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S04.E03: Heads of State 2017.01.20

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When one of Crane's greatest foes comes to town to threaten the safety of Washington's highest officials, the team must work quickly to find a solution. Jake's extensive knowledge of the tunnels becomes an important piece of the puzzle as they uncover a secret from the past that could lead to answers.

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I'm still interested in these characters--well, except for the evil businessman.  Don't need another one of those in our lives.  In fact, I couldn't help thinking when I saw the president whom Headless was after, "Oh, man, I wish she was really the POTUS instead of the guy we got today."

Edited by Sparkling Beth.
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Dreyfuss is the most boring villain since Abraham Van Bland. Jeremy Davies is just. so. bad. So, so bad. Ugh.

But! I liked everything else about this. Even though it was in parts a walk down the memory lane for Ichabod, Jenny and the viewers. I liked that the Headless was back, and how they made up the stuff about heads of states having magical powers. I think they had great callbacks both for how intimidating and scary the Headless is supposed to be and also the Headless on the bike in the police uniform was clearly the T-1000 from Terminator 2: Judgment Day wink.

A very topical flashback from Ichabod about Benjamin Banneker, and the entire convo between them was the best thing about this episode. I liked how Jake was fanboying Banneker and Ichabod both. And how Ichabod was forced to reveal who he actually is. "I'd once read an account by a colonial officer, unnamed, which described a visit to Banneker's Maryland workshop in 1777."? Oh, Ichabod, you ain't sleek!

Diane's reaction to Ichabod's everything was kinda weird. But at least her reaction to Molly being the next Witness is understandable, if frustrating as hell.

I liked characters' interactions a lot this time around, especially the opening scene about the apartment hunting. Comedy gold! And Jake attempting to flirt with Jenny? She's o out of your league, dude! Everything with Ichabod and IKEA was also gold. "And what the hell is THAT?!" at the end of the episode was perfect!

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Half dozed through most of it (anesthesia  yesterday morning) but it looked like this one was more interesting than the last couple. Diana is starting to bug. I like me some Headless, but not sure about switching the horse for a bike...

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5 hours ago, CooperTV said:

Dreyfuss is the most boring villain since Abraham Van Bland. Jeremy Davies is just. so. bad. So, so bad. Ugh.

Definitely, the whole evil rich tech guy schtick doesn't seem to work here.

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I'm new to Sleepy Hollow after finding it accidentally due to a cross-over with Bones that I watched only because there was nothing else on.  The crossover wasn't really done well, but it was enough for me to read up on Sleepy Hollow and watch the last few episodes of last season online. 

As a result, I'm not gutted over the sacrifice of Abbie, although I liked her and don't see why she was written out of the series.  It's obvious the showrunners want to expand out of Sleep Hollow and into Washington DC, but I still don't see why Abbie had to die.  Couldn't they have just visited DC a lot, or made some supernatural portal to the library in DC when they needed more information?

Instead Crane moves to DC and Jenny joins him there, and they quickly form a new Scooby team.  He's got the two people who run the library, themselves pretty standard characters found in supernatural shows.  They don't seem to have any other life outside the library, so they're onboard with the schitck pretty quickly.

The move also has Crane getting a new partner in the form of a single mother who is quickly becoming annoying because she is trying to save her kid from becoming the new Witness, and I can't even blame her for that, but we all know that unless TPTB find a way to move Abbie's soul to someone else, we're all stuck with the everything revolving around the kid.

Speaking of the kid, don't even get me started on the Magical Child trope.  It seems (to me) to be used on TV when some showrunner wants to shake things up but isn't quite sure how to go about it.  Enter the Magical Child: always a cute kid, wise beyond their years, appealing, and usually somewhat sad because the kid knows even more than the adults that their lot in life sucks.  Meanwhile, the adults spend a lot of time running around trying to protect the kid physically while also trying to protect their childhood and innocence, and constantly end up depending on the kid to save the day.  If the adults manage to deal with the latest catastrophe by themselves, they hover around the Magical Child and congratulate themselves while Magical Child hits a home run in Little League, nails their part in the school play, or finally gets the other kids to attend their birthday party.

Let's not forget the new bad guy.  I can't remember his name, I only remember he's an ass who overacts every line.  He's too annoying to be taken seriously.  I imagine he had to stop going to Starbucks because the employees kept putting his name as 'Melo Man', 'Drama Douche', 'OTT Tool', and 'Face of Meth' on his cups.  Now his minion...I bet that guy got a lot of phone numbers on his cups.

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12 minutes ago, Zahdii said:

As a result, I'm not gutted over the sacrifice of Abbie, although I liked her and don't see why she was written out of the series.  It's obvious the showrunners want to expand out of Sleep Hollow and into Washington DC, but I still don't see why Abbie had to die.  Couldn't they have just visited DC a lot, or made some supernatural portal to the library in DC when they needed more information?

The actress who played Abbie went "New phone who dis" on the producers after she was treated badly by the previous showrunner Mark Goffman during season 2 and decided to quit the show after season 3. Goffman left after season 2, and the season 3's new showrunner treated Abbie and Nicole differently, but she was not having any of that anymore. So they had to write her off.

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52 minutes ago, Zahdii said:

I'm new to Sleepy Hollow after finding it accidentally due to a cross-over with Bones that I watched only because there was nothing else on.  The crossover wasn't really done well, but it was enough for me to read up on Sleepy Hollow and watch the last few episodes of last season online. 

As a result, I'm not gutted over the sacrifice of Abbie, although I liked her and don't see why she was written out of the series.  It's obvious the showrunners want to expand out of Sleep Hollow and into Washington DC, but I still don't see why Abbie had to die.  Couldn't they have just visited DC a lot, or made some supernatural portal to the library in DC when they needed more information?

Instead Crane moves to DC and Jenny joins him there, and they quickly form a new Scooby team.  He's got the two people who run the library, themselves pretty standard characters found in supernatural shows.  They don't seem to have any other life outside the library, so they're onboard with the schitck pretty quickly.

The move also has Crane getting a new partner in the form of a single mother who is quickly becoming annoying because she is trying to save her kid from becoming the new Witness, and I can't even blame her for that, but we all know that unless TPTB find a way to move Abbie's soul to someone else, we're all stuck with the everything revolving around the kid.

Speaking of the kid, don't even get me started on the Magical Child trope.  It seems (to me) to be used on TV when some showrunner wants to shake things up but isn't quite sure how to go about it.  Enter the Magical Child: always a cute kid, wise beyond their years, appealing, and usually somewhat sad because the kid knows even more than the adults that their lot in life sucks.  Meanwhile, the adults spend a lot of time running around trying to protect the kid physically while also trying to protect their childhood and innocence, and constantly end up depending on the kid to save the day.  If the adults manage to deal with the latest catastrophe by themselves, they hover around the Magical Child and congratulate themselves while Magical Child hits a home run in Little League, nails their part in the school play, or finally gets the other kids to attend their birthday party.

Let's not forget the new bad guy.  I can't remember his name, I only remember he's an ass who overacts every line.  He's too annoying to be taken seriously.  I imagine he had to stop going to Starbucks because the employees kept putting his name as 'Melo Man', 'Drama Douche', 'OTT Tool', and 'Face of Meth' on his cups.  Now his minion...I bet that guy got a lot of phone numbers on his cups.

It's a really annoying trope nd it usually plays out the same way.  As for the show, they should've just made a new show entirely instead of yet another unnecessary reboot.

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At least they aren't dragging out the whole "Ichabod is keeping who he really is" anymore, and now everyone already knows (and accepted, because, really: after everything they've already seen, this is not that odd at all.)  Even Molly being the new witness has been revealed.  Of course, the big obstacle now is that Diana is freaking out and refusing to participate now.  That won't last for long.  And while it was dumb of Ichabod to keep it from her from so long, she really is delusional if she thinks she can just ignore all of this.

Good to see Headless again, even if a lot of his screen time was cosplaying as motorcycle cop.  The flashbacks did a good job at reminding everyone how awesome he was.  And they thankfully pretty much ignored the entire Abraham arc.  Of course, he still gets defeated, even though he probably could have finished Ichabod several times, but he just had to take his time.

So, now it is Jake that is crushing on Jenny.  Every non-Ichabod guy seems to fall for her.  And it never ends well.

Dreyfuss continues to be a bust.  Only part I enjoyed was his "I sold my soul to the devil" remark, and not for the reasons the show wanted met to.  I was just amused, because it made me think of Lucifer and, if anything, Lucifer on that show would find Dreyfuss way to boring and uninteresting to give him the time of day.

I wasn't too familiar with Benjamin Banneker, so at least his stuff was interesting.  Yay, for history lessons!  (not including all the magical stuff, of course!)

Ichabod randomly gets attacked by black ink creature.  Alrighty, then!

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I still like this show and am not ready to say goodbye yet, even though I miss SO much about what it started out as. Ichabod apartment hunting, putting together Ikea furniture, and essentially just being himself,  is apparently still more than enough to make it so that I can't not watch the show when I know that it's on. 

It's weird, because I liked this episode even though I still dislike or hate most of the new characters, and the writing is still so ridiculous sometimes. I like Diana less with each episode and I can't quite pinpoint why. I think the "new partner" chemistry just isn't there yet. But I love Jake, especially in the role of Ichabod's attentive fanboy sidekick. I like how he's been a believer and is 100% on board with the supernatural stuff from the get go. I'm sure he's not the first one, but a new person who doesn't repeatedly need convincing even after seeing crazy stuff with his own eyes all the time, is refreshing.

 I'm really glad Jenny is still around. I liked her interactions with Jake. I appreciate that she and Ichabod still talk about Abbie and Joe, and the show hasn't tried to ignore the people and events that happened before. I think that is the biggest factor that has made this reset of the show tolerable and less disappointing for me.

I initially kind of liked the idea that the little girl would be the new witness (apparently I was the only one who didn't see that coming, lol), but then I remembered that I have very low tolerance for precocious children in "grown up" roles on tv shows and in movies. And basically everything Zahdii said upthread about Magical Children. So now I'm just annoyed.

I absolutely LOATHE the new villain too. He is ridiculously bad. I mean, the WORST. SO over the top, annoying, and annoyingly cheesy, he's just horrible.  His minion is interesting though, I wonder what his deal is. 

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I spent too much time dwelling on Diana calling her kid Modigliani when she obviously is more Rockwell. AND ... Jeremy Davis' neck is so skinny! It's not even wide enough to support his head. And The Blob grabs Crane at the end ... kind of a cool ending, enough to make me tune in again next week. Maybe. But I totally HATE Headless ditching the red-eyed horse for a motorcycle ... AND he needs to wear a HELMET? The heck. He went all over Sleepy Hollow headless, why not D.C.?

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I still watch for the irony of the show's being anti-Trump (in its own way), and on Fox, no less.

I do sympathize with Ichabod's plight. He's  in a very awkward place - he's known Diana for a couple of weeks, he has put 2 and 2 together about Molly, her daughter. It takes a lot to tell someone that he's over 200 years old, he's some sort of spiritual Witness, and that his former partner was also a Witness, and that there is a whole lot of supernatural stuff going on. Also, that he believes that her daughter is the new Witness.  Not particularly easy to do so with anyone, as a lot of people will  either tell you where to go, put you in to a nice little box - if not a hospital, or worse. He is also very formal. I don't really like the use of the young child since it can bring an unintentional creep factor. Yes, Diana has a right to be angry.

Perhaps Headless feels that in a big city, the Horse is not the way to go. There may also be laws about riding a motorcycle without a helmet. So, he adapts.

I too prefer the minion over the villain and the lighting is just odd for Dreyfuss - this odd blue light in almost every scene.

Jenny should have a chat with Jake about any guy coming her way usually ends up dead.

Ichabod and the IKEA furniture was gold.

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My wife and I are giving this one more episode to either become a really fun, great show to watch again or get off our Tivo. Why? Well, in no particular order....

We can't stand Jeremy Davies. His acting is terrible and the character is not interesting. We particularly disliked his dismissiveness of the guy coming to him looking for venture capital. Asking what his 50 year, 100 year, and 1000 year plans are and then saying that he's "investing in the future of humanity"? Oh, really? He must not do much investing then because what business is coming up with a 50 or 100 year plan - to say nothing of a 1,000 year plan. That whole thing was beyond ridiculous. And him being a dick to that guy just because he could be a dick ... what was that? It certainly wasn't character-building for Jeremy Davies' character.

Diana. What the hell was with her getting all pissed off that Ichabod didn't tell her up front that he was 265 years old? First episode of the season she's barely able to accept a demon John Wilkes Booth and the magical gun that kills him or really anything else that happened in that episode. This episode, she also didn't believe reports of a headless horseman/motorcycle cop until Ichabod indicated he knew such a thing exists - and even then she was still incredulous. And yet we're supposed to believe that she's sincere in saying that she could have accepted and would have believed that Ichabod is 265 years old? And why would Ichabod believe that she would believe him given her reactions to everything else? Of course, right after all that, she's back to not believing: She doesn't believe the door in the rock wall will appear and she doesn't believe that her daughter is now a Witness. (To be fair, nobody in the audience believes her daughter is a Witness, either, since Diana and Molly are clearly not related to each other - outside of the way in which everyone is related to everyone else - and the Witness' Eternal Soul can only pass to someone that is related to the Witness. And neither of the Mills ladies have had children, yet, nor has the show concerned itself at all with their extended family. This kind of violation of their own universe's rules really irritates me.)

The return of the harmless horseman. Sorry, headless horseman. Exactly why is he coming to Washington DC? And why has he suddenly decided that politically powerful people's heads are themselves powerful (magically)? Assuming he gets the President's head, then what? What's he going to do with it? What are his plans? What's his motivation? What's his end-game? Oh, right. When we need that, the writers will just perform some more hand-wavium and poorly shoehorn some bs into the story even though it'll make no sense.

Tunnels. We are sick of tunnels. And why would anyone in the audience believe there are tunnels running from Benjamin Banneker's remote country home into the heart of Washington DC? They're always running around the same section of tunnel that we're supposed to believe is a different/new section of tunnel than last time. Sorry, it all looks the same. In fact, a lot of it looks exactly like the tunnels from the previous seasons, but with the addition of shiny copper pipes. Yeah, I'm not suspending my disbelief because they added some damn copper pipes.

Finally, in the previews for next week, they're bringing Ichabod's son back? After they killed him off at the end of season 2? And he's trying to get Ichabod killed in some supernatural/afterlife court? Apparently, the writers have forgotten that if Ichabod dies, the harmless headless horseman goes, too - and vice versa. So, it's not like there's any suspense there: Ichabod is probably The Main Character and they clearly need the harmless headless horseman for something. Although, I wouldn't put it past them to violate the rules of their universe again and let either Ichabod or the horseman die without killing both of them.

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23 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

Apparently, the writers have forgotten that if Ichabod dies, the harmless headless horseman goes, too - and vice versa.

Did they tied Ichabod to the Headless again? Was it in season 2, that's why I have no recollection of that happening? Because they definitely had a ritual of severing the bond between the Headless and Ichabod in season 1 already via the Sin Eater.

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51 minutes ago, CooperTV said:

Did they tied Ichabod to the Headless again? Was it in season 2, that's why I have no recollection of that happening? Because they definitely had a ritual of severing the bond between the Headless and Ichabod in season 1 already via the Sin Eater.

Hmmm. I forgot about that, then. Reminding me of that makes the horseman even less interesting.

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Heh, it seemed especially fitting that Crane had that conversation with Banneker on inauguration day!

I totally get Diana wanting to protect her daughter, but hasn't she ever watched Buffy or read The Hero with a Thousand Faces? You can resist the call, but it's going to happen eventually!

It was very sweet of Jake to help Crane find a new place to live (although that does beg the question: where has he been sleeping until now?). Loved Jenny realizing that Crane is a total hipster. I have to point out that maple glazed bacon is not an obscure donut topping though. It's as mainstream as cupcakes and macarons.

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I'm always wondering where Crane lives, how he makes any money, etc.  He's kind of a free-lancer, so no paycheck that I can fathom.   Rent, food, and IKEA furniture aren't free. 

I must be in the minority, but I really like the reboot, including the characters.  Granted, Diana and weapons girl can be annoying, and Jeremy Davies has a weird acting style, but overall I'm liking it.    I was never a huge Abbie fan anyway, so I don't miss her at all.   I'd be fine if Jenny took over as a witness, but we'll see how this goes.

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6 minutes ago, Suzysite said:

I'm always wondering where Crane lives, how he makes any money, etc.  He's kind of a free-lancer, so no paycheck that I can fathom. 

Last year he was living with Abbie in her giant-ass house she bought on the salary of a rookie FBI agent who was working for the first six months, so. What they're doing now seems more realistic, and I'm glad he's not intruding on Jenny in her trailer (even though it'd be hilarious).

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Are they doing some retcon with the Horsemen? It's not like Crane doesn't know who the guy is or his relationship with the Horsemen.

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I must be in the minority, but I really like the reboot, including the characters.  Granted, Diana and weapons girl can be annoying, and Jeremy Davies has a weird acting style, but overall I'm liking it.    I was never a huge Abbie fan anyway, so I don't miss her at all.   I'd be fine if Jenny took over as a witness, but we'll see how this goes.

I feel bad what happened to the actor, and I can respect that people don't like the show now. I'd rather there be a separate thread to harsh on the show and let the episode threads be about the actual episodes. 

Edited by ganesh.
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Why did I think that Abbie was left the house by her mentor who died in the first episode? 

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17 hours ago, ganesh said:

I feel bad what happened to the actor, and I can respect that people don't like the show now. I'd rather there be a separate thread to harsh on the show and let the episode threads be about the actual episodes. 

Don't worry. There's enough wrong with the episodes that I don't have to harsh on the show directly. There may be only one more episode for me, anyway. If the show doesn't improve with this upcoming episode, my wife and I are done.

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15 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Why did I think that Abbie was left the house by her mentor who died in the first episode? 

I remember he left the cabin (in the wood) to Jenny? And since Jenny was in a facility at the time, Ichabod was living in it. I think Abbie was financially supporting him through the first season, don't know what happened when Katrina came back.

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I am torn on this reboot regarding Jennie. Part of me wishes they had just cut off everyone and had a fresh start with just Crane. However, when I watch, Jennie and Ichabod are the only ones I care about and I like their interactions. I wish they had just had the "power" of the witness transfer to Jennie and then go from there. I actually miss Joe.

And I loved Jeremy Davies on Lost, among other things, but I am so tired of the rich-businessman-collecting-artifacts-to-create-some-terrible-something (be it demon or world destroying device) trope. I almost wish Kamar De Los Reyes (the lawyer guy who I don't know his name) would kill him and take over. He's much more interesting to me.

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Hey Ichabod, give me a ring - I rock at assembling IKEA furniture!

On 1/21/2017 at 4:32 PM, saber5055 said:

I spent too much time dwelling on Diana calling her kid Modigliani when she obviously is more Rockwell. AND ... Jeremy Davis' neck is so skinny! It's not even wide enough to support his head. And The Blob grabs Crane at the end ... kind of a cool ending, enough to make me tune in again next week. Maybe. But I totally HATE Headless ditching the red-eyed horse for a motorcycle ... AND he needs to wear a HELMET? The heck. He went all over Sleepy Hollow headless, why not D.C.?

Well, he was trying to blend in a bit in order to get close to the presidential motorcade, so I'll give that a pass

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9 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I remember he left the cabin (in the wood) to Jenny? And since Jenny was in a facility at the time, Ichabod was living in it. I think Abbie was financially supporting him through the first season, don't know what happened when Katrina came back.

When K came back she supported them both.

I like the junior members of the gang, the evil business guy and Jenny.  Not really liking Crane's new look - diminishes his gravitas.  I truly dislike the abrasive and not too bright DHS character.  She may be distasteful enuf to kill this reboot for me.

Really do miss Abby.

This is likely to remain a casual view at best.

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One thing that I've been trying to figure out since the first season is why nobody who meets Ichabod Crane ever says "You mean like in the story of the headless horseman?"  They may or may not believe that he's 265 years old (or whatever it is), hung out with Washington, Franklin, et al, and was married to a witch, but I can't remember anyone ever remarking on his name, other than that "Ichabod" is indeed an unusual name.

When we first met Jake, he got excited about meeting Ichabod Crane "from Sleepy Hollow" and it turned out that he knew the name because he'd been studying some of the wacky stuff that'd been happening in the town of Sleepy Hollow.  Not because he was meeting someone from history, or a character from a story.  In this episode, Jake is nearly at a loss for words in describing "a horseman, who was... headless!"  The phrase "headless horseman" simply does not occur to him, as it would to... well, literally anybody else.

My conclusion is that in this show's reality, most of history is just as we understand it (aside from all the secret occulty stuff that we're learning about), but "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" by Washington Irving, featuring a guy named Ichabod Crane being pursued by The Headless Horseman, does not exist.  No one ever makes reference to it, or anything from it.

Or was all of this already obvious to everyone else?

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1 hour ago, Orbert said:

One thing that I've been trying to figure out since the first season is why nobody who meets Ichabod Crane ever says "You mean like in the story of the headless horseman?"

Possibly some iteration of Genre Blindness?

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A condition afflicting many fictional characters, seen when one demonstrates by their behavior that they have never in their life ever seen the kind of story they're in, and thus have none of the reactions a typical audience member would have in the same situation. Worse, they are unable to learn from any experiences related to their genre.

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I thought it was established early on that 'Sleepy Hollow' as a story just didn't exist. 

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I don't remember if the showrunners et al ever stated it, but from the pilot it was easily inferred that our fictional Ichabod Crane & Sleepy Hollow did not exist in this reality.  Which made it easier to swallow most of the alternate timey-wimey stuff (except for the death of Franklin, sorry, not accepting that one).

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