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S01.E04: Eight Diagram Dragon Palm 2017.03.17

Danny makes a shocking discovery and a radical pricing proposal. Colleen's extracurricular activities go viral, and Ward issues a stern warning.

Edited by The Crazed Spruce. Reason: Added title and description
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So there's a reason for evil dad's youth...

I'm starting to think that Danny's a bit dorky and I like it. It makes sense because he hasn't been living a normal life so the way he reacts to people and things is different. The monks were harsher than I thought. I wonder if Danny had a choice. I mean, I know he wanted to become Iron Fist but why did he stay in the monastery in the first place?

The plot is a bit of a mess, but  I'm still enjoying the show.  I've seen worse.

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Ooh, I liked that elevator scene! I also liked Danny more, this episode. 

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Well, we got the hallway fightdance, Iron Fist style.

The Hand, great. Just what made the back half of Daredevil's second season soooo compelling. At least we're picking up the pace.

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The mysterious youth of Harold Meachum does get a payoff. Cool. Liked the bit with the Triad and their fear of the Hand. One of the things I really enjoyed about season 1 of Daredevil was the dynamics and conflicts of the politics involving different criminal factions in the city. The Hand screwed up by indulging Meachum, though, as the Triad was ready to back off entirely.

I'm half-convinced that Joy might be working with the Hand, but the jury is still out. I'm not entirely sure, either, what Ward intended with that interview. He had to have been aware that telling the reporter about Rand's philanthropy would not be taken as a negative by the press; his smirk seemed to suggest that news is what he wanted as well, but at least the impression I think we are supposed to get is that he was somehow undermining Danny. In any event, I would be very surprised if Rand Corps doesn't benefit from the news- they may have lost millions in profits, but the goodwill Danny's act buys them is priceless. I hope this is also a trend of Danny doing good with his money and power- I'd especially like to see him do something to benefit the homeless in the city, after his experiences upon his return to New York (and especially on behalf of the kindly and late Big Al).

Colleen seems to be going down a dark road, and I'm not sure why. I don't know if they're going to have her father as a character this season; he was in the early issues of Iron Fist's series, and I think it might help to explore her character further by delving into her past, but we'll see.

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9 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I'm starting to think that Danny's a bit dorky and I like it. It makes sense because he hasn't been living a normal life so the way he reacts to people and things is different. The monks were harsher than I thought. I wonder if Danny had a choice. I mean, I know he wanted to become Iron Fist but why did he stay in the monastery in the first place?

The plot is a bit of a mess, but  I'm still enjoying the show.  I've seen worse.

Didn't Danny say that Kung Lung was only accessible when there was a celestial tilt every 15 years. So once he entered he couldn't leave the alternate dimension for 15 years. Hence why he was gone for so long. 

I'm guess surviving Kung Lung and preparing to fight the Hand is more strenuous than a normal childhood. 

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Daredevil name drop! Karen name drop! Hallway fight! Elevator fight!

Hey this is getting better.

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Ah, so Harold was dying of cancer, but The Hand saved him Elektra-style, so that his why he is indebted to them.  It sounds like pretty much all of his decision-making concerning the Rand corporation, is part of The Hand's plan as well, so that's why things like buying the pier doesn't make sense to Joy, but it will benefit The Hand.  Interesting.  Harold is almost making The Hand watchable for once.  David Wenham is always a treat.

Not surprised that Danny's coming back into the company would shake things up, as his believes and feelings would not fit in with the cutthroat corporate world.  He is totally someone who would not be down with overpricing medicine that could save a lot of lives.  I guess Ward's bit with the reporter was to make sure write a positive spin on it, might making himself look like a spiteful, bitter suit.  Which... actually isn't much of a stretch for him!

Colleen is continuing to get into the cage fighting.  Not sure where this is heading.  I hope they find a way to get more scenes between her and Joy.

The elevator fight scene was actually pretty solid.

Probably the best episode so far.

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I knew as soon as Joy showed up wearing pants that there would be an attack at some point. It's like the British TV series The Avengers in that way.

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19 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

So there's a reason for evil dad's youth...

I'm starting to think that Danny's a bit dorky and I like it. It makes sense because he hasn't been living a normal life so the way he reacts to people and things is different. The monks were harsher than I thought. I wonder if Danny had a choice. I mean, I know he wanted to become Iron Fist but why did he stay in the monastery in the first place?

The plot is a bit of a mess, but  I'm still enjoying the show.  I've seen worse.

My guess is he had nowhere else to go as the portal only opens every 15 years.  I also imagine it wasn't all bad, or he would have tried to leave. I am fascinated on how he clearly has culture shock. Since he left the "our" world at the age of 10,  he grew up in that culture. He doesn't relate to the life of money and has no business sense what so ever.  I do find it also interesting how he worked toward a goal of becoming the iron fist but never thought it all away through.  I am finding myself more interested in his childhood than now.  I am still wishing for flashbacks to show me instead of him just telling it.

Of course the hallway fight scene. It had to be there. I actually thought it was a good fight, obviously not even close to how good Daredevil is, but still a good one.

Edited by blueray.
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At this point I don't understand why The Hand, which have been Japanese and Ninja based, is being connected to Iron Fist and Madame Gao.

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9 hours ago, blueray said:

I am fascinated on how he clearly has culture shock. Since he left the "our" world at the age of 10,  he grew up in that culture. He doesn't relate to the life of money and has no business sense what so ever.

I'd love to know more about K'un Lun and its culture. They seem to speak Chinese so perhaps the culture is similar? I hope we get flashbacks the way DD, JJ, and LC had. 

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First episode thread I'm posting in.  I really like this show so far.  Not Marvel's best but I think the critics  were wrong in their reviews, but then I stopped listening to them after I loved Sense8.

I can't believe that I'm saying this but I LOVE Finn Jones with facial hair and he can be surprisingly charming in a way.  He's a dweeb and a bit of a space case in some ways.  But I did like the Fish out of water aspects of him at Rand Industries.   I actually feel for him and have for the past few episodes when it was clear that he viewed Ward and Joy as family but it was not reciprocal.  And  love his friendship with Joy and hope it continues.   The Beachams are a dark group but I kind of like them from a character perspective.

Not wild on Colleen as of yet.  I don't dislike her but I'm not a fan yet.  I'm kind of hoping that she isn't Danny's love interest only because I really prefer his traditional comic book love interest.  But We'll see.

Madam Gao is a REALLY good villainess.  If an evil doer lives a long time, that usually means they are VERY good at it.

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51 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Not wild on Colleen as of yet.  I don't dislike her but I'm not a fan yet.  I'm kind of hoping that she isn't Danny's love interest only because I really prefer his traditional comic book love interest.  But We'll see.

I agree with this.

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12 hours ago, Advance35 said:

First episode thread I'm posting in.  I really like this show so far.  Not Marvel's best but I think the critics  were wrong in their reviews, but then I stopped listening to them after I loved Sense8.

I can't believe that I'm saying this but I LOVE Finn Jones with facial hair and he can be surprisingly charming in a way.  He's a dweeb and a bit of a space case in some ways.  But I did like the Fish out of water aspects of him at Rand Industries.   I actually feel for him and have for the past few episodes when it was clear that he viewed Ward and Joy as family but it was not reciprocal.  And  love his friendship with Joy and hope it continues.   The Beachams are a dark group but I kind of like them from a character perspective.

Not wild on Colleen as of yet.  I don't dislike her but I'm not a fan yet.  I'm kind of hoping that she isn't Danny's love interest only because I really prefer his traditional comic book love interest.  But We'll see.

Madam Gao is a REALLY good villainess.  If an evil doer lives a long time, that usually means they are VERY good at it.

I thought the critics were overly harsh as well. I am enjoying the show. The dynamic of Ward and his father is fascinating and you can tell why he was a bully to Danny when he was a kid. I'm interested to see if/when Joy ever learns her father is alive.

I like the way Finn is speaking, it's always a soft tone, which to me is portraying the whole zen center the chi aspect of the character.

I really like Colleen. I think the character has potential.

I was stoked in the prior episode when Madam Gao showed up at Harold's penthouse, tying this in with what we have seen on Daredevil. And it took me awhile to realize who the actor was, I kept trying to place him, and I don't think it was until the 3rd or 4th episode that I figured out he was from 300.

I too loved Sense8

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11 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

And it took me awhile to realize who the actor was, I kept trying to place him, and I don't think it was until the 3rd or 4th episode that I figured out he was from 300.

He also played Faramir in LOTR.

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So we actually got a reason why Harold looks so young! The Hand stuck him in that resurrection container they put Elektra in, and now he doesn't age and his cancer is gone, but he's stuck in his house and indebted to The Hand. Certainly more interesting than the never ending parade of Ninjas from the back half of Daredevil season 2.

Danny was actually more interesting this episode, I think his feelings of culture shock are interesting. I am really fascinated by K'un Lun and its culture. It sounds like brutal training and a harsh upbringing, but Danny must have found something about it fulfilling, or there must have been good things too, as he has really embraced it and its culture, and doesn't seem all that bitter about the brutal training. He seems to be like "yeah it sucked and it lead to some bad memories, but it was for a purpose so its alright", which is an interesting way to look at an upbringing like that. With most characters who are trained to fight at a young age, they tend to either be bitter about their childhoods, are grow up totally devoted to the people who trained them. Maybe its a bit different because Danny was already 10, and he was working towards something he wanted, but still, I hope that his feelings towards his time in K'un Lun are explored more. It also seemed more like he wanted to become the Iron Fist to prove himself, or as something to push himself towards, instead of because he wanted the responsibilities, even though he does seem to take them seriously.

 I can only assume that Ward was trying to make Danny look good to the press for some reason. Why else would he tell that reporter about Danny forcing them to help them get medicine to sick people for cheaper? He couldn't have possibly thought that he would look good there. Why he's doing that, I don't know. Some kind of plan against dad, who he seems to have major issues with?

Also, props to Joy for getting a few punches in during the elevator fight. It wasn't much, I appreciate the effort, especially from a woman who I doubt has had much in the way of fight training.

Edited by tennisgurl.
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I laughed when Danny went to hug "J-Money" and Hogarth told him we don't do that.

Good episode with some good fight scenes.  Though Danny still strikes me as not exactly the brightest bulb.

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Hubby and I watched the first four eps of Iron Fist last night.  We were both hooked right away, so it was quite shocking when our daughter came in and said that the reviewers pretty much hated it and thought it was the worst Marvel/Netflix show so far.  I'd easily rank it up there with Jessica Jones and Daredevil, meanwhile I was bored to tears by Luke Cage until Claire showed up, so I don't understand this at all.  Moving on.

It took me a couple of episodes to realize that Danny is not just being a too-trusting idiot because of Plot Reasons, he actually really is that innocent and naive because he hasn't dealt with the outside world since he was 10 years old, so bravo to the show for not hitting us over the head with that one.  I kinda love that he was wandering around barefoot in dirty "street clothes" because what 10 year old actually pays that much attention to what people are wearing?  I think there are some fascinating subtleties to this character that are going to come out as we get to know him more, and I think the actor is doing a great job making this just be a natural part of who Danny is.  I literally laughed-out-loud when the first thing he did in his new office was crawl under the desk to see if his dinosaur stickers were still there.  Jeri's reaction was priceless.

Up until the reveal that Harold had been brought back to life by The Hand, we were assuming he was just another mustache-twirling villain who had faked his own death so he could carry on his nefarious deeds without interference, so that gave his character some very interesting layers I'm excited to see play out.

We had written off Ward as a self-absorbed a-hole with all the subtlety of a train wreck early on, but then instead of threatening (or worse) the reporter he called into his office like we expected, he gave her a real scoop on Danny, so suddenly there's potential there for him to not be such a one-note character.  Interesting.  

I'm very 'meh' on Colleen so far, hoping her character picks up soon.

I have a question about the crossover shows so I'll put it in spoiler tags -

Spoiler

Did we know already that Madame Gao was working directly with The Hand?  If so, I never picked up on that.

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It's a little easier to watch if you just remember that Danny is basically still a stunted 10-year old. I've decided this is a deliberate choice on the part of the creators, despite the fact that it's never really addressed on the show other than in one or two comments.

I mean - he gets to be on a corporate board, despite not having a high school diploma (or actually progressing past the 4th grade, right? even with his home-schooling). And I'm assuming if he's spent his entire time in a monastery, he hasn't spent a lot of time with...women? (and not even in a romantic sense. Just in an...interacting with women as human beings sense?)

So I'd be willing to go with the idea that Danny is still essentially a child, if the REST of the show were in any way hanging together well, but it's just so disjointed - too many plotlines, too many people with too many motives, too many "shifting" bad guys.

Especially after the first three series had such strong, character-based points of view - even when they weren't 100%, they were really trying to go deep. This is all surface.

And (no spoilers) watching further into the season, there is zero reason Danny needed to be white. To juxtapose him against a largely POC cast playing support to his white savior and/or "bad guys" only highlights how much they fucked up here.

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6 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

 

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Did we know already that Madame Gao was working directly with The Hand?  If so, I never picked up on that.

Spoiler

No.  In Daredevil Season 1, Nobu was the Hand representative within Fisk's coalition of mobsters.  At the time, Gao did seem to know more about the Hand than the other characters, but I assumed that was just because Madame Gao had been around for a very long time and had gained plenty insight into her rivals over the years.

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8 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:
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No.  In Daredevil Season 1, Nobu was the Hand representative within Fisk's coalition of mobsters.  At the time, Gao did seem to know more about the Hand than the other characters, but I assumed that was just because Madame Gao had been around for a very long time and had gained plenty insight into her rivals over the years.

Spoiler

Thanks!  Glad to know I hadn't just missed that entirely.  Madame Gao is a clever one, for sure.  In many ways I find her the most dangerous of all the villains.

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I'm really enjoying this show so far! I watched the first four episodes back to back last night and they worked for me. The completely negative reviews have me baffled. 

On 3/18/2017 at 3:25 PM, blueray said:

My guess is he had nowhere else to go as the portal only opens every 15 years.  I also imagine it wasn't all bad, or he would have tried to leave. I am fascinated on how he clearly has culture shock. Since he left the "our" world at the age of 10,  he grew up in that culture. He doesn't relate to the life of money and has no business sense what so ever.  I do find it also interesting how he worked toward a goal of becoming the iron fist but never thought it all away through.  I am finding myself more interested in his childhood than now.  I am still wishing for flashbacks to show me instead of him just telling it.

All of this, basically. I think the actor is doing a good job at portraying this naivety and childlike wonder at how things work in our world. I mean, he's been away at the monastery since he was 10 and didn't come in contact with our world at all. I don't think I knew anything about anything when I was 10 years old.

Every time I think I have Joy and Ward figured out, something else happens that makes me question my assumptions. I quite like that they are grey characters.

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Ward gave the reporter that story so she would back off the mental institution story.

I'm enjoying this a lot. I heard bad things, but I don't see them. The standard Netflix Marvel hallway fight scene showed up! Oldboy did it with hatchets waaaaay better though.

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On 3/18/2017 at 2:37 AM, Bec said:

Daredevil name drop! Karen name drop! Hallway fight! Elevator fight!

Hey this is getting better.

It is getting better. Also, you should always give Karen the front page.

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On 3/17/2017 at 7:38 PM, Anela said:

Ooh, I liked that elevator scene!

Yeah, that was cool.  The red lighting and the video game music playing were nice touches.

On 3/18/2017 at 11:25 AM, blueray said:

My guess is he had nowhere else to go as the portal only opens every 15 years.  I also imagine it wasn't all bad, or he would have tried to leave. I am fascinated on how he clearly has culture shock.

Yeah, Danny said every moment was challenging.  Given the spiritual aspects, I imagine life was hard, but rewarding.  And as you say, it makes total sense that his character is kind of naive.

I'm only four episodes in, but I don't understand where the critics are coming from.  Don't see this series being too far off the mark in comparison to the other Marvel series.  I've always kind of liked this character though, so maybe I'm more forgiving.  This may have been the Netflix series I was looking forward to the most, outside of perhaps Daredevil.

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I will admit I am watching for Ward's awesome eye rolling and Colleen Wing's fight scenes.

I love Ward so much. Sure he's evil, but he is funny evil. He just wants to get through his day and have a few bourbons.

I am looking forward to seeing Jessica Jones kick Danny's ass.

Does anyone else think Finn looks like Joshua Jackson with that hair/beard combo?

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On 3/21/2017 at 3:49 AM, Teitr Styrr said:

Ward gave the reporter that story so she would back off the mental institution story.

That's what I think too.  He's also doing the make lemonade-out-of-lemons thing in that if they now have to forego all that profit then at the very least they should win some big positive PR for doing the altruistic thing.  At least, I THINK that's what he's doing.  I'm not really clear why Ward went to such lengths to portray himself negatively -- to make sure he gets written up as the "bad guy" who opposed the move.  I do suspect there is more afoot in that.

I still have very mixed feelings about this show.  I laughed through Danny's hallway fight scenes and I don't know why.  I'm afraid it's because I know the actor is not really a martial artist so no matter how well they shoot it I'm pre-disposed to think his moves look lame.  

I'm also not clear on why Colleen fought the second time.  Did she just do it for the money or did she see the merit of promoting herself in order to boost attendance at the school (like her student suggested) or did she just like beating up dudes?

This show is so twisty.  The Hand are the bad guys, aren't they?  Aren't they what Danny, as "Iron Fist" is pledged to fight? And yet, in this episode we see Danny mentioning their name and, by doing so, instantly getting the Triad guys to back down.  The enemy of my enemy is . . . my sworn enemy.  Just so twisty.  

Also, why is that it's okay for Danny to know that Harold is alive but if Joy finds out The Hand will kill her?  Is this one of those it's-better-to-apologize-than-ask-permission things?  They can't blame Harold for Danny finding out because Danny broke into the penthouse?  All I know is that when Joy eventually finds out that her father is alive and both Danny and Ward kept it from her, well, that's going to be the end of that happy family circle.

I'm enjoying parts of it.  The dialog still makes me groan.  I hope someone gets sent to the hospital soon so they can run into Claire.

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I'm not thinking Joy is as innocent in everything as I previously thought, and maybe Ward is getting a future redemption.  He seemed pleased with the article.  Also my favorite character.

I think the only drag is, everything is just so convenient... if that makes sense.

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On 27/03/2017 at 10:02 AM, jeansheridan said:

I love Ward so much. Sure he's evil, but he is funny evil. He just wants to get through his day and have a few bourbons.
 

He's the one character that's working for me in terms of the acting. Oh, except for David Wenham of course who is far too good for this vehicle. 

It's getting marginally more interesting but it still looks like a student film. The sets look like Days of Our Lives and the lighting looks like Neighbours. 

It looks like I'm watching a TV show and I can't work out if that's deliberate for some reason or a stylistic choice that went wrong.

No idea what Colleen's plot line is for or why she's in the show now that Danny isn't in the dojo. 

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