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S01.E05: The Suspects 2017.05.19

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A tip line yields compelling stories that point the group's investigation to two more men who might have been involved in Sister Catherine's murder.

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Karma, Maskell. It's a bitch, ain't it?

I was confused about the other possible suspects, until 'Brother Bob' came back up. Suddenly, I'm starting to get all these ideas in my head...

And dammit. I was thinking all along that something had happened to Jean's husband, Mike. His death had to be such a blow.

I can't believe I'm binging this show, it's not going to be helpful for sleeping tonight. But WOW. Putting this story together? It's been masterful.

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I thought the necklace was given to the first wife the Christmas following Cathy's death, which would have just been 5-6 weeks later.

The doc never explained any connection between Maskell and Billy & Edgar, but it also never gave a reason, if there wasn't a connection, why they would kill her.

And if they used her car to transport her to wherever they did kill her, and went to all the trouble to bring it back, why not go ahead and park it legally.

I don't believe the reporter saying that the priest Cathy was friends with killed her or knew something.

The fact that Maskell took Jean to the body proves that he knew it was going to happen and where she ended up. But how big are your balls that you dare to take someone to a dead body and tell them "this is what happens when you bad mouth people".

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I got chills when Barbara was talking about the creepy "nun" chasing her in the car and then when she described the nun mannequin in the attic. What the heck was that about?? So bizarre.

Random aside-I loved how the camera focused on her house decorations and that they included her description of her dogs!

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Did I understand correctly that Barbara was first married to Billy Schmidt, then his brother (or brother-in-law?)? Billy later came out as gay and had the menacing friend/lover Skippy. ("Skippy" is not a very menacing name.)

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Did I understand correctly that Barbara was first married to Billy Schmidt, then his brother (or brother-in-law?)? Billy later came out as gay and had the menacing friend/lover Skippy. ("Skippy" is not a very menacing name.)

I believe she said that she and Billy were just good friends, never married. She said she knew both brothers since they were all kids.

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I would think someone in the Baltimore gay community in the '60s and '70s might remember a name like Skippy or an odd ball like Billy Schmidt.
Skippy is a strange name to call an adult and I'd think it would stand out in people's minds.

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11 minutes ago, buckboard said:

I would think someone in the Baltimore gay community in the '60s and '70s might remember a name like Skippy or an odd ball like Billy Schmidt.
Skippy is a strange name to call an adult and I'd think it would stand out in people's minds.

Unless Skippy was name only used by some.  As you said, Skippy is a strange name for an adult (the only Skippy I ever knew was a dog, but whatever) and I highly doubt that anyone would name their child that.  But, if they were part of a community that was not socially accepted, such as the gay community in a very Catholic city in the middle of the 20th century, I could see whoever this is adopting a name only used socially in that circle.  And it is possible that Skippy is also Brother Bobby?

That being said, I think it is a possibility that there are others out there who have information about this case that they haven't shared.  Whether this show will make a difference is yet to be seen.

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Boy, I do not understand the point of this episode. If the main premise of the documentary is to make the case that Sister Cathy's murder was part of a cover-up for the sex crimes at Keough, then everything they have to say about these two other random guys undercuts that. 

And one of these stories  -- I think my uncle killed her and carried her out in a rug -- doesn't match up AT ALL with any of the facts of her murder. Of all the things that are unknown about the night she died, there's no suggestion by anyone ever that she was murdered in her apartment.

My own opinion is that the show does not do a very good job connecting the sex crimes to the nun's murder. But just as a matter of internal consistency, I don't get at all why it goes on this episode-long diversion into these two other stories. The main impression it made on me was, wow, maybe amateur sleuths -- however appealing they are -- shouldn't be investigating this if they are not capable of sorting through and discarding these wild goose chases.

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12 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Unless Skippy was name only used by some.  As you said, Skippy is a strange name for an adult (the only Skippy I ever knew was a dog, but whatever) and I highly doubt that anyone would name their child that.

The only Skippy I know is peanut butter.

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I had to stop after this episode tonight. I'll finish the rest tomorrow. It's just so much to process. Plus, my heart broke for Gemma when she was speaking with Cathy's sister and she sounded so much like her beloved teacher. It must have been like talking to her after 48 years.

Cathy's murder doesn't seem like just one of those random homicides. I don't recall the autopsy revealing any evidence of sexual assault and it seems strange that she would be targeted for robbery. Nothing about a Ford Maverick denotes that the driver has deep pockets. I think it was marketed as a car that just about anyone could afford.

I hope Sister Cathy knows what an impact she had on the lives of her students. This is a brutal series to watch, but I think Cathy's true goodness and the love her students had for her is what gives "The Keepers" a lot of heart that's missing from a lot of true crime shows

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22 hours ago, Eliz said:

And one of these stories  -- I think my uncle killed her and carried her out in a rug -- doesn't match up AT ALL with any of the facts of her murder. Of all the things that are unknown about the night she died, there's no suggestion by anyone ever that she was murdered in her apartment.

Right?  Wasn't her roommate at home that whole time, if I'm remembering correctly?  The degree to which this whole thing relies on the notoriously fallible human memory is really frustrating (although that's not to say that I disbelieve the victims).

On 5/23/2017 at 7:12 AM, teddysmom said:

And if they used her car to transport her to wherever they did kill her, and went to all the trouble to bring it back, why not go ahead and park it legally.

The theory I got out of that was that it was to send a message/make sure the car was found and obvious that something had happened (as opposed to her just wandering off, I guess?)

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On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Eliz said:

The main impression it made on me was, wow, maybe amateur sleuths -- however appealing they are -- shouldn't be investigating this if they are not capable of sorting through and discarding these wild goose chases.

Not a bad point but who else would be willing to do it?  Plus I like that Abby fact checks details almost obsessively. I think we were shown two of their more credible leads.  

I still find the re-creations very cheap.  They detract from a serious story, adding unnecessary melodrama.  Also I resent each episode ending with a dramatic hook.  A cold case murder would be one thing but the abuse victims are going through something painful right now and I resent the producers for using such cheap tricks when these women are so brutally sincere.  

Also the reporter is creepy with his room of swords.  And shorts.  Could he not put on pants?  

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I found the episode interesting but didn't think there was much of a case for Billy.  I found Edgar more convincing since we know he came home that night covered in blood and the necklace.  Why didn't they just try to find out her sister's birthstone?  That seems easy enough to me.  His interest in adolescent girls also made him a lot more convincing.

Billy and his brother just didn't make sense.  Maybe he saw something and was threatened causing his obcession and mental health issues.  But it just seemed unlikely that he would have known the priest or been a likely person to be asked to carry out a murder.  Plus his nephew's story didn t match other details.  I also felt like his brother's ex wife didn't seem to make a fuss that her husband was covered in blood on the right night.  She never said "I know it was that night because" or anything.  Plus her son didn't mention hi s father being involved.  

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:10 PM, bilgistic said:

The only Skippy I know is peanut butter.

Heh the only one who came to mind for me was the Keaton's annoying neighbor on Family Ties!

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As I watched The Burial, I didn't know how there could be 3 more episodes, because I thought the trial would be the obvious conclusion. So much for the justice system.

Barbara's gay brother-in-law Billy Schmidt seems really unlikely. Gay men in drag as nuns seems like just a weird 60s gay thing, not a threat because she "knew too much". Billy was probably psychologically screwed up by virtue of being a gay man in the 1960s. That doesn't make him a murderer.

But I got chills when they slowly panned to the nun mannequin in the attic. That's just fucking creepy.

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On Friday, June 02, 2017 at 7:41 PM, skittl3862 said:

But I got chills when they slowly panned to the nun mannequin in the attic. That's just fucking creepy.

And unnecessary.   The story is horrific enough.  All that extra flare drives me batty.

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8 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

And unnecessary.   The story is horrific enough.  All that extra flare drives me batty.

AND THEY PUT IT AS THE EPISODE LOADING FREEZE-FRAME TOO AGH

I think it's the faceless face.  ughhhhhhh it's too late for these images to be back in my head I need to google some pictures of kittens now.

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Ha!  But actually it irritates me that the producers made the nun habit/uniform creepy.  I mean the opening credits have positive images of Cathy in her habit but there is something annoying to me on how they are using one of her most identifying features to create a scary feeling.  

It is a bit like that long blonde Alice in Wonderland wig on the recreation actress.  I am sure Jean had long hair in that era but I got tired of seeing this girl walking to her doom over and over.  I would have preferred to see modern day, survivor Jean or spent more time with the other woman.  Or learned about the ones who didn't make it due to drugs or suicide.  

Edited by jeansheridan.
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On 6/10/2017 at 8:05 AM, jeansheridan said:

Ha!  But actually it irritates me that the producers made the nun habit/uniform creepy.  I mean the opening credits have positive images of Cathy in her habit but there is something annoying to me on how they are using one of her most identifying feature to create a scary feeling.  It is a bit like that long blonde Alice in Wonderland wig on the recreation actress.  I am sure Jean had long hair in that era but I got tired of seeing this girl walking to her doom over and over.  I would have preferred to see modern day, survivor Jean or spent more time with the other woman.  Or learned about the ones who didn't make it due to drugs or suicide.  

I feel Skippy, who was known to go around dressed as a pregnant nun, placed it on the mannequin in the attic to drive Billy crazy, which he sadly succeeded in doing.

On 5/23/2017 at 9:12 AM, teddysmom said:

I thought the necklace was given to the first wife the Christmas following Cathy's death, which would have just been 5-6 weeks later.

The doc never explained any connection between Maskell and Billy & Edgar, but it also never gave a reason, if there wasn't a connection, why they would kill her.

And if they used her car to transport her to wherever they did kill her, and went to all the trouble to bring it back, why not go ahead and park it legally.

I don't believe the reporter saying that the priest Cathy was friends with killed her or knew something.

The fact that Maskell took Jean to the body proves that he knew it was going to happen and where she ended up. But how big are your balls that you dare to take someone to a dead body and tell them "this is what happens when you bad mouth people".

There IS a connection between Maskell and Edgar. Search "A Baltimore Storm" on Facebook.

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On 6/14/2017 at 4:03 PM, Pumpernickel1727 said:

I feel Skippy, who was known to go around dressed as a pregnant nun, placed it on the mannequin in the attic to drive Billy crazy, which he sadly succeeded in doing.

There IS a connection between Maskell and Edgar. Search "A Baltimore Storm" on Facebook.

I've been reading the Facrbook group, from what I can tell, Edgar's niece Debbie is admin of the group?  Where does she specify the connection, I haven't been able to find it on that group.

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On 5/28/2017 at 9:56 PM, OtterMommy said:

Unless Skippy was name only used by some.  As you said, Skippy is a strange name for an adult (the only Skippy I ever knew was a dog, but whatever) and I highly doubt that anyone would name their child that.  But, if they were part of a community that was not socially accepted, such as the gay community in a very Catholic city in the middle of the 20th century, I could see whoever this is adopting a name only used socially in that circle.  And it is possible that Skippy is also Brother Bobby?

That being said, I think it is a possibility that there are others out there who have information about this case that they haven't shared.  Whether this show will make a difference is yet to be seen.

Yeah I understand what you mean. I don't know quite how "Skippy" and Bill actually figure into the murder but I don't think the women being interviewed are just pulling things out of their ass. 

 

I could see Maskell and his evil cronies blackmailing gay men they knew to do their dirty work/dispose of the body because in 1960s Balitomore being gay WAS a crime. A priest accusing you of being in a gay bar meant the end of your ability to find a job/live in your community at the very least. Those pieces of shit like Maskell were raping and torturing KIDS but able to get away with it because they were priests and were higher in the social hierarchy than a gay man just living his life socializing with other adults. Also pedophiles do tend to run in circles and "share" victims, so yes I know Maskell knew other pedophiles who worked in various spheres in Balitimore society that could help him cover up crimes. 

Edited by Scarlett45.
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On 5/28/2017 at 9:57 PM, Eliz said:

Boy, I do not understand the point of this episode. If the main premise of the documentary is to make the case that Sister Cathy's murder was part of a cover-up for the sex crimes at Keough, then everything they have to say about these two other random guys undercuts that...My own opinion is that the show does not do a very good job connecting the sex crimes to the nun's murder.

I don't know where the show is going, but what if the truth is that the killing of Sister Cathy had nothing to do at all with the evil at Keough High? That wouldn't mean the second story (the murder) made the first story (the sex abuse) pointless. Both stories would be worth telling. Maybe especially so, because it would be telling us that evidence doesn't always lead where you think it's going to. If the show "does not do a very good job connecting the sex crimes to the nun's murder," maybe that's because, startlingly, there's no connection! (Would you have the show make a connection if there isn't one?)

Which all seems unlikely, I grant you, but that's where my mind started to go this episode.

Edited by Milburn Stone.
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On 5/28/2017 at 10:56 PM, OtterMommy said:

As you said, Skippy is a strange name for an adult (the only Skippy I ever knew was a dog, but whatever) and I highly doubt that anyone would name their child that. 

FWIW, I had a friend in college - in the late 70s - who was nicknamed Skippy. 

On 5/28/2017 at 10:57 PM, Eliz said:

Boy, I do not understand the point of this episode. If the main premise of the documentary is to make the case that Sister Cathy's murder was part of a cover-up for the sex crimes at Keough, then everything they have to say about these two other random guys undercuts that. 

And one of these stories  -- I think my uncle killed her and carried her out in a rug -- doesn't match up AT ALL with any of the facts of her murder. Of all the things that are unknown about the night she died, there's no suggestion by anyone ever that she was murdered in her apartment.

Although I found the speculation about Edgar-Billy-Skippy interesting, I don't see how it ties back into the abuse at Keogh. And perhaps, as @Milburn Stone says, it doesn't have to. Maybe it is enough to broaden the list of suspects. Someone killed Sr Cathy.

However, this looks a bit like a random list of possible suspects with little discernible motive. Ed is suspected because he was driving around the neighborhood one time trying to lure underage girls into a car and came home with a bloody shirt. Billy is suspected because he lived across the hall and his nephew had odd recollections years later.

I just don't know what to make of it. I also don't want to dismiss their family members who came forward to share their stories/suspicions. Ultimately, this is how crimes are solved. I'm just not sure that their stories will help solve this murder.

One quick question: in Brian's interview, he mentioned "Uncle Bobby." Who is that and had we heard about him previously? Random thought: could "Uncle Bobby" and "Brother Bob" be the same person?

So far, I have mixed feelings about this show. I am, of course, horrified by these events but some of the narrative is a bit disjointed. Regardless, this show has introduced me to a lot of truly remarkable women. I don't know where this show will go but I hope that these women will one day find the peace and justice that they seek and deserve.

Edited by Ellaria Sand.
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Maybe I'm weird, but my first thought on hearing about Ed was that he was "Brother Bob."  

Do love the points brought up about Brian's interview not really matching up with the facts that we know about the case because I truly did not catch them at the time.

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On 6/29/2017 at 11:04 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I don't know where the show is going, but what if the truth is that the killing of Sister Cathy had nothing to do at all with the evil at Keough High? That wouldn't mean the second story (the murder) made the first story (the sex abuse) pointless. Both stories would be worth telling. Maybe especially so, because it would be telling us that evidence doesn't always lead where you think it's going to. If the show "does not do a very good job connecting the sex crimes to the nun's murder," maybe that's because, startlingly, there's no connection! (Would you have the show make a connection if there isn't one?)

Which all seems unlikely, I grant you, but that's where my mind started to go this episode.

I thought that the murder may have been not so much to hide the priest/student sex scandal, but more to hide the "important men being provided young girls for sex" scandal. Think about it, if Brother Bob was someone high up in the police, or a local politician, the impetus for the murder may have been to keep his name from coming out. Then it would make sense that Maskell would go find these local no-goodnicks from the parish that he knew from his time as a local priest to do his dirty work. And according to the girls the number of men was large and varied and included me in uniform, so that portion of the cover up could have been the driver and not so much what was happening strictly with the members of the church.

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1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

I thought that the murder may have been not so much to hide the priest/student sex scandal, but more to hide the "important men being provided young girls for sex" scandal. Think about it, if Brother Bob was someone high up in the police, or a local politician, the impetus for the murder may have been to keep his name from coming out. Then it would make sense that Maskell would go find these local no-goodnicks from the parish that he knew from his time as a local priest to do his dirty work. And according to the girls the number of men was large and varied and included me in uniform, so that portion of the cover up could have been the driver and not so much what was happening strictly with the members of the church.

This theory is as good as any, but as I gained more distance from the show (it's been some time now since I watched it), I wondered if the show really established that Sister Cathy was going to "talk" if she weren't silenced. Certainly that's the implication; we know some of the girls talked to her about the abuse, and because our sympathies are with Sister Cathy as the murder victim, we want to believe that she was going to do something about it. We also connect the fact that she left the school with a presumption that she found the abuse unacceptable. But do we have evidence (or even any reason to suppose) that she went to Maskill to say "I know what you did"? And that therefore Maskill or any of the other men in the room feared her enough to want her dead? There's just as much reason to suppose that Cathy was repulsed by the horrors, left the school because of them, but never once confronted anyone or brought the matter to anyone's attention, because of her fear of the Church.

Which would make her murder a separate crime.

Apologies in advance if my distance from the show has made me forget any evidence that showed that Cathy made Maskill aware of her knowledge, but I don't remember any.

Edited by Milburn Stone.
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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:45 PM, saoirse said:

Karma, Maskell. It's a bitch, ain't it?

I was confused about the other possible suspects, until 'Brother Bob' came back up. Suddenly, I'm starting to get all these ideas in my head...

And dammit. I was thinking all along that something had happened to Jean's husband, Mike. His death had to be such a blow.

I can't believe I'm binging this show, it's not going to be helpful for sleeping tonight. But WOW. Putting this story together? It's been masterful.

Yes, but it sure took it's time.  These stories actually reinforce my faith.  I couldn't handle learning of this extensive, horrific abuse if I thought this man lived with no consequences for his actions, then peacefully found his death.  I need to believe that this man, and his cohorts, are rotting in an eternal hell.  

I was pretty sure that Mike was dead, but it was still devastating.  It's a shame that Jean seems to believe his cancer was caused by what happened to her.  It's simply another way for her to blame herself.

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:56 PM, OtterMommy said:

Unless Skippy was name only used by some.  As you said, Skippy is a strange name for an adult (the only Skippy I ever knew was a dog, but whatever) and I highly doubt that anyone would name their child that.  But, if they were part of a community that was not socially accepted, such as the gay community in a very Catholic city in the middle of the 20th century, I could see whoever this is adopting a name only used socially in that circle.  And it is possible that Skippy is also Brother Bobby?

That being said, I think it is a possibility that there are others out there who have information about this case that they haven't shared.  Whether this show will make a difference is yet to be seen.

Going on your theme of aliases, I wonder if "Brother Bob" was the pseudonym for a group of men involved in this child rape ring.   A generic name that could never be traced back to anyone.  And how fucking brazen is it to show up in your uniform and rape a child?  I mean how in this world did no one hear all of this raping going on?  None of the girls reported being gagged.  One of them reported her head banging against the wall.   We all know what that rhythmic sound means even if we're sheltered (most of us have unwilling heard our parents).  At least one rape was basically described as violent - yet not one sound leaks into the halls or into adjoining rooms?  These pieces of filth rape in silence?  I highly doubt it - if the priest was getting off on watching, they were getting off on putting on a show.  And how did that poor girl ever again go to the gynecologist after being raped in stirrups while the OB/GYNE molested her?   These men were absolutely fearless, and I cannot believe a civil suit has not bankrupted the diocese, school, and even police department.

I'm sure part of my problem is that I've been binging this since last night, but I'm almost wishing that this whole city be burned to the ground.  This group of rapists appear to be the most influential people in the town.  It really makes me wonder why Jean can remember everything but Father Bob's face.   It gives me a very sick feeling that she knew him, and knew him well.   A family member, a neighbor, or even a father of a friend?  She was the perfect candidate for DID.  The simple fact that she doesn't really remember any of her classmates proves she was disassociating through a massive period of those years.

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