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Premature Unfurling: TV spoilers & speculation

3 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

They didn't grow, they devolved to fit a storyline.

This seems to be happening a lot these days.  Writers forget that a character is the vessel  through which the audience experiences the story.  We grow attached to them.... and their foibles.  

The plot is secondary almost always.  

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15 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That would have been interesting, if they went with the angle where he's no longer unknown, that he's well known for being the Devil. Will people be lining up to make deals with him, will he do the talk show circuit, would he hate the fame or wallow in it? And what would Dad thing of it all? Would he step in and try to contain it? Would he find himself surrounded by devil worshipers? Have a religion built around himself? What would it do to society, if we had actual proof of God's existence? Any of that would be more interesting than Chloe finding out which is as anti-climactic as possible.  

If I trusted these writers anymore, this would've been an interesting way to go. Seeing Lucifer dealing with the different religious people that would mostly likely go after him either for proof or to kill him or make the world think he's a fake. Would Dad step in? Would any of the other siblings? That would've been a cliffhanger that would've made me upset at the cancellation. 

Would any of the other demons pop up? I would've liked to meet Maze's mom, Lilith.  It would have even been interesting since they had Cain if Maze was a daughter of Adam and Lilith making her Cain's half sister. That would've been more interesting than his stupid love triangle with the most uninteresting woman in the world.

Edited by Sakura12.
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2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Would any of the other demons pop up? I would've liked to meet Maze's mom, Lilith.  It would have even been interesting since they had Cain if Maze was a daughter of Adam and Lilith making her Cain's half sister. That would've been more interesting than his stupid love triangle with the most uninteresting woman in the world.

This is what makes me frustrated more than anything. Here they have this amazing pantheon to choose from, so many amazing mythic stories to expand upon, and they choose "what if the Devil fell in love with some boring human?" as their focus. No, what if Cain and Maze shared a drink and lamented over their shared parentage. Hell, what if they shared a drink and talked about how much it sucks being trapped on earth for Dad knows how long? What if Lucy and Cain spend more time bonding over their both feeling like Dad screwed them over? What if other Celestials showed up? Would it upset the new life Lucy, Amen and Maze have made for themselves? They kind of touched upon some of this, but it was always pushed aside for "OMG he's trying to tell Chloe the truth!" "OMG, Chloe almost saw his devil face!" "OMG he's mooning over Chloe!!!!" (and I mean the show, not the fans, the show itself seemed to fangirl over Lucy/Chloe. I think they found the pairing brilliant for some reason. Instead if felt like every other playboy falls for straight (comedic, not sexual) woman he works with show ever.

They had all the elements to make this something unique and different and they focused on the one aspect that made it like everything else. So disappointing.

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7 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

If they'd got the green light, it was going to be a completely different show surely?  The main cast all knowing the truth would change everything.  It could have been interesting (or not).

I don't think Dan or Ella were really in the know. They still seemed to be like Chloe thinking that Lucifer was some British eccentric talking in metaphors. Chloe had to be hit with a 2x4 to acknowledge that strange things really were afoot and she'd been ignoring them the whole time.

I can see that the show had planned the last two episodes first and tried to shoehorn the rest of the story to meet the requirements of the last two episodes. It was clumsily done however and I wonder if the season length had something to do with it and they just couldn't handle it. My worry is if they somehow do get a season 4 that their budget will be cut drastically and it will have noticeable and even worse impact on what we get to watch (but this is all speculation and wishful thinking).

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On 5/16/2018 at 9:58 AM, Pondlass1 said:

This seems to be happening a lot these days.  Writers forget that a character is the vessel  through which the audience experiences the story.  We grow attached to them.... and their foibles.  

The plot is secondary almost always.  

*slow clap. Amen. I am very character driven. I binged this show, so the dip in continuity and quality with respect to characters in season 3 hit me like a load of brimstone. 

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I was going to put this in the media thread as I normally would with tweets, but this one from D.B. Woodside is spoilery.  Looks like Amenadiel will make a return to earth in the new season!

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So predictably they cast an actress a decade younger than Tom Welling to play Cain’s mother. And we will probably see yet another love triangle, this time with Lucifer, Chloe and Eve. The show doesn’t need another new character. It needs to get away from the soap opera story lines. This sounds like just another one. Maybe Adam will turn up too, all jealous. I wonder if the writers learned anything from last season’s rating catastrophe. 

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I'd rather Adam show up, especially if they made him Maze's dad. 

We really don't need another Lucifer or Chloe love interest to keep them apart. They are the most boring will they/won't they couple I've ever seen. Continuing to keep the apart does them no favors. 

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I really want to get excited about this show again, but so far they are doing nothing to make that happen. I am actually sad Amendude is returning because I wanted him free to do another show I might actually want to watch. 

I feel like, instead of actually getting into the supernatural aspect of the story they just keep throwing in all these celestial characters instead of telling a good story. Like they are trying to appease us by saying, but we are telling the story of Cain and Eve and Mom, look at all these angelic type characters we are putting in to prop up the lamest love story ever written (though they probably think it's the greatest, which is why they have almost every character on the show reminding Lucifer that he has to be in love with Chloe because she's the female lead.)

Still not glad the show got saved. 

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I agree, Mabinogia!

Oh, look -- another love triangle. How very network-quality of you. We've only seen that idea, what, in EVERY network show -- including your own?

There's a reason this showrunner and these writers were writing for a traditional network and not for one of the cable/streaming networks pushing the envelope. Staid and boring. NOT Netflix quality.

I have little faith in this "save" unless they change the showrunner and writers and bring in people with talent.

Edited by rainsmom.
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Another love triangle. Yay, not. How can I trust the showrunners to stop dumbing down characters for the sake of soap opera when it just seems they're going to commit the exact same mistakes? 

I have the feeling they learned nothing. Didn't question the tumble in the ratings during S3 and bought their own hype; and imo didn't realize their show was saved not for was it was, but for what it used to be. 

"Vanity- definitely my favorite sin" is one of my cult movie quotes. How ironic, it seems to fit Lucifer like a glove.

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Maybe I'm too optimistic but it doesn't sound like it's going to be another love triangle. "Thorn in Lucifer's side" and "potentially dangerous enemy" don't sound very romantic.

I wish they would do something with Maze and Eve though. That way, they could bring Maze back into the actual story.

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5 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Maybe I'm too optimistic but it doesn't sound like it's going to be another love triangle. "Thorn in Lucifer's side" and "potentially dangerous enemy" don't sound very romantic.

I wish they would do something with Maze and Eve though. That way, they could bring Maze back into the actual story.

But this does: “After an eternity with Adam, she’s grown restless in her marriage and longs for a less predictable time when things were exciting. Naughty. Dangerous. She misses her hot and heavy first love…the charming rogue who tempted her so many years ago. That’s right, the devil himself…Lucifer.”  

Nothing about this character sounds interesting to me. She will probably turn into Lucifer’s enemy when he professes to her his true love for Chloe. 

Edited by Ria.
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3 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Maybe I'm too optimistic but it doesn't sound like it's going to be another love triangle. "Thorn in Lucifer's side" and "potentially dangerous enemy" don't sound very romantic.

I wish I could be as optimistic :) If not for S3, I would actually be. Hope you're right!

1 hour ago, Ria said:

Nothing about this character sounds interesting to be. She will probably turn into Lucifer’s enemy when he professes to her  his true love for Chloe. 

You just made me realize, this is exactly what I feared for Maze to be in S1. It's mostly why I wasn't a fan at first, and why I loved so much her not defining herself through Lucifer and becoming her own person over the course of the following seasons.

I do hope they don't try to garner sympathy for Eve or make Lucifer "waffle" (brackets, considering he and Chloe aren't officially a couple; but WoG implies they're a romantic "thing" of some kind) because they tried this with Lt Jackass/Chloe and it was a huge failure -imo and I guess ratings, too. Make her an unrepentant villain determined to wreak havoc from the start instead of dumbing down or vilifying veteran (and/or beloved) characters in order to prop her.

That's why and how Mom worked for me, at least.

Edited by Happy Harpy.
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Why couldn't they bring in Lilith? I'm sure the Queen of demons would be a thorn in Lucifer's side. Then we can have Maze dealing with her mother. 

Edited by Sakura12.
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5 hours ago, Ria said:

But this does: “After an eternity with Adam, she’s grown restless in her marriage and longs for a less predictable time when things were exciting. Naughty. Dangerous. She misses her hot and heavy first love…the charming rogue who tempted her so many years ago. That’s right, the devil himself…Lucifer.”  

It doesn't have to be a love triangle though. This could be her motivation but Lucifer could tell her that he's not interested from the start and she could be out for revenge from the get-go.

Of couse, that made me realize that it doesn't have to be Lucifer she turns on. It could be Chloe. I had that thought as I was going to say that I think it could be intriguing to have her and Lucifer face off. Not only would it push Chloe to the sidelines but it would probably give us some celestial stuff. However, if she goes after Chloe ... I just got a whole lot less intrigued ;-)

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 Yeah,  bringing Lillith in as a foil to both Maze and Lucifer would have been a much more interesting option than having Eve show up. 

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And why would Eve (and Adam) still be alive?  Maze (and Lilith) are demons, Lucifer and Amenadiel are angels, and Cain was cursed.

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On 8/24/2018 at 1:24 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And why would Eve (and Adam) still be alive?  Maze (and Lilith) are demons, Lucifer and Amenadiel are angels, and Cain was cursed.

In fact, the Bible says Adam was 930 years old when he died.

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Fox has been known to make demands on it shows that hurt the story, Netflix is more hands off. We shall see in the new season what the showrunners can do, and streaming all episodes might help out.

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Today the video of Season 3 shipped. 

I'm interested in the additional scenes as well as the order without the season 2 leftovers interruptions. 

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Cause what this show needs is a baby. 

Really, the are NOT making it easy to get excited about the show being saved. 

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21 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Cause what this show needs is a baby. 

Really, the are NOT making it easy to get excited about the show being saved. 

The only way a pregnancy would be tolerable is if it were that big dog that sat in the front seat that was pregnant. 

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2 minutes ago, Ria said:

The only way a pregnancy would be tolerable is if it were that big dog that sat in the front seat that was pregnant. 

Ok, puppies would be something to look forward to!

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18 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Ok, puppies would be something to look forward to!

Lucifer, Maze, Linda, Trixie and Dan with a litter of puppies would be fun. 

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8 minutes ago, Ria said:

Lucifer, Maze, Linda, Trixie and Dan with a litter of puppies would be fun. 

I want that show!!!!! But Amen has to be there too. He's too pretty not to have at least standing around in the background. 

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I wasn't upset when this show was canceled, then I was surprised it got picked up by Netflex. I thought maybe they can do more with a company that gives more freedom, make it more supernatural with more Angel's and demons or people escaping from Hell since no one has been guarding it for years. 

All spoilers point to them doing the same cliche stories that made it so boring last season. Love triangles and now babies. I think I'll be skipping this unless I hear it's better. 

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3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I wasn't upset when this show was canceled, then I was surprised it got picked up by Netflex. I thought maybe they can do more with a company that gives more freedom, make it more supernatural with more Angel's and demons or people escaping from Hell since no one has been guarding it for years. 

All spoilers point to them doing the same cliche stories that made it so boring last season. Love triangles and now babies. I think I'll be skipping this unless I hear it's better. 

EXACTLY. Same showrunner and writing staff means same tired tropes.

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I don't see where any of these characters become more interesting by adding a baby to the mix.  A real baby with  TWO parents, doing parent things.

Much less three months of morning sickness, etc.  Not a lot celestial about any thing.  Short of bringing Fran Drescher in as the Nannie, and Lurch as a butler, what the heck are they thinking?  

Trixie is old enough to be interesing.  A year of a baby, not so much.

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I'd take a baby over a love triangle any day. Hell, I'd take a baby boom over it. That's how much I hate love triangles.

Ironically, after S2 I might have been interested to see what they could do with the idea. You know, the season when it seemed they were going for tired clichés and they somehow made it work, and great, and entertaining? After Trixie, I was ready to give a lot of credit to Lucifer re:kids. For S3? Not so much, but I'll watch if they change my mind by not dumbing down women because baaaaabies, not do who's the daddy storylines etc.

Edited by Happy Harpy.
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4 hours ago, Ria said:

(it better not be Chloe carrying Pierce’s baby).

I was thinking the same thing... Maybe it's Dr Linda having Amenadiel's child? I'm really hoping that it is because I don't think it's Ella, I don't want it to be Chloe and I'm not sure I'd want a Maze pregnancy either or find it all that credible.

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Maybe nobody is pregnant.  Didn't they just say "baby" and everyone jumped to the conclusion that either Chloe or Linda are pregnant?  Maybe the "baby" belongs to someone else? An antichrist episode or something to with the priest or perhaps its a reference to Chloe's conception which we know was a miracle. Could be anything really.

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The actress who plays Linda just had a baby so she would have been pregnant while filming

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I suppose Linda having a baby (presumably with Amenadiel) would be the least of the potential evils. But I don't recall the addition of a pregnancy/baby storyline EVER improving a  show. (Well, unless you count Soap back in the 70s, but this show's premise would rule out what made that one fun.)

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22 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I suppose Linda having a baby (presumably with Amenadiel) would be the least of the potential evils. But I don't recall the addition of a pregnancy/baby storyline EVER improving a  show. (Well, unless you count Soap back in the 70s, but this show's premise would rule out what made that one fun.)

Baby storylines usually show up late in a series when the writers are out of ideas. 

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On ‎17‎.‎09‎.‎2018 at 3:35 AM, katmax said:

Maybe nobody is pregnant.  Didn't they just say "baby" and everyone jumped to the conclusion that either Chloe or Linda are pregnant? 

They said "someone is having a baby". Having a baby usually means someone is pregnant.

Edited by CheshireCat.
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Please dear Dad in Heaven let them have meant Rachael Harris who just had a baby. Please!!!!!! The last thing on Earth this show needs is someone having a baby. Unless it's a character of the week and they teased it to get us talking. 

I cannot think of any way in which any of our main characters, or the characters they add this season being pregnant is a good idea. Unless it's Ella? I think maybe she'd be the least horrible option since I don't imagine it would change the show much. Oh, maybe she can have the antichrist!

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News of a baby dropped weeks ago.  There have been no confirmations or denial from the show since?  News like this isn't just dropped without any further comments.  With respect to babies and pregancy, the character's age comes into play. Most of the actors are in their 30's or 40's. Ms. Harris just turned 50, so the storyline of a baby being brought onto the show seems a bit out of place time wise. I would have hoped that Michael Ausiello would have provided more clues by now, considering how much a baby affects a show.

Edited by Jacks-Son.
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14 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

The last thing on Earth this show needs is someone having a baby. Unless it's a character of the week and they teased it to get us talking.

I think a lot of us would agree with this sentiment.  It was apparently an unauthorised leak and Joe Henderson was upset over the fan response on twitter for something nobody had even seen yet.  It wouldn't be the first time deliberate misdirections have been supplied on episode plot contents to keep the details a surprise for viewers.  I guess its just a case of wait and see.  I am reasonably optimistic that with the short season nexflix is giving us that we won't see the bloated and strung out stories of season 3 and should have a better overall season 4.

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6 hours ago, katmax said:

I am reasonably optimistic that with the short season nexflix is giving us that we won't see the bloated and strung out stories of season 3 and should have a better overall season 4.

My problems with S3 were core elements, like the central storyline (Jackass) and the destruction of female characters and relationships. The number of episodes won't change that so I'm staying at "wait and see" -for the whole season to be out and spoiled, and then I'll decide if I watch it.

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8 hours ago, katmax said:

It was apparently an unauthorised leak and Joe Henderson was upset over the fan response on twitter for something nobody had even seen yet. 

This bothers me. Yes, we don't know what this means but fans often comment on spoilers and more often than not, they were right last season. Maybe Henderson should pay a little attention to the fan response and reflect based on it, instead of getting upset over it because they don't like what he wants to do. Holding on to what he wants to do with all his might didn't work out so well last season, did it? You'd think he would have learned from his mistakes. The show got a second chance, and he should know that if they blow it, they're not getting a third.

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16 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

This bothers me. Yes, we don't know what this means but fans often comment on spoilers and more often than not, they were right last season. Maybe Henderson should pay a little attention to the fan response and reflect based on it

For all we know, that might actually have happened.  We can only hope that we at least revert to the quality we got in S1 & S2 if nothing else.  It's just a case of wait and see and hope for the best.  If they don't do a good job with this season and get the happy viewers they need for S4 there won't be S5. I think it's as simple as that. There's a lot riding on their ability to pull the series back from the brink of death with S4.

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