S01.E17: The Ninth Seat 2017.04.19

8 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Then again, these guys walk around with a copy of their "Pax Americana" terrorist manifesto in their pockets...

And on the dashboard of their vehicle, clearly visible to passers-by...

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On 4/20/2017 at 9:35 AM, Happy Harpy said:

A nice filler.

Loved Linda Purl and her character (of course, it's the doomed one, sigh) and she looked very good. I was Wait, she's supposed to be older than Kirkman? It's so nice to see an actress in her sixties who doesn't look like a walking Botox commercial.

It was good to see Kirkman finally bang his fist on the table but why did he have to waste it with an inspiration speech afterwards? Just kick their ass and put the fear of Jack Bauer The President into them, FFS!

They seem to have a villain with Bowman.  But maybe by the end of the season he'll be drinking the Kirman Power of Love Kool-Aid.

Isn't Rob Morrow supposed to be a good actor? He was fractionally better in his scene with Hookstraten and Aaron, otherwise he speaks and I see William Shatner.

Unsurprisingly, my favorite scenes involved Aaron and Kimble. But didn't she say last week that she didn't particularly want to be Vice-President? I like that Emily is more of a hardball player but yes, I'd like Aaron to be less obliging. Nice scene with Reed Diamond's character for a moment I had the feeling that FBI and Politicians were actually living in the same universe [sarcasm]. I also like Seth and Emily as a team. I don't feel like the writers know where they're going, so I'd rather see more of those characters I enjoy.

I love Maggie Q and Malik Yoba but Mulder and Scully they aren't. And what a disappointment in the end. It's episode 17. Someone everybody knows and remembers should have been in that helicopter. Fail, show. Major fail.

This show doesn't dare. That's its other problem. The political intrigue can't be captivating if it stays at the level of My Little Poney, Friendship is Magic. It can't be a thriller if every reveal falls flat after much hyping. It's a pity.

 Been ages since I've seen Linda Purl.  She looks great.

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Has Rob Morrow always squinted his lines?  His acting choices are making me wish he was the next one to get blown up.

Reed Diamond is looking more and more like Prince Charles these days. But, as a Homicide fan, he can do no wrong in my world.

I thought helicopter bad guy was Bowman too. Wish it was the ex President, New Secretary of State. That's a villain I could get behind.

Bowman is too cartoonishly eville. All he needs is a mustache to twirl. 

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Man, I didn't even realize till the end that Alex wasn't even in this episode, and that was because I was wondering if she would end up being in the helicopter.  Nothing against Natascha McElhone, but the entire First family really doesn't leave much of an impression.  I'm already more invested in Kirkman's friendship with Julia, and hoping she comes back again.  Her revealing that she had early on-set dementia was probably the best acted scene so far on this show (for both Linda Purl and Kiefer Sutherland.)

The partisan posturing over the Supreme Court Justices was better then last week's gun control debate, but I knew Kirkman would still find some way to work it all out.  Did love him finally losing his cool for a bit and yelling at everyone to sit their asses down.  I'm glad he's a reasonable guy, but I'm all for a little more aggression from him.

I understand why Emily wants to keep all her options open for Kirkman's VP, but playing around with Kimble and Aaron like that, is probably not a good idea.

Abe may be right, but he's such a dick about it, that I kind of enjoy watching him scramble.  I do think he's setting himself up for an early grave if he isn't careful.  I'm curious about the voice over the phone, because that sounded a lot like John Billingsley, and I'm hoping its him.

Hannah and Jason discover a cult in North Dakota, and that Lorenzo is still alive.  Hmm....

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10 hours ago, Diana Berry said:
On 4/20/2017 at 0:35 PM, Happy Harpy said:

 

Unsurprisingly, my favorite scenes involved Aaron and Kimble. But didn't she say last week that she didn't particularly want to be Vice-President? I like that Emily is more of a hardball player but yes, I'd like Aaron to be less obliging. Nice scene with Reed Diamond's character for a moment I had the feeling that FBI and Politicians were actually living in the same universe [sarcasm]. I also like Seth and Emily as a team. I don't feel like the writers know where they're going, so I'd rather see more of those characters I enjoy.

I love Maggie Q and Malik Yoba but Mulder and Scully they aren't. And what a disappointment in the end. It's episode 17. Someone everybody knows and remembers should have been in that helicopter. Fail, show. Major fail.

This show doesn't dare. That's its other problem. The political intrigue can't be captivating if it stays at the level of My Little Poney, Friendship is Magic. It can't be a thriller if every reveal falls flat after much hyping. It's a pity.

 Been ages since I've seen Linda Purl.  She looks great.

I agree that Linda Purl looked great and I also enjoyed her role in this. I'm just a tad sad that it's to be a short one (at least it seems that way although they could show how her early onset dementia could interfere with her decision making process causing POTUS to have to kibosh something that she does because her judgement on it might be off). It seemed like a one and done guest role when her last words to him were something to the effect of 'remember me like this...or this way' (sorry I can't give you a verbatim). I think the role of her stepping in a a SCJ had potential and I loved the mutual respect that hers and Kirkmans characters portrayed. Opportunity missed? 

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10 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I agree that Linda Purl looked great and I also enjoyed her role in this. I'm just a tad sad that it's to be a short one (at least it seems that way although they could show how her early onset dementia could interfere with her decision making process causing POTUS to have to kibosh something that she does because her judgement on it might be off). It seemed like a one and done guest role when her last words to him were something to the effect of 'remember me like this...or this way' (sorry I can't give you a verbatim). I think the role of her stepping in a a SCJ had potential and I loved the mutual respect that hers and Kirkmans characters portrayed. Opportunity missed? 

Is it too much to ask that it be a misdiagnosis?

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2 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

Is it too much to ask that it be a misdiagnosis?

If this was House, you might get your wish.

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They could always invoke "she has a twin..."

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On April 20, 2017 at 8:02 AM, PreviouslyTV said:

Republican lawmakers hope to stop the president from appointing a ninth Supreme Court justice. Like that would ever happen.

Quote

. . . Wells and Atwood venture into the small, fictional town of Driggs, North Dakota to see what they can learn from interacting with the locals. What they find is a lot of out of state license plates, awkward conversation, and copies of a mysterious manifesto entitled Pax Americana. Learning that some kind of shindig is apparently going down at the missile silo, they quietly gatecrash the party and are just in time to see the guest of honor: the dreaded Catalan, who was supposedly killed on Acting President McLeish's orders while Kirkman was in surgery! So I guess we can amend the list of the late Vice President's accomplishments to zero. . . .

View the full article

Or it might be that MacLeish ordered Catalan's assasination knowing that his death would be faked; this makes more sense to me at this point.

 

On April 20, 2017 at 2:30 PM, piequinn35 said:

Bowman

mark_deklin_a_p.jpg

Catalan

CrWzvBqXYAA2W7C.jpg

Did you not know that they are bros, just kidding. :))

Why kid? If they're not bros, the casting is a ginormous red herring. I mean, would it be too shark jumpy if they were right wing brothers, with one working through political means, and the other more Waco?

 

Rob Morrow's acting didn't seem out of sync with the rest of the show to me, but maybe they are planning to off his character, so he's trying to channel the impending death?

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On 4/19/2017 at 11:01 PM, janeta said:

OK, so someone please remind me who NL is?

And i too am more interested with what's going on out in ND than the machinations in the oval.

I love the secret cult story in North Dakota. Hannah was shrewd in stealing the guidebook

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On 4/20/2017 at 0:11 PM, Princess Lucky said:

Definitely paranoia. I loved that detail, it told us a lot about Abe.

 

I thought of all 3 of them! I was expecting a huge reveal, so either Hookstraten or the FLOTUS would have worked, and then I also considered Bowman, whose strategic rise is a little too convenient. So the actual reveal was underwhelming.

Much like the episode itself. It was better than last week, because I found the Supreme Court issue a lot more interesting (and the solution was smart and fun), but still. Underwhelming. I thought the Abe scenes were all out of place, but I also thought, "Hey I'd watch that show! About a paranoid Rob Morrow chasing shadows!" And the Hannah/Jason Atwood scenes were fun but so jarring as cutaways to "boring" politics scenes.

This show is trying to be too many things at once. It's not just the number of storylines, it's the difference in tone. If you cut one episode in half (i.e. Politics vs Conspiracy with a side of Curmudgeonly Rob Morrow) you'd get 2 perfectly consistent 20-minute episodes of 2 very different shows. Hannah/Atwood and even Rob Morrow are working on an X-Files-lite show (down to Deep Throat, this week), and Kiefer is on The West Wing Lite. This can't go on. There is zero coherence at this point. Even the Al-Sakar storyline is old news to us viewers, but half of the characters don't know (I think). Something's gotta give.

I vote to keep the Conspiracy and Rob Morrow trying to crack it (at least that'd be entertaining to watch). The Politics side is lagging, save for Kiefer's acting. Aaron has been defanged, as has Hookstraten (kind of), Emily is competent but drama-free and Seth is hilarious but doesn't do much. I, like many here, want to like this show, but the writing is making it hard for me.

I think the politics part of the show is depressing. It's West Wing for dummies. The Supreme Court story was stolen from real life. No one brought up the consequences of a 4-4 court. It was ridiculous.

Seth is out of the Loup for a press secretary. I like Aaron & Hookstraten & Morrow.

Wouldn't the Pax Americana group be more suspicious of strangers driving up to the gate?

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They were suspicious of them driving up, but then Hannah asked them what they were going hunting for and the woman visibly relaxed. 

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Maybe it's just me but, while I appreciated the acting, I think the early-onset-dementia scene would have had more of an impact on me as a viewer if we had ever met Julia before. We didn't, did we, and I forgot?

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On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 9:45 PM, dbell1 said:

Reed Diamond is looking more and more like Prince Charles these days. But, as a Homicide fan, he can do no wrong in my world.

I'll watch anything with a "Homicide: Life on the Streets" cast member at least once. Darn good ensemble cast.

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On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 2:23 AM, Mama No Life said:

So this means that either Lozano either had a decoy at the invasion or the SEALs were in on it. 

That. It would also explain why Macleish who never so hard as his wife was able to give an order to kill his buddy in the army - he actually didn't it but on the contrary helped him to flee. 

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 5:08 AM, Danielg342 said:

the little bit of side eye I have to give at the allusion to Athens and the Roman Empire (I'm not sure Roman democracy fell so suddenly and I'm not sure either the Republic or Athens even was a democracy as we'd know it, but those are separate debates) because it just felt so cool. 

On the contrary, Athens was a democracy but only for citizens, i.e. for free males, exluding women, slaves and foreign-born, whereas Rome was a republic.  

The book "Pax Americana" explained somewhat the ideology of the conspiracy: they are against big business and foreign wars and willing to make any sacrifices. So when Macleish was an acting President and didn't shut the stock market, he didn't plan to favor the rich investors but on the contrary to blacken them in people's eyes. 

At least now it's sure that the conspiracy is American.   

On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 9:42 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Abe needs to be a whole lot more paranoid.  Opening an unknown internet link on your office computer?  Boom.  Yeah, it worked out, but that's only because it was in the script.  

Unfortunately, we weren't told what conclusion Abe made on the basis of the link. Does he believe that Hannah actually shoot Macleish or even that she worrked with Catalan?

I think that Kirkman acted in a quite irresponsible way by refusing to arrest Abe if the premise was that he endangered national security. On the other hand, as the conspiracy is American, it could be good that the public learned of it, because it could made people to fight for their government.

I am only afraid that Abe is going to fall in the trap of the conspirators. Maybe they plan to give him information such a way that it blackens Kirkman's government. Kirkman has kept some things secret (the leader of al-Sakara was murdered in prison, Macleish ordered to kill rather than capture the assassin, Macleish and his wife were conspirators). Although Abe has won Pulitzer, he has lately lost his reputation by believing bad sources and he longs for fame, so he could easily be used.       

On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 7:35 PM, Happy Harpy said:

It was good to see Kirkman finally bang his fist on the table but why did he have to waste it with an inspiration speech afterwards? Just kick their ass and put the fear of Jack Bauer The President into them, FFS!

A man with real authority needs never bang his fist on the table. On the contrary, if he wants others listen to him, he lowers his voice.

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 3:46 PM, PsychoDrone said:

Hannah and Atwood are so out of place, it's ridiculous.  How many black and asian people, apart or separate, appear in rural North Dakota?  After failing the test, the group would have been watching them closely.

I agree and only add that they would know them already as Mysterious Lady dealt earlier with Atwood and saw Hannah in security camera.  

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On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 7:11 PM, Princess Lucky said:

This show is trying to be too many things at once. It's not just the number of storylines, it's the difference in tone. If you cut one episode in half (i.e. Politics vs Conspiracy with a side of Curmudgeonly Rob Morrow) you'd get 2 perfectly consistent 20-minute episodes of 2 very different shows. Hannah/Atwood and even Rob Morrow are working on an X-Files-lite show (down to Deep Throat, this week), and Kiefer is on The West Wing Lite. This can't go on. There is zero coherence at this point. Even the Al-Sakar storyline is old news to us viewers, but half of the characters don't know (I think). Something's gotta give.

 I agree.

It seems that the screenwriters wants Kirkman to succeed with some trick or loopholes. After he consented to the governors' demand to refuse the foreigners's entry to the USA, he has never had to do hard decisions, whether to sacrifice his principles or his power.

BTV, I was astonished to see the POTUS and a middle-aged woman to drink beer from the bottle. Have they no manners?    

On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 7:35 PM, Happy Harpy said:

This show doesn't dare. That's its other problem. The political intrigue can't be captivating if it stays at the level of My Little Poney, Friendship is Magic. It can't be a thriller if every reveal falls flat after much hyping. It's a pity.

I agree.

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 6:25 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Regarding the helicopter, I would assume, however, that a group this well funded and equipped would utilize a more stealthy system for approach control than lighting up several bonfires that can be seen all the way back in town.  Even setting up the cars so that the headlights illuminate the landing zone would be more appropriate. 

Was there even no reason why Catalan had to arrive? Shouldn't it be more sensible for him to stay in hsi hiding place until next assasination. Or is he the leader of the conspiracy? But in that case, the less know of his identity, the better.  

On ‎22‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 9:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I understand why Emily wants to keep all her options open for Kirkman's VP, but playing around with Kimble and Aaron like that, is probably not a good idea.

No, it makes Kimble Kirkman's enemy. Which isn't a bad idea in the show.

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On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 4:16 AM, Blue Plastic said:

I, too, thought it was Bowman in the helicopter until I did a double take.  This show has a habit of showing you a character once or twice for a few moments and then not again until several months later - and they expect you to remember who it is and be shocked!  The pacing is off.  I actually managed to remember who Catalan was but only because McLeish tried to have him killed and I thought at the time that since we didn't see a body, he might not be legitimately dead.

Am I the only one who recognized Catalan's face at once?

I agree with you the it's no good that the characters are presented and then forgotten for several episodes. In addition, it would have been wiser for Hannah to say "Catalan" as that name was first used of Lozano - one shouldn't change names. And one shouldn't chose actors who resemble each other, either.  

As I was quite bored of "the nameless enemy", I was not surprised that somebody who was supposed killed wasn't.

Spoiler

The next episodes's title "Lazarus" was a clear hint, too. 

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2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Am I the only one who recognized Catalan's face at once?

No, I knew who it was immediately as well.

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On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 6:26 AM, Frozendiva said:

I liked the judge recusing herself from the appointment and explaining her health condition and of course, being greeted with compassion but the unlikely President.

I wasn't impressed. Isn't "I am sorry" an automatic answer? To me, compassion isn't that one speaks about one's own feelings but reflects those of the other. 

In addition, she was Kirkman's old friend - it didn't demand anything extraordinary of him. It would have been another matter if she had been his enemy and he would have won the memories how she had hurt, even betrayed, him in the past. 

Also, I can't really be interested in the fate of someone who the show has have just presented. 

Lastly, if she had difficulties in memory, why did she accept Kirkman's task? How could she be sure that she wouldn't make mistakes that would hurt him politically?

That said, did she make a mistake by not checking well enough the ninth judge whom Bowman said was in fact a Liberal.    

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On 4/23/2017 at 10:11 PM, MaryPatShelby said:

Maybe it's just me but, while I appreciated the acting, I think the early-onset-dementia scene would have had more of an impact on me as a viewer if we had ever met Julia before. We didn't, did we, and I forgot?

Ruh-roh...

 

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:
On 4/22/2017 at 2:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I understand why Emily wants to keep all her options open for Kirkman's VP, but playing around with Kimble and Aaron like that, is probably not a good idea.

No, it makes Kimble Kirkman's enemy. Which isn't a bad idea in the show.

But isn't Emily doing exactly what Aaron would have done?  I would have liked for him to acknowledge that she was playing "the game" well.

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

That said, did she make a mistake by not checking well enough the ninth judge whom Bowman said was in fact a Liberal.    

There's a liberal and there's a "Bowman liberal" -- someone who isn't deep in the pocket of the NRA.  A lot of people are "single-issue voters" and for Bowman it's "2A rights" -- any attempt to make guns safer is met with shrieks and howls.

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1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

But isn't Emily doing exactly what Aaron would have done?  I would have liked for him to acknowledge that she was playing "the game" well.

It depends. Making Kimble an enemy isn't a good result for Kirkman needs her support.

Also, one can only play that trick once for after that you can't make any deals.  

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On ‎20‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 7:11 PM, Princess Lucky said:

Aaron has been defanged, as has Hookstraten (kind of), Emily is competent but drama-free and Seth is hilarious but doesn't do much. I, like many here, want to like this show, but the writing is making it hard for me.

Aaron, Emily and Seth are all nice, but nothing more, which makes them boring.

They need a motivation and a goal of their own which is contradictary with those of the others (or KIrkman), so that they must do difficult choices.    

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Quote

It was good to see Kirkman finally bang his fist on the table but why did he have to waste it with an inspiration speech afterwards? Just kick their ass and put the fear of Jack Bauer The President into them, FFS!

This! He's such an exhausting goody two shoes.

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The show really failed at the helicopter reveal when it appears that a good majority of viewers (judging from comments here) had no idea who that was.  I thought it looked like Senator Bowman.  

 

This is where diversity in casting is so helpful.

Also the Hollywood preference for pretty faces leads to confusion.

If anyone watches British television, not just the Downton Abbey stuff, but made for domestic consumption programmes like Coronation Street or Mrs. Brown's Boys, every actor has a distinct and different face, even though the casts are overwhelmingly white (as is Britain of course, even today).

 

Also, there may be a fair amount of helicopter and light aircraft traffic in the region - things like power and pipe line inspections for instance, plus anyone looking for a quick way to travel some of the larger distances out west.

Anyone else remember this show? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_King

Lastly, if she had difficulties in memory, why did she accept Kirkman's task? How could she be sure that she wouldn't make mistakes that would hurt him politically?

My favourite author is Sir Terry Pratchett, who died last year rather than wait for even more effects of his early onset Alzheimer's.

After his diagnosis, he wrote three more books (with help since he forgot how to type) and at least two of them were still very high quality. The last felt rushed.

She was looking for the long picture. She might have been fine for two or three years, especially with adminsitrative help, but even a decade would be pushing the limits.

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On ‎28‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 0:26 AM, femmefan1946 said:

The show really failed at the helicopter reveal when it appears that a good majority of viewers (judging from comments here) had no idea who that was.  I thought it looked like Senator Bowman.  

This is where diversity in casting is so helpful.

Also the Hollywood preference for pretty faces leads to confusion.

If anyone watches British television, not just the Downton Abbey stuff, but made for domestic consumption programmes like Coronation Street or Mrs. Brown's Boys, every actor has a distinct and different face, even though the casts are overwhelmingly white (as is Britain of course, even today)

Also the names must of the characters should differ clearly from one other. No Mary and Margot, but Mary and Emily. And definetely not two names for the same person, like Catalan and - what was it - yes, Lozano. 

Of course we have seen him before mostly in photos and rarely alive. He looked different in prison before he gave poison to the the leader of al-Sakara and when he shot the president - I didn't regocnize him when he opened the door. It was strange that he didn't then have disguise of any kind but I guess it was for the audience.   

Edited by Roseanna.

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Mr. Femme thought he was Angel from Buffy the Vampire Hunter.  Which might have made the boring conspiracy a little more interesting.

Wasn't KS in a vampire movie back in the day?

That would be an unusual twist.

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3 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

Wasn't KS in a vampire movie back in the day?

The Lost Boys

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On 4/20/2017 at 0:35 PM, Happy Harpy said:

Someone everybody knows and remembers should have been in that helicopter. Fail, show. Major fail.

THIS.   

I'm waiting for someone big, joking that it will be on the Kirkman kids, guy steps out, and I'm all, "who?"

Hannah FBI lady:  Oh, that's the guy who shot the president, that McLeish order to kill in that raid

Me:  Thank you Hannah FBI lady.

It's a major fail if your big surprised baddie is someone no ones remembers or can place on their own.  

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On 4/21/2017 at 0:08 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

Better yet, Wyatt. 

Anyone but Wyatt! I am absurdly happy with him as Kirkman's assistant.

Although he has been MIA for several episodes.....

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