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S03.E07: Expenses 2017.05.22

24 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Again, he wasn't being Mr. Benevolent- he wanted something in return (likely information on Anita's missing/dead husband).  He called baseball-card guy and said "I'm in" right after talking to her.

That's a good explanation for why he decided to "go in." I was thinking of something else. After his first meeting with Anita, there was the glimmer of new love in his life, and he went to his job that night with an actual smile on his face (when have we ever seen Mike smile?) and benevolently told pharmaceutical-guy to stay out of any more dealings. But the next time he sees Anita, he discovers that she's still not over her dead/missing husband, and he realizes that his dreams of a relationship with her were just pipe dreams, and he's back to being cynical, hopeless and depressed Mike again, and sees nothing to lose by getting re-involved with pharmacist-guy and Nacho.

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8 hours ago, GussieK said:

James Garner and Mariette Hartley paired in a famous series of commrcials for Polaroid cameras in the 70s. I'm dating myself. 

Honk if you remember Polaroid cameras. 

Honk, honk.

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8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Glad to see Kim still has a conscience and feels bad for helping Jimmy destroy Chuck. 

Me too. As much as I, personally, don't really care what happened to Chuck because I think he's an ass who brought it on himself - it shows that Kim as human. That as much as she disagreed with how Chuck treated Jimmy, she still sees him as a sick person and she isn't sure it was the right thing to do, in hindsight. She may not entirely regret it, but she doesn't feel good about it either. 

 

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Also, the best way to deal with Hector's pills is to get the bottle, take some out to reduce the total number, then just add one bad one, put the bottle back and wait. That way, after Hector takes the one bad one, all the remaining pills will be good.  But Nacho probably can't afford to wait.

That's exactly the problem. He can't just wait around. Hector was pretty adamant about bringing Nacho's dad in, and things would go very badly if that happened. Or didn't happen. 

 

7 hours ago, PrincessSteel said:

 

I don't think that Nacho has thought through his plan...he CERTAINTY has not thought about it as deeply as Mike has, but that's understandable. Most people don't think things through in the way Mike does. Also, listen to Mike. Always, always listen to Mike!

 

Yup. No half measures. 

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Now that I think about it, HHM's failure to disclose to the legal malpractice insurer the conditions in which a partner, Chuck, was doing HHM's work, and handling clients' documents, is really going to hammer HHM's insurance costs, even if Chuck is sent to the sidelines. Jimmy Saul (Jaul? Simmy?) Just dropped a nuclear bomb on Howard as well. HHM may be losing the partner with the most legal acumen (which will affect client retention), while their costs skyrocket.

Will Howard ever have enough self awareness to reflect on the lack of wisdom in treating Kim so poorly?

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35 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

I don't think that Playah felt that he really had a choice in the matter. When people break into your house and wait for you in the dark, there's an implied threat.  I think he's happy to be making some money here, but would have done it just to be left alone.

Exactly why I said he was stupid/greedy.  I don't know how many months have gone by since Mike had to bail his ass out and get him his card collection back, with him having to give up his vehicle in the deal, but there he is still apparently at the same house and pharmaceutical job, where he could be targeted again.  Why would he think he would be left alone now after a second deal? 

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21 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

We are definitely starting to see that darker/Saul side coming out. I wasn't loving it when Jimmy was pressuring people who clearly couldn't afford it to spend more money. This isn't the same Jimmy who refused to take all of the little old lady's money in season one, when she realized how little she had. This guy is getting desperate and he's willing to really fuck some people over. 

I was so torn in that final scene with the insurance lady. I was like - "Is he really crying? Is he faking? What the fuck is going on here???" - which I think is part of the brilliance of this show, and Saul in general. I think he was genuinely upset at first. But when he realized just HOW much what Chuck did was going to cost him, and continue to keep costing him, he really went for it. Another act of revenge. Jimmy is quick on his feet, so I can see the wheels spinning quickly in his head. 

I can also see Kim's doubt really amping up. She's starting to realize what he's capable of, and isn't really sure where this money is coming from. What's he up to? She's realizing the only way to appease him is to pull some con on a random guy in a bar. She wants to make him happy, but she's not sure she likes where this is going....I'm not sure I do either. 

I couldn't pay super great attention during Mike's scenes because I kept expecting Tamara Tunie's face to morph into a demon (sorry, I never got over The Devil's Advocate). But it seems that attending these support group meetings is ratcheting his guilt back up again, hence getting himself involved with Nacho/Hector. 

I was hoping for more Nacho this week. I REALLY want that storyline to get some traction. But seeing Price bumbling around again was fun. 

Her face morphing was one of the scariest scenes in that movie.  You have this pretty face then...aaaahhhh, out of nowhere. 

One thing that is interesting about Jimmy is that he can show great kindness and humanity, he sort of needs an outside source to keep him in line.  The desire to impress and make Chuck proud kept him off the criminal path and motivated him to get a law degree.  These are things that would have never happened if he was still "Slippin Jimmy" the two bit con artist.   

Just because a guy is acting like an asshole at a restaurant does not mean he deserves to get conned.  Maybe, the guy is having a bad day or what about the person's family (if he has one).  Jimmy had kind of convinced himself that his old cons were victimless crimes that used people's own greed and stupidity against them, but that is simply not true.  There many legal ways that Jimmy could make a living, even without being a lawyer, with his great people skills, but he actively chose being a con man in his former life.    

Now, he is in a desperate situation and is very vulnerable to "slipping" (pun intended) back to his old ways.  The way he looked in the restaurant, where Kim stopped him from running the credit card scam was pure Saul.  It is like a simple logic problem:

Jimmy loves Kim

Kim loves Jimmy

Jimmy will become Saul

Kim hates Saul

Kim will Leave

When she leaves, that will be the end of Jimmy and whatever moral compass she provided.  Kim leaving will be the true birth of Saul.

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When Kim had two chairs set up in the smoking area, I prepared myself for a break-up scene.  Maybe next week.  I've always loved their relationship but I'm ready to see it end now.  I think Kim fell for Jimmy in the mail room, loving his hustle and humor and admiring the self-discipline and work it took to get a law degree online.  She has done everything she can to help him go straight but it isn't working.  He can't or wont come over to her side and every time she slips over to his side, although she feels the excitement in the moment, she feels guilt later and recognizes it for a cheap thrill.  In the bar, when she made it clear to Jimmy that she wasn't really going to take part in any cons, I think  we saw the new, strong Kim who has drawn a line against any further shady stuff.  Her exhaustion from doing Mesa Verde all by herself plus helping Jimmy has taken such a toll on her, I can feel her desperate effort.  I'd like to see her quit both of them and get a job that allows for frills like food and sleep.

Watching Jimmy break mean is also sad.  For once the  actor's aging face was helpful.  When he  snarls a little and lets his smiling Jimmy face fall he can look like a very cruel man.

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48 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

I don't think that Playah felt that he really had a choice in the matter. When people break into your house and wait for you in the dark, there's an implied threat.  I think he's happy to be making some money here, but would have done it just to be left alone.

I agree.  Though, I'm not sure Nacho really meant to threaten him, Daniel perceived it as a carrot or stick deal.  He is doing it mainly out of fear, but is pleased with the money.  The $17K he will net after Mike's cut can buy a lot of baseball cards. 

1 hour ago, JFParnell said:

Oh, could be. I was wondering what info Nacho could have that Mike would need. Mike is a master of the small detail that augurs big things.

Definitely a "table setting" episode, but they found ways to make it work. I actually loved it even though it was mostly nouns and adjectives and hardly any verbs. On some shows, when "nothing" happens ... nothing happens. 

I got the Garner Hartley reference too! (Sort of wish I didn't get it as it means I am less than young :)

Not gonna lie, makeup girl got me -- a nice kid. Touching scene. Would Saul have taken the cash or told her to keep it? 

I like the almost fatherly, sort-of trusting sort-of bond Mike has with Nacho. A bit more than honor among thieves, it seems. I think Mike sees Nacho's "half-in half-out" misgivings about the life he's chosen. Something Mike himself may be feeling right about now. The scenes between those two are always compelling, I find.

Baseball card guy cracks me up - so glad he's back. When he dies, I wonder who will mourn him. I love that he has wised up JUST a smidge but still manages to keep whining about everything.

Why only 10 episodes? Ugh - finally FINALLY this show is starting to really roll and it's almost time for them to leave us, per usual, with too little too late and then 12 months to find out more. The long, big tease. lol

I can't imagine Vince Gilligan killing the Zim Zam Yo-yo Man! :)  I wonder if Gus and Lydia will use his IT skills to make barrels of  methylamine and other precursor disappear from the Madrigal inventory records.   If that is the case, he is probably dead in the BB era or else he would have been on Lydia's list.  Alternatively, maybe he decided to get out of the game earlier and used the vacuum cleaner guy to disappear him. 

 

1 hour ago, SoothingDave said:

I think Kim was maybe trying to sabotage her business with Mesa Verde, cause she feels guilty.  Of course, the lady from MV loves her, so there was none of that happening.  

Subconsciously, perhaps.  She is really feeling guilty about Chuck.  I wonder how much of her lack of sleep is due to that, as opposed to her MV workload?

 

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I don't recall Saul Goodman doing anything vindictive in BB.  I find myself wondering if there is some sort of financial angle to telling the insurance company about Chuck's problems.

At first, I thought maybe he was angling for a refund in exchange for giving the insurance company information about a potentially much greater exposure on a more expensive policy, but by the end I was sure he was just doing it to screw Chuck even further.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Her face morphing was one of the scariest scenes in that movie.  You have this pretty face then...aaaahhhh, out of nowhere. 

One thing that is interesting about Jimmy is that he can show great kindness and humanity, he sort of needs an outside source to keep him in line.  The desire to impress and make Chuck proud kept him off the criminal path and motivated him to get a law degree.  These are things that would have never happened if he was still "Slippin Jimmy" the two bit con artist.   

Just because a guy is acting like an asshole at a restaurant does not mean he deserves to get conned.  Maybe, the guy is having a bad day or what about the person's family (if he has one).  Jimmy had kind of convinced himself that his old cons were victimless crimes that used people's own greed and stupidity against them, but that is simply not true.  There many legal ways that Jimmy could make a living, even without being a lawyer, with his great people skills, but he actively chose being a con man in his former life.    

Now, he is in a desperate situation and is very vulnerable to "slipping" (pun intended) back to his old ways.  The way he looked in the restaurant, where Kim stopped him from running the credit card scam was pure Saul.  It is like a simple logic problem:

Jimmy loves Kim

Kim loves Jimmy

Jimmy will become Saul

Kim hates Saul

Kim will Leave

When she leaves, that will be the end of Jimmy and whatever moral compass she provided.  Kim leaving will be the true birth of Saul.

Yeah, I agree, and Saul is a man who will facilitate huge evil, whereas Slippin'Jimmy restricted his relatively minor financial misdeeds to dishonest, greedy  a-holes he encountered in bars.

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8 hours ago, Knuckles said:

And Mike's daughter in law...not volunteering to help, but leading over the crowd. She was also watching the widow interact with Mike...Since I neither like nor trust said in law, I figure she does not want any competition for Mike's time or money.

I've seen a couple of comments along these lines, but my read on Stacey's behavior was exactly the opposite -- she wasn't manipulating Mike for some selfish purpose, she was trying to help him make friends and possibly even find a girlfriend. I don't think it was an accident that the three helpers she pushed on Mike were two dudes his age and a pretty widow. And I think the reason why Mike softened his "No, no, I'll do it myself" stance is because he realized that's what Stacey was up to.

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7 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

When Kim had two chairs set up in the smoking area, I prepared myself for a break-up scene.  Maybe next week.  I've always loved their relationship but I'm ready to see it end now.  I think Kim fell for Jimmy in the mail room, loving his hustle and humor and admiring the self-discipline and work it took to get a law degree online.  She has done everything she can to help him go straight but it isn't working.  He can't or wont come over to her side and every time she slips over to his side, although she feels the excitement in the moment, she feels guilt later and recognizes it for a cheap thrill.  In the bar, when she made it clear to Jimmy that she wasn't really going to take part in any cons, I think  we saw the new, strong Kim who has drawn a line against any further shady stuff.  Her exhaustion from doing Mesa Verde all by herself plus helping Jimmy has taken such a toll on her, I can feel her desperate effort.  I'd like to see her quit both of them and get a job that allows for frills like food and sleep.

Watching Jimmy break mean is also sad.  For once the  actor's aging face was helpful.  When he  snarls a little and lets his smiling Jimmy face fall he can look like a very cruel man.

Yeah, and Kim's refusal to run cons any longer really adds fuel to Jimmy's rage at the situation he has placed himself. Love how the writers don't let any character off the hook.

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4 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I've seen a couple of comments along these lines, but my read on Stacey's behavior was exactly the opposite -- she wasn't manipulating Mike for some selfish purpose, she was trying to help him make friends and possibly even find a girlfriend. I don't think it was an accident that the three helpers she pushed on Mike were two dudes his age and a pretty widow. And I think the reason why Mike softened his "No, no, I'll do it myself" stance is because he realized that's what Stacey was up to.

I might be naive about Stacey, but I totally agree.  I think she is trying to help Mike get over his son's death and get a life beyond the parking garage, pistachios, Pabst Blue Ribbon and pimento cheese sandwiches.  

I wonder what we will find out about the husband's death.  Was he an innocent victim of the cartel, like Mike's Good Samaritan.  Or was he actually into something illicit when he was out "hiking".  Walt claimed he went out for long walks when he was conducting his meth business.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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47 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

We are definitely starting to see that darker/Saul side coming out. I wasn't loving it when Jimmy was pressuring people who clearly couldn't afford it to spend more money. This isn't the same Jimmy who refused to take all of the little old lady's money in season one, when she realized how little she had. This guy is getting desperate and he's willing to really fuck some people over. 

Yes, those scenes with Jimmy pressuring those people really made me feel uneasy.  I felt especially bad for the lounge chair guy. 

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4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I might be naive about Stacey, but I totally agree.  I think she is trying to help Mike get over his son's death and get a life beyond the parking garage, pistachios, Pabst Blue Ribbon and pimento cheese sandwiches.  

I wonder what we will find out about the husband's death.  Was he an innocent victim of the cartel, like Mike's Good Samaritan.  Or was he actually into something illicit when he was out "hiking".  Walt claimed he went out for long walks when he was conducting his meth business.  

It can be both, and it is a credit to the writers that they portray such complexity.

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43 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

That's a good explanation for why he decided to "go in." I was thinking of something else. After his first meeting with Anita, there was the glimmer of new love in his life, and he went to his job that night with an actual smile on his face (when have we ever seen Mike smile?) and benevolently told pharmaceutical-guy to stay out of any more dealings. But the next time he sees Anita, he discovers that she's still not over her dead/missing husband, and he realizes that his dreams of a relationship with her were just pipe dreams, and he's back to being cynical, hopeless and depressed Mike again, and sees nothing to lose by getting re-involved with pharmacist-guy and Nacho.

I partly agree.  But, I don't think he was becoming cynical, hopeless, depressed Mike again.  I think he was trying to be helpful Mike by finding out what happened to Anita's husband to give her some closure.   I also think that perhaps hearing about her husband being killed and disappearing reminded him of the Good Samaritan who was murdered and restored his desire to see Hector dead.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I partly agree.  But, I don't think he was becoming cynical, hopeless, depressed Mike again.  I think he was trying to be helpful Mike by finding out what happened to Anita's husband to give her some closure.   

I'll be interested to see how that is written. The Gila wilderness that was mentioned is really rugged, and the most likely explanation really is that even a very experienced hiker became injured, died from exposure, and the body was never found. Now, it's possible he ran into the drug trade, and was murdered, but the drug runners would have little institutional recollection of that, even if they were willing to talk about it. The other possibility is that the husband was in the game.

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This episode could almost serve as a textbook definition of a pyrrhic victory.  

Sure, they were breaking out the champagne last episode to celebrate Jimmy "only" being suspended for 12 months instead of being outright disbarred, but what did anybody in this story win?  Kim is fraying at the seams over what they had to do to Chuck to get that win, as well as knowing that Jimmy absolutely was guilty of what Chuck accused him of for her to have this one giant client that's still mostly making it possible to keep the lights on.  (Maybe I'm paranoid, but Mesa Verde this episode was giving me serious shades of Lucky Strike on Mad Men and I keep waiting for that shoe to drop.)  Despite last week's optimism over his tacky Saul Goodman commercial that he should at least break even, he's having to get increasingly pushy and desperate making terrible cheap commercials and not even covering his costs.  Despite what he's telling Kim, he is eating up what's probably left of his Clifford & Main money to keep his half of a law office he can't legally practice in open.  The community service sucks and is eating into his time to try to get other things going.  Now he finds out that not only can he not get the money he already spent on insurance he can't use back but oh by the way, you're looking at paying more than double to keep it going if you figure out how to get through this next year and are still in any place where you can still try to practice law then.  But Jimmy "won," right?

You could really see that wearing on him throughout the episode.  It's what made the scene in the bar so scary, both for Kim and for us to watch as it became apparent that Jimmy wasn't playing anymore.  He was practically seething at the various rich assholes being so casual with throwing money around as he was seeing the narrowing of any possible avenues for him to get through these next 12 months with any sense of prestige or dignity that usually goes with being a lawyer who would be with someone like Kim intact. 

What's interesting to me is that the insurer should probably know that Chuck is "on medical leave" for what are obviously mental issues but is still practicing law and exposing himself and clients to risk.   Pages upon pages have been spent here just on his less than optimal working conditions and handling of client files.  If Jimmy and then Howard hadn't been so willing to run interference time and time again, Chuck probably would have been committed long before now rather than arguing with a client about their own address in a hearing.  Without knowing how many insurers there are for lawyers and whether it's a regional thing, it's impossible to know whether Jimmy could have any idea he and Chuck were insured by the same company.  So while I don't believe Jimmy went there intending to use Chuck's condition to go after Chuck, I can see how after getting yet another door slammed in his face on the insurance front he saw an opening and took it, making sure to mention that "it's all in the transcripts" between the crocodile tears.

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8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I'll be interested to see how that is written. The Gila wilderness that was mentioned is really rugged, and the most likely explanation really is that even a very experienced hiker became injured, died from exposure, and the body was never found. Now, it's possible he ran into the drug trade, and was murdered, but the drug runners would have little institutional recollection of that, even if they were willing to talk about it. The other possibility is that the husband was in the game.

I am thinking he might have been in the game.  Walter White used to tell his wife he was out taking walks in the in the desert, to cover up for his meth business activities.

From the cancer support group scene in "Crazy Handful of Nothin'": 

"Well I like to be alone, I mean at times, and it's not about you, really. It's just that sometimes it feels better not to talk at all about anything, to anyone. Alone time can be helpful for some types. Maybe knowing what you do when you're alone might make it easier for your family to be more accepting of whatever it is you do alone. Well I like to go on walks a couple of times a week, maybe more, after work, And I really enjoy the nature. You know, the cacti, the vegetation, that kind of thing."

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1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Now that I think about it, HHM's failure to disclose to the legal malpractice insurer the conditions in which a partner, Chuck, was doing HHM's work, and handling clients' documents, is really going to hammer HHM's insurance costs, even if Chuck is sent to the sidelines. Jimmy Saul (Jaul? Simmy?) Just dropped a nuclear bomb on Howard as well. HHM may be losing the partner with the most legal acumen (which will affect client retention), while their costs skyrocket.

Will Howard ever have enough self awareness to reflect on the lack of wisdom in treating Kim so poorly?

I thought it was Chuck pulling Howard's strings when Kim was sent to doc review hell.  

I thought the same thing about hhm's handling of confidential information.  It was a discussion at trial and I don't think the insurance company will be very happy about that.  Should be interesting.

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Wow. Jimmy is a good actor. Those tears! But the whole thing was an act! I like Jimmy, but he's a vindictive bastard at times.

He wouldn't be so vindictive if he was able to keep his head above water.  He is running out of options and money.  If he is going down, it is no surprise that he wants to take Chuck down with him. 

Jimmy is also pissed at the world.  Anyone who Jimmy thinks acts like Chuck, is someone who Jimmy is more than willing to target and take down.

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25 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

This episode could almost serve as a textbook definition of a pyrrhic victory.  

Sure, they were breaking out the champagne last episode to celebrate Jimmy "only" being suspended for 12 months instead of being outright disbarred, but what did anybody in this story win?  Kim is fraying at the seams over what they had to do to Chuck to get that win, as well as knowing that Jimmy absolutely was guilty of what Chuck accused him of for her to have this one giant client that's still mostly making it possible to keep the lights on.  (Maybe I'm paranoid, but Mesa Verde this episode was giving me serious shades of Lucky Strike on Mad Men and I keep waiting for that shoe to drop.)  Despite last week's optimism over his tacky Saul Goodman commercial that he should at least break even, he's having to get increasingly pushy and desperate making terrible cheap commercials and not even covering his costs.  Despite what he's telling Kim, he is eating up what's probably left of his Clifford & Main money to keep his half of a law office he can't legally practice in open.  The community service sucks and is eating into his time to try to get other things going.  Now he finds out that not only can he not get the money he already spent on insurance he can't use back but oh by the way, you're looking at paying more than double to keep it going if you figure out how to get through this next year and are still in any place where you can still try to practice law then.  But Jimmy "won," right?

You could really see that wearing on him throughout the episode.  It's what made the scene in the bar so scary, both for Kim and for us to watch as it became apparent that Jimmy wasn't playing anymore.  He was practically seething at the various rich assholes being so casual with throwing money around as he was seeing the narrowing of any possible avenues for him to get through these next 12 months with any sense of prestige or dignity that usually goes with being a lawyer who would be with someone like Kim intact. 

What's interesting to me is that the insurer should probably know that Chuck is "on medical leave" for what are obviously mental issues but is still practicing law and exposing himself and clients to risk.   Pages upon pages have been spent here just on his less than optimal working conditions and handling of client files.  If Jimmy and then Howard hadn't been so willing to run interference time and time again, Chuck probably would have been committed long before now rather than arguing with a client about their own address in a hearing.  Without knowing how many insurers there are for lawyers and whether it's a regional thing, it's impossible to know whether Jimmy could have any idea he and Chuck were insured by the same company.  So while I don't believe Jimmy went there intending to use Chuck's condition to go after Chuck, I can see how after getting yet another door slammed in his face on the insurance front he saw an opening and took it, making sure to mention that "it's all in the transcripts" between the crocodile tears.

An interesting possibility is that Kim, getting stretched too thin, increasingly worried about what association with Jimmy entails, approaches Schweikert. Schweikert would love to still bring her in, now that Mesa Verde is more happy than ever about retaining Kim.

Assuming Schweikert has more brains than Howard, and really pitches Mesa Verde that Kim's role at Schweikert is going to first and foremost handling Mesa Verde's business, it's a win for all parties, and Schweikert would happily pay off the lease at Kim and Jimmy's office.

Jimmy would likely see this as a huge betrayal, however, and it may be the end of the relationship, which may be in part what Kim wants.

7 minutes ago, toodles said:

I thought it was Chuck pulling Howard's strings when Kim was sent to doc review hell.  

I thought the same thing about hhm's handling of confidential information.  It was a discussion at trial and I don't think the insurance company will be very happy about that.  Should be interesting.

Chuck may have been, even after Kim landed Mesa Verde, and if so, Howard's a dope to let it happen.

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16 minutes ago, toodles said:

I thought it was Chuck pulling Howard's strings when Kim was sent to doc review hell.  

I thought the same thing about hhm's handling of confidential information.  It was a discussion at trial and I don't think the insurance company will be very happy about that.  Should be interesting.

I don't know if it was 100% clear, but I got the impression that it was Howard keeping Kim in doc review, not Chuck (as originally suspected).  After Kim helped land MV, Chuck said something to Howard along the lines of "I guess she's out of the doghouse now?" and Howard replied, "We'll see."  

As much as I like Kim, I don't really blame Howard for putting her in doc review.  She was the one who talked him into the very foolish idea of recommending Jimmy to D&M.  Then, (as far as Howard knows, because she didn't tell him the whole story) she failed to inform Howard that Jimmy was running an unauthorized TV ad, in D&M's name.  These things clearly caused Howard a great deal of embarrassment with D&M and harm to his reputation.  

Would it be reasonable for Howard to continue to fully trust Kim?  I think she would have eventually gotten out of doc review purgatory, but I think Howard needed to see more before she earned back his trust.  

Just like Ernie with Chuck, when you side with a friend to the detriment of your boss, you should expect negative consequences at work.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

An interesting possibility is that Kim, getting stretched too thin, increasingly worried about what association with Jimmy entails, approaches Schweikert. Schweikert would love to still bring her in, now that Mesa Verde is more happy than ever about retaining Kim.

Assuming Schweikert has more brains than Howard, and really pitches Mesa Verde that Kim's role at Schweikert is going to first and foremost handling Mesa Verde's business, it's a win for all parties, and Schweikert would happily pay off the lease at Kim and Jimmy's office.

Jimmy would likely see this as a huge betrayal, however, and it may be the end of the relationship, which may be in part what Kim wants.

I can really see this happening. Kim was very hesitant about private practice, especially with Jimmy. It was a big "no" in season one, when he floated the idea. I think she likes the idea of calling her own shots, but as the strain of shouldering it all becomes more and more apparent, she might really enjoy the idea of working for a big firm again. I would bet she's already considered it. But it too scared of what leaving would mean for her and Jimmy. 

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.  The delicious irony that Mr. By-the-Book is about to get reamed by the rigged laws and regulations which protect insurers and typically are used to screw the low and powerless (like Jimmy in his present circumstance).

Yes, Chuck will get hoisted on his own petard. I also thought that the insurance lady will start spreading the word about Chuck to others in the insurance industry, it will become general knowledge in the professional community and the gossip will hurt whatever might be left of Chuck's career, as well as the reputation of HHM. Moral judgment aside, it was a brilliant move by Saummy.

I had to laugh about Playah driving around town in an inconspicuous family van, a long way from his "blazing" Hummer.

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Just now, ghoulina said:

I can really see this happening. Kim was very hesitant about private practice, especially with Jimmy. It was a big "no" in season one, when he floated the idea. I think she likes the idea of calling her own shots, but as the strain of shouldering it all becomes more and more apparent, she might really enjoy the idea of working for a big firm again. I would bet she's already considered it. But it too scared of what leaving would mean for her and Jimmy. 

Bringing Mesa to Schweikert would likely put Kim on a strong partnership path there. It really is in her interest, and Mesa's to make the call.

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1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, and Kim's refusal to run cons any longer really adds fuel to Jimmy's rage at the situation he has placed himself. Love how the writers don't let any character off the hook.

Yes, this is a real credit to the writers.  There's a lot of shades of gray and they let you make up your own mind on the characters and their motivations.

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1 minute ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Yes, Chuck will get hoisted on his own petard. I also thought that the insurance lady will start spreading the word about Chuck to others in the insurance industry, it will become general knowledge in the professional community and the gossip will hurt whatever might be left of Chuck's career, as well as the reputation of HHM. Moral judgment aside, it was a brilliant move by Saummy.

I had to laugh about Playah driving around town in an inconspicuous family van, a long way from his "blazing" Hummer.

The insurer likely is going to cancel HHM's policy, along with Chuck's individual coverage. One of the first question on a malpractice insurance application, at least in the financial services industry in which I am part of, is "Have you ever had a policy cancelled for nondisclosure?" Answer "yes" to that, and you're lucky if you're insurable at all, and you'd be thrilled to only be looking at a 150% increase in premiums.

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I'm left to wonder if Mike wants to "borrow" the widow's missing husband's military uniform.

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2 minutes ago, rhys said:

I'm left to wonder if Mike wants to "borrow" the widow's missing husband's military uniform.

I don't think so.  When she mentioned a uniform, he thought her husband was a cop, and probably wondered if  he had been killed in the line of duty.  I'm sure Mike could get a military uniform through other sources, if he wanted, especially given that he is apparently a former Marine.

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Something that doesn't ring true to me about Jimmy's TV commercial pitches: He seems to be trying to get the potential customers to sign up for packages of multiple ads, but only plans on running each ad ONCE. That is, he's selling a combination of a produced ad and a time slot for it. Isn't the usual practice for one ad to run dozens, if not hundreds of times to see how it works, and then to consider possibly doing another one? I can't imagine that a small business would ever consider shelling out for six or seven different commercials at one time. 

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I loved the information that the ads Jimmy was running were airing during Murder She Wrote reruns.  Great continuity of course and a logical problem when it comes to selling the airtime to companies that don't exactly cater to elderly customers.

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15 minutes ago, Bannon said:
Quote

 

Yes, Chuck will get hoisted on his own petard. I also thought that the insurance lady will start spreading the word about Chuck to others in the insurance industry, it will become general knowledge in the professional community and the gossip will hurt whatever might be left of Chuck's career, as well as the reputation of HHM. Moral judgment aside, it was a brilliant move by Saummy.

I had to laugh about Playah driving around town in an inconspicuous family van, a long way from his "blazing" Hummer.

 

The insurer likely is going to cancel HHM's policy, along with Chuck's individual coverage. One of the first question on a malpractice insurance application, at least in the financial services industry in which I am part of, is "Have you ever had a policy cancelled for nondisclosure?" Answer "yes" to that, and you're lucky if you're insurable at all, and you'd be thrilled to only be looking at a 150% increase in premiums.

I wondered about this.  I know in the first season the official line was that Chuck was on "medical leave" and there wasn't much sense that he was at all active in much of anything with HHM.  Howard would periodically go through the motions of saying how much they'd all love him to come back to work and Chuck would wave him away.  So probably nobody was thinking much about insurance issues.  Chuck didn't start dabbling in practicing law again until Jimmy tried to interest in him in some of his elder law stuff and they stumbled onto Sandpaper, which Chuck then immediately and deliberately blew up into a class-action too big for a solo lawyer like Jimmy to handle.  That got HHM involved and Chuck back off the shelf on days his foil lined suit was working for him.

IIRC, the guys at Schweikert acknowledged to Kim that Chuck's situation wasn't exactly a well keep secret, so members of the Albuquerque legal community already have some idea.  But they wouldn't know he's actively practicing law anyway because the only time we've seen him in any hearing situation outside of Jimmy's disbarment case was the Mesa Verde fiasco.  It sounds like what before might have been a quiet "Have you heard about Chuck McGill?" while remaining outwardly sympathetic is about to blow up into "What the hell were they thinking at HHM?"

I'm so happy for the return of Playa.  He's such a terrible criminal on every level, but at least he seems to have learned his lesson with the Hummer.

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11 hours ago, benteen said:

I was very glad that the community service guy only credited Jimmy with 30 minutes performance.  Jimmy deserved that one.

If they were never told that they can't use phones, then I think the guy was being a huge jerk. He had pressured Jimmy not to read what he was signing (and there were lots of people waiting, so I can certainly understand Jimmy not reading it thoroughly.) Under those circumstances, the guy owed it to Jimmy to let him know that time on his cell phone doesn't count.

As for whether Jimmy went into the insurance office with the intention of screwing over Chuck - I think he did. He told the woman he didn't know his policy number - after he'd very recently been on the phone with them many times. And he only gave his last name, which made it far more likely she'd find Chuck's policy and mention him.

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8 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

If they were never told that they can't use phones, then I think the guy was being a huge jerk. He had pressured Jimmy not to read what he was signing (and there were lots of people waiting, so I can certainly understand Jimmy not reading it thoroughly.) Under those circumstances, the guy owed it to Jimmy to let him know that time on his cell phone doesn't count.

As for whether Jimmy went into the insurance office with the intention of screwing over Chuck - I think he did. He told the woman he didn't know his policy number - after he'd very recently been on the phone with them many times. And he only gave his last name, which made it far more likely she'd find Chuck's policy and mention him.

I think the Parks Dept guy should have docked Jimmy something, but 7/8ths of his hours. He should have at least credited him for an hour or 2.  I also agree he should have warned him.

I had assumed Jimmy screwing Chuck with the insurance agent was a spur of the moment thing, but after reading similar comments to yours on Reddit, I started to wonder if he had planned it all along.   Either way, it was pretty low, very un-Jimmy-like and very Saul-like.  

I wonder if this could somehow backfire on Jimmy (or Kim).  I could see the insurance company starting an investigation into the MV incident and perhaps guilty conscience Kim finally confessing that Jimmy doctored the files, or perhaps taking the blame herself. 

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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12 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I wondered about this.  I know in the first season the official line was that Chuck was on "medical leave" and there wasn't much sense that he was at all active in much of anything with HHM.  Howard would periodically go through the motions of saying how much they'd all love him to come back to work and Chuck would wave him away.  So probably nobody was thinking much about insurance issues.  Chuck didn't start dabbling in practicing law again until Jimmy tried to interest in him in some of his elder law stuff and they stumbled onto Sandpaper, which Chuck then immediately and deliberately blew up into a class-action too big for a solo lawyer like Jimmy to handle.  That got HHM involved and Chuck back off the shelf on days his foil lined suit was working for him.

IIRC, the guys at Schweikert acknowledged to Kim that Chuck's situation wasn't exactly a well keep secret, so members of the Albuquerque legal community already have some idea.  But they wouldn't know he's actively practicing law anyway because the only time we've seen him in any hearing situation outside of Jimmy's disbarment case was the Mesa Verde fiasco.  It sounds like what before might have been a quiet "Have you heard about Chuck McGill?" while remaining outwardly sympathetic is about to blow up into "What the hell were they thinking at HHM?"

I'm so happy for the return of Playa.  He's such a terrible criminal on every level, but at least he seems to have learned his lesson with the Hummer.

That's the infraction that'll get HHM/Howard caught in the vise; the failure to disclose to tbe insurer that Chuck was practicing again, and the conditions in which he was practicing. Very good writing to have the insurance angle play such a critical role.

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10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Still, I can't imagine that Chuck's insurance would go up as much as Jimmy's or that HHM couldn't afford to cover it

I suspect Chuck will become uninsurable; therefore, making him unable to practice.

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40 minutes ago, rhys said:

I'm left to wonder if Mike wants to "borrow" the widow's missing husband's military uniform.

That's was exactly my first thought

also I thought Mike was burying money in the church playground that's why he didn't want help because the scene before it showed him reaching into his money stash. 

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1 minute ago, Lion18 said:

That's was exactly my first thought

also I thought Mike was burying money in the church playground that's why he didn't want help because the scene before it showed him reaching into his money stash. 

I thought he used the money to buy the supplies, concrete, shovels,trowels, wheelbarrows, wood for forms, etc. That could have easily added up to hundreds if not thousands of dollars. They did say that they wanted to help because it's not fair that he both pay for it and do all the work. 

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9 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The breakdown wasn't for real - it helped Jimmy segue naturally into mentioning how worried he was about his sick brother, whose crazy testimony is on record at the Bar, (but please forget that he mentioned it.)

I don't think the tears were real, but I think that Jimmy hitting his breaking point was. A lot of what he said was true. And I think he really is devastated.

I think that when he saw that the insurer was happy to prey on his vulnerability (whether before he got to the actual office or after), he decided to play up that vulnerability and dangle Chuck's vulnerability in front of insurance agent, too, knowing that she wouldn't be able to resist going in for the kill. IMO the tactic was actually similar to Chuck playing up his illness in order to manipulate Jimmy. Jimmy really is vulnerable, just like Chuck really is ill...but playing it up in order to manipulate was a conscious tactic.

It's interesting to me that Jimmy crying those crocodile tears is the only time we've seen him cry at all over losing his relationship with Chuck. Even when he was talking to Kim about it, he was nothing but hardened and angry. I almost wonder if he needed the con in order to express his (less violent and wrathful) feelings about the loss. Maybe he can only express his actual pain within the context of a con game, because the con gives him a buffer or some distance from the raw feelings themselves. But then, I think that becoming stone-cold and refusing to feel anything but rage/greed is also a way of creating a buffer or distance from feelings of pain, too. (And Chuck does the same thing IMO -- I think that's why he was driven to scapegoate Jimmy in the first place).

9 hours ago, Bannon said:

We saw the first sign of Kim seeing very unattractive traits in Jimmy McGill. We see Jimmy getting worn down, bringing those unattractive traits to the forefront.

I don't know if she was really less attracted to him per se. I think she was realizing that SHE isn't the person she wants to be when she's with him, though.

And I think she also doesn't know how to deal with "Saul." IMO when Jimmy flipped out at her about not feeling bad for Chuck and putting him in her rearview, she was shocked. I usually don't really think about how little physical affection they show to each other, but IMO it was startling that she didn't touch him at that point. I don't even mean anything romantic, even a hand on the shoulder.

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33 minutes ago, benteen said:

 

I loved the information that the ads Jimmy was running were airing during Murder She Wrote reruns.  Great continuity of course and a logical problem when it comes to selling the airtime to companies that don't exactly cater to elderly customers.

 

Yes, because JIMMY was clearly targeting the elderly. I'm wondering why he isn't seeking out other businesses that would have old, MSW-watchers for their demographic? Music store? Bad fit for that time slot. 

 

22 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

As for whether Jimmy went into the insurance office with the intention of screwing over Chuck - I think he did. He told the woman he didn't know his policy number - after he'd very recently been on the phone with them many times. And he only gave his last name, which made it far more likely she'd find Chuck's policy and mention him.

Ooooh, good catch. I'm not viewing that scene differently. 

Just now, rue721 said:

I don't know if she was really less attracted to him per se. I think she was realizing that SHE isn't the person she wants to be when she's with him, though.

I think she's realizing how different their levels of attraction "the con" are. She may have thought they were just having fun, horsing around that one week. I think she got it out of her system and was ready for them to move on to the next stage of life - serious, working adults, living together- building a life. She's seeing just now NATURAL it is for Jimmy to revert to "the con", and maybe realizing they're not so well suited after all. 

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I dunno.  Just some personal ramblings....

I thought there was a little too much turn in the wheel for a single episode.   Seems like Mike, Kim and Saul (formerly Jimmy!) each turned very far in a single direction pretty quickly.  It was a little disruptive to the pace of the show for my tastes.    But hey.  So long as the show doesn't dump Kim, Chuck, and Howard on the side of the road in favor of more gang-bang stuff, I'm ok.  It's the former that I've found so good and fascinating about the show.

Honestly, we saw plenty of the jack-em-up drug stuff in BB and that's where it belonged.  The story was about Walter White who was an active player in the drug trade game.  Saul is different.  He's an attorney for the the trade and therefore more on the outskirts than Walter.  Seems his story should be different - driven more by relationships, etc. than by drug deals gone bad.  

Although, it took us 3 seasons to get to this point and I recall an interview with Gilligan in which he says he thinks it will take about the same number of seasons as BB to tell the story of how Jimmy becomes Saul, then we have 2 left.  I guess that's not a lot really - and there should be room and time for more Kim, Howard, and Chuck.  These 3 have plenty more story to tell I think.

If Jimmy really wants revenge on Chuck, he'd commit him and take custody and cash him out of HHM, right?  How come he doesn't do that?

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

....Love how the writers don't let any character off the hook.

This senctence captures the nature of the drama for both BB and BCS. 

Seems things might get get pretty dark in the final episodes of Season 3.

Edited by Jextella.
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29 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

She's seeing just now NATURAL it is for Jimmy to revert to "the con", and maybe realizing they're not so well suited after all. 

I don't think that she was really sitting in judgement of Jimmy, though. Just like when she saw the Saul Goodman commercial, I think that when she heard Jimmy talk about the con so seriously and bitterly, it startled her and made her think, "do I even know this guy?"

I don't think she *dislikes* Saul at all, but I think she realizes that he's a stranger to her. And I think that what really freaks her out is the idea that even if she feels like he's a stranger, they're already entangled and wrapped up together (and have even run cons together!) -- which IMO makes her feel like she's a stranger to herself. Or that she's not who she thought she was.

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6 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I dunno.  Just some personal ramblings....

I thought there was a little too much turn in the wheel for a single episode.   Seems like Mike, Kim and Saul (formerly Jimmy!) each turned very far in a single direction pretty quickly.  It was a little disruptive to the flow of the show for my tastes.    But hey.  So long as the show doesn't dump Kim, Chuck, and Howard on the side of the road in favor of more gang-bang stuff, I'm ok.  It's the former that I've found so good and fascinating about the show.

Honestly, we saw plenty of the jack-em-up drug stuff in BB and that's where it belonged.  The story was about Walter White was a player in the drug scene.  Saul is different.  He's an attorney for the the trade and therefore more on the outskirts than Walter.  Seems his story should be different - driven more by relationships, etc. than by drug deals gone bad.  

Although, it took us 3 seasons to get to this point and I recall an interview with Gilligan in which he says he thinks it will take about the same number of seasons as BB to tell the story of how Jimmy becomes Saul, then we have 2 left.  I guess that's not a lot really - and there should be room for more Kim, Howard, and Chuck.  These 3 have plenty more story to tell I think.

If Jimmy really wants revenge on Chuck, he'd commit him and take custody and cash him out of HHM, right?  How come he doesn't do that?

This senctence captures the entirety of the drama for both BB and BCS. 

Seems things are gonna get dark in the next two seasons.

I doubt Jimmy has any ability to do that at this point.  I don't think the authorities would allow Jimmy to have that sort of power over Chuck, given that he gave a signed confession of crimes against Chuck to get the PPD and has had his law license suspended for a year.  I would think, if necessary, the court would appoint a different guardian for Chuck, possibly Howard.  

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't know if it was 100% clear, but I got the impression that it was Howard keeping Kim in doc review, not Chuck (as originally suspected).  After Kim helped land MV, Chuck said something to Howard along the lines of "I guess she's out of the doghouse now?" and Howard replied, "We'll see."  

As much as I like Kim, I don't really blame Howard for putting her in doc review.  She was the one who talked him into the very foolish idea of recommending Jimmy to D&M.  Then, (as far as Howard knows, because she didn't tell him the whole story) she failed to inform Howard that Jimmy was running an unauthorized TV ad, in D&M's name.  These things clearly caused Howard a great deal of embarrassment with D&M and harm to his reputation.  

Would it be reasonable for Howard to continue to fully trust Kim?  I think she would have eventually gotten out of doc review purgatory, but I think Howard needed to see more before she earned back his trust.  

Just like Ernie with Chuck, when you side with a friend to the detriment of your boss, you should expect negative consequences at work.  

If everbody got put into doc teview after a job recommendation didn't work out (without rehashing whether skillful management could have, as I maintain, extracted considerable profit from an association with Jimmy on the Sandpiper class action), half the world's lawyers would be in doc review. This is before we get to the abject idiocy of keeping her there after she landed Meda Verde. Newsflash to Howard: competing law firms find associate lawyers who have landed clients like Mesa to be very attractive, and there's a nonnegligible chance that Kim's relationship with Mesa is a very important factor in solidifying Mesa as a HHM client for the long term. It is simply inept to continue to punish  Kim after landing Mesa.

Edited by Bannon.
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11 minutes ago, Jextella said:

If Jimmy really wants revenge on Chuck, he'd commit him and take custody and cash him out of HHM, right?  How come he doesn't do that?

He might have done that previously, but he didn't want to do that to Chuck and still felt a familial bond back when he was in the hospital.  But now, if Chuck starts to recognize and get treatment for his problems as was at least suggested when he went to make a phone call to the neurologist (or ER doc) who examined him, then it would be a harder case to make that he is a danger to himself or others, especially if he corrects the dangerous stuff in his house. 

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10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If everbody got put into doc teview after a job tecommendation didn't work out (without rehashing whether skillful management could have, as I maintain, extracted considerable profit from an association with Jimmy on the Sandpiper class action), half the world's lawyers would be in doc review. This is before we get to the abject idiocy of keeping her there after she landed Meda Verde. Newsflash to Howard: competing law firms find associate lawyers who have landed clients like Mesa to be very attractive, and there's a nonnegligible chance that Kim's relationship with Mesa is a very important factor in solidifying Mesa as a HHM client for the long term. It is simply inept to continue to punish  Kim after landing Mesa.

Kim lost Howard's trust by convincing him to recommend Jimmy, and more importantly, by (as far as he knows) not informing him about the unauthorized ad (of course, she didn't know it was unauthorized, but she didn't tell Howard that).  Howard could have just fired her, but instead he gave her a chance to earn back his trust.  MV was a great step, but Howard evidently thought he needed to see more.  He was probably more concerned with her being forthcoming with him and making good decisions than with her bringing in new business.  New business is great, but trust is essential.  

She went out on a limb for Jimmy.  When you go out on a limb and things don't work out, the limb often  breaks and you hit the ground, hard.  Jimmy is the one who screwed her.  He deceived her into thinking the D&M ad was approved and left her twisting in the wind with Howard.  Then he pulled all his shenanigans at D&M to get fired, further embarrassing Howard and hurting Kim.  Howard has been much better to Kim than Jimmy has.  

Edited by Bryce Lynch.
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38 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I thought there was a little too much turn in the wheel for a single episode.   Seems like Mike, Kim and Saul (formerly Jimmy!) each turned very far in a single direction pretty quickly.  It was a little disruptive to the flow of the show for my tastes.    But hey.  So long as the show doesn't dump Kim, Chuck, and Howard on the side of the road in favor of more gang-bang stuff, I'm ok.  It's the former that I've found so good and fascinating about the show.

 

I quite like the divide of the episodes and pacing.  Last week Kim and Jimmy were celebrating their "win" and putting a good spin on what they'd done and how it would be all right.  Jimmy was so up from that win that he wouldn't even consider that anything about their office setup should have to change just because he wouldn't be practicing law and thus bringing in any income from that for a full 12 months.  He'd make some commercials.  They'd get it by.  To bastardize his eventual new name, it would all be good because the worst didn't happen.

Now reality is setting in.  He's picking up pee bottles and underwear on a stick on the side of the road and not even getting full credit for it.  The commercial stuff isn't really working out and it's turning him into a grubby pushy car salesman.  Maybe he's not fully aware that Kim is starting to look at him differently, but maybe he is.  He can see the respectable life that's supposed to accompany the suit slipping through his fingers.  Not only is the money not coming in, he doesn't have any real good prospects for it in the foreseeable future.  And he's got 12 months of this to look forward to, at the end of which he now knows it's going to be even harder and more expensive to get back into practice.

He's angry, so very angry about the shit hand he's now holding.  And while we could go around and around arguing for days and pages more about who did what to who and who did it first and who's really at fault, the fact remains that Jimmy blames Chuck now with the same blazing intensity Chuck blames Jimmy for everything.   I find that believable in the same way I find it believable that Kim isn't feeling so great about it all now that she's had a little time to think about it.  That she already suspects Jimmy isn't making bank and may not be able to hold up his half of the business also means that's now on her shoulders as well.  Remember this is a woman who fantasized about getting a place halfway between Albuquerque and Sante Fe when she thought she and Jimmy were going to be a two Big Law firm power couple.

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I'm left to wonder if Mike wants to "borrow" the widow's missing husband's military uniform.

I think he is far more interested in finding out what happened to her husband.  Somehow, I get the feeling that her husband was murdered.

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6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think he is far more interested in finding out what happened to her husband.  Somehow, I get the feeling that her husband was murdered.

Maybe her husband is still alive and faked his death to get away from her. She's pining for her lost love and he left her.

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