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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Imagine if Boatsexbaby and Friki both decided to fleak to go all out for the last season but they do have some legit info mixed in with info that is HBO's fake leaks 

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3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

The general idea is that age won't be a factor when it comes to who rules in Westeros. GRRM would make 5 year old Rickon work if he has to.

I think he said, when he couldn't make the 5 yr gap work, "well if a 12 yo has to save the world so be it."

ETA: Didn't see Eyes High statement.

Edited by GrailKing.
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I think we have to remember that things may remain fluid while they are filming. D&D have mentioned that they are still writing the scene as the scene is being filmed because things can change. Italica is an archaeological site and they maybe limited as to what  can be filmed there. Friki talks about Unsullied extras coming with haircuts etc. prepared to fight but then only a couple of them being used to guard Tyrion. I doubt there is some big cover up by HBO using extras to fool people - maybe things are changing based on the set up they have in Italica. Maybe they originally planned to film some action scenes, ended up only rehearsing them and filmed the actual fight on the KL set in Belfast with Kit, Jacob and Unsullied. It's very hard to speculate or predict what's going on based on vague information given by both BoatsexBaby and Friki given that their information keeps changing from time to time.

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I give up with trying to work out which leakers might be legit lol!

In regards to Dany possibly being portrayed as a tyrant in s8, the show has set it up so that Jon is the main male hero and moral authority. If he approves of Dany’s actions then she is good, and if he disapproves then she is bad. If the Tyrion leaks are legit then it sounds like Davos and the rest of the Starks judge Tyrion as guilty of some kind of treason. In this case it would appear the decision to execute Tyrion would be something Jon would support, therefore the show is likely to portray it as just and right. Of course some Tyrion fans might hate Dany if she did execute him because he’s their fave, but it seems like Jon and the Starks etc would probably get the same hate.

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6 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

 Of course some Tyrion fans might hate Dany if she did execute him because he’s their fave, but it seems like Jon and the Starks etc would probably get the same hate.

No, because as evidenced by discussions on this very thread, Jon and the Starks don't get the same hate for doing the very same things that Dany does. Dany is constantly criticized for her violence and associated with tyranny and madness for her actions. While what Jon and the Starks do are justified no matter what.

Dany fights the Lannisters for her birth right? She's a tyrant

Jon and Sansa fight the Boltons for their birth right? Totally justfied

Dany executes traitors refusing to bend the knee by dragon fire? She's the mad queen.

Sansa executes traitors by feeding them to hungry dogs? justified. Sansa wanting to kick children from their homes after they bend the knee because their parents were traitors? Justified. And Sophie Turner describes Sansa as a 'kind young woman'! lol

So, no. Even if Jon and the Starks are involved in what happens to Tyrion, I expect Dany to get the brunt of the hate if she does indeed kill Tyrion.

Regarding all the remaining Starks surviving the series as endgame leaders because it's supposed to be a 'Time for Wolves', Sophie's tattoo comes to mind: The Pack survives. But she also had this to say about it:

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"That would be terrible, if I got the ending tattooed on my body, just before the last season came out," she said. "That would be so stupid."

So, either she did give away the ending with the tattoo or she did something terrible and stupid - in her own words.

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When it's subtle, it can be discounted but when it's obvious then it's just easy to see

 

They are actors.  

And if it is easy to see then it's because they meant you to see it.

Misdirection happens many different ways. 

.

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9 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Well GRRM, did say a few did figure out the end game, I think as far back as forums began.

I myself said I think SR lives and the Starks could end up with the North, someone in the East, West South and throne assuming they all lived.

Poorquentyn is one of the more prominent book fans (like Bryndenbfish and a few others), and I think Poorquentyn's endgame prediction is that Jon, Dany and Tyrion team up and die saving the world, leaving the others to pick up the pieces, but I never saw that translated into a Bran/Sansa/Arya ruling triumvirate that I can recall.

I have seen theories that it's a "Time for Wolves" because Starks wind up in power in various corners of the 7K: Jon (not a Stark, I know) on the throne, Bran at Winterfell, Arya in the Stormlands with Gendry, Sansa in the Vale with Robin or in the Riverlands, etc.

9 hours ago, anamika said:

I doubt there is some big cover up by HBO using extras to fool people

And yet that is what Friki has claimed to be the case, isn't it? That everything in Seville was part of an elaborate conspiracy intended to fool people, up to the point of leaving the lights on overnight to fool people into thinking that they were filming? (I wonder how HBO would feel about that particular expense.)

Long before Friki provided his information, I had said that the presence of Sansa and Gendry at the Dragonpit--Gendry in particular--given their absence from all the KL exterior scenes made no sense to me, especially Gendry's. The Dragonpit scene and KL exterior scenes shot in May and June are not simultaneous, since Arya and Davos are also at the Dragonpit, and the characters can't be in two places at once.

So if Friki is correct that Joe lied about filming his last scenes in Seville as part of an elaborate deception, I don't see why Sophie couldn't also be lying as part of an elaborate deception, with the deception being that both Sansa and Gendry are already dead.

Edited by Eyes High.
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If they were really shooting set up for Tyrion's death in Dragonpit I could see big cover up by HBO using extras to fool people. This is the biggest twist of S8, maybe of the whole show, they will do everything to hide it. 

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If HBO was going so far as to use fake extras and leave lights on to try and fool people, wouldn't it have been easier just to film the whole trial/death thing in their normal studio to ensure secrecy?  I guess if D&D were attached to the dragon pit maybe not, although could they use VFX magic to shoot scenes inside and "photoshop" them to the dragon pit? Maybe the whole Seville thing was a fakeout and none of the scenes were real lol.

The most convincing reason I have seen for the alleged Tyrion betrayal is the "rule of three" theory, which people have been bringing up since Friki's leaks.  Tyrion previously being tried for two crimes he was innocent of, and then having a third trial for crimes he is actually guilty of does seem kind of GoT-ish.

47 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I have seen theories that it's a "Time for Wolves" because Starks wind up in power in various corners of the 7K: Jon (not a Stark, I know) on the throne, Bran at Winterfell, Arya in the Stormlands with Gendry, Sansa in the Vale with Robin or in the Riverlands, etc.

This could be a possibility.  For Bran's sake, I would be cool with him losing his 3ER emotionless zombie persona and reverting back to his usual self.  The poor kid didn't want to be stuck in a tree for life and living out the rest of his days in that zombie state seems just as bad.  Plus, Bran was pretty damn good as Lord of Winterfell back when he was a tiny kiddo in the early seasons.

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9 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

If HBO was going so far as to use fake extras and leave lights on to try and fool people, wouldn't it have been easier just to film the whole trial/death thing in their normal studio to ensure secrecy?

Yeah, but that could maybe affect quality of the scene. Can you imagine Ned's death in closed studio? And it seems that Red Keep is gone. Sept is gone already. Dragonpit is the only location left in KL. 

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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Long before Friki provided his information, I had said that the presence of Sansa and Gendry at the Dragonpit--Gendry in particular--given their absence from all the KL exterior scenes made no sense to me, especially Gendry's. The Dragonpit scene and KL exterior scenes shot in May and June are not simultaneous, since Arya and Davos are also at the Dragonpit, and the characters can't be in two places at once.

But Kit was filming on the KL set in Belfast while Maisie, Liam and Peter were in Seville. So while I am sure that Maisie, Kit and Peter play big roles in the KL battle, I don't think each of them should necessarily be present on the KL set all the time for filming. Maybe they were doing the KL exterior scene with Jon as the focus in Belfast while Maisie and Peter where shooting different KL exterior scenes in Seville.

I agree and don't think that Sansa and Gendry are part of the KL battle.

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

So if Friki is correct that Joe lied about filming his last scenes in Seville as part of an elaborate deception, I don't see why Sophie couldn't also be lying as part of an elaborate deception, with the deception being that both Sansa and Gendry are already dead.

I have no doubt Sophie filmed in Seville. Her tweet about her filming there confirms this. I am a bit doubtful about Joe because he seem to be talking about wrapping up on set with a few other actors who cried when their turn came up for dialogue. I can't think of who in Seville he was talking about.

If this Tyrion leak is true, then I have three personal theories on the trial  at the dragonpit:

1. Sansa, Robin, Edmure, yara, Bran, Arya, Sam, Davos, Gendry etc. are at a big meeting in the dragonpit - similar to season 7 finale - and they are presiding over Tyrion's trial.  Not sure what Tom and Waif are doing there though.

2. If Friki is absolutely right about who was there, then Sansa, Robin Brienne/ Arya, Bran, Sam and Davos are presiding over Tyrion's trial - the Starks and their closest relatives/friends decide Tyrion's guilt.

3. The only characters who are actually at Tyrion's trial are Bran and Sam! Everyone else is only going to feature in scenes described by Bran and featuring Tyrion.

26 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

  For Bran's sake, I would be cool with him losing his 3ER emotionless zombie persona and reverting back to his usual self.

This is definitely happening next season. We suddenly got zombie Bran last season because Sansa could not be Lady of Winterfell with Bran there. Now that it looks like Sansa has met up again with her true love SweetRobin and will be moving off to the Vale, Bran can resume being Bran - as he was at the end of season 6. 

Isaac seems to like the ending as does Maisie. They both said they liked it, but that it would be divisive. I think Bran will have more to do next season than monotonously intone about the past, present and future. And I need to see an emotional Bran for his battle against the NK/AOTD  - the Bran of season 6 is fine.

Edited by anamika.
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46 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

If HBO was going so far as to use fake extras and leave lights on to try and fool people, wouldn't it have been easier just to film the whole trial/death thing in their normal studio to ensure secrecy?

Yeah, they could have just shot the site with cameras to duplicate the Dragonpit and shot the whole thing in the Paint Hall studio in Belfast if it was that important. That's what they did with the lake scene--shot it in a quarry and used VFX and camera shots to make it look like Iceland--so why not here? It also makes no sense that they would try to fool people into thinking they were filming at night, when no one assumed that they were going to film at night in the first place.

I remember someone (not /BoatsexBaby) claiming way back around when filming was taking place that what was filmed the Thursday they were there was Sansa and Tyrion's actors running around in the amphitheatre with a smoke machine being used. /BoatsexBaby said that Sophie and Peter's stand-ins/doubles/whatever arrived at and left the set at the same time that Thursday, so it's possible that there's something to it, but it sure doesn't sound like what Friki is describing. 

27 minutes ago, anamika said:

But Kit was filming on the KL set in Belfast while Maisie, Liam and Peter were in Seville. So while I am sure that Maisie, Kit and Peter play big roles in the KL battle, I don't think each of them should necessarily be present on the KL set all the time for filming.

Whatever Kit, Liam, Maisie and Peter were filming in Belfast in May, June and I guess July, we know that Sophie and Joe weren't a part of it.

It's been said that in previous seasons Sophie knocked out her scenes pretty quickly and filmed much less than other actors with little effect overall on her screen time, but unless she spends most of Season 8 locked in a closet, I'm having trouble with how little Sophie seems to have filmed for Season 8.

Sophie was away from filming for most of February, all of March, most of April, all of May save four filming days in Seville (assuming she really did film in Seville), and all of June and July. Filming went for 10 months, and she skipped at least half of them. 

Meanwhile, Kit and Maisie filmed continuously for pretty much the whole 10 months, and Kit, Maisie, Liam and Peter were all filming continuously for the last three months of filming. It wasn't just action or combat scenes, either (the "grieving man" scene was supposed to be filmed the week of June 18th). So what gives?

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I have no doubt Sophie filmed in Seville. Her tweet about her filming there confirms this. 

It doesn't confirm anything, since it's just her word, just as Joe's statements about his last scenes were his word; it doesn't confirm anything if she's lying just as Friki claims Joe is. If Joe lied to the press multiple times about what he did in Seville, there's no reason that Sophie couldn't have lied, too.

Edited by Eyes High.
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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

It doesn't confirm anything, since it's just her word, just as Joe's statements about his last scenes were his word; it doesn't confirm anything if she's lying just as Friki claims Joe is. If Joe lied to the press multiple times about what he did in Seville, there's no reason that Sophie couldn't have lied, too.

She made an emotional tweet on their last day of filming, skipped dinner with the rest of the cast, skipped meeting with and taking pictures with the fans unlike the rest of the cast. Whatever happened in Seville was a big event for Sophie - and if she says that she wrapped the entire series there, then I believe her.  That's like the end of one chapter in her life. Must be momentous.

While she was tweeting this, Maisie was tweeting something about her friend's marathon. So I doubt it had much to do with the content of the scenes they shot. Unless, only Sophie was being sad about Tyrion having a trial.

I don't have anything similar for Joe who seemed to be having a fun time when he was pictured with fans.

Edited by anamika.
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3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So if Friki is correct that Joe lied about filming his last scenes in Seville as part of an elaborate deception

 

Seriously? People believe that?

Listen, that HBO used the couple of interns they have on their payroll anyway to check internet boards, and gave them some fleaks to flood said boards, I believe 100%. I'd even bet on it. And with tight big huge NDAs, that's all they needed to do.

That GoT producers used some pre-existing cirscumstances (Emilia's promotion for Solo) to throw the fandom into a loop knowing the filming in Spain would be scrutinized, I believe easily.

That they invited a couple of actors in Seville who didn't film for the show, but for a documentary, why not. Could be seen as a waste for budget but they used it for PR, I guess it balanced the cost.

That actors can be deliberately misleading or even lie about the plot by sticking to Word of God (like Maisie about Jon Snow) meaning not spoiling it for Unsullied or casual viewers, of course.

Anything else? Not believable at all.

Joe Dempsie wrapped filming the week before May 26th. It fits the set sightings and where he actually was (instagram). Nothing came to contradict it, like a sighting anywhere near a set in late May (he was in the US), June or July. For all we know the closest he was to the GoT cast and crew was at Kit's wedding. Nobody doubted he told the truth back then, nobody even cared much because Emilia wasn't in Seville Dany Dies for Suuure and Kit didn't film Jon Snow is so deeed and this was the big story -and it's normal. Joe's wrapping filming was a detail, and it only became an important one after Friki claimed otherwise. Friki and/or his source either made a mistake, have incomplete info, or lie. I have no idea which option is the right one. It doesn't mean that his other info is entirely wrong. But the level of fact-bending and accusing actors of lying about ridiculous details in order to confirm, infirm or justify becomes quite too much at this point, imo.

You'll notice that other end of filming dates (including those Joe said wrapped at the same time as he did, while not naming them) have been shroudded in mystery for characters like Podrick, Tormund, Yara, Varys etc. Meaning those believed as most likely to die. Even Lena's wrapping date wasn't disclosed AFAIK, and I'd bet it's because many casual viewers expect Cersei to die early in the season, before the battle against the NK.

Finally and once again, Lena and Sophie wrapped filming very early last season and their characters didn't die, and it isn't confirmed that whatever was filmed in Italica was for the epilogue. The only concrete fact that can be inferred, is that characters seen in the Dragonpit or KL sets didn't die during the battle of WF. For the others, it doesn't even give some probability or likeliness, there's nothing more than a question mark.

Edited by Happy Harpy.
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 I do agree that Sophie seems to not have filmed much. Maybe she does not need to if her scenes are just standing around in the studio talking to others. But I think this time around, even non-combatants like Isaac and John Bradley have filmed more or been spotted more in Belfast than Sophie has. Issac, Gwen and NCW were in Belfast at the same time in June.  Emilia, Kit, Nathalie and possibly Maisie were also in Belfast around the same time. I don't think it was just all KL battle scenes that they were filming.

NCW seems to have filmed quite a bit this time and I think a stunt guy mentioned that he and Maisie were the best fighters. I think that's why he's so pleased with this season. Jaime finally gets a season that's about him and not Cersei. 

Pretty much most of the other characters have a big story for next season - We need to find out what GRRM has planned for Arya other than being a FM killer, what Bran is going to do with the NK, how Jon will deal with his parentage, how Dany will deal with Jon's parentage, their relationship, how Tyrion deals with his family, his love for Dany, how bookish Sam deals with Jon/Dany and helps Bran etc.

Sansa really does not have much of a story anymore - LF was her story and with him gone, she is mostly going to be the 'empowered true leader of WF' and is 'steely, strong, manipulative, intelligent and kind'. She's peak Sansa - no flaws detected, no more character development required. Once the whole pesky 'Jon bending the knee' business is done with, she will be busy giving armor making instructions, hoarding grain and sitting in front of a table with lots of papers on it looking busy. It does not require a lot of time to film these scenes. Sophie's limited filming time therefore makes sense. She probably popped up in Seville to be at Tyrion's trial with the rest of the Starks. And then that's a wrap.

Edited by anamika.
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12 hours ago, anamika said:

Sansa executes traitors by feeding them to hungry dogs? justified. Sansa wanting to kick children from their homes after they bend the knee because their parents were traitors? Justified. And Sophie Turner describes Sansa as a 'kind young woman'! lol

Sansa suggested that course of action BEFORE those houses bent the knee to Jon, which under normal times would be a proper punishment.

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12 hours ago, anamika said:

So, either she did give away the ending with the tattoo or she did something terrible and stupid - in her own words.

I don't think she gave away anything, IIRC, it was the tattoo artist that outed the ink first, at least that's how I saw it.

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1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Anything else? Not believable at all.

Joe Dempsie wrapped filming the week before May 26th. It fits the set sightings and where he actually was (instagram). Nothing came to contradict it, like a sighting anywhere near a set in late May (he was in the US), June or July. For all we know the closest he was to the GoT cast and crew was at Kit's wedding. Nobody doubted he told the truth back then, nobody even cared much because Emilia wasn't in Seville Dany Dies for Suuure and Kit didn't film Jon Snow is so deeed and this was the big story -and it's normal. Joe's wrapping filming was a detail, and it only became an important one after Friki claimed otherwise. Friki and/or his source either made a mistake, have incomplete info, or lie. I have no idea which option is the right one. It doesn't mean that his other info is entirely wrong. But the level of fact-bending and accusing actors of lying about ridiculous details in order to confirm, infirm or justify becomes quite too much at this point, imo.

I agree. The simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true (when you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras), and the simplest explanation for Joe's statements to the media and his presence in Seville is not that it was all part of an elaborate coverup to fool people into thinking that what was being filmed wasn't Tyrion's trial. 

1 hour ago, anamika said:

But I think this time around, even non-combatants like Isaac and John Bradley have filmed more or been spotted more in Belfast than Sophie has. Issac, Gwen and NCW were in Belfast at the same time in June. Emilia, Kit, Nathalie and possibly Maisie were also in Belfast around the same time. I don't think it was just all KL battle scenes that they were filming.

We know it wasn't (the "grieving man" scene, e.g.).

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Sansa really does not have much of a story anymore - LF was her story and with him gone, she is mostly going to be the 'empowered true leader of WF' and is 'steely, strong, manipulative, intelligent and kind'. She's peak Sansa - no flaws detected, no more character development required. Once the whole pesky 'Jon bending the knee' business is done with, she will be busy giving armor making instructions, hoarding grain and sitting in front of a table with lots of papers on it looking busy. It does not require a lot of time to film these scenes. 

Hee. But yes, good point. Sansa has pretty much run out of story. Sophie described her as the audience first seeing her (in 8x01, I assume) really having come into her own and accepted her destiny as the Lady of Winterfell, blah blah blah. It may well be that with Sansa's arc "taken care of," the focus will shift to Arya, Sam, Bran, etc.

I watched part of the discussion with Bryan Cogman linked upthread about his writing process, writing 7x02, etc., and based on what he said about the accelerated pacing of S7 now that they're barreling towards the end, I would not expect to see any conversations between long-separated reunited characters where they discuss everything that has happened. My assumption is that all of those conversations will be presumed to have happened offscreen...with the main exception being Bran and Sam learning that Jon is a legit Targ.

Edited by Eyes High.
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3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Hee. But yes, good point. Sansa has pretty much run out of story. Sophie described her as the audience first seeing her (in 8x01, I assume) really having come into her own and accepted her destiny as the Lady of Winterfell, blah blah blah. It may well be that with Sansa's arc "taken care of," the focus will shift to Arya, Sam, Bran, etc.

Isn't this what many of us already stated, Sansa moves into support and watching Jon's rear?

Most of her scenes would move into the studios .

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27 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Isn't this what many of us already stated, Sansa moves into support and watching Jon's rear?

Most of her scenes would move into the studios .

Well, she can't have a support role in KL if she's not actually there with Jon, Arya, and Davos, and since Sophie filmed nothing in the KL exterior sets--not even a non-action scene like the "grieving man" bit--we know that she's not. Davos will be Jon's right hand and support, not her. If by "watching Jon's rear," you mean "not actively sabotaging him," then yes. It seems more likely that Sansa sits out whatever's going on in KL and then pops up at the Dragonpit for Tyrion's trial or the grand VFX-heavy KL finale or whatever it is in 8x06. Maybe she's off banging Gendry (also mysteriously absent from all the KL goings-on) in a closet somewhere, who knows?

Sansa's not involved in Cleganebowl as an onlooker, either, since it seems likely that it was filmed in June, which seems like a missed opportunity to me (especially since Sansa was an onlooker the last time Gregor and Sandor fought way back in Season 1), but oh well, Arya will likely be there.

Edited by Eyes High.
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13 hours ago, anamika said:

No, because as evidenced by discussions on this very thread, Jon and the Starks don't get the same hate for doing the very same things that Dany does. Dany is constantly criticized for her violence and associated with tyranny and madness for her actions. While what Jon and the Starks do are justified no matter what.

Dany fights the Lannisters for her birth right? She's a tyrant

Jon and Sansa fight the Boltons for their birth right? Totally justfied

Dany executes traitors refusing to bend the knee by dragon fire? She's the mad queen.

Sansa executes traitors by feeding them to hungry dogs? justified. Sansa wanting to kick children from their homes after they bend the knee because their parents were traitors? Justified. And Sophie Turner describes Sansa as a 'kind young woman'! lol

So, no. Even if Jon and the Starks are involved in what happens to Tyrion, I expect Dany to get the brunt of the hate if she does indeed kill Tyrion.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because the Tarlys didn't violently rape Dany, Cersei didn't hold Dany's siblings captive in the castle they grew up in, and Cersei wasn't trying to kill Dany before she landed, but sure, double standards are one way to discuss things. Isn't that flattening the complexity of the characters though? If everyone is bad, there's no reason to analyze one character's actions independently of the others. And if it happens too often it seems like a strategy to distract people from thinking too hard about what a character is actually doing. When a character does "X" thing I shouldn't always have to mention well...DANY over here does "Y". 

Another issue is that people also insist that Dany is doing NOTHING wrong at all. So it's confusing! Either:

1. Dany is being ruthless and acting immorally just like everyone else.

OR

2. Dany is not ruthless at all, she is morally right in every case.

If #1, comparing Dany to Cersei and Stannis (the people who are actually in pursuit of the IT) should be fair game.

If #2, she's cardboard. Every action, no matter how murderous, should be seen as a "good thing." And that's just untenable for me as a viewer. And no, I don't believe that whomever Jon Snow decides to fuck is a marker of "goodness." I'll come up with my own opinions, thanks.

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Sophie’s lack of filming also aligns with that yet to be majorly contradicted leak where Tyrion sends her to the Vale to get the Vale forces on their side. I really don’t want that leak to be true so I’m looking for concrete evidence to disprove it. Dany’s last scene didn’t seem majorly controversial in that leak or like something the actress would hate or be messed up by so that doesn’t really go with what Emilia has said. 

Trying to think of something that would be upsetting, that Emilia would hate, is unpredictable, and could be an end scene, maybe Dany ends up killing her dragons for the greater good or because she knows it’s the only way she’ll be accepted or something. People expect the dragons to die but not for Dany to kill them. I hope that’s not the case. Ugh. I can’t stand this waiting. 

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27 minutes ago, glowbug said:

Sophie’s lack of filming also aligns with that yet to be majorly contradicted leak where Tyrion sends her to the Vale to get the Vale forces on their side. I really don’t want that leak to be true so I’m looking for concrete evidence to disprove it. Dany’s last scene didn’t seem majorly controversial in that leak or like something the actress would hate or be messed up by so that doesn’t really go with what Emilia has said. 

Trying to think of something that would be upsetting, that Emilia would hate, is unpredictable, and could be an end scene, maybe Dany ends up killing her dragons for the greater good or because she knows it’s the only way she’ll be accepted or something. People expect the dragons to die but not for Dany to kill them. I hope that’s not the case. Ugh. I can’t stand this waiting. 

Which leak was this?

The Vale is on their side, did they leave because Danny showed up?

So many I can't keep up .

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15 hours ago, anamika said:

I think we have to remember that things may remain fluid while they are filming. D&D have mentioned that they are still writing the scene as the scene is being filmed because things can change. Italica is an archaeological site and they maybe limited as to what  can be filmed there. Friki talks about Unsullied extras coming with haircuts etc. prepared to fight but then only a couple of them being used to guard Tyrion. I doubt there is some big cover up by HBO using extras to fool people - maybe things are changing based on the set up they have in Italica. Maybe they originally planned to film some action scenes, ended up only rehearsing them and filmed the actual fight on the KL set in Belfast with Kit, Jacob and Unsullied. It's very hard to speculate or predict what's going on based on vague information given by both BoatsexBaby and Friki given that their information keeps changing from time to time.

I very much doubt a scene set up for the historical Italica site would change from an action scene to a dialogue scene. Action scenes are very complicated and sites like this have to be booked way in advance, and I guess the request has to match with what is actually done or the permit may become invalid. In general, while some scenes may change a bit, they arent't going in planning to film the action parts like Hardhome or Blackwater and come out having filmed merely dialogue instead.

Friki explicitly claimed HBO went to massive lengths to mislead people. This was a crucial part of his leak and he went into this extensively in his (English) video. If he is wrong about this, there is no reason to assume he is right about anything else he said, especially not if it seems to contradict other info.

There is good reason anyway to believe HBO went the extra mile to hide things this season, either they did as Friki said or they managed to give Friki false info that he nonetheless trusts (the only alternative is that Friki is outright making things up, which seems unlikely for a man in his position, as opposed to a nameless troll on Freefolk).

Since Boatsexbaby is also coming over as less than thrustworthy lately (keeps changing her story, is shy to contradict other leaks until forced to do so, enjoys seeing people explode), the conclusion may be that we know less than Jon Snow does.

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So if Friki is correct that Joe lied about filming his last scenes in Seville as part of an elaborate deception, I don't see why Sophie couldn't also be lying as part of an elaborate deception, with the deception being that both Sansa and Gendry are already dead.

 

If Friki is correct that his info is reliable, than Sansa lives 100% He was adamant about this. To quote: "Sansa is alive in the dragonpit. Sansa does not die in the dragonpit. Sansa is alive and kicking. She is really well. She is healthy in the dragonpit". If Friki's info is not correct, then there was no elaborate deception (not as he described it anyway, Friki himself was likely deceived in that case) and it doesn't mean anything. We're back to the position that we know both Sophie Turner and Joe Dempsie openly talked about wrapping, without that necessarily telling us anything. 

Friki could be wrong or he could be right, but we cannot chose to believe only half of what he says yet take that as gospel.

Edited by Wouter.
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33 minutes ago, glowbug said:

Sophie’s lack of filming also aligns with that yet to be majorly contradicted leak where Tyrion sends her to the Vale to get the Vale forces on their side

I will admit that there was quite a bit in that "leak" that aligns with what we know about filming--alarmingly so, in some cases (Melisandre showing up to help everyone fight in KL)--but I think that leak has in fact been majorly contradicted in multiple ways:

1. There's no big battle taking place at Winterfell (in the "leak," there's a battle quite a ways from Winterfell involving the Dothraki, and it takes place in Episode 2, not 3).

2. There is a big Riverlands battle in Episode 4.

3. The Dragonpit sequence is supposed to be Grey Worm's rescue of a bunch of hostages including Missandei, and Nathalie Emmanuel is one of the few GOT actors we know for a fact wasn't in Seville at all, since she was provably elsewhere the whole time. 

4. Podrick lives until the KL climax, and Daniel Portman's filming time indicates he doesn't last nearly that long. (Ditto for Tormund, who survives to the end if this leak is correct.)

And so on.

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Which leak was this?

The Vale is on their side, did they leave because Danny showed up?

So many I can't keep up .

According to the "leak"...At Tyrion's request, Sansa goes to the Vale to get the Vale on board, marries (or promises to marry, it's not clear) Robin, declares herself Queen of the Vale (I guess because the Vale wants to be independent?), then rides to KL with them, has a showdown with Cersei, aaaaaand I think that's it. All of that could be filmed in studios.

6 minutes ago, Wouter said:

If Friki is correct that his info is reliable, than Sansa lives 100% He was adamant about this.

He was also adamant that Joe Dempsie filmed no scenes in Seville despite Joe claiming on more than one occasion that he did. 

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6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

According to the "leak"...At Tyrion's request, Sansa goes to the Vale to get the Vale on board, marries (or promises to marry, it's not clear) Robin, declares herself Queen of the Vale (I guess because the Vale wants to be independent?), then rides to KL with them, has a showdown with Cersei, aaaaaand I think that's it. All of that could be filmed in studios.

OK, thanks, so is his reason to send Sansa away is so she isn't harmed or something that could be seen as a plan for betrayal?

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12 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

OK, thanks, so is his reason to send Sansa away is so she isn't harmed or something that could be seen as a plan for betrayal?

The info is here, but I think in this "leak" the idea is that Tyrion needs the Vale's help because they supposedly bail on the North in 8x01 out of disgust over Jon's alliance with Dany, and later Robin declares himself King of the Vale. So Tyrion sends Sansa to the Vale to try to secure their armies. According to this "leak," anyway.

...As fake leaks go, this person made some really good guesses, such as predicting (correctly, apparently, judging from the Mountain's actor shaving his head before filming in June) that the Mountain would lose his helmet in his final clash with Sandor.

Edited by Eyes High.
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2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The info is here, but I think in this "leak" the idea is that Tyrion needs the Vale's help because they supposedly bail on the North in 8x01 out of disgust over Jon's alliance with Dany, and later Robin declares himself King of the Vale. So Tyrion sends Sansa to the Vale to try to secure their armies. According to this "leak," anyway.

Yeah, I remember this, saved it and rereading it now.

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18 hours ago, anamika said:

No, because as evidenced by discussions on this very thread, Jon and the Starks don't get the same hate for doing the very same things that Dany does. Dany is constantly criticized for her violence and associated with tyranny and madness for her actions. While what Jon and the Starks do are justified no matter what.

 

If Tyrion deliberately, for reasons either military ('we NEEDED Jon to do that kamikaze dragon attack to win the war!') mystical ('we NEEDED Jon to sacrifice himself to fulfill the prophecy and save the world!') or a combination of both decided to manipulate or conceal information from Dany to get Jon killed and is then found out, I'd thoroughly expect him to present his case convincingly as being absolutely necessary for the good of the many, even though he will ALSO have the far less noble ulterior motive of being attracted to Dany and ambitious for power himself.

It would be like the way he convinced Dany not to burn King's Landing - giving perfectly sound humanitarian reasons for his advice, however later admitting to Cersei that he ALSO convinced Dany not to attack to spare Cersei herself (hence prolonging the war unnecessarily and inadvertently helping get important allies killed). I'd expect him to say that he made the hard, rational choice that if one magical Targaryen dragonrider HAD to be sacrificed to save the world, it were best that it WASN'T the one who was pregnant with the precious next generation of the dynasty. He'd make a convincing argument - so that when Dany decides to put him to death anyway, that choice will have that much more of an impact.

And yes, it's true that the survivings Starks will likely be all enthusiastically in favor of the execution, and it will be unfair that Dany will likely get the brunt of the blame for it. But she IS the queen and she's the one who will be ultimately making the final 'Dracarys' decision. The buck stops with her. No wonder Emilia's bracing herself for the reaction.

Edited by screamin.
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1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

He was also adamant that Joe Dempsie filmed no scenes in Seville despite Joe claiming on more than one occasion that he did. 

And the thing that I don't get is, why be so adamant about Joe/Gendry? Aside from pointing a possible mistake/fake info, the subject seems pretty irrelevant if I believe Friki himself.

There are only three reasons why Joe D. filming or not in Seville would give away a huge spoiler or part of the end game. 1) If the filming in Seville included a coronation involving Gendry  2) If the filming in Seville included a wedding involving Gendry and a main character *cough* Arya *cough* 3) If the filming in Seville included a battle scene with Gendry's super duper sikrit nu zombie-killing weapon. However, Friki rejects every of those possibilities in his leaks: no coronation or wedding but a trial, no battle scene, and on top of it he positively and namely dismissed the King Gendry option in his speculations.

If his leaks are true, it makes absolutely no sense for HBO or anyone to care one way or another about Joe/Gendry in Seville. Especially if multiple scenes were filmed, which could happen at different times or in different locations on the show itself. They didn't even try to dissimulate his presence, unlike Gemma Whelan's. It doesn't mean *anything* except maybe for a secondary character (and I say this as one of his biggest supporters) surviving from WF to KL -with no certainty that he'll survive the KL battle so it doesn't even reveal if the Baratheon blood will survive. 

Joe Dempsie is the only supporting role for whom we have a precise wrapping date, AFAIK. So it occured to me that perhaps, Friki and/or his source made a mistake (it could simply be that one of them, or both, didn't bother to check this detail out even if their other info his legit) and he can't backpedal because he's afraid that the integrality of his leaks will be rejected if he admits to giving one wrong fact -as opposed to pure speculation where it doesn't matter if he's off the mark.

Edited by Happy Harpy. Reason: Two isn't three, LOL.
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1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

And the thing that I don't get is, why be so adamant about Joe/Gendry? Aside from pointing a possible mistake/fake info, the subject seems pretty irrelevant if I believe Friki himself.

 

 

He was asked to provide details, and he did. He also mentioned explicitly that Wolf unit did the filming (rather than dragon unit), which is an unimportant detail for us but it demonstrates that he has specific info. And part of the info that he trusts, is that Gendry didn't film and he was in Seville as a diversion. Friki placed emphasis on that part to illustrate how HBO has (supposedly) been playing us. It would imply that Dempsie gave misleading answers or even lied, at the behest of HBO. If this is not true, it calls the integrity of his info into question, because then the info about Tyrion could be wrong and likely would be wrong. If Joe did film in Seville (maybe he wrapped in Belfast around the same time?), it's likely Friki is the one who has been played by his source(s).

If Friki thought there was a mistake, I think he would correct it, just as he corrected earlier claims/beliefs that there would be an action scene involving Unsullied, filmed in Seville. AFAIK he hasn't backtracked about Gendry not being in the scene.

Edited by Wouter.
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19 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Lol apparently Friki is going to drop more info this weekend according to Freefolk.

I wonder how long this goes on?

Well it's making the weeks go by quicker.

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So.....I think I will treat both 'leaks' and all future leaks without photo documentary proof like April Fools Day........ believe nothing, and no one.  .....  and be prepared for attacks of a humiliating and malicious nature....

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27 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I wonder how long this goes on?

Well it's making the weeks go by quicker.

He said he has 2 other plot twists that he knows.

51 minutes ago, Wouter said:

He was asked to provide details, and he did. He also mentioned explicitly that Wolf unit did the filming (rather than dragon unit), which is an unimportant detail for us but it demonstrates that he has specific info. And part of the info that he trusts, is that Gendry didn't film and he was in Seville as a diversion. Friki placed emphasis on that part to illustrate how HBO has (supposedly) been playing us. It would imply that Dempsie gave misleading answers or even lied, at the behest of HBO. If this is not true, it calls the integrity of his info into question, because then the info about Tyrion could be wrong and likely would be wrong. If Joe did film in Seville (maybe he wrapped in Belfast around the same time?), it's likely Friki is the one who has been played by his source(s).

If Friki thought there was a mistake, I think he would correct it, just as he corrected earlier claims/beliefs that there would be an action scene involving Unsullied, filmed in Seville. AFAIK he hasn't backtracked about Gendry not being in the scene.

Yeah, even when he was told about that Joe's interview, he still remains certain in his leak. Only time will tell, but I'm sure I trust him more than BoatsexBaby.

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14 minutes ago, nikma said:

He said he has 2 other plot twists that he knows.

Tyrion’s actually in love with Jon!!!! 

Sansa is Azor Ahai !

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It wouldn't be the first time an actor mislead fans/media/whomever. Didn't Joe Dempsie say that he was not going back to the show even though he was spotted at the airport in Belfast? I think he said it at a con as well right before going back to the show. 

And Kit said Jon was dead even though we all knew Jon was going to be brought back somehow. Everyone who knew Jon was coming back lied about Jon not coming back.

Edited by YaddaYadda.
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1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

So.....I think I will treat both 'leaks' and all future leaks without photo documentary proof like April Fools Day........ believe nothing, and no one.  .....  and be prepared for attacks of a humiliating and malicious nature....

Nothing we "know" so far is even a real spoiler. We basicallly have a bunch of half-baked theories.

Based on the report that neither Joe nor Sansa were filming on a certain day, my theory of the day is that Sansa and Gendry say "fuck all this" and run off together.

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2 hours ago, Wouter said:

He was asked to provide details, and he did. He also mentioned explicitly that Wolf unit did the filming (rather than dragon unit), which is an unimportant detail for us but it demonstrates that he has specific info. And part of the info that he trusts, is that Gendry didn't film and he was in Seville as a diversion. Friki placed emphasis on that part to illustrate how HBO has (supposedly) been playing us. It would imply that Dempsie gave misleading answers or even lied, at the behest of HBO.

 

To my recollection, he said in his first Q&A that Joe Dempsie/Gendry didn't film, some people opposed that the actor said he did, and the Big HBO Conspiracy came afterwards to justify/explain that contradiction.

It still gives no logical explanation as to why HBO would ask a very supporting actor to mislead people or lie about his insignificant filming dates.  Emilia not there in Seville had the whole fandom aflutter with Dany Dies rumors and its shit-ton of posts and fleaks and theories and controversies and flame wars; if indeed it was used to create doubt whereas Dany lives, it was an excellent job at misleading people and keeping them wondering about the obvious (hee). Joe in Seville got some "Yay he survives until 8x06" from Gendry fans, if he indeed didn't film the same people would go "shit, does he survive until KL after all". I don't see at all what HBO would have to gain here. Moreover, it isn't the only info Joe gave about his filming for S8, since he also said he filmed for 8 months (which, in addition, fits with his first sightings in Belfast in October to his last sightings in Seville in May).

I don't see how mentioning the filming unit demonstrates that Friki has some info. Was it verified since that the Wolf unit filmed? Was it reported somewhere, prior to his claim, or is it new info? I remembered that the Seville crew posted an instagram picture about how they finished filming GoT, but it seems the picture had been deleted since (the one mentioned here I think). Was it the Dragon or Wolf unit, or yet another one? That, I sadly forgot. 

Again, I have no idea whether he has info or not and not being a mind reader I can't be judge of his sincerity; but in absence of concrete proof and in case of contradiction, I'll take the logical and simple explanation over complicated conspiracy theories.

I also disagree that either everything is true, either everything is false. Friki can have a couple of info and embroider, or be fed both lies and truths etc.

56 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

IDidn't Joe Dempsie say that he was not going back to the show even though he was spotted at the airport in Belfast? I think he said it at a con as well right before going back to the show. 

And Kit said Jon was dead even though we all knew Jon was going to be brought back somehow. Everyone who knew Jon was coming back lied about Jon not coming back.

 

Those details spoiled the plot, a surprise return and a surprise resurrection. Gendry filming or not in Seville? Spoils nothing and even less than nothing according to Friki leaks.

Edited by Happy Harpy.
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7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Nothing we "know" so far is even a real spoiler. We basicallly have a bunch of half-baked theories.

Based on the report that neither Joe nor Sansa were filming on a certain day, my theory of the day is that Sansa and Gendry say "fuck all this" and run off together.

"Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other …" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "… if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall."

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Just now, WindyNights said:

"Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other …" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "… if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall."

Does that mean that Sansa will end up with Hot Pie?

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28 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Okay, Peter playing dead on set is odd. What is that about? Does Tyrion die so Peter goes around pretending to be dead? Why else would he do this?

 

28 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Again with the “You may be surprised by the obvious though.” Iain wants Dany on the throne, but thinks we will be surprised. This doesn't feel to me like Dany dies, but clearly there is twist. 

Edited by SimoneS.
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1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

"Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other …" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "… if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall."

"If the gods are good" is GRRM speak for "not gonna happen":

Ned to Robert: "If the gods are good, I shall not be here on your return. You commanded me to return to Winterfell, remember?" (AGOT, Ned never made it back)

Tyrion: "And if the gods are good, Bywater will find Arya alive, before Robb learns she's gone missing." (ACOK, Bywater never found Arya)

Catelyn thinking that Cersei, Tyrion and Tywin are alive but not for long "if the gods are good" (ACOK, and all three outlive Catelyn)

The Hound, on Tyrion: "If the gods are good, they'll burn him, but I won't be here to see. I'm going" (ACOK, Tyrion wasn't burned)

Osha, on the burning of Winterfell: "If the gods are good, the Others will take them that did this work" (ACOK, and nope)

Jon hoping "If the gods are good, a patrol will chance by and put an end to this" (ASOS, didn't happen)

Sam thinking "If the gods are good, they will send [Gilly] a daughter" (ASOS, nope)

Tyrion thinking "If the gods are good, [Petyr] ran into a storm at sea and sank" (ASOS, didn't happen)

Cersei saying when burning the Tower of the Hand "If the gods are good, the fire may smoke a few rats from the rubble," meaning Tyrion (AFFC, didn't happen)

Brienne hoping to avoid a run-in with Lord Tarly " If the gods are good, we will pass Maidenpool before he knows that I am there" (AFFC, Brienne does encounter Randyll)

Dareon saying of Skagos "If the gods are good, we may catch a glimpse of a unicorn" (AFFC, no unicorns)

Ser Kennos on Stoneheart and the BWB: "If the gods are good, they'll be swallowed up in quicksand or gobbled down by lizard-lions" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei on Loras' attack on Storm's End:  "If the gods were good, he would give Ser Loras the glorious end he seemed to want" (AFFC, and Loras survives the attack)

Cersei on Loras vs. Bronn:  "If the gods were good, each of them would kill the other, like Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei on Alerie's reaction to the news about Loras: "As for his lady mother, if the gods are good this news will kill her" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei hoping the Blue Bard will die beneath the lash, if the gods are good (AFFC, and nope)

Quentyn on Dany in ADWD: "The most beautiful woman in the world, thought Quentyn. My bride-to-be, if the gods are good." (ADWD, and nope)

Jon Connington hoping for Tyrion's death: "If the gods were good, Lannister's severed head was halfway back to King's Landing by now" (ADWD, and nope)

...There are more examples, but that's the gist. And since we were talking about Robin's odds of marrying Sansa in the books or show upthread, there's also this from the TWOW Alayne chapter:

If the gods are good and he lives long enough to wed, his wife will admire his hair, surely. 

...Nice knowing you, Robin.

Edited by Eyes High.
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5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

"If the gods are good" is GRRM speak for "not gonna happen":

Ned to Robert: "If the gods are good, I shall not be here on your return. You commanded me to return to Winterfell, remember?" (AGOT, Ned never made it back)

Tyrion: "And if the gods are good, Bywater will find Arya alive, before Robb learns she's gone missing." (ACOK, Bywater never found Arya)

Catelyn thinking that Cersei, Tyrion and Tywin are alive but not for long "if the gods are good" (ACOK, and all three outlive Catelyn)

The Hound, on Tyrion: "If the gods are good, they'll burn him, but I won't be here to see. I'm going" (ACOK, Tyrion wasn't burned)

Osha, on the burning of Winterfell: "If the gods are good, the Others will take them that did this work" (ACOK, and nope)

Jon hoping "If the gods are good, a patrol will chance by and put an end to this" (ASOS, didn't happen)

Sam thinking "If the gods are good, they will send [Gilly] a daughter" (ASOS, nope)

Tyrion thinking "If the gods are good, [Petyr] ran into a storm at sea and sank" (ASOS, didn't happen)

Cersei saying when burning the Tower of the Hand "If the gods are good, the fire may smoke a few rats from the rubble," meaning Tyrion (AFFC, didn't happen)

Brienne hoping to avoid a run-in with Lord Tarly " If the gods are good, we will pass Maidenpool before he knows that I am there" (AFFC, Brienne does encounter Randyll)

Dareon saying of Skagos "If the gods are good, we may catch a glimpse of a unicorn" (AFFC, no unicorns)

Ser Kennos on Stoneheart and the BWB: "If the gods are good, they'll be swallowed up in quicksand or gobbled down by lizard-lions" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei on Loras' attack on Storm's End:  "If the gods were good, he would give Ser Loras the glorious end he seemed to want" (AFFC, and Loras survives the attack)

Cersei on Loras vs. Bronn:  "If the gods were good, each of them would kill the other, like Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei on Alerie's reaction to the news about Loras: "As for his lady mother, if the gods are good this news will kill her" (AFFC, and nope)

Cersei hoping the Blue Bard will die beneath the lash, if the gods are good (AFFC, and nope)

Quentyn on Dany in ADWD: "The most beautiful woman in the world, thought Quentyn. My bride-to-be, if the gods are good." (ADWD, and nope)

Jon Connington hoping for Tyrion's death: "If the gods were good, Lannister's severed head was halfway back to King's Landing by now" (ADWD, and nope)

...There are more examples, but that's the gist. And since we were talking about Robin's odds of marrying Sansa in the books or show upthread, there's also this from the TWOW Alayne chapter:

If the gods are good and he lives long enough to wed, his wife will admire his hair, surely. 

...Nice knowing you, Robin.

I wouldn't doubt it if D & D decided to combine Harry and Robert together. If characters can die in the show and live in the books then maybe there are characters that die in the books and live in the show.

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16 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Okay, Peter playing dead on set is odd. What is that about? Does Tyrion die so Peter goes around pretending to be dead? Why else would he do this?

Rumor that when he is executed, he get's Drecarysed and survives.

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4 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

I wouldn't doubt it if D & D decided to combine Harry and Robert together. If characters can die in the show and live in the books then maybe there are characters that die in the books and live in the show.

Yeah, about that....Sansa thinks this about Harry in the TWOW chapter:

Quote

Alayne said. "I'm sure Ser Harrold loves you well." And if the gods are good, he will love me too.

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2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Yeah, about that....Sansa thinks this about Harry in the TWOW chapter:

And Robin also stated he knows what HTH wants as he told Sansa, he's after his throne.

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35 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Okay, Peter playing dead on set is odd. What is that about? Does Tyrion die so Peter goes around pretending to be dead? Why else would he do this?

 

It would be weird to talk about playing dead on set if he actually does die in S8, but I wouldn't read much into it one way or another. Things seem to get pretty silly on set when the actors get bored: Jack Gleeson used to come up with raps, Conleth often made actors break by pulling faces, there was that whole bit where they filmed Peter in manacles dancing at his trial, etc. etc.

Edited by Eyes High.
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