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S03.E01: Mabel 2017.04.10

12 minutes ago, Bannon said:
18 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Finally, who would want to warn Mike off of killing Hector? It almost seems like someone trying to protect Mike rather than someone caring about what happens to Hector (because if it was an ally of Hector, why not just kill Mike?), but I can't think of anyone other than Jimmy that would fit that description. My husband thought it might be the Philly cops tracking him, but I don't remember enough about that story to know if that is possible or makes sense. 

Its Gus, and I think it is likely that it is Gus because Gus wants to extract his own revenge on Hector, after extracting as much profit as possible. If you aren't familiar with the Breaking Bad universe, of course, you dont know this. 

I did think of Gus, though I don't remember the details of why he wanted revenge on Hector. I just didn't think Gus was part of the story yet, considering the BB vs. BCS timeline. Hopefully this will become clearer in the next episode(s). 

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3 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I did think of Gus, though I don't remember the details of why he wanted revenge on Hector. I just didn't think Gus was part of the story yet, considering the BB vs. BCS timeline. Hopefully this will become clearer in the next episode(s). 

Spoiler

Hector murdered Gus' partner, right in front of Gus.  It was revealed in a BB flashback, when Hector and Gus were younger, before Gus was resident of the United States.

I suspect it will be revealed that Nacho is in league with Gus, or Gus has Nacho and Hector under surveillance, which is how he came to be aware of Mike's activities.

Edited by Bannon.
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9 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

Thanks! But what was the difference between a dash and a semi-colon that had Kim thinking so hard? What was the text?

It's about client confidentiality. The two sentences in are: "And yet, compliance with these laws does not negate our duty to safeguard the confidentiality of our customers. Mesa Verda employs strict procedure tor ensure that only relevant data is shared in order to protect the private, personal information that is entrusted to us."

In this case, using a colon instead of the dash wouldn't really change the meaning of the second sentence through context - you could read it in the way that Mesa Verda only employs strict procedure to safeguard  the confidentiality of their customers instead of having it as a general principle regardless (the reading the dash encourages), which doesn't really change much for the intented reader (who is probably a client of Mesa Verda and mainly cares about his privacy). Thus I agree with other who pointed out that Kim is just especially detail obsessed right now.  

 

54 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It seems like "Gene" still has a thing for Kim all those years later.  He had a Kansas City Royals lunchbox and Kim wore a Royals shirt in an earlier episode.  I doubt that is a coincidence.  I wonder if it had belonged to her.

Great catch! Yeah, I'm sure they put that in on purpose. Of course they could just get our hopes up to crush them in the finale with a downer ending, but if they're doing that, well, what can I do, they'll totally get me.

 

7 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

That was my question too.  But I guess he had to go get the extra car at some point, and maybe when he first bought it or whatever, they tracked him with his main car and switched the gas cap after he left it to be used later?  Definitely a little confusing, but I have a vague sense of "story checks out".

That's absolutely plausible. They never spoonfeed us these things, we'll have to work it out for ourselves and it seems your conclusion must be the correct one. This is also one reason why the show moves so slowly at times - they have to give us time to figure out what's happening and what the implications are. I needed Mike to slowly take apart the car, so I could think about what he could do once he finds the tracker. Afterwards, we get confirmation in the scene with the I'm-not-Radioshack-guy and eventually see it all come together while Mike's eating pistachios.

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11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Its Gus, and I think it is likely that it is Gus because Gus wants to extract his own revenge on Hector, after extracting as much profit as possible. If you aren't familiar with the Breaking Bad universe, of course, you dont know this. 

I am also almost sure Gus arranged to have the "Don't" note put on the car.  It will be interesting to find out exactly why.  I also think it could be because he personally wants to take vengeance on Hector.  It could also be that he still needs him at this point, or that he fears the cartel will blame him if Hector is killed, or a combination of all 3.  

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4 minutes ago, Bannon said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Hector murdered Gus' partner, right in front of Gus.  It was revealed in a BB flashback, when Hector and Gus were younger, before Gus was resident of the United States.

I suspect it will be revealed that Nacho is in league with Gus, or Gus has Nacho and Hector under surveillance, which is how he came to be aware of Mike's activities.

Yeah, it has to be one of the two. Usually I'd say it's the latter, but Nacho was designed as a series regular and I guess it was with the intention of being the one who introduces Mike to Gus.

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But then I was thinking he looked a little unwell (but who over age 40 looks good in black and white close-up?) and wondered about that, although his lunch appetite seemed fine.  Maybe he's going down the same road that Chuck did.  Somehow I don't think Cinnabon will be as accommodating as HHM.

I couldn't help but notice how skinny Odenkirk looked during the Gene scenes and I suspect now that that was intentional.

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6 minutes ago, Paloma said:

After rewatching most of season 2 and then this episode, I've concluded that Chuck really is the "bad" brother. Jimmy may do some bad things, but he is fundamentally a good person and loyal to those he cares about (especially Chuck), even at the risk of hurting himself (such as when he ran over to the copy shop after Chuck fell). When Jimmy transposed the numbers in the file, I think he was focusing on reversing the wrong done to Kim and did not realize how extreme an effect the consequences would have for Chuck.

I'm not sure there is really a "good brother" and a "bad brother".   

Both Chuck and Jimmy have their admirable and bad qualities.  If the story was being told from Chuck's perspective we might hate the devious, swindler little brother of his.  

Chuck really wasn't "wrong" to not want Jimmy to be a lawyer, given what he knows about his past, his character and the fact that he "graduated" from the University of American Samoa ("Go, Land Crabs!")  Chuck sees the law as sacred and worked very, very hard at it, then he sees Jimmy cut corners to get the same profession he has.  He is right to fear what Jimmy might use his position as a lawyer to do.  

At the same time, he pushed Jimmy toward the dark side, by scheming against him, rejecting him instead of encouraging or mentoring him.  I think part of Chuck's problem is that he knows too much about Jimmy to see that he has changed and has the potential to be a good lawyer.  Then again, Jimmy shows signs that he is still a swindler at heart, so maybe Chuck is right.  

Gilligan and the BB/BCS creators love to have morally ambiguous characters.  Even the really bad characters usually have some positive qualities (e.g. Nazi Jack Welker cares about his nephew and has a sort "honor among thieves" code).   I noticed a little splash of this with the vet who is running the criminal temp service.  Despite being involved in arranging for hitmen and such, he genuinely cares about animals, as shown by his concern over whether Mike's dog was getting enough attention.   

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The 10 p.m. on a school night slot is killing me.  I dozed off somewhere in Mike's adventures in car disassembly so I'm still piecing that all together on rewatch this morning.

This was a bit of a slow one out of the gate but that's not necessarily a terrible thing.  If I had any remaining doubts last year, this one cemented for me that before this is all over that Chuck's obsession with ruining Jimmy will probably also destroy him, take out Kim, Ernesto, and possibly Howard and HHM as collateral damage, and give Jimmy the final hard shove he needs to become a criminal lawyer.  I never expected the taping of Jimmy's confession to lead to something as mundane as arrest or prosecution but it's interesting that Howard, for all of his years of working with both brothers, doesn't realize that and isn't thinking beyond what Chuck could legally do with it.  He really still doesn't get what he's dealing with with Chuck.  But then even now, Jimmy really doesn't either, which is how we get the gutwrenching scene of him still trying to draw on their shared childhood to get back in Chuck's good graces because he thinks this is just another round of tit for tat between brothers and not much bigger than that.

Kim's scene could best be described as it's about the punctuation but it's not really about the punctuation.  She may not want to talk about it, but she can't be unaware that the nonpartnership partnership with Jimmy has much higher costs in actuality than it did in theory.

The opening on Gene is making me anxious to see what happens to him.  But since we only get one that one brief glimpse at the beginning of each season, this will go down as one of the longer teases ever.  Gene is clearly suffocating in that life with his packed grade school lunch and generic cola and it obviously rattled him how easily he dimed out the kid in the photo booth.

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We know that Nacho is interested in working his own, side business with being in the employ of Tio...we saw that in past seasons...so his knowing Gus would not be implausible. And Gus is meticulous...remember his first meeting  with Jesse, he watches people carefully...so he might well be tracking Nacho as well as Tio, and caught Mike in his sights as well.

Gus could have gone after Tio many times on BB, especially in the nursing home, but Gus wanted to wait...to draw it out, to take the full measure of revenge. That says to me it was Gus. I am so looking forward to seeing the initial meeting between Mike and Gus as they size one another up.

5 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Chuck's obsession with ruining Jimmy will probably also destroy him, take out Kim, Ernesto, and possibly Howard and HHM as collateral damage,

The perfect illustration of the old saying that if you are gunning for revenge, bring two shovels.

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It's funny how we all call Ernie, "Ernesto" when only pretentious Chuck calls him that on the show (I bet Chuck would call George Costanza's doorman, "Sam-YU-EL", too).  I think Chuck is passive aggressively controlling all of us. :)

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12 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

We know that Nacho is interested in working his own, side business with being in the employ of Tio...we saw that in past seasons...so his knowing Gus would not be implausible. And Gus is meticulous...remember his first meeting  with Jesse, he watches people carefully...so he might well be tracking Nacho as well as Tio, and caught Mike in his sights as well.

Gus could have gone after Tio many times on BB, especially in the nursing home, but Gus wanted to wait...to draw it out, to take the full measure of revenge. That says to me it was Gus. I am so looking forward to seeing the initial meeting between Mike and Gus as they size one another up.

The perfect illustration of the old saying that if you are gunning for revenge, bring two shovels.

I always forget it is Hector "Tio" Salamanca.

Spoiler

Back in the BB run, I just assumed it was a random stroke that put Hector in a nursing home/wheelchair. Now I suspect that Gus had a role in inflicting brain damage on Hector. Poisoning? Gus is a chemist/chemical engineer by education, if I remember correctly, and it was of course poisoning which facilitated his decapitation of the cartel.

Edited by Bannon. Reason: spelling
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I just hope Ernesto comes out of this okay and doesn't lose his job because of Chuck.

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30 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I just hope Ernesto comes out of this okay and doesn't lose his job because of Chuck.

The way Chuck treats Ernesto is an indication to me on just how bad of a person he is.

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3 minutes ago, benteen said:

The way Chuck treats Ernesto is an indication to me on just how bad of a person he is.

Yup. He is so condescending. Even back in season one about the apples. "Do you need to write this down?" Ernie is SO beneath him. Chuck is definitely a snob. 

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Chuck thinks nearly everyone is beneath him.  In his mind, he did everything right, worked hard, built a brilliant career successful enough to put his name on a building, etc., so he sees that as his right.  And to be fair, he is incredibly smart.  But he's also incredibly needy in wanting acknowledgement of it.  That's why sometimes I get the sense that he probably would have done his best to kneecap Jimmy even if Slippin' Jimmy hadn't been part of the equation.  

Edit to add:  I seriously doubt Chuck is thinking of Ernesto at all beyond a means to an end.  He brings him groceries and runs his errands.  If he ends up being collateral damage in his war against Jimmy,  Chuck will probably blame Ernesto for liking Jimmy in the first place and hope the next person assigned to the job will be more properly loyal to him.

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25 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Chuck thinks nearly everyone is beneath him.  In his mind, he did everything right, worked hard, built a brilliant career successful enough to put his name on a building, etc., so he sees that as his right.  And to be fair, he is incredibly smart.  But he's also incredibly needy in wanting acknowledgement of it.  That's why sometimes I get the sense that he probably would done his best to kneecap Jimmy even if Slippin' Jimmy hadn't been part of the equation.  

Oh, absolutely. A Chuck who truly loved his brother would have had a decent chance of mentoring Jimmy in a way that stunted Jimmy's worst qualities, while encouraging the development of Jimmy's best qualities, which are significant and obvious. Chuck, however, obtains great pleasure in his feeling of moral superiority over Jimmy, no matter how unearned that feeling is. I suspect it is due to his belief that what he perceives to his parents' greater affection for Jimmy was completely unearned. I also won't be surprised if it is eventually revealed that Chuck's wife at one time made a pass at Jimmy; remember the flashback where Chuck was enraged when his wife found Jimmy to be charming? 

Chuck hates Jimmy, and lacks even the honesty with himself to admit it to himself. This show makes me laugh all the time, but it may be the saddest show I've ever been a regular watcher of. That's indicative of terrific writing.  

Edited by Bannon.
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41 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I seriously doubt Chuck is thinking of Ernesto at all beyond a means to an end.  He brings him groceries and runs his errands.  If he ends up being collateral damage in his war against Jimmy,  Chuck will probably blame Ernesto for liking Jimmy in the first place and hope the next person assigned to the job will be more properly loyal to him.

Ernie is more than collateral damage, though. He lied to Chuck about how Jimmy got to the copy shop the night his brother was injured, and Chuck certainly knows it. Ernie is in the path of his righteous indignation, not his indifference.

Edited by Dev F.
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Good point.  With Jimmy's confession, Chuck gets confirmation that Ernie lied for him.  But as always, Chuck's ire with Ernie starts with him liking Jimmy in the first place.  So much of his motivation is how dare everyone not see Jimmy the way I see Jimmy.

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1 minute ago, Bannon said:

Oh, absolutely. A Chuck who truly loved his brother would have had a decent chance of mentoring Jimmy in a way that stunted Jimmy's worst qualities, while encouraging the development of Jimmy's best qualities, which are significant and obvious. Chuck, however, obtains great pleasure in his feeling of moral superiority over Jimmy, no matter how unearned that feeling is. I suspect it is due to his belief that what he perceives to his parents' greater affection for Jimmy was completely unearned. I also won't be surprised if it is eventually revealed that Chuck's wife at one time made a pass at Jimmy; remember the flashback where Chuck was enraged when his wife found Jimmy to be charming? 

Chuck hates Jimmy, and lacks even the honesty with himself to admit it to himself. This show makes me laugh all the time, but it may be the saddest show I've ever been a regular watcher of. That's indicative of terrific writing.  

I think it is overly simplifying things to say Chuck "hates" Jimmy.  I think he resents him, is jealous of him, does not trust him and is often embarrassed by him, but I am not sure he really "hates" him.  If Chuck hates Jimmy so much, why did he rescue him from the Chicago Sunroof mess?  

When he spoke to Kim about Jimmy in a prior episode, he said something to the effect that "Jimmy is not a bad person, but he just can't control himself".  I think Chuck has been hurt and disappointed by Jimmy (and probably saw their parents hurt and disappointed by him) and that has made it impossible for him to trust Jimmy (at least not as a lawyer).  He reminds me of Fring in BB when he tells Walt, "You can never trust a drug addict.".

While it is partly based upon logic,  there is a lot of pettiness and jealousy in Chuck's attitude towards Jimmy.  He feels like "Jimmy always got away with everything" and "Everyone always loved Jimmy more, while I deserved to be loved more."  I think the idea that Jimmy did all the shady things he did for so many years, and is "getting away with it" again by becoming a successful lawyer irritates Chuck to no end.  That is what makes Chuck's character so great, he has both legitimate and bad motivations, and he is not able to tell them apart.

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6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Chuck hates Jimmy so much, why did he rescue him from the Chicago Sunroof mess?  

I forget, but didn't that happen years ago?  I think that since that incident, with the passage of time, Chuck has grown to actually hate Jimmy.  You can see it in his face. 

Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that poor Ernesto is going to wind up getting screwed. 

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16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think it is overly simplifying things to say Chuck "hates" Jimmy.  I think he resents him, is jealous of him, does not trust him and is often embarrassed by him, but I am not sure he really "hates" him.  If Chuck hates Jimmy so much, why did he rescue him from the Chicago Sunroof mess?  

When he spoke to Kim about Jimmy in a prior episode, he said something to the effect that "Jimmy is not a bad person, but he just can't control himself".  I think Chuck has been hurt and disappointed by Jimmy (and probably saw their parents hurt and disappointed by him) and that has made it impossible for him to trust Jimmy (at least not as a lawyer).  He reminds me of Fring in BB when he tells Walt, "You can never trust a drug addict.".

While it is partly based upon logic,  there is a lot of pettiness and jealousy in Chuck's attitude towards Jimmy.  He feels like "Jimmy always got away with everything" and "Everyone always loved Jimmy more, while I deserved to be loved more."  I think the idea that Jimmy did all the shady things he did for so many years, and is "getting away with it" again by becoming a successful lawyer irritates Chuck to no end.  That is what makes Chuck's character so great, he has both legitimate and bad motivations, and he is not able to tell them apart.

Getting the person you believe to be morally inferior, and who you hold in contempt, out of a jam, is very, very, often what a passive aggressive control freak like Chuck does. It allows the passive aggressive person to lord it over the object of contempt for eternity. 

Don't get me wrong. Chuck has fine qualities as well. He is a brilliant lawyer with great regard for legal ethics, and that provides considerable benefit to society. The only personal relationship you want to have with Chuck, however, is as a partner or client. 

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17 minutes ago, Ohwell said:
Quote

If Chuck hates Jimmy so much, why did he rescue him from the Chicago Sunroof mess?  

I forget, but didn't that happen years ago?  I think that since that incident, with the passage of time, Chuck has grown to actually hate Jimmy.  You can see it in his face. 

Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that poor Ernesto is going to wind up getting screwed. 

I can't remember if it's been said outright or just strongly implied that it was after Chuck got him out of that he basically moved him out to Albuquerque and set him under his watchful eye in the HHM mail room.  It was acknowledged in the flashback about it that their mother called Chuck to come rescue him.  I've always gotten the sense that had Jimmy stayed in what Chuck considered his rightful place slaving away in obscurity in the mail room that things might have never escalated beyond a general resentment of his ne-er do well brother that people insisted nonetheless on liking when he didn't deserve it.  It all blew up when Jimmy unexpectedly sprang his newly acquired law degree and expectation that they could work together as potential equals on him.

I think everybody caught up with either of them is going to get screwed before it's all over with.

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Just now, Ohwell said:

I forget, but didn't that happen years ago?  I think that since that incident, with the passage of time, Chuck has grown to actually hate Jimmy.  You can see it in his face. 

Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that poor Ernesto is going to wind up getting screwed. 

Yes, it happened several years before.  But, I don't think Chuck really started to violently resent Jimmy when Jimmy started to become a successful lawyer.  He secretly used Howard to deny Jimmy a job as an attorney at HHM, but he seemed content enough to watch Jimmy struggle to scrape by, working out of the storage room in the nail salon.   

He also has always seemed very concerned about Jimmy tarnishing the McGill name.  Back early in season 1, Chuck told Jimmy that "Hamlin" didn't want him using the McGill name (and even told him Howard would probably spring for new business cards and matchbooks if he changed the firm name).  In hindsight, it is obvious that Chuck didn't want Jimmy to practice under the McGill name.  

Chuck and Jimmy have a very complicated relationship. 

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Just now, Bannon said:

Getting the person you believe to be morally inferior, and who you hold in contempt, out of a jam, is very, very, often what a passive aggressive control freak like Chuck does. It allows the passive aggressive person to lord it over the object of contempt for eternity. 

Don't get me wrong. Chuck has fine qualities as well. He is a brilliant lawyer with great regard for legal ethics, and that provides considerable benefit to society. The only personal relationship you want to have with Chuck, however, is as a partner or client. 

I largely agree.  But, if Chuck had a younger brother who had been a responsible, respectable person, all his life, rather than a grifter, who conned people with slip and falls, coin scams, and who stole (though maybe not as much as Chuck thinks) from their father's business, would he have such contempt for that brother?  Maybe.  Perhaps he would have found a reason to hold that brother in contempt, but we will never know, as his only brother was pretty much a lovable scumbag most of his life.  

I think the word "contempt" that you used fits much better than "hate".  I remember in "Searching for Bobby Fischer" then mean chess instructor told the boy that he needed to feel contempt for his opponents and explained that it meant he had to think they were beneath him.  That is what I think Chuck feels towards Jimmy (and perhaps the whole world), not that he hates them, but that they are beneath him.

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11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But after thinking about it and watching Talking Saul, his freakout was a way to make sure that Ernesto knew what he heard was important. 

Great.  We have to avail ourselves of supplemental content, again, to determine what the show we just watched "meant".  While I love the way TV has improved over the years, this is one aspect I don't care for.

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I loved this ep.  A lot.  I am in no hurry whatever to get to full-on Saul.

Agreed; I am loving the process. And speaking of being in a hurry to get somewhere, my UO is that I'm not going squee, or squeal, or clap, or whatever when Gus Fring becomes part of this story.  He was a great character on BB, definitely, and I'll be very interested to see the back story.  But I don't watch this show looking for BB sightings.

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Drudgery is the right word for last night's Better Call Saul.  Really, they needed 13 minutes to reveal what Mike was doing when it was obvious from the start?

You must be more mechanically inclined than me, and maybe some of the earlier commenters, because I had no clue what Mike was doing.  I'm not convinced that I do now but I've appreciated the explanations. I think not knowing might have made it better for me, because I kept feeling a level of tension throughout Mike's scenes.

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I think the thing that has defined Mike to me has always been the lesson he learned about "Half-Measures". That said I wasn't surprised that the show producers made us go thru the tedium of watching Mike completely disassemble the wagon to be sure how anyone could know where he was. Him spotting the gas cap on the sales rack was an aha! moment straight out of "The Usual Suspects".

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22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I largely agree.  But, if Chuck had a younger brother who had been a responsible, respectable person, all his life, rather than a grifter, who conned people with slip and falls, coin scams, and who stole (though maybe not as much as Chuck thinks) from their father's business, would he have such contempt for that brother?  Maybe.  Perhaps he would have found a reason to hold that brother in contempt, but we will never know, as his only brother was pretty much a lovable scumbag most of his life.  

I think the word "contempt" that you used fits much better than "hate".  I remember in "Searching for Bobby Fischer" then mean chess instructor told the boy that he needed to feel contempt for his opponents and explained that it meant he had to think they were beneath him.  That is what I think Chuck feels towards Jimmy (and perhaps the whole world), not that he hates them, but that they are beneath him.

Oh, I'm not saying that Chuck's contempt/hatred for his brother has no basis. The basis exists, in spades. An older brother primarily motivated by love of his brother, however, would have had a real chance to guide his younger brother in the right direction, or at least in a better direction. This isn't to excuse Jimmy, or to strip him of his agency. Jimmys condition is Jimmy's responsibility. We all need the love of others, however. Jimmy really loved Chuck, and a better world would have resulted if Chuck had the same love for Jimmy.  

6 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I think the thing that has defined Mike to me has always been the lesson he learned about "Half-Measures". That said I wasn't surprised that the show producers made us go thru the tedium of watching Mike completely disassemble the wagon to be sure how anyone could know where he was. Him spotting the gas cap on the sales rack was an aha! moment straight out of "The Usual Suspects".

I loved the sequence, because it got to the heart of the character of Mike Ehrmantraut, methodically ruthless problem solver. This is his essence, joined to the grief he feels, due to his role in his son's death. 

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4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Him spotting the gas cap on the sales rack was an aha! moment straight out of "The Usual Suspects".

"Aha" or "Duh! Why didn't I think of that sooner!"  Easiest place to hide something small, and a quick change-out, as we saw when the guy came to replace it.  

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On the subject of Mike, it was clear to me he was trying to find a way to reverse track whomever put the track on his car.  I might not have gotten the mechanics of it but it was clear from the start Mike was trying to find a way to track the tracker.  LONG sequences of Mike fiddling with all those parts were unnecessary and unnecessarily long.

On the subject of Chuck, I'm not going to knock him for not allowing Jimmy to work at his law firm at first.  Just because Jimmy had earned his law degree doesn't mean he had earned a job at HHM.  Given Jimmy's past, I don't blame him either for being very wary of his intentions.  But instead of trying to help Jimmy as he became a lawyer and try to nurture his better qualities, Chuck became a passive-aggressive douchebag looking to sabotage Jimmy at every turn.  His behavior towards his brother, towards his partner and toward his underlings is repulsive.

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7 hours ago, Bannon said:

I just took it as Mike being uncertain as to whether he might be in a firefight in the near future, and wanting to have quick access to all weapons.

And possibly the fact he was shaken up. As careful as he had been watching Hector, someone else was even more sly watching him.

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It feels like this show hasn't been on for like 500 years! I'm rather torn on the episode. I can appreciate when shows slow down, especially from these creators who do it with so much style and intention, but after so long, I would have liked a teeny bit more story to get us ready for the upcoming season. Nothing seems to have changed much, and they are basically setting up similar themes and stories from last season. I'm still in though. It usually picks up as the season moves on, at least plot wise. I don't need action, I just hope that the story moves on a bit more in future episodes.

I feel like Chuck is a better guy on paper then Jimmy, but Jimmy is a better guy in practice. Jimmy is a liar and a crook and a manipulator, but I do think he means well, while Chuck plays by the letter of the law and has worked hard to be successful, but he's also a pretentious asshole who just wants to be The Winner, even if the contest is non existent. I think if Chuck had supported Jimmy and his ambitions more early on, he might have ended up on the up and up. But Chuck has basically decided he's a loser and a conman, and nothing will ever shake that.

I thought the Cinnabon Jimmy/Saul was really interesting, especially the little vignette with the teenaged shoplifter. I was surprised that she gave the guy away, and I think Jimmy was surprised too. Then his lawyer self took over and exploded.

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Lovved the Mall opening , Jimmy shown feeling half dead, his sad life his sad job his sad lunch, then being terrified of a Mall Cop. Done in Black and White for extra effect

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6 minutes ago, Nancypants said:

Lovved the Mall opening , Jimmy shown feeling half dead, his sad life his sad job his sad lunch, then being terrified of a Mall Cop. Done in Black and White for extra effect

As some residents have pointed out, that was not special effects. That's just what Nebraska looks like.

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3 minutes ago, SignGuy77 said:

As some residents have pointed out, that was not special effects. That's just what Nebraska looks like.

Now, now, I am familiar with the Albquerque mall where that scene was shot! Stop being mean to Nebraska! Leave it alone!

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On the minus side, I just spent way to much time watching Mike take a car apart. That's 5 min. Ill never get back.

The guy at the salvage yard talks like Tommy Chong

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I know we've only seen one episode involving Chuck's (ex-wife? deceased wife?) meeting Jimmy, but I highly suspect that there is far more to the story and that Jimmy played a role in her disappearance from Chuck's life. That would account for the degree of vitriol we see in him toward his brother now, in addition to the lifetime of having his hard work and stately qualities overshadowed by Jimmy's charisma.

Even their mother clearly loved Jimmy more, and that had to sting. But Chuck clearly adored his wife, and it would make sense that his hatred for Jimmy would know no bounds if he lost his wife due to something Jimmy said or did (or even if Chuck simply deemed Jimmy responsible, even if it was not entirely accurate or fair...we know that Chuck never takes responsibility for the damage he does himself, and only holds his own intentions in the highest esteem).

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1 minute ago, axlmadonna said:

Even their mother clearly loved Jimmy more, and that had to sting. But Chuck clearly adored his wife, and it would make sense that his hatred for Jimmy would know no bounds if he lost his wife due to something Jimmy said or did (or even if Chuck simply deemed Jimmy responsible, even if it was not entirely accurate or fair...we know that Chuck never takes responsibility for the damage he does himself, and only holds his own intentions in the highest esteem).

I know we are supposed to assume that the mother loved Jimmy more, but I really have not seen it.  The tiny mumble of Jimmy's name before she died really said nothing.  It would not be hard to believe that Jimmy was the mischievous charming baby brother who everyone adored and Chuck was the strait laced tedious one that no one really wanted to be around.  However, this is pure speculation on my part.

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1 minute ago, axlmadonna said:

I know we've only seen one episode involving Chuck's (ex-wife? deceased wife?) meeting Jimmy, but I highly suspect that there is far more to the story and that Jimmy played a role in her disappearance from Chuck's life. That would account for the degree of vitriol we see in him toward his brother now, in addition to the lifetime of having his hard work and stately qualities overshadowed by Jimmy's charisma.

Even their mother clearly loved Jimmy more, and that had to sting. But Chuck clearly adored his wife, and it would make sense that his hatred for Jimmy would know no bounds if he lost his wife due to something Jimmy said or did (or even if Chuck simply deemed Jimmy responsible, even if it was not entirely accurate or fair...we know that Chuck never takes responsibility for the damage he does himself, and only holds his own intentions in the highest esteem).

Oh, I really suspect that Jimmy is tied to the end of Chuck's marriage, even if Jimmy is unaware of it. If Chuck's wife ever expressed a sexual attraction to Jimmy, for instance, Chuck's inner rage would be like the sea of magma below Yellowstone National Park. 

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17 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I know we are supposed to assume that the mother loved Jimmy more, but I really have not seen it.  The tiny mumble of Jimmy's name before she died really said nothing.  It would not be hard to believe that Jimmy was the mischievous charming baby brother who everyone adored and Chuck was the strait laced tedious one that no one really wanted to be around.  However, this is pure speculation on my part.

I'm with you. It's possible that the mom and Jimmy clicked more. That happens in families. Some personalities bond better than others, but most (good) mothers love all of their kids the same. I think Chuck's perception is just that - HIS perception. I wonder if you asked Jimmy, would he feel that Mom loved CHUCK more, as he was the one who always did right and made the family proud? 

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6 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I wonder if you asked Jimmy, would he feel that Mom loved CHUCK more, as he was the one who always did right and made the family proud? 

That's a good point... it's all about perspective.

Edited by axlmadonna. Reason: Edited because I'm just now figuring out how the quote system works.
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3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I'm with you. It's possible that the mom and Jimmy clicked more. That happens in families. Some personalities bond better than others, but most (good) mothers love all of their kids the same. I think Chuck's perception is just that - HIS perception. I wonder if you asked Jimmy, would he feel that Mom loved CHUCK more, as he was the one who always did right and made the family proud? 

I would not be surprised if Jimmy thought of himself as the black sheep of the family and was told all his life "Why can't you get good grades and be successful in a well respected profession like Chuck".  As charming as Jimmy is, no one dreams of their child being a con artist.  On the other hand, Chuck probably saw how Jimmy was one of those guys who could light up a room as soon as he walked in the door.  If you are at a party with both brothers, it is not a stretch of who you would rather sit by.  Chuck probably always resented that the brother who is most likely to pick your pocket is the one who got the lion share of the charisma in the family.

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One thing I didn't find realistic was Howard and Chuck both agreeing the the tape would be useless in court.  I am not so sure about that.  NM is a single party consent state for recording conversations.  I also doubt Jimmy could call a bunch of experts to claim it wasn't his voice or the tape was edited.  HHM would have the funds to hire more and better experts, and they would be paying them to testify honestly, whereas Jimmy would be paying them to lie.

I think Jimmy's best defense would be that he was terribly worried about his dangerously mentally ill brother and said whatever he needed to say to calm him down and getting to stop covering his home in space blankets.  There would be many witnesses to testify how nuts Chuck was, including the ER doctor, the cops who tazered him after he stole the newspaper, employees who were forced to turn off the lights and hand over their cell phones, etc., etc.  There would also be witnesses to testify about how Jimmy went to such lengths to take care of Chuck through his "illness".   Plus, when Chuck says, "You do realize that you just confessed to a felony." Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right?"  That would fit in perfectly with his "concerned brother going along with whatever crazy Chuck said" story.  

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The Smothers Brothers, circa 1968, writing good television arcs for 50 years. Cuz "Mom always liked you best!" All siblings fall for this, even after they become parents and know it 's hard to do.

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10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Jimmy's best defense would be that he was terribly worried about his dangerously mentally ill brother and said whatever he needed to say to calm him down and getting to stop covering his home in space blankets.  There would be many witnesses to testify how nuts Chuck was, including the ER doctor, the cops who tazered him after he stole the newspaper, employees who were forced to turn off the lights and hand over their cell phones, etc., etc.  There would also be witnesses to testify about how Jimmy went to such lengths to take care of Chuck through his "illness".   Plus, when Chuck says, "You do realize that you just confessed to a felony." Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right?"  That would fit in perfectly with his "concerned brother going along with whatever crazy Chuck said" story.  

That's why there still may be some credence to the "Jimmy knew he was being recorded" theory. The way he chooses his words is very carefully. He doesn't really condemn himself terribly in the confession, rather spins most of it back on Chuck. Plus there's the whole thing of him calling Howard directly after leaving the house which we do not know about yet do we? Did he and Howard have some kind of plan against Chuck?

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12 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

One thing I didn't find realistic was Howard and Chuck both agreeing the the tape would be useless in court.  I am not so sure about that.  NM is a single party consent state for recording conversations.  I also doubt Jimmy could call a bunch of experts to claim it wasn't his voice or the tape was edited.  HHM would have the funds to hire more and better experts, and they would be paying them to testify honestly, whereas Jimmy would be paying them to lie.

I think Jimmy's best defense would be that he was terribly worried about his dangerously mentally ill brother and said whatever he needed to say to calm him down and getting to stop covering his home in space blankets.  There would be many witnesses to testify how nuts Chuck was, including the ER doctor, the cops who tazered him after he stole the newspaper, employees who were forced to turn off the lights and hand over their cell phones, etc., etc.  There would also be witnesses to testify about how Jimmy went to such lengths to take care of Chuck through his "illness".   Plus, when Chuck says, "You do realize that you just confessed to a felony." Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right?"  That would fit in perfectly with his "concerned brother going along with whatever crazy Chuck said" story.  

My first inclination was also that it wasn't nearly the clear cut confession that Chuck is suggesting it is, certainly not in a criminal case. It really must be a means to further trap Jimmy, and the question is whether Jimmy will fall for it.

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35 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Oh, I really suspect that Jimmy is tied to the end of Chuck's marriage, even if Jimmy is unaware of it. If Chuck's wife ever expressed a sexual attraction to Jimmy, for instance, Chuck's inner rage would be like the sea of magma below Yellowstone National Park. 

I feel like if that is the case, Jimmy is unaware of it.  The interactions we have seen so far between the brothers gives no indication of Jimmy's awareness of that having happened.  I tend to think she's dead, given Chuck still wears a wedding ring.  But I won't be surprised if something involving Jimmy fueled something that went sour in Chuck's marriage, or at least in Chuck's mind it did.  Speaking of Chuck's mind, Michael McKean is killing it, when he's on the ladder he somewhat fraternally reminisces about the nightlight, but when Jimmy brings up the neighbor girl, wow, the change in demeanor. 

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

One thing I didn't find realistic was Howard and Chuck both agreeing the the tape would be useless in court.  I am not so sure about that.  NM is a single party consent state for recording conversations.  I also doubt Jimmy could call a bunch of experts to claim it wasn't his voice or the tape was edited.  HHM would have the funds to hire more and better experts, and they would be paying them to testify honestly, whereas Jimmy would be paying them to lie.

I think Jimmy's best defense would be that he was terribly worried about his dangerously mentally ill brother and said whatever he needed to say to calm him down and getting to stop covering his home in space blankets.  There would be many witnesses to testify how nuts Chuck was, including the ER doctor, the cops who tazered him after he stole the newspaper, employees who were forced to turn off the lights and hand over their cell phones, etc., etc.  There would also be witnesses to testify about how Jimmy went to such lengths to take care of Chuck through his "illness".   Plus, when Chuck says, "You do realize that you just confessed to a felony." Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right?"  That would fit in perfectly with his "concerned brother going along with whatever crazy Chuck said" story.  

I think all of those reasons you laid out about courtroom scenarios are why HHM would never go that legal route.  To have all of that exposed about their former employee who worked for them for 10 years and was the brother of a partner would make them look worse than just the firm that bungled a filing because of a transpositional error.  They wouldn't want the dirty laundry out there. 

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41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

One thing I didn't find realistic was Howard and Chuck both agreeing the the tape would be useless in court.  I am not so sure about that.  NM is a single party consent state for recording conversations.  I also doubt Jimmy could call a bunch of experts to claim it wasn't his voice or the tape was edited.  HHM would have the funds to hire more and better experts, and they would be paying them to testify honestly, whereas Jimmy would be paying them to lie.

I think Jimmy's best defense would be that he was terribly worried about his dangerously mentally ill brother and said whatever he needed to say to calm him down and getting to stop covering his home in space blankets.  There would be many witnesses to testify how nuts Chuck was, including the ER doctor, the cops who tazered him after he stole the newspaper, employees who were forced to turn off the lights and hand over their cell phones, etc., etc.  There would also be witnesses to testify about how Jimmy went to such lengths to take care of Chuck through his "illness".   Plus, when Chuck says, "You do realize that you just confessed to a felony." Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right?"  That would fit in perfectly with his "concerned brother going along with whatever crazy Chuck said" story.  

I found it pretty telling that the seeming inadmissibility of the tape was what the conversation focused on and not that Jimmy had just had to assume temporary guardianship of Chuck not for the first time just what? a couple of days ago showtime and that that was likely to come up.  That would hit uncomfortably close to the larger issue of Chuck's competency if they tried to legally pursue it.  Chuck's seeming denial on the subject may be bigger than all of Egypt but Howard has to be aware of how it's going to reflect on HHM if they get embroiled in a case that would quickly come to center on a senior partner's mental stability and his handling of a former client's private files.  We know from what the recruiter of the competing law firm said to Kim last season that there's already talk of Chuck's mental issues at least within the local legal community, and that was before Chuck belligerently argued with a client about their own address in court.

It's sometimes hard to get a clear read on Howard, but this looked like a case where he was trying to shut the whole thing down before they could open themselves up to that.  Chuck, of course, has his own reasons.

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16 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I feel like if that is the case, Jimmy is unaware of it.  The interactions we have seen so far between the brothers gives no indication of Jimmy's awareness of that having happened.  I tend to think she's dead, given Chuck still wears a wedding ring.  But I won't be surprised if something involving Jimmy fueled something that went sour in Chuck's marriage, or at least in Chuck's mind it did.  Speaking of Chuck's mind, Michael McKean is killing it, when he's on the ladder he somewhat fraternally reminisces about the nightlight, but when Jimmy brings up the neighbor girl, wow, the change in demeanor. 

I think all of those reasons you laid out about courtroom scenarios are why HHM would never go that legal route.  To have all of that exposed about their former employee who worked for them for 10 years and was the brother of a partner would make them look worse than just the firm that bungled a filing because of a transpositional error.  They wouldn't want the dirty laundry out there. 

Yeah, Howard really does not want it known that they had critical legal work being done for years by a mentally ill partner living without electricity in his darkened home. The tape is useless to Howard.

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