place they've talked about visiting, either before calling off the engagement (who knows, maybe even a planned honeymoon destination) or after getting back together.

Spoiler

Maybe they can head for Arube for their honeymoon in the winter finale before they are tragically delayed.

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8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Hmmm, perhaps the costumes for lady superheroes should use flat shoes then? 

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2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Hmmm, perhaps the costumes for lady superheroes should use flat shoes then? 

Seconded, thirded, fourthed, fifthed.

I don't deny that Felicity looks great in those stiletto heels, but given that the Arrow Cave was just infiltrated by bad guys about one month ago, and before that, about six months ago, why is she there in shoes and a tight skirt that will be impossible to run/fight in? Especially since over on Flash, where I could handwave her initial outfit/shoes with "hey, party!" she flipped over to more practical clothing midway through the episode. 

I know they have an issue here since the show both wants/needs (for budget reasons) to showcase EBR in designer clothing, and since she's no longer working at QC/Palmer Tech and instead is working out at her loft apartment, they have an issue of just when they can put her into those clothes, but it continues to distract me.

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