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S01.E13: Dragon Plays with Fire 2017.03.17

I just finished the series yesterday and while i enjoyed it, I found Danny to be perpetually annoying.  He constantly would dive head first into deadly situations without any thought process, let alone a plan.  He started to remind me of Carrie Mathison of Homeland. She has a penchant for taking the bait on possible traps and this season that trait has gotten worse. 

Like others I figured that Davos burns to be the Iron Fist.  He clearly believes that he was cheated out of the honor and removing Danny would allow him to petition the monks to make him the Fist.

Edited by cali1981.
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I didn't find the scene with Joy and Davos all that odd.  I just assume Joy has PTSD or something.  Remember, in a relatively short amount of time she's

*learned the father she watched die is actually alive only to lose him again

*found out her brother has been lying to her

*lost the company and life she worked hard for

*learned about and had to deal with the Hand

*ended up nearly dying herself

All of which happened after her long thought dead childhood friend Danny, reappears in her life.  I can see her thinking being if he had never showed up...

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Just finished the series, I actually liked better than the other Marvel series (except Daredevil).  It did have some problems though.  All the swerves kind of felt like swerves for swerves sake.  So many people we thought were on Danny's side turn out not to be, and vice versa.  

Danny was kind of all over the place with what he wants to do.  And for someone who is supposedly so zen, with perfect control over his mind and body, the dude sure was led around by his emotions a lot.

Hopefully for the Defenders, he'll get some sort of costume.  If we're going to get super teams, I don't want to see them all running around in street clothes.

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Unmitigated dreck.  A monumental fail.

I've had complaints about each of these Defenders series, although this one takes the cake.   The idea of all four of these messes teaming up for one mega-mess does not fill me with anticipation.

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I finally finished my series and regret investing time in it.  You know you're going to get a crappy season finale when the biggest threat the (super)hero has to face is a businessman with a gun.

The writing was bad, the FX for Kun Lun sucked and the acting wasn't much better.  Danny is written as little more than an "I know you are but what am I" child.  I like Finn but his acting isn't strong enough to pull off the crap he was given for his character.  Although at least he is capable of more than one facial expression unlike Mike Colter, who you literally can't tell the difference as to whether he is happy, angry, confused, etc.  I can buy Davos going off the rails the way he did but Joy wanting to join him makes no sense whatsoever.

Ward's redemption turn was a welcome surprise for this episode and it's always good to see Hogarth (and Madame Gao for that matter) but that's about it.

If Marvel Netflix thinks that the dreck that they put together for Iron Fist is good, we are in serious trouble when it comes to The Defenders.  I think Marvel Netflix let their early success go to their heads and to use a South Park expression, began to fall in love with the smell of their own farts.  They've foolishly and arrogantly clung to the 13-episode a season format when they only have enough story for about 8-10 episodes.  This is due to their own inflated sense of self-worth.

Edited by benteen.
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This was my worst Marvel Netflix show but it was not due to Jones' martial arts or acting. His acting was mediocre but few people, even in my favorite Marvel Netflix series, blew me over with their acting. My problem was in the writing. I do believe that Danny was written as naive. I get it. My problem is that he was written as if he could never learn after being bitten. Also, 90% of the cast was written as naive. 

Also, is Davos a native of K'un Lun? I mean he called Danny an outsider--which we know he is. But are the people in K'un Lun British? (I know. I know. No need to answer.) This is not in relation to the whole Iron Fist being white controversy. This is just something I am truly wondering.

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7 minutes ago, benteen said:

I finally finished my series and regret investing time in it.  You know you're going to get a crappy season finale when the biggest threat the (super)hero has to face is a businessman with a gun.

The writing was bad, the FX for Kun Lun sucked and the acting wasn't much better.  Danny is written as little more than an "I know you are but what am I" child.  I like Finn but his acting isn't strong enough to pull off the crap he was given for his character.  Although at least he is capable of more than one facial expression unlike Mike Colter, who you literally can't tell the difference as to whether he is happy, angry, confused, etc.  I can buy Davos going off the rails the way he did but Joy wanting to join him makes no sense whatsoever.

Ward's redemption turn was a welcome surprise for this episode and it's always good to see Hogarth (and Madame Gao for that matter) but that's about it.

If Marvel Netflix thinks that the dreck that they put together for Iron Fist is good, we are in serious trouble when it comes to The Defenders.  I think Marvel Netflix let their early success go to their heads and to use a South Park expression, began to fall in love with the smell of their own farts.  They've foolishly and arrogantly clung to the 13-episode a season format when they only have enough story for about 8-10 episodes.  This is due to their own inflated sense of self-worth.

And that ending, the big reveal .. Kun Lun is gone!

My reaction: So what?

The Kun Lun folk seem like a bunch of raging assholes, beating little kids with sticks, molding them to grow into guys who abandon their commitments and can't control their tempers (Danny) or nurse petty jealousies and scheme to kill longtime friends (Davos).   Kun Lun sounds like hell, what with donkey burgers, bad clothes and cut off from the world by the Polar Vortex.   The show gave us no reason to care about Kun Lun in the first place, and certainly no cause to be concerned that it was threatened -- and wasn't that supposed to be the whole freaking point of the Iron Fist?   By the same token, the fact that Danny abandoned his guard's post hardly seemed worth a second thought.   All we ever saw of Kun Lun was a dingy cell-like room in Danny's flagellation flashbacks.   The writers tried to compensate in the last few lines where Danny explains to Colleen that just beyond the mountain misery is a land of warmth and greenery, etc -- but they never SHOWED it.   No Shangrila, no nothing.   Just a hardass monk physically abusing a boy.   That mountain pass wasn't very forbidding either.   It looked like a walking trail adjoining an Aspen resort.   Colleen's day-in-the-mountains outfit complete with sunglasses told us everything we need to know about how hard it is for mortals to reach Kun Lun.

In the end, Madame Gao was my favorite character.   And this will probably be unpopular (and I can't believe I'm saying it because I love Rosario Dawson) but way too much Claire in this series.

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On 20/03/2017 at 0:36 PM, xqueenfrostine said:

That wasn't a bad finale as far as MarvelNetflix series go, but they ruined for me what was a fairly good episode when they paired Joy up with Davos.  

See, I interpreted that scene differently. Davos met with Joy and was obviously in league with Gao. But I thought that Joy's reaction could easily be interpreted as her stringing Davos along to find out his plan. I find it hard to believe she blames Danny for what happened since everything - her father's faked death, the drug dealing, the Hand - was already there. She was just ignorant of it. So I can easily see her pretending to be in league with Davos to protect Danny. 

I have to say I kind of liked what they were trying to do with the characterisation. But the execution... ergh. It was sophomoric and in places almost a soap opera. Ward's arc and the actor was awesome. No idea what they were trying to do with Joy, other than prop Ward's arc. I'm afraid I saw zero chemistry between Colleen and Danny. ZERO. 

Overall, good for two days of mindlessness but didn't add anything. 

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On 4/11/2017 at 9:55 AM, AudienceofOne said:

See, I interpreted that scene differently. Davos met with Joy and was obviously in league with Gao. But I thought that Joy's reaction could easily be interpreted as her stringing Davos along to find out his plan. I find it hard to believe she blames Danny for what happened since everything - her father's faked death, the drug dealing, the Hand - was already there. She was just ignorant of it. So I can easily see her pretending to be in league with Davos to protect Danny. 

That interpretation doesn't make sense to me, because Davos would have no reason to try to include Joy in his scheming if he didn't have very good reasons to believe that Joy would be sympathetic to his cause.  If he didn't, he'd be opening himself up to the very thing you're suggesting (Joy stringing him along, or even just alerting Danny that Davos is actively plotting revenge against him), and I don't think Davos is that dumb.  And hell, even if he is, Gao (assuming they're indeed working together, as you theorize) is definitely not that dumb.  

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I just felt that Joy was noncommittal in that scene. And since we didn't see a previous scene between them, we only have this to go on. I still think the writers could play it either way. 

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On 4/3/2017 at 6:23 PM, Impish Dragon said:

I didn't find the scene with Joy and Davos all that odd.  I just assume Joy has PTSD or something.  Remember, in a relatively short amount of time she's

*learned the father she watched die is actually alive only to lose him again

*found out her brother has been lying to her

*lost the company and life she worked hard for

*learned about and had to deal with the Hand

*ended up nearly dying herself

All of which happened after her long thought dead childhood friend Danny, reappears in her life.  I can see her thinking being if he had never showed up...

Plus she isn't just some nice person stuck in a bad situation trying to do good. Even at the beginning she was a hardass businesswoman. Don't forget the scene where she made the deal to buy the dock, by saying she would help the owner's kid get an organ transplant, but only if he sold. That is totally Harold Meechum's daughter. So yea i can totally see rage +PTSD +her personality +Davos' words could make her consider killing Danny.

Overall I liked this episode. It was a hell of a lot more exciting than the last few, and that floor punch was cool. If they had this level of action for the whole season it would have worked much better.

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I'd like to think Joy will be manipulated/controlled into a situation against Danny, with Davos, although Joy has shown she can be devious. Especially since most of the series, and even earlier in the ep, she's defending him.

Jeri and Gao made the episode.

Two Marvel shows with my favorite characters having the name Ward (first and last...). Glad he's redeemed and hope he stays reformed.

Line of the night. Jeri's, "I always enjoy a good cremation."

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On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Eneya said:

s it just me, or does anyone else's head hurt from trying to figure this thing out?

Not just you.  That was a hot mess of an ending.  I am thrilled Ward and Colleen are alive, but there was no sense to the fights.  Colleen and her stunt double are always impressive.  Her "oh shit, guns" was perfect.  But nobody bothered to disarm Harold.  Even Danny's floor exploding BOOM didn't disarm Harold.  

I hate Claire too.  

I think Joy was just gathering info.  She is smart that way.  Sure I will let this wild eyed British man spin me a tale.  

Thank goodness Ward has a head made of rock.  I thought he was a goner.  I love him.  He isn't quite handsome and his voice is a tad whiney but he is genuinely hilarious. And he loves his sister in an appropriate way.

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

and that floor punch was coo

But what did the floor punch accomplish?  Harold go away to the roof with his gun.  I guess Ward was able to grab the iPad?  

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On Saturday, April 08, 2017 at 2:12 AM, millennium said:

The idea of all four of these messes teaming up for one mega-mess does not fill me with anticipation.

Oh but it will be a glorious mess.  I cannot wait to see Jessica manhandling her way through these guys.  She is the Hulk Smash of this group.  And if they get Elecktra, Hellcat, Colleen, and Jessica in a lineup I will be thrilled.  Karen Page and Joy can dither away on the sidelines.  Ward and Froggy can be passive aggressive at each other.  

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On 24/04/2017 at 1:02 AM, jeansheridan said:

But what did the floor punch accomplish?  Harold go away to the roof with his gun.  I guess Ward was able to grab the iPad?  

At least it looked cool, and i have to say things that looked cool, is something this show was lacking. 

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I rather liked Colleen's generally effective arm twisting move.  When they let her be vicious,  she delivered.  The actress sold it for me.  Davos was convincing too.  And the Drunken Master.  I hope he shows up again.  Against Dare Devil.  Or more hilariously, Jessica.  Jessica's zero technique delights me.

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Just finished the series last night, and on the whole, I liked it.  It's hard for me to compare this one against the other Marvel series and rank them, because I think each one is so different.  Each has its good points and bad points.  With Daredevil, I find the lead actor to be awful.  He's wooden and boring.  I loathe sanctimonious Foggy and his awful haircut.  But I love Elektra and Karen Page.  Jessica Jones was slow as molasses for the first half, but then finally picked up towards the end.  I found her to be a bit tiresome but I loved Trish Walker and really hope she becomes Hellcat ASAP.  Luke Cage is probably the show I found the most even throughout, it was consistently great and Alfre Woodard is to me gave the best performance out of anyone on all four of these shows.

As for Iron Fist, I was indifferent to Danny.  I didn't hate Finn Jones or his performance or the character, he was just there.  I did think that Danny's generally cheerful do-gooder personality was a refreshing contrast to the angsty portrayals of the other lead Marvel Netflix characters (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Punisher).  I did enjoy the character of Colleen Wing.  I found the journey of Joy and Ward Meachum to be intriguing, and am most impressed that I hated Ward with a passion in the early episodes but then grew to understand and sympathise with him.  Madame Gao was amazing and I hope we see lots more of her in the future.

I do feel that this show created three villains that I truly loved to hate... Bakuto, Harold and Davos.  I'm sure Bakuto is alive, somebody has to be the villain in a supposed season 2, and I would enjoy watching him get kicked down again.  I really hope that Harold is dead dead.  I know no one ever really dies dies in comic book world but I don't need to see him (and his stupid floppy hair) again.

I don't get the animosity from Davos towards Danny.  This was a man who considered Danny his brother.  They were best friends.  But he always knew that Danny was an outsider from the outside world and I truly don't understand why he didn't understand why his friend wanted to go back to where he came from and seek the truth about his past.  A true friend would have supported him.  As for "the Iron Fist must guard the pass".  Really?  Why can't they just have more people guard the pass?  Why can't they just make another Iron Fist?  I grew to truly dislike Davos and his constant whining about how "we have to go back".  I don't like that they are setting Joy up to be a villain in season 2, but it would make sense.

I don't really understand what happened at the end.  Danny tried to go to K'un Lun, the path was closed, and there were dead Hand soldiers at where the entrance was.  What does this mean?  The Hand tried to get into K'un Lun but failed?  Or they succeeded?  If they had succeeded wouldn't there be dead K'un Lun warriors there too?  I interpreted this to mean that K'un Lun defeated the Hand and took any K'un Lun casualties/injured back with them to K'un Lun before the path closed.

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On 3/19/2017 at 9:42 PM, calliope1975 said:

The Davos and Joy thing seemed to come out of nowhere. I'm guessing Davos found K'un-Lun gone and is pissed he's stuck in NY. Have a bagel, my guy. It's not so bad there. I don't know why Joy would want Danny dead.

This.  So much.  In the last episode thread I said the only character who was actually "good" (besides Danny & Claire & Colleen on a good day) was Joy but if she is now chatting with disgruntled monks about offing Danny then she comes off that short list.  That's a bit bleak.

Oh well.  On to the The Defenders!  I can't wait to hear the snark from Jessica Jones when Danny's naiveté comes shining through.

Edited by WatchrTina.
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On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:35 PM, WatchrTina said:

On to the The Defenders!  I can't wait to hear the snark from Jessica Jones when Danny's naiveté comes shining through.

The trailer is FULL of snark.  Jessica does not tolerate heroics much.  

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10 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

The trailer is FULL of snark.  Jessica does not tolerate heroics much.  

Trailer?!?  *runs to youtube*

...

...

...

Ohhhh that was glorious.  I need to watch this about a dozen times.

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I know!  It is almost as if the writers made Iron Fist dorky on purpose for the comedy.  And if they were playing this long game, then cool, maybe?  Finn isn't my favorite but he was one of the few actors able to bring comedy into GOT based on just performance.  

And he did allow them to give him weird surfer/boy band hair on Iron Fist.  He looks so much better with the hoodie on.  Imagine his hair cropped.  So much better.  He has to know he looks a bit dorky, right?  

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1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

It is almost as if the writers made Iron Fist dorky on purpose for the comedy.

I thought the same thing!  I giggled through every scene with one of the others reacting to him, even though in his own show it got old really quick.  He's such a child and I love it, ha!

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Danny's personality fits so very much better with two surly characters and one observant (even though he's blind) smart ass than he does all on his own. 

And as for this series and the whole collection of these shows, I still love Claire.  

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I just finished watching this for the first time, I've seen the others and The Defenders.  I really liked it, and don't get a lot of the negativity toward it.  Ward and Joy are the most interesting part of the show for me, and Ward is my favorite character.  Just a lot going on there.  I thought the finale was fine.  Of course they can't resolve everything since it's just the first season and this was just a warm-up for Defenders and future Iron Fist seasons where he battles The Hand.  I agree that Danny himself is the least interesting character on the show.  Of course, you can say the same thing about Batman.  The villains are always more interesting than Batman.  But they could have written Danny Rand better.  When a guy returns to America after spending fifteen formative years in a Himalayan monastery, I expect him to be a lot more like Cain from Kung Fu than a hipster doofus from Venice Beach.  I would expect some culture shock as he tries to adapt to western society again.  But he wasn't *that* bad (though there were moments where he was borderline whining) and it helps a lot that unlike the other three Netflix heroes, he has a legitimate sidekick in Colleen who fills a lot of gaps and helps carry the load.  I liked the story of Harold and what happened to Danny's parents, and he also made for pretty slimy villain.  Although his end game of returning to public life and taking control of Rand Inc. again while setting up Danny really didn't make a lot of sense.  He couldn't really believe that whole plan wouldn't blow up in his face, but I guess he was blinded by arrogance.  Madame Gao is easily the creepiest and most drippingly evil villain across all these shows.  Anyway, I enjoyed this show enough to look forward to next season.  I hope they focus a lot on Danny's failure to protect his home as the Iron Fist and the consequences.

Edited by Dobian.
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Finally finished it. The Meachum family drama ended up being the best part. The Danny/Colleen stuff was boring and cringey until the end.

Had to laugh as dumb as fuck Danny nearly getting shot by Harold at the end only for mere non super hero Ward to have to step in and finish him off.

Idiot.

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