S06.E01: Fallout 2017.10.12

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

How can William MySon not know or be aware that Oliver is the Arrow? Did his fear and terror of being held by Chase blind him to Ollie's suit? I know he prefers Flash to Green Arrow, but I guess the fear and thinking him to be "The Bad Man" (seriously, what 12 year old talks like that? Instead of saying the jerk who killed my mom/I blame for my mom being dead because he didn't save her) also made him forget?

He does know? 

Spoiler

A promo had him asking Oliver if he was going to be spending more time as Oliver over the "other guy" and point out how Oliver goes out and risks his life every night.

Edited by way2interested.

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18 minutes ago, way2interested said:

He does know? 

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A promo had him asking Oliver if he was going to be spending more time as Oliver over the "other guy" and point out how Oliver goes out and risks his life every night.

Thank you. I don't know how I missed that. And still,

he says "other guy?"

Come ON.

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5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thank you. I don't know how I missed that. And still,

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he says "other guy?"

Come ON.

I haven’t seen the preview

Spoiler

but are they maybe not at home? Or somewhere it’s not safe for him to say Green Arrow?

Edited by apinknightmare.

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2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I haven’t seen the preview

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but are they maybe not at home?

Neither have I. Just based on what @way2interested posted. And okay, I can accept it if

 

they're not at home and in public where anyone can hear

But I think what's irking me is the dialogue the writers are giving him. It's akin to a tween using "baby talk."

Edited by GHScorpiosRule.

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5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thank you. I don't know how I missed that. And still,

  Hide contents

he says "other guy?"

Come ON.

It's metaphorical, like how Oliver described himself with a gesture of a hood and how Felicity described the GA with "grr" Not like the stupid "bad man" stuff.

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10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thank you. I don't know how I missed that. And still,

  Hide contents

he says "other guy?"

Come ON.

I took it as a good thing. It means the kid won't blab about who his father is.

But it's now a moot point anyways because Oliver has just been outed lol

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Maybe William doesn't want to admit to himself that his father is the Green Arrow.  It's cool knowing a superhero ... until it gets you kidnapped and your mother killed.

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After last season's cliff-hanger ending, we're given a pretty awful opener without any satisfactory explanations of how almost everyone made it off the island with nary a scratch. I've wanted to delete this show from my DVR for a couple of seasons and after watching that, it might just happen.

First, they saddle Oliver with a kid. Then they remove Thea, arguably my favorite character and someone who keeps Oliver grounded. They give us way too much newbie "action" - I'm already sick of Dinah & the weirdness between her and Diggle is just too much. Then they rehash this awful Laurel/EvilLaurel/Black Canary crap. Can someone just kill her? Then we have to watch even more rehashing of Quentin and his drinking and his guilt over his daughters. Ugh. And WHY do the writers keep waffling on this "Oliver doesn't kill people" anymore theme? He went through a huge identity crisis and decided no more killing, last season he has another identity crisis thinking he is "just a killer" and now in the season opener we see him and Rene shooting and killing galore. And WHY does Rene get a free killin'-people pass? Him shooting people is just so out of place in a comic book TV show - why wouldn't all of them just carry guns and be done with it? And seriously, Samantha's death was outright laughable. You're really gonna give us this stupid, "I can't leave without William!" shtick, runs back (where? who knows...), manages to get mortally wounded and then asks Oliver to watch over William with her dying breath? Really? Slade decides to leave everyone and "fend for himself" and then magically shows up later to help them get off the island? Then he becomes a loving & caring guy who only wants to be reunited with his kid? And Curtis...who could've been a cool & nerdy character interacting with Felicity, but instead you give him a super stupid identity along with a super stupid name. 

The show takes away two cool sidekicks (Thea & the mummy-guy) and gives us annoying, recycled Black Canary and a guy whose super power is to shoot people. We have to suffer through Quentin, yet they take Moira & Thea away. They give us Laurel back instead of Sarah. They give us a kid that doesn't belong to any woman we care about (in fact, I kind of actively dislike her). They promise us no more inane flashbacks and yet explain away the entire last season finale with flashbacks. 

/Sigh

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16 minutes ago, Lunula said:

And Curtis...who could've been a cool & nerdy character interacting with Felicity, but instead you give him a super stupid identity along with a super stupid name. 

Because comics...

I could write an essay on how the comics harmed this show more than helped it 

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On 10/14/2017 at 10:38 PM, Jacks-Son said:

Felicity always wins style point because she's flat out gorgeous and looks good in whatever she wears.

On a trivial point, why does Oliver call William "Buddy"? It's seems like a horrible way to speak to your son. It reminds me of John Crichton (Ben Browder) on "Farscape" speaking to his hologram son by saying, "Hey Buuuddy". I've got three sons, and five grandsons and I've NEVER called any of them "Buddy".  You call your dog, "Buddy".  Oliver should just say "Son", or "William" or another affectionate name, but "Buddy" is not an affectionate name. It's a stupid name to call your own son.  Sorry, /rant

Emily Bett Rickards could make full manure sacks fashionable.

The "Buddy" thing actually works for me because I can easily believe that Oliver is clueless enough about parenting (given how he was raised) to conflate raising a child with owning a pet.

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10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

How can William MySon not know or be aware that Oliver is the Arrow? Did his fear and terror of being held by Chase blind him to Ollie's suit? I know he prefers Flash to Green Arrow, but I guess the fear and thinking him to be "The Bad Man" (seriously, what 12 year old talks like that? Instead of saying the jerk who killed my mom/I blame for my mom being dead because he didn't save her) also made him forget?

I think the "Bad man" line was near-universally derided.  I don't hate what they were trying to reveal, that Willaim saw Oliver as the real villain, but they did it all wrong.  They were already writing him as a sullen preteen.  I'm not sure why they even went with the nightmare reveal.  Just let him yell at Oliver and flat out say it. 

At the very least it would have saved us from a kid that kept going to bed at dinner time and before Oliver has even left to attend the Police Academy Graduation Ceremony.  How were they not concerned about severe depression at that point?

And if William is upset that Oliver is the real bad man that got his mom killed, how was Oliver's promise to take care of him no matter what the right step to make Willaim agree to spend bonding time with him?  It's reassuring him for an issue not on the table.  Very confusing writing.   I wonder how many rewrites this mish mash of an episode went through

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Where are Samanthas parent's? I know they are goin to pretend they don't exisy but still...

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Oliver mentioned that William would be better off with them, so I assume they'll show up when the show wants a) more drama with William, or b) to ship him off.

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The EPs won't introduce William's grandparents until they figure out what (Easter egg) retired superhero identities to give them. ;)

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11 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:
  1. I think the "Bad man" line was near-universally derided.  I don't hate what they were trying to reveal, that Willaim saw Oliver as the real villain, but they did it all wrong.  They were already writing him as a sullen preteen.  I'm not sure why they even went with the nightmare reveal.  Just let him yell at Oliver and flat out say it. 
  2. At the very least it would have saved us from a kid that kept going to bed at dinner time and before Oliver has even left to attend the Police Academy Graduation Ceremony.  How were they not concerned about severe depression at that point?
  3. And if William is upset that Oliver is the real bad man that got his mom killed, how was Oliver's promise to take care of him no matter what the right step to make Willaim agree to spend bonding time with him?  It's reassuring him for an issue not on the table.  Very confusing writing.   I wonder how many rewrites this mish mash of an episode went through

1. Yeah, instead of refusing to look Oliver in the face, if he thinks Oliver as the "Bad Man" (ugh, not enough eye rolls for that line), I wished he would have just lashed out and screamed "you killed my mom!" or you didn't save her after you promised you would, or any rendition of that.

2. Not concerned at all. Again, why is William?

3.  Your guess is as good as mine. But for me, out of sight, out of mind. It was such a clunker of an episode. I actually expected better and was looking forward to it. More Fool, Me.

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I did not like the "bad man" line but I also did not see it the way you all are describing it. I thought it made sense because to me he was saying what Prometheus had been telling him while being held captive, "Oliver/GA, your father wants nothing to do with you and is a bad man." If I was a pre-teen and I was subjected to who knows what other horrible things were said to me, I might just think that once I found out I had been kidnapped twice due to the GA being my father and is responsible for the death of  my mother that he is a Bad Man. Of course I would and I would also probably fear him.

Edited by BunsenBurner. Reason: I didn't write this well but I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

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3 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I thought it made sense because to me he was saying what Prometheus had been telling him while being held captive, "Oliver/GA, your father wants nothing to do with you and is a bad man."

It's not a bad thought the only problem is we had nothing to suggest that this is what Prometheus did. 

 

3 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I did not like the "bad man" line but I also did not see it the way you all are describing it. I thought it made sense because to me he was saying what Prometheus had been telling him while being held captive, "Oliver/GA, your father wants nothing to do with you and is a bad man." If I was a pre-teen and I was subjected to who knows what other horrible things were said to me, I might just think that once I found out I had been kidnapped twice due to the GA being my father and is responsible for the death of  my mother that he is a Bad Man. Of course I would and I would also probably fear him.

I agree that it makes sense for Willaim to blame Oliver, but if I really feared him to the point it reduced me to stammering, I wouldn't tell the dude I'm afraid of that I was afraid of him.  I'd let him think we were hunky dory!  I have to think that William isn't afraid of Oliver since he was willing to answer Oliver's question when he could have EASILY just said Chase, so how he reveals the Bad Man thing still doesn't work for me.  

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21 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's not a bad thought the only problem is we had nothing to suggest that this is what Prometheus did. 

 

I agree that it makes sense for Willaim to blame Oliver, but if I really feared him to the point it reduced me to stammering, I wouldn't tell the dude I'm afraid of that I was afraid of him.  I'd let him think we were hunky dory!  I have to think that William isn't afraid of Oliver since he was willing to answer Oliver's question when he could have EASILY just said Chase, so how he reveals the Bad Man thing still doesn't work for me.  

Psychological abuse especially during a kidnapping has got to have an effect on William. He could also have suffered from Stockholm Syndrome. It was Chase, he killed his own wife, I wouldn't put anything past him to try and destroy any hope of William ever being happy that Oliver is his father. However he has been there for  5 months and he has to see that everyone is trying to be nice to him. There will be doubt in his mind until Oliver and he come to that 'ah ha' moment and realize that they only have each other.

It doesn't really matter, I just think Chase made himself be the good guy and Oliver the bad guy.

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In a recent Culturess interview, James Bamford talked about shooting 601...

Quote

So, I watched the season 6 premiere, “Fallout,” and wanted to ask you a couple questions about directing the episode. First, the lighting of the episode was striking. Because of how Oliver operates, a lot of Arrow takes place at night or in dark interiors. How do you ensure each scene is lit so it’s realistic but viewers can still tell what’s going on?

I work very hard with our cinematographers to create a look that is unique… Use of primary colors and use of shadow [and] contrast to show the viewer only what we want them to see, while allowing for depth… Arrow’s lighting is deep in its soul as one of the characters of the show.
*  *  *
Similarly, the cinematography has a fluidity that contrasts from the use of close-ups and rapid editing that’s so common in action filmmaking nowadays. Is it an active decision to deviate from the norm? How do you figure out a style that works for you?

If I have a personal “style”, it’s “flow”. I want the episode to flow from scene to scene seamlessly, and within a scene the editing shouldn’t be noticeable or shocking to the eye, unless it’s called for by the nature of the content. I want the visuals to breath and cut down on the claustrophobic feel that television sometimes has. The use of wide shots and quite often longer takes… is my way of forcing the audience into our environment. Cutting to close ups immediately takes the ride [in] a different direction and, in my opinion, is a very antiquated… style.

Although all the action scenes were excellent, the opening fight really stood out to me. What did you hope to achieve with that sequence in terms of storytelling? How did you approach designing and filming it?

As some know, our broadcast time for an episode is somewhere [around] 42 minutes. I try to design the action to not only service the characters and story, but fit… within the episode… If my memory serves, my director’s cut of the episode was about [six-and-a-half] minutes over broadcast time. Some directors find themselves in a position of being 10-15 minutes over the time allotted. Imagine having to go through the episode and drop several minutes of beautifully shot, painstaking designed minutes of action or dialogue. That is one of the hardest jobs for the editor and producers, cutting the episode to fit in the time slot and still keep the director’s vision, design, intent. I can tell you that the opening fight portion in the first episode of season 6 was actually cut in half from the originally shot/edited action for time purposes…

The main challenge while designing this sequence was finding an appropriate location. When I saw the old, abandoned ferry, I fell in love. What better place for an evil mastermind to launch his missile on Star City from? When I first read the script, another word in my visual Rolodex popped up: drone. The opening and closing shots in this scene had to be shot over water and with a drone operated camera. Fortunately, Vancouver is home to some of the most talented drone pilots in the world.

The visuals for Green Arrow’s entrance out of the water also came very clear to me on my first script-reading, although the script originally had him arriving by parachute. For some reason, I kept seeing a launch from the depths of the ocean up onto the deck. That and an opening hand-to-hand fight… were the first visuals I got to work designing, discussing with the creative team. The stunt department did a fabulous job of bringing these ideas to life for us with countless discussions, surveys, and rehearsal time. I’m very proud of the end result and happy you enjoyed it all.

On a less technical level, what is your favorite moment from the episode? It can be something you enjoyed filming or something you think turned out really well in the finished product.

I really love Green Arrow’s entrance in the opening scene, along with the bridge sequence battling Black Siren and saving Wild Dog. A lot of time and lack of sleep went into those chunks of action. In addition, the character moments throughout the episode were a lot of fun to play with, as we follow each individual’s path picking up from where we left them in season 5. Discovering new strengths and weaknesses on all accounts sets up the rest of the season in a big way.

Edited by tv echo.

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If I have a personal “style”, it’s “flow”. I want the episode to flow from scene to scene seamlessly, and within a scene the editing shouldn’t be noticeable or shocking to the eye, unless it’s called for by the nature of the content. I want the visuals to breath and cut down on the claustrophobic feel that television sometimes has. The use of wide shots and quite often longer takes… is my way of forcing the audience into our environment. Cutting to close ups immediately takes the ride [in] a different direction and, in my opinion, is a very antiquated… style.

(head in hands)

Where to begin? 

First and foremost: Arrow is a vigilante show relying on suspense.  A claustrophobic feel is one way of delivering said suspense. (Bonus! It can be used to hide your set problems!)

Second, the reason why the rest of the directors on Arrow/Flash film medium/long, especially with the action shots, is because they recognize that they don't have the correct camera for wide shots.  And yeah, there's a few workarounds for this, but not many. 

Third....yes, yes, we can all agree that cutting to closeups has been a standard part of film since about 1914, so I guess you could call it antiquated, but film/TV continues to use it because it's a recognized shortcut for drawing audiences into an environment.

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I need a director or a film student to write a rebuttal to James Bamford ... and send it to the CW, Berlandti and WB offices, stat. Before he gives me vertigo. 

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4 hours ago, tv echo said:

I really love Green Arrow’s entrance in the opening scene, along with the bridge sequence battling Black Siren and saving Wild Dog. A lot of time and lack of sleep went into those chunks of action. In addition, the character moments throughout the episode were a lot of fun to play with, as we follow each individual’s path picking up from where we left them in season 5. Discovering new strengths and weaknesses on all accounts sets up the rest of the season in a big way.

He should have put more time and lack of sleep into the character moments for anyone not called Dinah, Oliver, Diggle or Quentin.  "Strengths and weaknesses on all accounts"?  Give me a break.

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Just seeing the couple of sneak peeks for 602 proved how bad Bamford is at directing/editing. I mean, I knew it already but the increase in quality is pretty eye-opening, IMO.

Edited by Angel12d.

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Omg, I just got a chance to watch this episode and that scene of Dinah meandering through Oliver's speech was so bizarre (and also really rude, I mean I hate Oliver's speeches too, girl, but have some manners). 

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20 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Omg, I just got a chance to watch this episode and that scene of Dinah meandering through Oliver's speech was so bizarre (and also really rude, I mean I hate Oliver's speeches too, girl, but have some manners). 

I think it's supposed to show her checking the area for threats. But yeah, it just came across as her kinda walking in a park under the light of the moon. It was weird.

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On 13/10/2017 at 1:09 PM, Angel12d said:

KC's acting was probably the worst it's been and I thought she was usually better at playing villain. IDK what happened there. Her sidekicks were also terrible actors which probably didn't help. The weird cheesy music whenever she entered was bad, too. Yikes.

That first scene in the police station, I actually said "God, that woman is even worse an actor than KC" and then it was KC and I was even less impressed with her acting than before.

On 13/10/2017 at 1:21 PM, tennisgurl said:

Wow, after that big "cliffhanger" ending, they really just settled who all was alive right away, didn't they? I mean, I knew pretty much everyone but Samantha would be fine, but still. They couldn't off any main character? Not even Rene or Curtis? Even Thea is just in a coma. 

I hate cliffhangers as it is without them acting in the next episode like that cliffhanger doesn't matter. They must have spend three seconds on it. At least the S1 earthquake was played for some genuine emotion and consequences. This was just like, "oh, the island blew up but that doesn't really matter, let's just go straight back to the town". Really bad, even for this show. 

On 13/10/2017 at 1:46 PM, tennisgurl said:

Samantha: "Oh my, I am dead but not too dead to wander over and say some dramatic last words and bitch more at my ex" *flops over dead* 

LOL. At least she's dead but now it means we have a season of a petulant tween and that's televisual hell as far as I'm concerned. 

On 14/10/2017 at 6:09 AM, ComicFan777 said:

From Felicity's:
"I know we talked about it and that he's getting used to me and it might be a little weird to...I mean, confusing, right, for him...for us...for me...for you."

I take it as Oliver and Felicity are dating, but they are keeping it low-key and haven't really officially announced it to William yet because he is still settling in.

I interpreted this scene the same way but I still thought was weird. Why would Myson care if the Dad he doesn't know has a girlfriend he also doesn't know? It's not like his Mum started dating his Dad again. Oliver having a girlfriend like Felicity could only be a good thing in terms of his relationship with his son. As she said, she'd make a good buffer. I didn't understand this at all.

On 28/10/2017 at 11:49 AM, leopardprint said:

Omg, I just got a chance to watch this episode and that scene of Dinah meandering through Oliver's speech was so bizarre (and also really rude, I mean I hate Oliver's speeches too, girl, but have some manners). 

I didn't find this episode as Dinah heavy as other people did. But I thought that scene was really badly blocked. Oliver's making this inspirational speech about how Starling is safe again and one of his police officers is striding around clearly looking for an imminent threat. They may as well have put a sign on her head going, "NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE". But then the episode as a whole was badly directed in exactly this way. Arrow's always been anvilicious but this was particularly bad.

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On 11/9/2017 at 4:16 AM, AudienceofOne said:

But then the episode as a whole was badly directed in exactly this way. Arrow's always been anvilicious but this was particularly bad.

Bam-Bam strikes again.  I wish I could understand why they think he's such a good director other than that he's a member of the Old Boys Club.  (They gave him the cross-over episodes this year too.)

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13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I wish I could understand why they think he's such a good director other than that he's a member of the Old Boys Club.

To borrow a friend's line, "Save us from mediocre white men."

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