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S01.E06: Immortal Emerges from Cave 2017.03.17

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Danny receives an invitation like no other.  Colleen and Claire face a difficult choice.  A worried Joy confronts her brother.

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Am I supposed to know who this Madame woman is ? Her magic seems far more useful than Danny's magic punching. 

Even Luke Cage's powers trumps Danny's sometimes steel breaking. 

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9 minutes ago, wayne67 said:

Am I supposed to know who this Madame woman is ? Her magic seems far more useful than Danny's magic punching. 

She was in the first season of Daredevil, doing basically the same thing she's doing here.

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2 minutes ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

She was in the first season of Daredevil, doing basically the same thing she's doing here.

Obviously it's been too long since I've watched the first season of Daredevil. Then again I think I stopped watching that show after episode 10. Might be time for me to try for a rewatch. 

Didn't take too long for the Chemist to be retaken. I guess the synthetic heroin is going to make a reappearance later in the season. 

This episode made me feel sorry for Ward, he's just a mess. He couldn't last a day without the drugs. He must have been using them for a while.

Also how many times has Danny been dosed now by women he let get too close to him? Twice? 

Is that Monk telepathically talking to Danny or is he a hallucination ? 

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I'm gonna guess it's some kind of ancient monk magic.

Man, Danny has that whole "basically raised by some harsh teacher who just wants to use him as a weapon against the Hand" thing in common with Matt. Can't wait to see them compare notes on that aspect of their childhood.

Danny and Matt can also compare notes on how they both got thrown across a room by Madame Gao.

The part where Danny fought the spider woman was super cheesy, though. She got all up in his personal space, she could have stabbed him in the back of the head and it'd be game over. Instead she jabbed him with poison needles that he got over by the time he had to fight the karaoke guy. Laaaame. This is supposed to be one of the Hand's best fighters?

Of course Madame Gao didn't play fair. Danny's the only one who didn't see that coming.

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Cool fight. I see Madame Gao doesn't play fair. It defeats the purpose of accepting challenges against the Hand, though. I'm curious about her magic, I'm not sure Danny would be able to fight that. Which makes me think now that the Defenders should have a member with psychic powers.

Poor Ward, he's a mess. But he's addicted to what, exactly? If it's codeine, I don't know why he was taking it; I thought he had headaches or anxiety and doctors don't give you codeine for that, as far as I know. Is it the heroine? I'm sorry for him, I liked his wtf faces every time Danny did stuff against the company's best interests. 

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8 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Obviously it's been too long since I've watched the first season of Daredevil. Then again I think I stopped watching that show after episode 10. Might be time for me to try for a rewatch. 

As @The Crazed Spruce mentions, a lot of what Madame Gao is doing now was first established in Daredevil S1 (this is from memory and I guess spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched DD S1 yet):

Spoiler

 

  • She was a part of the diverse group that Wilson Fisk was using to break down Hell's Kitchen.  She could speak English fluently, but chose to have Wesley (man, I miss that guy) translate for her.  Fisk definitely seemed to respect and fear her above the other members of their coalition.
  • IIRC, she was not openly connected to The Hand; Nobu was.  I wonder if, since his sort-of demise, she has taken over his part of the operation as well.  I think he controlled the docks (hence the delivery of the Black Sky).
  • Madame Gao's role in the operation was the production and distribution of the heroin (marked with the dragon symbol even back then).  She had her blind(ed) devotees cooking it up in warehouses and then acting as couriers escorted by the Russian taxi operation.  
  •  I'm fairly certain that she was behind (or at least instrumental in) the poisoning of Fisk's girlfriend, Vanessa, when she became a distraction for him.

 

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I wasn't sure if the guys in the early scene had been murdered or had killed themselves to avoid hearing the bad karaoke. I was disappointed when Danny fought him and he didn't pull THAT weapon out of his arsenal! So Claire's picked up "Sweet Christmas!"?

8 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Also how many times has Danny been dosed now by women he let get too close to him? Twice?

I'll give him a pass on Joy, because she is/was practically a trusted family member. But, yeah, the virgin-raised-by-monks thing can only be used so far. Too bad they didn't make him gay, and confuse everything! (Though I'm unsure as to how GLAAD would react to a gay "Fist", so maybe best they left things as they are in the source material.)

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Well, the quality is headed in the right direction at least. This had the best fight scenes and is the best episode so far.

I really don't mind Danny looking kinda feeble next to Madame Gao. Danny's only 25 and Madame Gao is....somewhat older than that.

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Madame Gao's :O face when she saw Danny's qi fist was great. Also did Danny use his qi to expell the needles from his body? That's awesome.

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I don't understand the corporate world. Wouldn't Danny's 51% give him the perk of not being voted out of the company, and wouldn't he be the deciding vote on who does?

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3 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I don't understand the corporate world. Wouldn't Danny's 51% give him the perk of not being voted out of the company, and wouldn't he be the deciding vote on who does?

Yeah I totally don't understand that. 

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5 hours ago, netlyon2 said:

As @The Crazed Spruce mentions, a lot of what Madame Gao is doing now was first established in Daredevil S1

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  • She was a part of the diverse group that Wilson Fisk was using to break down Hell's Kitchen.  She could speak English fluently, but chose to have Wesley (man, I miss that guy) translate for her.  Fisk definitely seemed to respect and fear her above the other members of their coalition.
  • IIRC, she was not openly connected to The Hand; Nobu was.  I wonder if, since his sort-of demise, she has taken over his part of the operation as well.  I think he controlled the docks (hence the delivery of the Black Sky).
  • Madame Gao's role in the operation was the production and distribution of the heroin (marked with the dragon symbol even back then).  She had her blind(ed) devotees cooking it up in warehouses and then acting as couriers escorted by the Russian taxi operation.  
  •  I'm fairly certain that she was behind (or at least instrumental in) the poisoning of Fisk's girlfriend, Vanessa, when she became a distraction for him.

 

Thank you for that. I forgot most of it.

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Man, Danny has that whole "basically raised by some harsh teacher who just wants to use him as a weapon against the Hand" thing in common with Matt. Can't wait to see them compare notes on that aspect of their childhood.

Danny and Matt can also compare notes on how they both got thrown across a room by Madame Gao.

I really hope they have a conversation about this. Not that they'd admit that they both had their asses kicked by her ;). But I hope they do show them discuss their similar upbringings and that their fight overlaps a lot.

I'm confused about why was he hallucinating the monk? It kind of took me out of the episode and was awkward to watch.

Edited by blueray.
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33 minutes ago, blueray said:

I'm confused about why was he hallucinating the monk? It kind of took me out of the episode and was awkward to watch.

I figured it was his imagination taking on a form that represented his training/purpose, kind of how someone might imagine an absent parent or mentor to help work through a problem (say, Luke Skywalker seeing Obi-Wan Kenobi).  That gives us, the audience, a deeper understanding of the views and responsibility that have been drilled into Danny, so that it has greater impact when he rejects that teaching in order to follow his conscience.

[Personally, I'm finding this aspect of the story to be distasteful when combined with Marvel's decision to keep Danny white, but we'll see where it goes.]

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Danny is too stupid to function. Madame Gao says she has no use for honor, so he does exactly what she says. Fool! Don't barter with knaves. If she already reneged the terms once; why believe she wouldn't again and kill the girl anyway two seconds later. Sure, she didn't, but he strikes me as an idiot who seems to take everything anyone says to him at face value without a second thought.

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So, Danny accepts some kind of trial, where he will save Sabine if he fights in a tournament against two wiseass chefs, a sexy lady obsessed with spiders, and a badass assassin, who loves bad karaoke!  Danny beats the first two and pretty much wipes the third one too, only for Madame Gao to put a knife to Sabine's throat, and tell Danny to withdrawal, and she will be spared.  Danny does, and Gao.... actually keeps her word.  Really thought she was going to kill her anyway.  Oh, and Danny has apparently disappointed his mentor now, or whoever that is that is stuck in his head, and dishing out both advice and putdowns.  Whoever that guy is would really get along with Stick, I think.

Of course, now that he saved Sabine, the chemist has been recaptured, after Colleen and Claire are forced to take him to a hospital, and The Hand recaptures him.  Oh, well, at least it was fun seeing those two characters interact some more, even if they have inadvertently probably caused Danny more issues going forward.

Ward is getting worse and worse by the minute.  I can only imagine what Harold is thinking, but Joy is still the one I'm keeping an eye on.  I think she is generally worried for him, but at the same time, she has always been loyal to the company to a fault, and I wonder if even blood will be enough to prevent her from choosing the company, if things start really getting dicey.

Noticed RZA directed this, which was kind of amusing, since he had directed that film years ago, called The Man with the Iron Fists, with Russell Crowe, Lucy Liu, a pre-Guardians of the Galaxy Dave Batista, and a bunch of awesome Asian actors kicking ass like Rick Yune, Byron Mann, and Daniel Wu. 

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I'm under the impression the whole tournament was just a way to distract Danny so that Gao can easily recapture the chemist. As a bonus she gets to test him and see how he would react to various situations. Now she knows he's easily fooled! Maybe that's why she let him live.

I wonder if an Iron Fist is a "there can be only one" kind of deal. If so, as far as Gao is concerned, better this fool be it than some other person who's smarter.

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When did Danny learn to drive? I thought he didn't know how.

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He said he hadn't in a long time in the first episode, not that he couldn't. And if it's not a manual...it's not all that hard...

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6 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

He said he hadn't in a long time in the first episode, not that he couldn't. And if it's not a manual...it's not all that hard...

He said he hadn't driven since his dad put him on his lap and let him drive around their place in the Hamptons.  That sounds like his dad just let him take a few turns on an empty road, while never fully relinquishing control of the car.  I know driving an automatic car isn't that difficult, but it seems like a big leap between being behind the wheel of a car as a child under close parental supervision and driving in NYC traffic.

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Oh, I missed the "lap" aspect of the comment. In my head I was thinking his dad just let him drive the car on private property as a 10 year old...still plenty of people who've been driving for years are terrible drivers (in a way that strikes me as not dissimilar to someone who's barely done it just up and trying) so I'm not super bothered by Danny's sudden driving.

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I'm less bothered by the idea that Danny has started driving than I am that Ward is willing to get into a car with him.  As you said, there are plenty of terrible drivers on the road who believe themselves competent.  But Ward actually knows that until very very recently Danny's only driving experience was steering a car around the Hamptons while his Dad pushed the pedals.  That's madness.  

Edited by xqueenfrostine.
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4 hours ago, theatremouse said:

He said he hadn't in a long time in the first episode, not that he couldn't. And if it's not a manual...it's not all that hard...

I don't know how to drive, and I wouldn't be able to just get behind a wheel, and drive that smoothly.

2 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

I'm less bothered by the idea that Danny has started driving than I am that Ward is willing to get into a car with him.  As you said, there are plenty of terrible drivers on the road who believe themselves competent.  But Ward actually knows that until very very recently Danny's only driving experience was steering a car around the Hamptons while his Dad pushed the pedals.  That's madness.  

That surprised me, too. That's why I asked. 

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The good news is that it is the halfway mark and we're still watching. Luke Cage didn't make it this far .. 

The bad news is that the writing is pretty bad. And I'm tired of seeing the brother and sister all the time. The show doesn't seem to remember the characters' motivations, such as : Joy is the one who helped Danny to be recognized and brought into the company - but now she is asking her brother, who was against it, to be Danny's babysitter. Why? 
I wish there were more interesting supporting characters for Danny to interact with. 

Danny has been a billionaire for only a few days and already he is acting like the typical rich douchebag : buying people's buildings, driving expensive cars, arranging catered gourmet take-out food, etc. And he has the nerve to say that money is not what matters.. 

Still, though, there is enough action to keep things chugging along.

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This show bemuses me. Is it right that I'm rooting for the hand at this point?

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The title of this story (Why Doesn't Anyone On Iron Fist Talk To The Hand?) has been cracking me up all day, well done.

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Funniest part of the episode was how the Iron Fist's biggest weakness (as a celibate guy raised in a monistary) is a hot girl in lingerie coming on to him.

The fights were all good but i think i liked Colleen kicking the ass of that Hand guy in the hospital best.

Also thought it was interesting that Ward's deal appeared to be a pain killer addiction, not some kind of magical or MCU super science thing.

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Last couple episodes really picked up.  Always an extreme pleasure to see Madame Gao.

And Ward's somewhat of a redemption is starting? 

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Yikes, the plot holes.  How did Joy know where Ward went when he was drug-seeking at the Urgent Care facility?  Does she have a tracker on his car?

How did The Hand know that Claire & Colleen had brought the Russian dude to the hospital?  I suppose I can fan-wank that they were watching the dojo but only got there after the Russian arrived so that’s why they didn’t break in and seize him.  Then they saw them leave and anticipated which hospital they would go to because  . . . they’re acquainted with Claire thanks to Daredevil, recognized her on sight, knew where she used to work, surmised she was headed there, and had time to contact operatives in or near the hospital who could strong-arm the administrator – all before Claire could even get to the ER door.  Yeah, that’s a stretch.

Like others, I also struggled with Danny’s ability to drive, and in NYC traffic no less.  Which reminds me – having a fast car does NOTHING to guarantee that you can get someplace quickly in Manhattan.  You’re lucky if you can get up to 40 mph on one of the avenues when the lights are all in sync and traffic is light (i.e., late at night or early on a Sunday morning).  During the day?  On a weekday?  Fugitaboutit!  You’re going to be in stop-and-go traffic averaging 15 miles an hour, tops.

Yikes the dialog between Claire & Colleen in the hospital hallway was lame.  “I’m gonna leave this to you.”  “I got this.”  “You make that look easy.”  “It was easy.”  That’s some sparkling repartee there.  (Not.)

Okay I’m intrigued that Madam Gao has been to Kun L’un and has either met another Iron Fist or . . . perhaps she IS an Iron Fist.

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Despite the numerous plot holes, that was a much better episode. 

Yes, there's now way that Danny is driving around in a sports car after a few weeks. Yes, there's no way the Hand would have known that Claire was taking the chemist to the hospital. Yes, we've only seen Ward take the odd pill and have one bender so him going into such strong withdrawal was kind of silly. And, yes, the spider venom woman was also vey silly.

But I actually liked the pared back, verisimilitude of the fight scene and of the stakes involved. I liked that Gao was less interested in the challenge than in examining Danny's behaviour. The actor is still really ordinary and the whole thing still has a student-film vibe. But it's watchable.

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On 4/7/2017 at 8:20 PM, WatchrTina said:

Yikes, the plot holes.  How did Joy know where Ward went when he was drug-seeking at the Urgent Care facility?  Does she have a tracker on his car?

She ran after him when he abruptly left their meeting. I assumed she followed him in her car, considering she was only a minute or two behind him.

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