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All Episodes Talk: "Boy, Was Spielberg Ever Wrong!"

Yes, a Farscape section! I missed the original run and only became obsessed with the show in the last year. Sucks that I missed out on so much, including the rewatches and re-rewatches. I'm ambivalent on the possibility of another movie, though. It would have a lot to live up to. I hope that this Farscape section is more busy than the one on TWoP has been. I have no one to talk to about this show.

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I caught the end of the live broadcast and kept up somewhat with what had happened before through TWOP. Checked back in when I started watching from the beginning on Prime, but all the topics were locked. Currently watching Season two and looking forward to new discussions here.

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Pretty much been my favorite show since it aired.  One of those "I notice something new on every rewatch" kind of shows so I'm always down to chat with new scapers. 

EDIT:  Something I thought might be cool here, if the mods don't mind it and if the traffic to the section increases enough to warrant it, are separate episode threads for newbies vs. veterans.  I was thinking of doing another rewatch soon and I know I have a hard time talking about earlier episodes without bringing up stuff that's foreshadowing to me, and spoilers to new Scapers.  I had the idea when we did that big re-watch on TWoP a few years back and seeing how they are doing separate episode threads in the Game of Thrones forums for book readers and non-book peeps, it seems like it might work. 

Just tossing it out there.  It's probably too early to tell if it would even be useful.

Edited by millahnna.
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Still my fave show period. I keep thinking I'll do another rewatch but life gets in my way. I still get fan girl goofy about this show.

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I'm currently doing a rewatch. I was worried the show wouldn't hold up, but it does! All the characters are still so strong and interesting. Chiana has just come onboard the ship

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Something I thought might be cool here, if the mods don't mind it and if the traffic to the section increases enough to warrant it, are separate episode threads for newbies vs. veterans.  I was thinking of doing another rewatch soon and I know I have a hard time talking about earlier episodes without bringing up stuff that's foreshadowing to me, and spoilers to new Scapers.  I had the idea when we did that big re-watch on TWoP a few years back and seeing how they are doing separate episode threads in the Game of Thrones forums for book readers and non-book peeps, it seems like it might work.

I don't think that would be a problem, there's a Firefly rewatch going on right now, the SG1 people are planning one as well and we just finished one for Veronica Mars, the way we handled spoilers those was similar to the way we handle them for shows like House of Cards, just spoiler tag anything that's something beyond the current episode. I don't think we'd be opposed to 2 topics per episode but also just spoiler tagging things seems to be working and keeps everyone in the same conversation.

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Farscape currently is on the Pivot network, can be seen nightly and either Monday or Tuesday nights they play 4 shows per night.

I heard a Farscape movie is being discussed, it will continue from the stories in the comics, which I haven't read and need to buy.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

I was also curiously unmoved by the John/Aeryn romance, as it progressed. I found it interesting to begin with, and a pair worth rooting for, but I slowly got bored of it, and by the time the two Crichtons turned up, I was pretty much over the whole thing and preferred to see John in scenes with Chiana, with that wonderfully twisted 'slightly sibling-y but we'd still love to fuck' vibe they had. Or his bromance scenes with D'Argo (a favourite: John asks D'Argo to be his best man and his response is, "...Uh... I'm with Chiana now, John."

As a result, Moya John was always the real, original John, in my eyes. Talyn John was the copy, and so I think I took his death very differently than most viewers did. I was just pleased that original John had been the one to survive. And I know they were both original John, but neither of them believed it. Just your typical Farscape weirdness.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

...preferred to see John in scenes with Chiana, with that wonderfully twisted 'slightly sibling-y but we'd still love to fuck' vibe they had. Or his bromance scenes with D'Argo (a favourite: John asks D'Argo to be his best man and his response is, "...Uh... I'm with Chiana now, John."

As a result, Moya John was always the real, original John, in my eyes.

For me it's not so much that I can't bring myself to put in the DVDs but I do rarely do entire series rewatches anymore.  I skip fairly large portions of early season one and then episodes here and there throughout the rest of the series, at large.  Truthfully, I just don't have the time.  I'd say I probably end up rewatching anywhere from 1/4 to 2/3 of the episodes, depending on my mood.  Sometimes I just do a Skiffy style themed marathon and only do, say, shipper episodes or a couple of the trilogies.  I find it kind of amusing to pick a theme and try to distill it to 10 episodes or less if I can.  So the ten most important Scorpy episodes... family episodes, freakiest aliens, etc. Hmmm... thread idea?

I'm a die hard John and Aeryn shipper (this is the show that turned me into any kind of shipper to begin with, really) but I love that stuff with Chiana and that's a good description of it.  Also, regarding the Dargo bromance... tell him who his daddy is. 

I've always thought of the two Johns as both being copies.  In my mind, I guess as a fanwank to the dialogue of the dude that made the copies (distinct and original or whatever it was), the original was destroyed to make the two copies.  Do we have a better thread for that (episode, season 3, John as a Character, not sure which would be best here)?  It's kind of an interesting logic train that lead me to that. 

Edited by millahnna.
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I know that techincally there has to be an original or "real" John but for me I never thought of it that way.  Generally I would.  In every single case on any tv show where there was a copy, there would always be the the "real" one and the "copy".  For some reason on this show I accepted both of them as the real Crichtons.  My brain fights with itself thinking that though. Even now as I'm trying to explain it part of me is like "NO!  There is a real one and there is a copy.  There can be only one!"  But the way I feel about it is that they were both Crichton.

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Perhaps I had trouble buying Talyn John as real because he was actually happy and had finally got what he wanted, with Aeryn. And that, sir, is  no John Crichton that I'm familiar with!

Moya John was just as messed up and frustrated and occasionally whiny as John always had been, and so felt far more familiar to me.

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Started a John thread for us to discuss the twinning thing in.  Fun!

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I didn't watch this show until fall of 2012 and like some of you have mentioned I felt so left out!! I actually joined TWOP wanting to discuss it only to find the topics all locked. Would have loved someone to discuss it while I was watching it the first time, it was a hell of a ride! I had seen season 1 years before and was kind of "YAWWWN" about it. But when Netflix added it to Instant streaming I finally decided to "slog" through it... but got addicted mid season 2.  By season 3 I was just watching one after another after another... WHEEEE!!!!

Really wish I had caught it when it first aired, but I was a freshman in college and while I remember seeing ads for it on Sci Fi, they always seemed kind of weird to me... it just looked crazy, the ads were usually loud with a lot of yelling in strange Aussie accents, I was just like WTF is this? I did see a couple of season 2 episodes and didn't dislike them, but out of context they weren't enough to draw me in. OH WELL! REALLY loved it when I was able to stream it on Netflix.

I've been trying to get some friends tow atch it too but season 1 is kind of a drag and so far nobody has really taken to it. But I was the same way.

I'm deifnitely a John/Aeryn shipper, that to me was the main draw of most of the series, well that and I love the humor most of the time. I started re-watching immediately after I finished but it was removed from Netflix for a time, and I was too lazy to put on the DVDs I had purchased due to that "emergency", so only picked it back up now. I'm in season 4 and find myself kind of losing interest in some of the episodes, I guess because I already know what's going to happen, but when I do give it my attention it's still great!! LOL. The whole John/Aeryn relationship just had me on a rollercoaster and I kept getting punched in the gut over it. It was very well done.. up until about season 4 when I think they sort of went the wrong way and missed some opportunities IMO.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

I was also curiously unmoved by the John/Aeryn romance, as it progressed. I found it interesting to begin with, and a pair worth rooting for, but I slowly got bored of it, and by the time the two Crichtons turned up, I was pretty much over the whole thing [..]

I'm in S3 of my rewatch, and I know what you mean! I enjoyed the romance in the previous seasons, but it's become too much. Though so far I think S3 is weaker overall. It seems like they ran out of ideas. I don't even remember Jool. Maybe I blocked it out, but her inclusion has changed the show's tone and quality. I can't stand all the bickering and childishness. Yes it was there before, but it's really been ramped up, and the characters seem more infantile. She doesn't have much of a role and isn't a well defined character.

I miss Zhaan :( Her loss really changed things imo, and I wasn't expecting that. The crew seems unbalanced.

Maybe it'll pick up but tbh, I can see why it was cancelled. Though like Firefly, it's an interesting world that could be resurrected with new characters.

Edited by greenbean.
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I used to *run* home for 5 pm to watch Farscape because the network didn't have a west coast feed back then. When the show was cancelled before its time, starting a trend on the network that they had no clue how to manage and produce shows; cf., every show ever after Farscape, I always thought that this could be a Star Trek-like franchise. Star Trek I didn't come out till long after the tv show ended, even though the fan base remained strong, and that was way way back then. I don't see why this couldn't happen here. The show universe is pretty rich and fully formed, with as many sentient beings out there, surely, as least as much as Star Trek. 

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I didn't watch this live and had the sort of weird experience of being a Stargate and a Farscape fan.  I still am and find a lot of value in both shows, they aren't the same, but I value them for different reasons.  

The thing with FarScape and why my rewatches are less frequent is that it benefits so much from total immersion.  Just being there with the story.  In the Uncharted Territories, shutting out all other forms of escapism and just hanging with these character, in that world.  It's an all-encompassing, completely engrossing thing.  

Unfortunately life doesn't often lend itself to "And for the next four weeks, I am going to watch FarScape! I'm going to dive down the wormhole.  I'm going to remember how I felt like someone had kicked me in the chops when Aeryn went striding past Moya John, even though I also really thought of Moya John as the "original recipe" ...I was a shipper, but it wasn't my sole reason for watching and then....ow, the story just clocked me right in the stomach. 

I think the stories I loved on that really "Yes, I have allowed this show emotional access to me that isn't entirely about me giving permission for it to have that access" are the hardest ones for me to rewatch, because I'll never be able to feel quite the same way again.  

Battlestar Galactica....sure it fell off a quality cliff, but I loved that show when it was good.  Loved it.  Bawled my freaking eyes out on occasion.  Can still tear up thinking of the most emotional moments.  I won't even go into them because I'll make myself cry if I start thinking about them too much.  Never completed a full rewatch of BSG since the finale.  

Breaking Bad.  Oh god, that show could be so funny and so incredibly painful.  Just stunningly painful.  But it was so, so good. 

FarScape is in that same league.  When I watched it that first time, my emotional well-being was on the line for these people, these characters.  Whenever I try to get back there, I have my shields up to an extent.  

But FarScape is one of the few shows that ever completely got them down in the first place and so it's precious to me.  

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FarScape is in that same league.  When I watched it that first time, my emotional well-being was on the line for these people, these characters.  Whenever I try to get back there, I have my shields up to an extent.

I hear you on that! I have been rewatching, but it's never the same as it was the first time. I wish I could forget it all and go back and watch it again.

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A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

Edited by stacey. Reason: Updating Topic Info
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Not sure where to put this but it looks like the PIVOT channel is airing the PK Wars tonight at 8/7 c. It's also airing the series finale an hour before. They've even got a countdown clock on screen for the movie like it's a huge deal. I love that network, I really do.

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Oh cool. A new Farscape board, well relatively that is. I've been obsessed with this show since I discovered it back in 1999. Eleven years of cancellation have not diluted my passion for it. What I find great about this show is that it's only now starting to catch on among the general public, with the much easier access to the episodes than existed 15 years ago. Fantastic.

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Farscape is all on Netflix, yeah. Well, it's definitely on British Netflix, so I assume it's on the US and Canadian sites too.

 

I'm not sure if the Peacekeeper Wars is on there, though. Like I've said before, I've seen most of the episodes so many times over the years that I have no urge to rewatch it at all, right now.

 

I remember watching the pilot episode and being... unimpressed. The puppets felt a bit too whimsical and there was a very rough-around-the-edges feel. I watched a few more episodes, here and there, but never really got into the show. Then I happened to catch Nerve, and everything clicked. Seeing Chiana for the first time (so damned sexy and borderline inappropriate), seeing Aeryn so vulnerable and the connection between her and John having grown so much, seeing Scorpius for the first time, after finding Crais a rather anaemic bad guy. Yes. The show worked, and I was hooked from that episode onwards.

 

All that's really a long-winded way of saying, 'if it doesn't grab you right away, stick it out until the back third of season 1, and I'm sure you'll be in for the long-haul'.

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I actually go all in until Chiana was introduced too. Prior to that, I thought it was interesting and different, but it didn't do much for me. 

 

iirc, if I remember in that episode, Rygel had his contest of wills with Durka too which I really liked. 

 

The show needs to find a new generation of fans if it's going to get to that Star Trek level, and I think it can. 

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Is it on any of the streaming sites?

I believe the at least the first season is also on Hulu.com

The very first episode that I saw was 1.06 "Thank God It's Friday...Again" as part of a 6 block of episodes that Sci-Fi Channel (yeah before they lame name chance)used to run with their new shows. It wasn't until I saw 1.08 "PK Tech Girl" that I got hooked on the show. It remains on my top ten episode list even 15 year later.

Edited by Philbert.
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Hello, everyone!  I started watching this show the past few weeks, and wanted to avoid accidentally spoiling myself, so I've I just started checking this thread out.  Decided to give it a go, since Netflix at all four seasons, and was thankfully able to grab The Peacekeeper Wars on Amazon (and, went ahead and got the show DVDs, as well.)

 

In short, I thought this show was awesome.  Very awesome.  Probably one of, if not my favorite sci-fi show of all time.  Usually, nothing can beat Star Trek for me, but this might have pulled if off (although Deep Space Nine might still hold strong.)  I just found almost every character on this show compelling, interesting, and fascinating to watch.  With a few exceptions, the stories usually went in directions I didn't expect, and I liked how the show could easily go from wacky and hilarious in one episode, to dead serious the next.  Each episode was a treat, because I never knew what to expect from the next episode.  But, yeah, this show is good.  So good, that I think it's influencing how I view other sci-fi shows I'm currently watching (I wonder if I would have been as harsh as I am on Falling Skies this season, if this wasn't always on my mind.)

 

For me, I actually was enjoying it enough early on, but I did think the things started picking up when Chiana came aboard, and then "Nerve" and the introduction of Scorpius, was what when I already decided that this show was going to be one of my favorites.  Not just because both of those characters brought new things to the table, but the rest of the characters started changing for the better, and sometimes going in different directions then expected.  But, my favorite was easily Aeryn Sun.  I loved her in her first scene, and she only got better and more interesting, as the show progressed.

 

The only complaint I kind of have was, after Chiana, I did think any future crew member never became as awesome as the original gang.  Only exception, and it might be unpopular, was Sikozu, who I actually liked because her self-serving attitude brought in some interesting scenes, and her attitude amused me (she reminded me of one of those people who is very book smart, but has horrible social skills, and it always rubbing people the wrong way.)  So, I liked her, although I was disappointed over what they did with her in The Peacekeeper Wars.  But I found Stark too over-the-top, Jool too obnoxious, and I really got tired of "Granny's" Schick. Nothing against any of the actors, and they all still had some good moments, but nothing could beat the Crichton/Aeryn/D'Argo/Zhaan/Chiana/Rygel team, for me.

 

Also, Scorpius was such a great antagonist, that it made his turn into an anti-hero a bit disappointing (plus, it felt like it tread similar ground with what they did with Crais), and neither Grayza or Emperor Staleek, could match him in the big baddie department.

 

But, those are just minor complaints.  I'm really glad I finally got to see it, and it more then lived up to my expectations.

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Scorpius shouldn't have been made a regular in S4. That's really the only flaw in the series. 

 

For standalone, Look at the Princess was pretty ambitious because they pulled a trilogy in the middle of the second season.

 

I did come around to the Emperor though when *idiot* Crighton told him that their little flower snacks grew in his grandmother's backyard on Earth. The calculating look the Emperor gave was like "checkmate motherfucker."

 

One thing I did like was that by the time We're So Screwed rolled around, everything was so ramped the fuck up; the Moya gang was literally the scourge of god by that point *and then they made nuclear weapon.* Waltzed into the heart of the Scarran Empire and told everyone to fuck off. The whole plan to incite the riot was just brilliant television with one of the best lines ever: They're trying to override our override of the override!

 

The monologue Claudia Black belts out in Prayer is one of the best tv monologues of all time. 

 

I've said it a bunch of times, this is the only show that I used to *run* home for. It was on at 5 pm on the west coast for the first 2 seasons. And I would not do anything on Friday night until I watched Farscape. 

Edited by ganesh.
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I really need to finish rewatching season 4 one of these days... lol

 

The first episode I recall seeing on Sci Fi was I think "Back and Back and Back to the future" and I just found that very weird. I also think I saw the one where D'Argo hallucinates his wife (if that's not the same one). I was in college at the time, around 2001. But I never really got to where I watched it regularly, why I dunno, maybe because I was home during the summer with no cable? I remember tuning in for the Princess trilogy because they advertised it a lot and it looked interesting, but again I did not continue watching... Soooo wish I had. I wound up never watching the whole series until 2012.

 

I agree it's definitely one of the best sci fi shows of all time. I probably would say Babylon 5 is better, albeit a very different tone, and B5 is less exciting to me now because I've seen it a couple of times and know the story pretty well, but I remember being just as excited about it in the 90s as I was when watching Farscape on Netflix, lol.

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The only complaint I kind of have was, after Chiana, I did think any future crew member never became as awesome as the original gang.  Only exception, and it might be unpopular, was Sikozu, who I actually liked because her self-serving attitude brought in some interesting scenes, and her attitude amused me (she reminded me of one of those people who is very book smart, but has horrible social skills, and it always rubbing people the wrong way.)  So, I liked her, although I was disappointed over what they did with her in The Peacekeeper Wars.  But I found Stark too over-the-top, Jool too obnoxious, and I really got tired of "Granny's" Schick. Nothing against any of the actors, and they all still had some good moments, but nothing could beat the Crichton/Aeryn/D'Argo/Zhaan/Chiana/Rygel team, for me.

 

I agree that they struggled to introduce new characters after Chiana who really seemed to fit and make the show better. I thought Stark's craziness was a bit too grating, and his relationship with Zhaan was just... yuck. Jool was annoying, but she was supposed to be, and I did find her helplessness quite sympathetic and endearing at times. Noranti? The less said the better.

 

As for Sikozu? I adored her. I've said before that my feelings about 'ships on the show ran a little counter to most peoples', but I'd have loved to see John and Sikozu hook up for a while. She was damned sexy, and so smart, and it seemed like they did hint at something between them for a couple of episodes, before dropping it. I really did not like the path Sikozu took after that, though. Her being a secret insurgent against the Scarrans felt far too convenient, and her thing with Scorpius was too icky, even for this show. Then she betrayed Scorpius too... and possibly the Scarrans again. Everything got a bit too jumbled. 

 

Your point about her being book smart but people dumb sums her up perfectly, I think. But she did just pop, from her first appearance. I can even picture the scene now, when she and John were in the module, and he does a little 'floating away' gesture with his hand, which she follows with such intent eyes and little head bobs, just trying to figure him out. I recall someone making the comparison once that, if Chiana was all catlike grace and slinkiness, then Sikozu was pure bird.

 

Also, Scorpius was such a great antagonist, that it made his turn into an anti-hero a bit disappointing (plus, it felt like it tread similar ground with what they did with Crais), and neither Grayza or Emperor Staleek, could match him in the big baddie department.

 

 

This too. Crais worked as an anti-hero because his motives in hating John were ultimately sympathetic. He lost his brother. I think there was always the chance of redemption, if he came to understand it was an accident. Scorpius never had any motivations except seeking more power. He became more sympathetic through Harvey, in my view. The humanised version of him in John's mind. And I think that's as close as he ever should have come to being a good guy. He was a strong enough villain that Grayza was never needed.

 

One thing I did like was that by the time We're So Screwed rolled around, everything was so ramped the fuck up; the Moya gang was literally the scourge of god by that point *and then they made nuclear weapon.* Waltzed into the heart of the Scarran Empire and told everyone to fuck off. The whole plan to incite the riot was just brilliant television with one of the best lines ever: They're trying to override our override of the override!

 

 

I loved the way their reputation just kept growing and growing, and the idea of them as these legendary outlaws formed, for the most part from them goofing things up and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The main gang all worked really well together, and any pairing of characters would serve an episode so well. Whether it was D'Argo and John, D'argo and Aeryn, John and Rygel, Zhaan and Aeryn. And then Chiana too, who worked really well with all of them. But I always enjoyed it the most when the aliens were all running to keep up with the way John's mind worked.

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I think there was always the chance of redemption, if he came to understand it was an accident.

 

Crais pretty much said that flat out to Crighton before he died. 

 

Almost nothing beats, "You and your white death pod!"

 

I loved the way their reputation just kept growing and growing, and the idea of them as these legendary outlaws formed, for the most part from them goofing things up and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

A lot of it did result from Scorpius chasing them all over the place, so they kept getting cornered. The thing with We're So Screwed is that the Scarrans et al., whomever abducted Aeryn in the first place, *grossly* underestimated the literal rain of death that the crew was going to bring down. They *nuked* the seat of the Scarran Empire. Actually bombing them back into the stone age. 

 

 

Let's just take Aeryn and trade for the wormhole knowledge. 

Uh, they blew up a moon once. You know that right? That maniac jumped on the table with a nuclear weapon strapped to his chest.

Edited by ganesh.
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Almost nothing beats, "You and your white death pod!"

 

 

I loved that. Like, Crais had to try so hard to blame John for the death. Because there's John, in his piddly little module, with the most confused, dopey look on his face that you've ever seen (that the Peacekeepers even zoom in on), and someone flies right into him. And Crais somehow twists it into that. Brilliant.

 

Lani Tupu really was so good in the role, and I think he does often get overlooked when we fans talk about the series. Seeing him become more and more unhinged through the first season, as his pursuit of John takes him further and further outside his authority, until Scorpius shows himself to be a much more potent, scary villain, and removes Crais as a threat effortlessly.

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They did a good job fleshing out Crais' background too, so you could appreciate he had actual intelligence and rose through the ranks on merit. Plus, his idea to birth the gunship was basically brilliant and tragic at the same time, since it ended up with his own people casting him out and his eventual death. 

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I think the most damning thing that detracted from Scorpius truly redeeming himself was Talyn!Harvey trying to kill John before John could get rid of him. He was pure evil for that, and I was so shocked (and betrayed! And hurt! This show) when Aeryn later let him aboard Moya, since she knew just how dangerous he could be. Even if diluted by John's psyche.

 

Talyn!Harvey's behavior also made it impossible for me to completely enjoy Moya!John and Moya!Harvey's adventures afterward because I was still mad about Talyn!John dying. Even with Scorpius' "noble" ambitions of peace between the races, somewhere in there was a petty little asshole who couldn't be trusted to do right by others and Talyn!Harvey proved it, imo. But Scorpius made a great villain all the same.

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I think the most damning thing that detracted from Scorpius truly redeeming himself was Talyn!Harvey trying to kill John before John could get rid of him. He was pure evil for that, and I was so shocked (and betrayed! And hurt! This show) when Aeryn later let him aboard Moya, since she knew just how dangerous he could be. Even if diluted by John's psyche.

 

Talyn!Harvey's behavior also made it impossible for me to completely enjoy Moya!John and Moya!Harvey's adventures afterward because I was still mad about Talyn!John dying. Even with Scorpius' "noble" ambitions of peace between the races, somewhere in there was a petty little asshole who couldn't be trusted to do right by others and Talyn!Harvey proved it, imo. But Scorpius made a great villain all the same.

Should I be worried that this entire post made perfect sense?

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So I just randomly caught an episode today, and it happened to be Kansas. God, what an odd, wonderful episode. Aeryn dressed in tie-dye spandex, the gang camped out in a derelict house, and having to ambush a police officer who won't believe D'Argo is just wearing a mask, passing Rygel off as a stuffed toy.

 

Oh, and Chiana taking young John's virginity in a pretty unsettling retcon/callback to Karen Shaw. I'll say this, Farscape was a show that was never afraid to push the boat out into weird waters. The timeline stuff is completely screwy, seeing Aeryn and Rygel watch Sesame Street is marvellous ("This girl is slow!"), giving the finger as a greeting is a daft running joke. Oh god, Rygel hopped up on sugar and carving a pumpkin into a "scary" face.

 

As a Sikozu fan though, I really liked the final scene, where she's unabashedly intrigued by meeting the humans, and wanting to see what John's reaction to them being on Moya is. She was such a cool, interesting character to be added, at such a late stage. I wish she'd become a real part of the crew.

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So I just randomly caught an episode today, and it happened to be Kansas. God, what an odd, wonderful episode.

I'm a sucker for those type of "fish out of water" stories, so, yeah, Kansas and the episode following it (Terra Firma, I think?), were hilarious to me.  I just loved seeing the crew dealing with being on Earth.  Kansas was the best though, since it was also back in time and watching Crichton deal with the messed up time-line.  But, my favorite was probably Aeryn discovering TV and Sesame Street.  Although, I certainly didn't mind it when the they were put in the mansion by the government in the second episode, and Sikozu and Chiana used some of that time to sunbath by the pool.

 

Speaking of those episodes, it reminds me that, while he was only in about ten episodes or so, I really liked the casting of Kent McCord as Jack.  He was one of those guys I've seen in various roles on TV, and he just gives off the perfect vibe as Jack.  You could see why he was someone that Crichton always felt like he was under his shadow and wanted to impress him, but still got the sense, that underneath his touch exterior, Jack really did care about his family.  I thought his and Crichton's farewell scenes (both in Terra Firma and Bad Timing), were very touching.

 

Now, to change things a bit: I'm currently watching the DVD commentaries now, and I just finished the Jeremiah Crichton one.  I remember reading from the AVClub review that it is considered by many to be one of the worst Farscape episodes, and I certainly won't disagree.  But, if for nothing else, I do appreciate it for having one of the most awesome commentary tracks of all time.  I just loved how all the commentators (Rockne S. O'Bannon, David Kemper, Ben Browder, and Claudia Black) are totally honest about that episode, and acknowledge that it was a failure.  Besides the hilarious slams (my favorite was Rockne basically saying that this is what happens when the reason for the episode's existence is Ben wanting to have a beard), it was actually insightful about what they were going for, and why it just didn't work, IMO.  I do think there were some good ideas (Rygel getting some back-story, Crichton's frustrations with the Moya crew), but the execution just didn't work.  I think Claudia said it best, that it was just too earnest.  Of all the episodes, it was one of the ones I could see them easily transporting the Star Trek: Next Generation crew in it, and the outcome still being the same.  Which, I love my Trek, but it just didn't work for Farscape.  Still, it was a rare misstep, and it did seem like they learned from it going forward.

Edited by thuganomics85.
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Aeryn dressed in tie-dye spandex, the gang camped out in a derelict house, and having to ambush a police officer who won't believe D'Argo is just wearing a mask, passing Rygel off as a stuffed toy.

 

But the best part of the episode was Aeyrn speaking "english", "hello. how..are.....you." The cadence of CB was just off enough that you got she was actually speaking english versus english through translator microbes. Farscape always gets the nod because they actually thought out the language issue right from the start. Yeah, it's a cheat, but the at least addressed it pretty much immediately. 

 

Speaking of those episodes, it reminds me that, while he was only in about ten episodes or so, I really liked the casting of Kent McCord as Jack.  He was one of those guys I've seen in various roles on TV, and he just gives off the perfect vibe as Jack.

 

"But each man gets a chance to be his own kind of hero". That's flat out one of the best lines ever and was delivered not only with honesty but sincerity, by just the right person. 

 

Now, to change things a bit: I'm currently watching the DVD commentaries now, and I just finished the Jeremiah Crichton one.  I remember reading from the AVClub review that it is considered by many to be one of the worst Farscape episodes, and I certainly won't disagree.

 

I do disagree. I listened to the commentary too. It's not *that* bad and, fundamentally, it's a world building episode, in terms of the Farscape world. It was the first season. The end was actually ok, Rygel said, "I'm not your god." That's important. It also involved for one of the first times, Aeryn working with the others, and solving a technical problem. Figuring out that the planet canceled out communication and sending down the beacon. Which showed that she could be something more. It's clunky more than it's bad.

 

The worst episode, by definition, is the reverse starburst episode because it is a reset button. That's the only time the show did that. That's bad. 

 

And honestly, the first season of TNG wasn't that great. Farscape's first season was exceptional even if you think this episode was bad. 

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Fair points.  I did like the stuff with Aeryn and Zhaan, and there were still moments I did enjoy.  I'll agree that "bad" probably is a bit harsh.  But, I understood the criticisms.  I think my main issue was that I though all the actors playing the natives weren't very good.  Granted, guest actors can always be a bit of a hit or miss, but I remember thinking almost all of the non-Moya characters were bland at best, and stiff at worst.  What was strange was I actually knew the actress who played the chief's daughter, Natalie Mendoza, from past work (Beastmaster and was Juno in The Descent), but I thought she was kind of bad here.  One of the few times I thought an actress somehow didn't have chemistry with Ben Browder.

 

But, yeah, there are much worse first season episodes out there.  TNG truly did have some stinkers (oh, Justice a.k.a. Enterprise visits a planet full of hot people, and Wesley gets himself arrested for destroying sacred plants.)  Jeremiah Crichton never touched that.

 

I'm drawling a blank: what was the episode where they "reverse starburst?"  I do remember that scene, but I'm trying to remember what else was going on in that episode.

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I'm a sucker for those type of "fish out of water" stories, so, yeah, Kansas and the episode following it (Terra Firma, I think?), were hilarious to me.  I just loved seeing the crew dealing with being on Earth.  Kansas was the best though, since it was also back in time and watching Crichton deal with the messed up time-line.  But, my favorite was probably Aeryn discovering TV and Sesame Street.  Although, I certainly didn't mind it when the they were put in the mansion by the government in the second episode, and Sikozu and Chiana used some of that time to sunbath by the pool.

 

 

Absolutely. I watched Terra Firma this morning (and realised I must have seen the start of it after Kansas yesterday, because that's where the scene with Sikozu is that I mentioned) There are so many great little moments as well, with the crew trying to get their heads around all the Earth stuff. Noranti eating flowers, and telling the others they're good, Sikozu trying an apple and spitting it out in disgust, Rygel eating anything. And yes, Chiana and Sikozu in bikinis certainly wasn't an unwelcome sight. Aeryn's first Christmas and the tiny throwaway moment of Aeryn seeing the photo of Mr. Jingles and wondering "what the hell is that?.... Does he talk?"

 

I am reminded, with this episode, that I really hated Aeryn's hair in season 4. I presume it was a wig, because it looked awful. Flat and plastic and just... not good. It actually makes her stand out badly when she's in scenes with John's sister or his Earth girlfriend. Why they chose to give her that hair, I'll never know. I think they changed Chiana's wig for season 4 as well, and that didn't work either.

 

But the best part of the episode was Aeyrn speaking "english", "hello. how..are.....you." The cadence of CB was just off enough that you got she was actually speaking english versus english through translator microbes. Farscape always gets the nod because they actually thought out the language issue right from the start. Yeah, it's a cheat, but the at least addressed it pretty much immediately.

 

 

And despite me not being crazy about John/Aeryn, I always liked Aeryn a lot, so it was really endearing to see her making such an effort to connect with John by learning English. She couldn't really connect with him, due to the stuff he was snorting, but she was trying so hard to just latch onto things that made her feel closer to him. It was always touching to see big bad Aeryn Sun being so vulnerable and even naive. Claudia Black really sold the idea that her character was 'other' with that cadence, I agree.

 

And on the language front, I always appreciated how they dealt with it. Showing D'Argo communicating with the old general who was injected with translator microbes in this episode, making a point of Sikozu need to learn languages through hearing them, and so she can speak English when the humans get in contact. And when we did hear snippets of alien language, they sounded truly alien. More like Xhosa than Klingon.

 

Fair points.  I did like the stuff with Aeryn and Zhaan, and there were still moments I did enjoy.  I'll agree that "bad" probably is a bit harsh.

 

 

See, I don't think it's harsh, and I tend to agree with the peanut gallery on the commentary. Because Farscape did occasionally have stinkers, and I think Jeremiah Crichton definitely was one. I agree with Claudia that it was played too earnestly, and I definitely think that the noble savages were too Star Trek to really feel at home on Farscape. Same goes for the plot, revolving around artificially suppressed technology. It feels like something Wesley Crusher or Harry Kim would solve, while getting a crush on the gorgeous native girl.  I also thought John was painted too nobly, in his exile, which just made the episode even drier and duller. Why not have him getting involved with said gorgeous native girl, to give the character a little depth? Why not have him doing more than peacefully fishing on the beach for months?

 

I can't really agree that it's a world building episode either, because we never revisited that world, or anything remotely similar to it. There was a bit of information about the Hynerian Empire, but that was about it. I don't know if it's the worst episode, because that one where D'Argo has sex with the old Luxan shaman to reinvigorate her was really lame (most D'Argo episodes were pretty bad, I find).

 

I do think this episode would have been better if it had focused not on John, but on the others trying to find him for three months. I think that would have sold the growing family bonds much more effectively. Then, the Jeremiah Johnson stuff could have been the gag, after they're worrying about what's happened to him, only to find him chilling out, eating giant lobsters, with beautiful girls hanging off him.

 

"But each man gets a chance to be his own kind of hero". That's flat out one of the best lines ever and was delivered not only with honesty but sincerity, by just the right person.

 

 

Lines like that, and Kent McCord's performances when he was on the show, in turn really helped sell moments like John's voice-over monologue in the season 1 finale. That whole sequence gives me goosebumps whenever I watch it, and Ben Browder's performance just exudes warmth, decency, resolve, and belief in himself. And you know all that comes from his dad. He's so clearly his father's son.

Edited by Danny Franks.
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I am reminded, with this episode, that I really hated Aeryn's hair in season 4. I presume it was a wig, because it looked awful.

 

CB said it was a three quarter wig. She actually wanted to cut her hair for S4 with a really punked out look to reflect on her time in between seasons as a bad ass assassin. But the network said no because what's her face had short hair and they didn't want the audience to be confused. *eyeroll*

 

She also came up with the Sebacean language. 

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She also came up with the Sebacean language.

Really? That's fascinating. I always thought it had a very interesting sound to it.

I loved Kansas & Terra Firma as well. It was fun to see the interaction & reaction to earth. Honestly though I'm pretty easy when it comes to this show. Even the episodes that aren't as great I still care about despite the cheese or junk. Jeremiah Crichton definitely wasn't great but it was still Farscape so I tolerate it with fondness.

I just recently finished a rewatch but didn't watch Peacekeeper Wars because I didn't want it to end & because D'Argo...

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She also came up with the Sebacean language.

 

Really? That's fascinating. I always thought it had a very interesting sound to it.

 

 

Yeah, in the commentary track for A Human Reaction, Claudia Black said something about believing early on that the Sebaceans and Humans/Earthlings were probably related somehow, so she came up with the idea that the Sebaecean language is actually English spoken backwards.  Pretty neat idea.

 

 

I just recently finished a rewatch but didn't watch Peacekeeper Wars because I didn't want it to end & because D'Argo...

Ah, yes.  I managed to remain unspoiled when I got around to watching it, but I just had a sense that someone was probably going to die.  I kind of figured John and Aeryn were safe bets, but as soon as Chiana said she wanted to go with D'Argo to the farm, I knew one of them wasn't going to make it out.  At least he did have company, since they also killed off Jool and Sikozu.  

 

Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

Edited by thuganomics85.
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Claudia Black said something about believing early on that the Sebaceans and Humans/Earthlings were probably related somehow, so she came up with the idea that the Sebaecean language is actually English spoken backwards.  Pretty neat idea.

 

Which proved useful since the reveal in PK wars explained why she could get pregnant by John. 

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Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

I feel bad because I didn't even remember that Jool died when I read this. And I agree with everything you said about Sikozu and how her story ended. I remember reading/hearing/watching somewhere that the segment of Unrealized Reality where she was a psychotic assassin spy was supposed to be some kind of hint/foreshadowing. But that seems wasteful to me, because those AUs were supposed to be a departure from the norm. Sikozu getting put down like a rabid dog was a disservice to the character imo.

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CB said it was a three quarter wig. She actually wanted to cut her hair for S4 with a really punked out look to reflect on her time in between seasons as a bad ass assassin. But the network said no because what's her face had short hair and they didn't want the audience to be confused. *eyeroll*

Is this the same network that OK'd Sikozu's drastic change in appearance between the series and Peacekeeper Wars? So the audience might not recognize Aeryn if her hair was a bit shorter, but Sikozu suddenly being replaced by Peter Pan was no problem at all...

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I'm only going on memory. I assume the drastic change for PK Wars didn't matter because the movie was funded by a private entity. So they had no input to that end.

Edited by ganesh.
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I was not pleased at all with Sikozu's transformation in Peacekeeper Wars. As I've said (several times, I think), I really liked the character, and was not a fan of her turning into Scorpius's kinky servant, who just kept betraying everyone. 

 

I do think that Aeryn's wig actually contributed to me being less invested than ever in John/Aeryn in season 4. She just didn't look that good, and I think Claudia Black was a bit too skinny by that time as well. She just looked a little bit unhealthy, which may have been intentional, but it didn't work for me.

 

Of course, I'm still miffed over the Sikozu ending.  I really wish they didn't make her into a traitor.  If they wanted to kill her, that's fine, but I wasn't a fan of her final scene basically being her begging and getting her ass kicked by Scorpius.  It came off less about her, and more about Scorpius being a "badass."  To be fair, I guess Jool's death wasn't really about her, but it at least served a purpose, by effecting the Moya crew, and showing how bad things were getting.

 

 

Sikozu didn't die in Peacekeeper Wars. I don't recall the exact details, but she survives whatever Scorpius does to her. She does apparently get killed off in the Farscape comic books, in a noble sacrifice to save some Leviathans (this was after she learned that super badass cool guy Scorpius had engineered the annihilation of the Kalish). But I don't really think that makes up for how they mishandled her character after the first few episodes of season 4. I thought she worked really well with the rest of the crew, and her superior attitude and intellect managed to mesh better than Jool's did a season earlier. Plus, Raelee Hill had a fantastic line in exasperated, 'are you really this dumb?' facial expressions. Her scenes with John, Chiana and Rygel, in particular, were always really fun.

 

Making her a bioloid in the first place was an awful decision, because they'd just shown how bioloids were not real people, by having John casually kill the Aeryn one. Then she turns out to be designed as a Scarran killer, then she turns out to be spying for the Scarrans, then she.... Yeah. I don't think even the writers ever quite figured out what she was supposed to be, and that's a shame.

 

Ah, yes.  I managed to remain unspoiled when I got around to watching it, but I just had a sense that someone was probably going to die.  I kind of figured John and Aeryn were safe bets, but as soon as Chiana said she wanted to go with D'Argo to the farm, I knew one of them wasn't going to make it out.  At least he did have company, since they also killed off Jool and Sikozu.

 

 

Yet they kept the dreadful Jothee alive. But at least they changed actor and prosthetics, to make him a little less annoying. I never liked that character at all, and the Jothee/Chiana subplot was too gross even for this show.

 

I don't think of this series as one that kills off characters, really. But when I look back, they certainly weren't shy about it. Gilina, Crais, Talyn, Zhaan, John (kind of), Jool, D'Argo, Jack the Ancient, D.K. and his wife. Hmm.

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You know what though? Those deaths *hit*. You figured one of the Johns had to die, but it was fucking BOOM. (Plus, I loved the prior scene when Aeryn leaped out of the buggy and John smacked her on the ass.)

 

Who wasn't sad over Talyn? It was only a set! I think the only one really that was a cheat was D'Argo, but to be fair between all the Katratzi annihilation and the PK Wars, the face that no one died would have been a stretch. I compare it to Wash dying in the Firefly movie. Not totally necessary, but, yeah, kind of because then when your main characters cross into invincibility, you lose something. 

 

Even though you knew Aeryn probably wasn't going to die on Katratzi, there was that little bit in the back of my mind...they *might* do it. But the only problem would be that the response would be John ripping the known universe to shreds and that would have been hard to develop as a story.

 

Game of Thrones is great, and I totally buy all the death that is present in that world, and it's earned. Revenge? Sure. You're stupid? You die. And there's a lot of stupid people. But it's at a point where I'm rolling my eyes. The Red Wedding was like "whoa!" But cartoonish at the same time. (Fun fact, I ripped off a lecture on the red wedding and risk management off the top of my head the next day. Students loved it.)

 

Farscape always kept coming at you from different ways and you just weren't quite sure. That's unique in a tv show.

 

And unique is always valuable. 

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You know what though? Those deaths *hit*. You figured one of the Johns had to die, but it was fucking BOOM. (Plus, I loved the prior scene when Aeryn leaped out of the buggy and John smacked her on the ass.)

 

Who wasn't sad over Talyn? It was only a set! I think the only one really that was a cheat was D'Argo, but to be fair between all the Katratzi annihilation and the PK Wars, the face that no one died would have been a stretch. I compare it to Wash dying in the Firefly movie. Not totally necessary, but, yeah, kind of because then when your main characters cross into invincibility, you lose something. 

 

Even though you knew Aeryn probably wasn't going to die on Katratzi, there was that little bit in the back of my mind...they *might* do it. But the only problem would be that the response would be John ripping the known universe to shreds and that would have been hard to develop as a story.

 

Game of Thrones is great, and I totally buy all the death that is present in that world, and it's earned. Revenge? Sure. You're stupid? You die. And there's a lot of stupid people. But it's at a point where I'm rolling my eyes. The Red Wedding was like "whoa!" But cartoonish at the same time. (Fun fact, I ripped off a lecture on the red wedding and risk management off the top of my head the next day. Students loved it.)

 

Farscape always kept coming at you from different ways and you just weren't quite sure. That's unique in a tv show.

 

And unique is always valuable. 

 

This is what I'm getting at, I think. Yes, there were several character deaths on the show, but I never dwelled on them because they were what had to happen, in that moment, in those circumstances. They weren't put in there to shock the audience, they weren't to cause a stir, it just felt like organic storytelling in a world where people die.

 

So I miss the characters, but when I think of Zhaan, I don't think of her death (in fact, I had actually forgotten the exact circumstances of her death until I looked it up just now). When I think of Crais and Talyn, I don't think of how they sacrificed themselves. I think of stuff they did when they were alive. Because they were always about much more than how they died.

 

Game of Thrones uses 'anyone can die!' as a gimmick now, just as GRRM did with the books, and I find it a little tiresome. It is over-the-top, it is cartoonish, because they feel like they have to go a bit further, every time. And most of the time, the deaths actually derail the narrative, in favour of reinforcing the brutality of the world. So that's fine, if that's what you want to see, but narrative strands being cut off like that just make me feel like I've wasted my time.

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