S06.E09: Sock Puppets 2017.03.19

22 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Dirty old man" sounds like Dar was just engaging in some overly vigorous horseplay or leering at boys' bodies. That's why I don't think Dar had sex with Quinn but probably did do so with other boys

I can understand this because it did seem light, but I thought the tone of this portion of the scene was played, in part, for humor.  Both Dar and Quinn kept it light, Dar's "yeah well...and "fair enough."  For Quinn, there might be a lack of clarity due to his aphasia, and for Dar, it might be denial, which we see continues with his seemingly genuine ILY in this episode.  I don't know, but there is, at least, a sexual component to this relationship even if it's Dar, over the years, staring and/or touching Quinn inappropriately.  There's something sick here, as I felt my stomach drop in these scenes, even when tone had some humor on the dock.  

Edited by sunflower.
  • 0

Share Post


Link to post

I didn't get any humor or lightness from Quinn's tone. He spit out "fucking dirty old man" with pure and utter disgust.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
Quote

I know Clare Danes is the star, but he (and F. Murray) to me are the interesting, best-acted characters. 

At this point, I find Carrie to be the least interesting and most one-note character on the show, and I think it was a mistake to really take her out of the loop and concentrate so much on her role as a mother.  I'm tired of the ugly cry, I'm tired of the forehead crinkle and I'm tired of the constant bad decision making.  I know that part of that is her character, but she just doesn't do it for me anymore.  I find even minor characters to be more interesting than her at this point.  Even the Carrie/Saul scene didn't move me like it normally would, but I am glad that Saul reminded her of her bad romantic decision making as well.

God help me, I thought that Quinn putting Astrid's blood on his face to be very moving/romantic.  I love Quinn.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

Even the Carrie/Saul scene didn't move me like it normally would, but I am glad that Saul reminded her of her bad romantic decision making as well.

I actually thought that this was uncharacteristically petulant of Saul.  Sure, Carrie's done some dumb things but the one who landed them in the shit in Berlin was Saul.  I know Saul's feeling a bit frazzled (seeing as his career is over) and embarrassed, but it was still seemed a bit childish.  Saul screwed a mole and covered it up (or at least left stuff out of his report), this one's all on him.  Carrie helped straighten this shit out, nearly died, and kept his actions secret (until recently).  Might want to ease up there, Saul. 

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I didn't get any humor or lightness from Quinn's tone. He spit out "fucking dirty old man" with pure and utter disgust.

Dar's immediate answer that it was consensual puts it paid for me.  "I never forced myself on anybody"?  What's that even mean to a kid?  Dar's a pedo, and deluded if he thinks Peter is gonna respond well to 'but I love you'.  

Edited by henripootel.
  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

it seems to me Quinn wouldn't have couched it in such a relatively benign way.

What if we are all seeing in black or white when this subject is more complex? I'm thinking about the children whose parents have sexually abused them as kids and they still love them as adults. They claim they know what their parents did was wrong but they love them because they're family and also did good things to them. imo they think that way because they are still traumatised. Usually, the children who had emotional support from other members of the family cut ties with the abusive parents, and the ones who continued in the same abusive environment for years are the ones who can't cut ties.

 

With Quinn, we don't know the full story but I guess it's not the first time Dar tells him he's "his child" knowing he can manipulate him because he's the father figure. As an adult, Quinn knows what Dar did (to him or other kids) is disgusting, but he's still his father and deep inside him still loves him. Quinn didn't have anyone and I doubt he's been in therapy if he was abused, so he's been in a toxic environment for decades with the abuser being his boss. What is clear to me is that Quinn is an emotional roller coaster when he's with Dar.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post

I don't think Dar abused Quinn or had sex with him, he raised him like his son, Dar is manipulative son of a bitch, that dialogue for me meant he wanted Quinn to man up and not be miserable.

I also think that Dar knew Quinn was listening when he called that guy, so Quinn could kill him.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It's the "dirty old man" thing that's giving me pause. To me, if a man seduces a young boy, later the adult victim would call the guy a predator, a rapist, a pedophile, or an abuser. "Dirty old man" sounds like Dar was just engaging in some overly vigorous horseplay or leering at boys' bodies. That's why I don't think Dar had sex with Quinn but probably did do so with other boys. Otherwise, it seems to me Quinn wouldn't have couched it in such a relatively benign way.

 

I'll respectfully disagree.   One, Quinn has a speech impaired TBI.  Two, I have worked with a wide variety of abuse victims and I think the language they are much more likely to use is the less clinical 'dirty ol' man' then the abuser, rapist, pedophile, etc.  The language is often protective of the abuse victim that they don't have to specifically say what happened to them, but can say that something did in fact happen.  

I have no question that Dar fucked Quinn when he was a teenager.  

  • 2

Share Post


Link to post
Quote

What if we are all seeing in black or white when this subject is more complex?

I agree that within the context of the show it could be more complex. However, so far, I think they've left plenty of wiggle room. Unless Quinn or Dar specifically says something like, "You had sex with me" or "I had sex with you" (or another character confirms it somehow), I don't think it's certain either way. The whole thing seems like a last minute soap opera-ish development to me anyway. If they're going to have Quinn kill Dar, there might be few better reasons than because Dar sexually abused him as a boy. Interesting that this detail would pop up right before they're perhaps getting ready to send Dar and/or Quinn out the door as characters.

The plot point surprised and amused me because on Scandal--Homeland if it were written by 12-year olds--there's been a similar one in place for a couple of seasons now. Scandal's version of Dar calls another character his son, even though they're not biologically related and said "son" was once the lover of the Dar-equivalent character's actual daughter. On Scandal we saw the Quinn-equivalent being isolated and tortured to the point of total breakdown. Then he was rebuilt into a dark ops agent who was part of a super secret spy agency operating outside the authority of all other US agencies and government officials. The Dar-equivalent commanded this secret agency and his MO has been to subjugate his agents by abusing them, mostly verbally after they've been "broken." So when Dar started calling Quinn his son, my eyes practically rolled out of my head at the hopefully unintentional similarity to Scandal. Heaven help us if Homeland is now stealing from Scandal of all places.

  • 0

Share Post


Link to post

For me, it's less about whether Dar slept with Quinn, it's that the writers felt the need to toss that grenade onto the 'Dar is evil' pile more than 3 seasons after they both show up. I think it was done as a cheap shot to get anyone who still liked the character to move to the other side. I say cheap, because they've done everything but given Dar a mustache to twirl this season:  taking a child away from her mother, blowing up a teenager along with part of New York, kidnapping the POTUS elect, killing Astrid (by accident maybe), telling the one woman he seems to love that she is responsible for his condition, taking all power away from Saul, etc.

Seems all that would have been enough.

  • 2

Share Post


Link to post
57 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

me, it's less about whether Dar slept with Quinn, it's that the writers felt the need to toss that grenade onto the 'Dar is evil' pile more than 3 seasons after they both show up. I think it was done as a cheap shot to get anyone who still liked the character to move to the other side.

This is an excellent point, so from a writing perspective, what's a good argument for introducing this story element outside of making Dar totally evil?  What's weird is I still see him as a human being, maybe that's Abraham's good acting helping the way.  I can't imagine he survives the season, unless it's in shadows to leave the country and show up somewhere unexpected next season.  

Edited by sunflower.
  • 0

Share Post


Link to post
On 3/20/2017 at 7:56 AM, lullaby said:

What I fully don't understand is that Quinn seemed moved by his words. He's not a minor anymore and knows fully well Dar is a grade a manipulator. Yet Quinn was shivering when Dar told him he loves him and couldn't pull the trigger. I saw it as Quinn kind of loving him too because Dar is his father figure, the person who raised him.

Yes. Adal is Quinn's father -- that is, his savior and his maker. I agree with lullaby's considered re-interpretation:

6 hours ago, lullaby said:

With Quinn, we don't know the full story but I guess it's not the first time Dar tells him he's "his child" knowing he can manipulate him because he's the father figure. As an adult, Quinn knows what Dar did (to him or other kids) is disgusting, but he's still his father and deep inside him still loves him.

The intimate and profoundly coersive mystique that Adal has practiced upon Quinn for decades is a violation akin to incest. To me, the show has, for now, left it deliberately ambiguous whether Adal molested Quinn physically -- at the same time Adal himself acknowledged that he molested Quinn's fellows, an admission couched in a rationalization: "I never forced myself on anyone." I think it's Carrie to whom Peter will make it clear.

  • 0

Share Post


Link to post
17 hours ago, henripootel said:

Dar's immediate answer that it was consensual puts it paid for me.  "I never forced myself on anybody"?  

According to law, Quinn was a kid and unable to "consent". In the eyes of the law (and ethically if, as we understand it, he took Quinn in like a foster) it was rape.

  • 2

Share Post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

According to law, Quinn was a kid and unable to "consent". In the eyes of the law (and ethically if, as we understand it, he took Quinn in like a foster) it was rape.

Oh, I know that perfectly well.  It was Dar's tone which suggested that since he never 'forced himself' on anyone, everything was just hunky-dory.  We don't know Dar's exact legal relationship with Quinn at that point nor Quinn's exact age, but it doesn't matter - Dar's a piece of shit.  His of-late protestations of love make me want to see him die more, not less.  

Edited by henripootel.
  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
On 3/20/2017 at 1:04 PM, ahpny said:

but what exactly tipped Dar off? The suggestion of day time drinking?

I think it was the hint that she'd appoint Dar to Director. "Nothing's off the table!" she said, while making him coffee. ...And that was just a Nice Too Far. And while I'm in that room, allow me to vent about PEOTUS being the one to make coffee. Totally NOT ALL RIGHT! No man PEOTUS would do such a thing and it makes me nuts that they have Keane doing so. Unless it was part of her plan, but it still grates on my very last nerve.*

OMG, I was yelling at the screen for Quinn to shoot Dar, and was disappointed that he didn't. But! His plan to get Dar to phone the Lurking Neighbor couldn't have unfolded without Dar being left alive, so I have to temper my grumbling. (Yeah, I'm on the Dar Raped Baby Quinn train. Not that I'm in favor of it -- I mean that I think that's what the show/actors are conveying.

*In the early days of my professional career, I was often tasked with making coffee in offices that weren't my own, just because I was The Woman. I consequently have learned complete ignorance about all things coffee, to divert any such future sexist assumptions. Which still happen, yea, these 30 years later. Nerves? Grated.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post

Weren't we told in some season that Quinn was 15 when Dar took him in? It could be a figment of my imagination but it seems it came up around the time he was seeing the big girl.

  • 1

Share Post


Link to post
1 hour ago, attica said:

*In the early days of my professional career, I was often tasked with making coffee in offices that weren't my own, just because I was The Woman. I consequently have learned complete ignorance about all things coffee, to divert any such future sexist assumptions. Which still happen, yea, these 30 years later. Nerves? Grated.

For me it happened at my second job in 1972. I was the only female employee (engineering) aside from a secretary/receptionist up front. A few days in, I happened to come in very early. The first guy in after me walked up to my drawing board and said, "I'm surprised you didn't get the coffee started." I completely deadpanned, "Remain surprised. Don't drink it -don't make it." And I never have 45 years later. I credit my dad for the advice regarding making coffee in the office.

Edited by Ina123.
  • 0

Share Post


Link to post

I just re-watched and realized Quinn is going full on Rambo-veteran with a gun pushed too far. He might just end up in the street, shirtless with a bandana tied around his head, yelling while shoot his gun in the air.

Please, show. Make this happen. Please.

  • 0

Share Post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now