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S01.E07: Double Helix 2017.04.02

When a pregnant woman is found murdered and her baby cut out of her, the State's Attorney's Investigators race to find the baby and the killer. The case is complicated when it's revealed that the killer's DNA matches that of her father: a convicted serial killer already in prison. Both killers then attempt to use the DNA evidence as their ticket to freedom.

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Interesting to me how SVU just had a (horrible) episode recently on whether rapists are genetically "born this way", and now we had CJ tackling something similar—only for murderers. Overall I thought this was a decent, tense episode with some good twists and turns... But then I audibly groaned and almost turned it off when the killer turned out to be "tragically" infertile and out to steal a baby. Ugh!!! Sorry but that is such a hated cliche and stereotype for me, I really wish they hadn't gone down that route. Just once, can't we get an infertile woman on tv who comes to term with it and is okay, instead of trying to perform home c-sections?

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Young Stone picked up calling  the witness the sarcastic "sir" from daddy 

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Yeah I noticed the "sir" delivered with contempt from Peter Stone just like his dad did on L&O, I wonder if that was intentional. 

Interesting episode overall, not great but not bad either.

Back to back cases where a criminal from Stone's past comes back, that was weak writing.The episodes would've been better separated out a few weeks. 

I didn't like the stereotypical woman who couldn't have a baby become a fruitcake because she couldn't have a kid, that was extremely cliched. 

I did like that we got more courtroom scenes in this episode, I had complained previously about the courtroom stuff starting too late but tonight it started at the halfway point. 

I liked the ending twist of the plea bargain being invalidated because he supposedly didn't tell the truth about murdering the one victim, good legal trick. 

One thing that I would've liked to see was a follow up scene with psych expert guy from Med, we saw him interview the killer but we never got a follow up scene where he gave his take on her to the prosecutors, which was odd I thought, I would've liked to have known what his opinion was about her mental state, we always got follow up scenes on the original L&O when Skoda or Olivet examined someone. I thought that was weird writing, one of those writing kinks that seems to plague every episode at a couple of points. 

They have totally given up realism regarding the SA investigators, and that is hurting the show. Dick Wolf seem to have started throwing realism out the window with his Chicago shows. They would not be investigating cases from the start, it's totally absurd. They should've either made them homicide detectives or start with them investigating when there is already an arrest. 

Valdez was hardly in this one, which I didn't mind at all, but I don't give a fuck about Nagel's soap opera custody battle storyline, keep the personal stuff to a minimum.

Once again a total waste of Mark Jefferies who appeared in like 2 scenes, he seems like an interesting character but they are giving him squat. 

What was with the viewer discretion advised disclaimer 2 weeks in a row? This is a show about violent crimes, of course it's mature, no need for the disclaimer, although that dead baby was a horrifying sight. 

Edited by Xeliou66.
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I liked this one overall. I too could have done without the stereotyped cliche of the infertile woman ripping a fetus out of a mother's womb though. Aside from that I thought the episode was good. I liked the way they handled the genes issue and thought it was done so much better than the recent SVU episode.

I loved Stone's response when the suspect's father suggested that he became a lawyer because his father was one, "I made that choice." Stone cornering and shutting down the killer/father there was really good. And boy, Stone can give a good stare down. He has one intense glare!

I like having the input from the M.E. and from the shrink, and I agree with Xeliou66. They should have brought Dr. Charles back to give some testimony. I'm not a huge follower of the other Chicago shows, but I do think it's a nice touch to have the cast of the other shows appear from time to time as long as they don't overdo it.

I really, really like Nagel, so I hope they don't go giving her character needless angst. It's fine that she has some personal struggles of course, but I'm really hoping she handles this custody issue with maturity and we don't see her spiraling downhill. Please show! Pretty please, don't ruin a potentially great character with something stupid. Also, show, more Mark Jeffries! 

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If a victim is murdered in Illinois, then dumped in Indiana, does Indiana have jurisdiction to prosecute for murder? If that's true, then Stone & some DA from Indiana must have negotiated the original plea deal. If not, can Stone just magically transfer jurisdiction? Seems like grounds for appeal.

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2 hours ago, paigow said:

If a victim is murdered in Illinois, then dumped in Indiana, does Indiana have jurisdiction to prosecute for murder? If that's true, then Stone & some DA from Indiana must have negotiated the original plea deal. If not, can Stone just magically transfer jurisdiction? Seems like grounds for appeal.

I thought Stone said 4 of the murders took place in Indiana.  I could be wrong.  I assume that the murder he was caught and tried for took place in Illinois so that's why Stone had dibs. 

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I think the "former plea bargain was contingent on the defendant's honesty" scene was my favourite part of the episode: definitely a carved-granite stare from Junior. Don't try to outmaneuver Peter Stone, sir. He will crush you like a bug.

The infertile-woman-as-crazypants-murderess was a hoary cliché, but the scene of the character "comforting" the grey baby was startling. 

Edited by Sandman.
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Yeah the guy killed some women in Indiana as well. 

I hope they don't derail Nagel either, I'm liking Dawson and Nagel more and more despite the unrealistic nature of what they have them doing, and while I don't mind learning more about the characters personal lives through dialogue, the final scene of Nagel's custody petition was overkill, it had nothing to do with the case and is a pure soap opera storyline. 

I hope they give Jefferies some more as well, he is interesting but he gets nothing. I can't stand Valdez and didn't mind that she had nothing, she is an awful actor and brings the show down IMO. 

Edited by Xeliou66.
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4 hours ago, Impish Dragon said:

I thought Stone said 4 of the murders took place in Indiana.  I could be wrong.  I assume that the murder he was caught and tried for took place in Illinois so that's why Stone had dibs. 

Then Stone would not have authority to provide immunity from lawful Indiana prosecution in the original document.....

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22 minutes ago, paigow said:

Then Stone would not have authority to provide immunity from lawful Indiana prosecution in the original document.....

Would Stone be required by law to hand over the evidence to Indiana?  Not that I think tv is accurate  anything, but if he isn't, then the immunity could come from him not giving Indiana the info.   Or Stone could have discovered the murders were conducted in Indiana after the fact, meaning he assumed the crimes he was giving immunity for were all in Illinois. 

And I have no idea why I'm thinking so hard on this.  :)

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Original Law & Order had several episodes where pending extradition to another state gave Stone  / McCoy leverage or weakened the current case. 

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I thought this episode was okay but do wish they had made it know that it's okay if you can't have a kid or decide not to have one.

I felt bad for the ex-boyfriend who I hope dumped his current gf because she seemed to be a bitch. I wished they had told them that she was dead, I bet the bitch would have said good for her. 

Who was the father of the baby? 

I hope they don't overdo the Nagel child drama but somehow I think they will. 

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The father was the Ex Boyfriend.

while I agree that it is fine not to have a kid if you don't want one. Some people really want their own child and saying it's fine to not have one can ruin a friendship, speaking from personal experience. 

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The actress playing valdez although pretty is an awful actress. She has no affect in her expressions. On the other hand, William Forsythe as the serial killer turned in a stellar performance. Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes. 

Edited by Lillybee.
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1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

Apparently Dawson and Nagel are hurting the show. Whatever. 

They are no worse than young Stone acting like the detective squad Lieutenant. But since they are not Chicago PD their status is a big drawback towards the relative  realism from the Law And Order universe and plays more like the fake CSI and NCIS franchises.

Another Trial By Jury similarity like Brisco's partner before he passed away Nagle is supposed to be a wounded in action ex cop who went to lighter duty with the States Attorney. Only to have her tackling suspects in the first two episodes 

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7 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

The father was the Ex Boyfriend.

while I agree that it is fine not to have a kid if you don't want one. Some people really want their own child and saying it's fine to not have one can ruin a friendship, speaking from personal experience. 

It's just tedious and a hurtful cliche to almost always see infertile women portrayed as broken and never able to get over the grief of it. And in shows like this one, portrayed as driven crazy by that grief and to murderous/illegal acts to steal another woman's baby. (Sort of like the "evil bisexual" is a hoary and overdone cliche as well.) As an infertile woman who then chose to work towards being happily childfree instead of pursuing treatment or adoption, I know how that choice can affect and sometimes ruin relationships, of course. But that isn't really the issue here, as I see it.

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L&O has always prided itself on realism and this show just isn't realistic. Dawson and Nagel get hate because what they are doing puts the show in CSI territory, and just isn't realistic. They should've either made them Homicide detectives, or had them start investigating once there was already an arrest/indictment/suspect. I like the Dawson and Nagel characters, just the unrealistic nature of what they are doing bugs me and lots of other viewers. It's also weird how Stone gets involved quickly and orders them around. 

I want to like this show but the writing and the awful Valdez character make it hard. 

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you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

Edited by Elliebab.
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1 hour ago, Elliebab said:

you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

I suppose that they are cops from the PD show. If they came to the Law And Order world as States Attorneys Investigators doing the exact same job as homicide detectives in the rest of the extended franchise they would get the same objections 

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14 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

The father was the Ex Boyfriend.

while I agree that it is fine not to have a kid if you don't want one. Some people really want their own child and saying it's fine to not have one can ruin a friendship, speaking from personal experience. 

Okay, thanks. I thought it was suggested but not definite. 

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16 hours ago, Lillybee said:

Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes

I don't recall it being explicitly addressed so I went under the assumption that she actually had a plan to cozy up to expectant moms in order to steal a baby. 

I liked this episode due to the number of courtroom scenes, which I've always loved in L&O. The episode moved at a fast pace and I was a bit tense at times (which is a good thing!) Really likes how Stone was able to resolve any issues he may have had by giving the serial killer immunity. 

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13 hours ago, sockii said:

It's just tedious and a hurtful cliche to almost always see infertile women portrayed as broken and never able to get over the grief of it. And in shows like this one, portrayed as driven crazy by that grief and to murderous/illegal acts to steal another woman's baby. (Sort of like the "evil bisexual" is a hoary and overdone cliche as well.) As an infertile woman who then chose to work towards being happily childfree instead of pursuing treatment or adoption, I know how that choice can affect and sometimes ruin relationships, of course. But that isn't really the issue here, as I see it.

L&O Mothership has explored different angles on adoption /  "need" to be a parent... The surrogate mother that must have watched "The Producers" - she promised the same baby to 2 different families so she could collect double expenses while carrying the baby...The fertility clinic Doctor that secretly subbed his own sperm...Pretty sure there was one involving a same-sex couple adoption but can't remember if murder was involved.... 

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1 hour ago, paigow said:

The fertility clinic Doctor that secretly subbed his own sperm

Funny, this same exact plot line also was done on L&O: CI, too. (With even, I think, almost the same title? "Seeds" on CI; "Seed" on the Mothership.) I guess the franchise loved to recycle. As for the same sex couple and adoption, I do recall a Mothership episode where the bio parents of a baby kidnapped said baby after one half of the adoptive gay couple was murdered, but I can't recall the name of the episode. IIRC, the bio-dad was a bigot and hated the idea of his kid being adopted by the couple.

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Yeah that episode about the gay couple adopting the baby was called Phobia and it was from L&O season 11. Great episode, and I especially liked the part where the other adoptive parent/gay guy testified after the defense attorney was trying to portray gay people as unfit parents. 

It was weird how they did an almost exactly similar storyline on L&O and CI about the fertility doctor using his own sperm, both episodes had Logan as lead detective as well. They started out differently though, the CI episode started out with a classic murder while the L&O one started out with a woman getting shot after shooting at her ex. 

I can't remember if L&O ever had any crazy women who went insane cause they couldn't get pregnant, but it is a stereotype that is tiresome

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16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I can't remember if L&O ever had any crazy women who went insane cause they couldn't get pregnant, but it is a stereotype that is tiresome

Wasn't there an episode about frozen embryos getting stolen / custody battle? I think the original sperm & egg donors got divorced. Somebody killed the ex-husband. His new wife implanted one of the embryos and the ex-wife wanted her charged with kidnapping / theft. Leading to debate about "what is a person" "ownership of human material" etc...   

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Just watched this episode on demand. I guess we know where Stone stands on the death penalty.

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first (who apparently wasn't a star pitcher, so must have spent some seasons coming up through the minors), so three years of law school (that's the Northwestern full time curriculum) on top of that.... 

Nagle's back story, missing a mandated drug test I think--why??? And her kid's father with full custody never has unexpected events that keep him from picking up the kid? This kind of personal crap involving the viewers and trying to tug at our heartstrings killed SVU for me. Quit it, Show. I had to rewatch five episodes of Justified to love Joelle again. 

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21 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first...

There will probably be a golf invitation from the Governor, but Stone has to turn it down because his rotator cuff and elbow were destroyed after his rookie season....

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4 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Just watched this episode on demand. I guess we know where Stone stands on the death penalty.

Picky, I know, but I was also curious that he prosecuted the serial killer eight years ago. He doesn't seem old enough to have been assigned such a big case back then considering he was a major league baseball player first (who apparently wasn't a star pitcher, so must have spent some seasons coming up through the minors), so three years of law school (that's the Northwestern full time curriculum) on top of that.... 

Nagle's back story, missing a mandated drug test I think--why??? And her kid's father with full custody never has unexpected events that keep him from picking up the kid? This kind of personal crap involving the viewers and trying to tug at our heartstrings killed SVU for me. Quit it, Show. I had to rewatch five episodes of Justified to love Joelle again. 

Shot in the line of duty but misused prescription pain killers in recovery. Or her ex husband lied to gain sole custody of the kids.

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3 hours ago, paigow said:

There will probably be a golf invitation from the Governor, but Stone has to turn it down because his rotator cuff and elbow were destroyed after his rookie season....

Merely his cover story because his Navy Reserve SEAL Team 66 got an emergency deployment orders 

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11 minutes ago, Raja said:

Merely his cover story because his Navy Reserve SEAL Team 66 got an emergency deployment orders 

To save an orphanage while carrying the only vaccine against both ebola and AIDS in a tiny vial clenched between his manly teeth as he dodged bullets running across an open plain 

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This one was my favorite episode so far. They seemed to have toned down the (self)-righteous speachifying from Stone. He seemed more human and admirable in this outing than his previous scenes, where he seemed to constantly feel morally superior to everyone else. He and William Forsythe were excellent in their scenes together! I absolutely reveled in the epic smackdown that Stone was able to deliver right at the end. That was an awesome scene, and nobody does an evil smirk like Forsythe, I'm glad Stone was able to wipe if off his smug face. 

I liked that Nagel had a situation going on outside of work because she has just been kind of boring so far. However, I assume that the addiction will be revealed to be more substantial than she let on to the CPS lady. Otherwise, she was wildly unprepared for some very routine questions. And she should have had back-up childcare arranged in any case. I assume that special investigators can be called out to a case at all hours, like any other cop. Antonio has a pile of minor kids and an absent Ex, and he seems to manage just fine. 

It is a petty concern, but I couldn't figure out why Valdez was answering her cell in her bosses office while they were dealing with the grieving father. Stone was clearly irritated by it. Except for poor plotting, why wouldn't she just excuse herself and go out to the hall? The door was right there and he clearly didn't need her to conduct the interview

Overall it seems like the show is starting to find it's stride. 

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All I got from this, really, is how Phillip Winchester borrowed TV dad Michael Moriarty's "Sir" as a form of contempt that the elder EADA Stone used to love to do on Original Recipe L&O. Nice little Easter Egg there.

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On April 4, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Elliebab said:

you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

I love Antonio!!

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On 4/4/2017 at 1:30 AM, Lillybee said:

Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes.

That kind of bugged me.

What bugged me more was that there seemed to be no real debate on if the not guilty because of insanity was reasonable. It seemed to be the most interesting thing about the case. And the fact that she was taking care of an obviously dead baby makes for a compelling argument. Plus if you get found not guilty, it is not like you actually get away with murder, since I imagine that mental hospitals for murders probably aren't very pleasant (especially since you stay would basically be indefinite). I just wish they had someone on Stone side bring up that a deal might have been the best way to go.

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