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Leah's 20/20 Episode: Scientology, a War Without Guns

So, that article explains one thing I've been wondering about - how in the up and down world of being an actor you could afford to spend thousands of $s during those lean years. From what Lucia said, it sounds like you can set up an account with Scientology to fund your future church expenses. The account for her and her mother was $250k. 

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5 hours ago, jrlr said:

I worked in the film industry for 30 years before retiring, and you couldn't be more wrong.  There are hundreds of thousands of under the line jobs that make up the nuts and bolts of production, with or without screen credit and fame.  I'm definitely what you would lump into the "little guy" category, although I got paid very well and now have a lifetime pension and medical coverage.  Yes, it's an industry town, but the industry is nothing like you imagine it to be.  In those 30 years I never met ONE person who thought CO$ was anything more than a money-grabbing cult filled with needy weirdos and a few famous people.  Big F Deal.  Work here for awhile before you make pronouncements about a business you clearly know nothing about.

You misunderstood what I said.  I was not referring to the little guys in the film industry, just the little guys in general, you know, poor folk.  And just so you know, everyone is entitled to have their opinion here, and to express it.

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I viewed it On Demand this morning. I was not impressed with the twitchy lawyer. Nothing was really answered much to my chagrin!

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You know you have watched too many Scientology shows , when you recognize Mike Rinder's voice, accent , without looking at the screen.

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17 hours ago, trow125 said:

The reason Mike calls Monique Yingling "Muffins" is because on the earlier 20/20 (the one promoting Ron Miscavige's book), she brought a basket of muffins and breads "as edible proof" of how great the food is at Scientology's Gold Base. She also called it "a worker's paradise." You can see for yourself on YouTube just after the 17-minute mark.

LMAO! Love Mike! 

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3 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

You know you have watched too many Scientology shows , when you recognize Mike Rinder's voice, accent , without looking at the screen.

You've watched too many Scientology shows when you start pronouncing organization with a long i sound. :-)

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Wow, that was a steaming pile of shit. I cheered Leah when she called that packing-peanut-for-brains reporter an asshole. I don't know which was worse, the way they glossed over nearly everything of import or the way Muffins clearly had no idea of how magnificently absurd she came across.

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On 1/7/2017 at 10:39 AM, AZChristian said:

I just requested the DVD from our local library.  

Thank you - I just did the same.  Never even considered that my library would have this.  I'm both excited and scared to finally watch this.

Edited by laurakaye.
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I think I'm actually blushing.  So it's not just me who finds Mike Rindah, who talks about the Sea OrganEYEzation, kind of hot, huh?  Happiness and freedom are a good look on him!  See also, Tom DeVocht.

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1 hour ago, Meadow said:

I think I'm actually blushing.  So it's not just me who finds Mike Rindah, who talks about the Sea OrganEYEzation, kind of hot, huh?  Happiness and freedom are a good look on him!  See also, Tom DeVocht.

I'm warming up to him but at first not so much.

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On 1/8/2017 at 10:44 AM, wings707 said:

 

ETA.  I believe DM does not tell Tom everything that goes on thus his response.  I am not defending Tom in anyway.  It was a thought I have had.  He is in a gilded cage and the cash cow who can never know anything that may be perceived as horrific, like the hole or facility that imprisons people in So Cal.  If Tom would ever become disillusioned it would be the end of COS.  Love to hear if others have thought of this.  

Hmmm that's an interesting perspective. It makes sense. Not only is he the cash cow, but he brings a lot of awareness to Scientology in addition to being held up as a shining example of what it can do for you. 

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19 minutes ago, bubbls said:

Hmmm that's an interesting perspective. It makes sense. Not only is he the cash cow, but he brings a lot of awareness to Scientology in addition to being held up as a shining example of what it can do for you. 

Yes, that is implied in my cash cow statement.  He is the bomb.  

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Loved Leah snide at Dan Harris' reporting on 20/20 (And I like Dan Harris, but come on...it was a total fluff piece):

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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:08 AM, green said:

He can't.  She isn't a Scientologist.  Just the group's lawyer and apparently she played a large part in getting them tax exemption from the IRS way back in the day.    She was just a practicing lawyer living in Clearwater.  Remember in an early episode when Mike Rinder mentioned he was the one that actually went out and hired her back in the day.  That got a good chuckle out of Leah as I recall.

But after her poor performance tonight she better look for a new profession herself.  What weird answers she kept giving while blinking at 90 mph.

And the taped testimonials they kept giving.  Some of those people were speaking in dead, monotone voices looking totally uncomfortable.  Others were way over the top trying to look like the most ultra cheerful and happy people on the planet.  There didn't seem to be a natural human feel about any of them.  Sad.

Also says something that the group can't educate anyone enough to get into college let alone law school so they could produce their own in house lawyer. Of course if they educated their own they would probably break free and turn around and sue the heck out of the group.

A little OT:  I have a hard time with the lawyer's name.  I'm sure it is a legit name but I always misread it as YinYang.  Then I apologize to all Taoists for making such a connection.

Finally, Leah was really on and at the top of her game in those interviews.  The cross-cut editing contrast between her and The Lady of a Million Blinks was something else.  So now her plan is to go after their IRS status.  Excellent, excellent.

I couldn't watch her after a bit.  If she came on, I went and did something where I could listen, but didn't have to look. She gave me a headache.  I didn't blink at her name.  There's a famous beer company not too far from me.  Has a few extra letters, but pronounced the same way.

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:41 AM, hoosiermom said:

Where is everyone watching "going clear"?

I watched it on YouTube, but fair warning - it was in a tiny box with an obnoxious background that moved, and the frame rate was off - everyone sounded like they were sucking a bit of helium.  Still, it was free.

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:18 PM, Lizzing said:

I was disappointed by Rathbun's change of position.  His wife's suit against the anti squirrel attack seemed like it had the most legs because, IIRC from Going Clear, she was never a member of the "church" so she never voluntarily signed on for their doctrine/discipline, a defense CO$ could use under the 1st Amendment on ex members.  (I'm not sure if that defense would work on the level of harassment the anti squirrels did to the Rathbun's, but her not being a member ever removed that obstacle.)

My guess is that they either paid him off to shut up, or he just couldn't take it anymore.  I could go either way.

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:18 PM, Bibliophile said:

Was is just me, or did it look like Mike Rinder's son had make up under his right eye (possibly covering a black eye from a Miscavige beat down)?

It did, and his daughter's face was oddly shaped.  Not sure if that's normal for her - it reminded me of a few people I know who had various health problems and were taking heavy-duty rounds of steroids.

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 6:35 PM, Glade said:

Scientology doesn't believe in paying people; their workers are lucky to get 50$ a week for putting in over a hundred hours of hard labor, so it makes sense they'd be pissed at the very idea of those "freeloading, lazy alcoholic pedophiles Leah Remini and Mike Rinder" getting adequate pay for their work on television without even paying COS member taxes of 85%. 

I either read or heard somewhere that they like to "reward" workers with large bonuses - like $35,000.....all of which they are expected to "donate" back.

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:21 AM, Lisa418722 said:

I send a message to Atlanta's ABC station asking if they were going to re-run the episode and I have heard nothing!  I wanted to watch 20/20.  So far it isn't on Demand either.  I'll try the ABC site.

If you have a Roku, you can watch it on the ABC channel.  The date was listed on our cable's On Demand channel, but it wouldn't play.  Only the Menendez Brothers one would.

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:43 AM, wings707 said:

Physical abuse that seems to run rampant in the upper echelon of COS is a product of brainwashing, not that criminals join because of a tendency toward it. 

Wife beating is something members say of those who have defected and clearly lies because they all say it.  Seems there is a script on that.  

And how many ex COS couples have said they hardly saw each other?  I guess they had to schedule their beatings.

And count me in on thinking Mr. Rinder is Sexay........

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Paid off?  I'm not so sure.  I think he was finally gotten to....in terms of threatening him with something he cared enough to make him make an about face.  I just don't see money doing it.  

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Wiki Leaks has an entire section on that organization-- documents and forms and procedures, etc. It's endless, and a little scary to click on, due to the creepy titles of some of them.  Look at some or all of that stuff. There is no doubt that this is a cruel and sickening prison for mind control through harsh and constant degrading and inhumane solitary confinement for any "crime" they deem a crime, including not liking the color of your shirt or eyes for that matter, or they don't like what you ate for lunch.  No question the IRS should thoroughly investigate, but you can be sure that this was the first thing the "church" covered in their intricate, scandalous foundation. There is no way they would leave any holes in their system, so whatever it is, you can bet there is something that keeps the IRS out or they would have been all over that shit.  Yeah, and that blinker "lawyer" has got to go.  Is she really a lawyer? Has anyone even researched her credentials?

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I like how Muffins used the example of leaving her kids alone with the Catholic priest and trusting the church to handle that properly to bolster hear argument that co$ should be trusted to handle kids appropriately. Read the news in the last 20 years? Not the best example, lady. And how the hell would this woman know anything about what the church does on a daily basis when she isn't even a member.

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A week or so ago, I saw in TV Guide that there was going to be an Episode 8 called The Apostate, going into Leah's personal story. Then, it changed to the two 20/20 specials. What happened? I was looking forward to that episode. 

I love that the reveal of the lawyer meetings is that they are going after the tax-exempt status. Way to go right for the jugular. I thought it might just be the slander suit Leah brought against them, which will never go anywhere. I worry for Leah's safety, but am awed by her balls.

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3 hours ago, dwarmed said:

A week or so ago, I saw in TV Guide that there was going to be an Episode 8 called The Apostate, going into Leah's personal story. Then, it changed to the two 20/20 specials. What happened? I was looking forward to that episode. 

I love that the reveal of the lawyer meetings is that they are going after the tax-exempt status. Way to go right for the jugular. I thought it might just be the slander suit Leah brought against them, which will never go anywhere. I worry for Leah's safety, but am awed by her balls.

Going after their tax exempt status is probably a quick way to actually legitimize them as a religious organization, because if it is indeed stripped from them, a precedent could be set for stripping it from your 'mainstream' religions, too. That means that mainstream religions, specifically the American brand of Christianity with the mega churches, the prosperity gospel folks, and even the Vatican will have to find some soft-shoe way to defend Scientology's tax exemption, lest theirs is next on the list. 

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18 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Going after their tax exempt status is probably a quick way to actually legitimize them as a religious organization, because if it is indeed stripped from them, a precedent could be set for stripping it from your 'mainstream' religions, too. That means that mainstream religions, specifically the American brand of Christianity with the mega churches, the prosperity gospel folks, and even the Vatican will have to find some soft-shoe way to defend Scientology's tax exemption, lest theirs is next on the list. 

Exactly my thoughts. I don't see it happening in this political climate.

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It would be the most literal instance of "politics making for strange bedfellows:" the religious right would have to suddenly start defending scientology with the same 'religious liberty' laws that are currently used to let people deny services to transgender people and same sex couples. I kind of hope it happens, even if it fails, it'll just be interested to watch everyone twist themselves into knots looking out for themselves. 

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On 1/7/2017 at 10:42 AM, Ruprecht said:

I can think of two reasons:

  1. Mike Rinder is not available.
  2. CO$ is indefensible.

I think the other spokesman, the one who supplanted Rinder, Tommy Davidson, has also flown the coop.

Maybe they just haven't found someone they could send out to speak "for the 'Church' as well as Rinder and Davidson that didn't first come off as a renegade cast member of the "Walking Dead."

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6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Why wouldn't she have a valid case for slander?

I wouldn't say it's not valid, but would not end up in a positive result, given the co$ army of lawyers and the fact that it would be hard to prove any damages Leah has suffered based on the slander. Most cases against co$ go nowhere. Leah has said in interviews that she won't get a dime. I think the suit was more of a statement that she won't be intimidated by them.

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Just now, dwarmed said:

I wouldn't say it's not valid, but would not end up in a positive result, given the co$ army of lawyers and the fact that it would be hard to prove any damages Leah has suffered based on the slander. Most cases against co$ go nowhere. Leah has said in interviews that she won't get a dime. I think the suit was more of a statement that she won't be intimidated by them.

I think the show is a better statement to that end, and it EARNS money rather than costs money :). 

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37 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

New story just today regarding a 16 yr old girl forced to work for a year on the ship, because she didn't please her older husband.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4102600/Cruise-partied-Scientology-ship-girl-cleaned-sewage.html

Good article. No, that's not the right word. Horrible to read about but great that it's one more story of this crap fest cult to get out. The following about DM make me cackle like an old hen. What an inspiring leader. Wait, I need to put that in quotes. "Inspiring" "Leader" 

‘His room had to be perfect, and only ever used by him: COB’s room. They had hot water enemas in the shower every day, one for him, one for his wife Shelly.

'He had his own maid, Georgia, and I always wondered if she had to administer the enemas. He was obsessed with stuff like that.

‘There had to be no smell in the room, no dust, no light, his window had to have special blackout shades. He’d have make-up on, then he’d come in after ranting and raving at some of his executives, and he’d scream: “Put my make-up on”, after beads of sweats would be running down his face, spoiling the mascara.

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Quote

There's a famous beer company not too far from me.  Has a few extra letters, but pronounced the same way.

I'm near you, just outside of Pgh.

 

You will all have to pay me exorbitant training fees to be part of the Mike Rinder fan club. I am the official COB. Every time you move up to level 8, I will find new things for you to learn about him and you will have to pay to be trained again and learn more. Welcome aboard.

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12 hours ago, dwarmed said:

A week or so ago, I saw in TV Guide that there was going to be an Episode 8 called The Apostate, going into Leah's personal story. Then, it changed to the two 20/20 specials. What happened? I was looking forward to that episode. ...

Answered it in another thread.  It was Leah's choice and nothing conspiratorial about it.  She just thought the episode didn't come out that well production-wise or was too boring or something like that.  Like I said in the other thread, the second 20/20 (the one on 11PM to midnight EST) was from the year 2014 was a Leah bio which was what The Apostate was suppose to be so maybe she thought that was better than the one she had done for this series?

Anyway that one was totally new to me.  I almost missed it too because I didn't re-watch the 10 PM one since I had already seen it before just a few couple of weeks ago.  Accidentally channel-surfed into this second one just when it was beginning.  Wish they promoted this second one instead since it was new to the A&E/Leah series and thus to probably a lot of us because who watches 20/20 normally anyway.  And yes it is an old 20/20 but I consider it part of this series now and it was very very good.

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3 hours ago, Brattinella said:

New story just today regarding a 16 yr old girl forced to work for a year on the ship, because she didn't please her older husband.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4102600/Cruise-partied-Scientology-ship-girl-cleaned-sewage.html

Over in the book thread I referred to reading the Aussie version of Fair Game, and still only halfway through.  DM hasn't appeared yet.

LRH was into the child abuse thing decades ago.  Floating around aimlessly on The Scotman (named misspelled on registry) or Apollo gave him free reign over his victims.  There was a closet on deck that contained the anchor.  LRH would lock people (including children) in there for a perceived transgression.  One was a 10-year-old kept in there for 2 days.  Another fun sport of his was throwing people overboard - even those who couldn't swim.

I've read so much CO$ stuff over the years a lot of it's repeated.  But the Aussie book is really raw in its coverage.  You can't read it without wondering how these guys have gotten away with this for 50 years without criminal prosecution - oh, wait!  LRH's wife Mary Sue went to The Big House over the U.S. government infiltration.  Yep, big brave war hero LRH let his wife take the fall so he could go on abusing human beings. 

Sick.

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:08 AM, trow125 said:

The reason Mike calls Monique Yingling "Muffins" is because on the earlier 20/20 (the one promoting Ron Miscavige's book), she brought a basket of muffins and breads "as edible proof" of how great the food is at Scientology's Gold Base. She also called it "a worker's paradise." You can see for yourself on YouTube just after the 17-minute mark.

Hahaha I love it!!!!  My for Mike Rinder grows because that is nickname is perfect!

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Leah cancelling that episode is a good sign that she is working hard at getting the stories of abuse and horror out.   Since it was slated to be about her experience it wasn't relevant to that point.    Her book is an interesting and fast read.  Her story is not as horrific as most and rich with some celeb details  She doesn't want to open herself up to criticism that she had an easier experience than the stories thus far.  My guess. 

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On 1/11/2017 at 3:01 PM, funky-rat said:

I either read or heard somewhere that they like to "reward" workers with large bonuses - like $35,000.....all of which they are expected to "donate" back.

So the story I heard on the Surviving Scientology podcast was that there is one division (I don't remember the acronym, but they are essentially the fundraisers that put the squeeze on members to donate) that receives significant  (for CO$) salaries and bonuses.

This group decided one year to purchase DM the BMW he wanted for his birthday, which the organization couldn't purchase because the price tag could have triggered a charge of inurement ( inurement prohibition forbids the use of the income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly or indirectly unduly benefit an individual or other person that has a close relationship with the organization or is able to exercise significant control over the organization). Instead, the head of this division gave each employee a large ($10-15,000) bonus, then told the employees to immediately donate the bonus for DM's gift. The gift money was collected and then used to purchase a car presented at one of the big yearly events. 

So while they on paper get "real" money, in practice, it seems like they may be taking home something closer to $5-10,000 per year vs. other SeaOrg members who make $500 per year. However, with the exception of buying clothes (they are the only SeaOrg unit that doesn't wear uniforms), they are expected to plow that money back into the organization.

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My take is that it's better to focus on the NON-celebrity stories in Scientology, because that's the experience shared by the vast, vast majority of the adherents. No one is over their house folding clothes for them. Anyone of means can hire an independent security team to shoo away those creepos who picket a private citizen's house, anyone who can match funds with Scientology's legal efforts to delegitamize its critics, those aren't the people who will struggle most with the subject matter Remini wants to expose. Anyone with a platform to publicize these sorts of bully tactics and stuff like that, Scientology will not provoke in the same way.

Her particular story won't make any sense in that context, I think. She doesn't have the same experience as the workaday Sea Org member, who doesn't get lackies assigned to them. It's the people who have very, very limited options once they decide they no longer want to be involved that she's trying to highlight, because those are the people who need help fighting for their right to pursue happiness, their right to religious freedom. It's unconscionable that this sort of stuff is allowed to happen in this country. Even if the total number of Scientologists is small, every individual's constitutional right requires defending, that principle can't be a numbers game (i.e. there's only 500 people who really want to get out, and the DOJ doesn't see that as a big enough number). If it's 1, it's enough to focus the full weight of the federal government on the effort. 

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1 minute ago, Rlb8031 said:

...the price tag could have triggered a charge of inurement ( inurement prohibition forbids the use of the income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly or indirectly unduly benefit an individual or other person that has a close relationship with the organization or is able to exercise significant control over the organization). Instead, the head of this division gave each employee a large ($10-15,000) bonus, then told the employees to immediately donate the bonus for DM's gift. The gift money was collected and then used to purchase a car presented at one of the big yearly events. 

It's the same way that pastors of mega churches end up with "Pastoral Centers" and "Pastoral Planes." All on the backs of their congregants, all of it tax free. 

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I am sure DM has amassed a fortune from COS.  He would have to have a trusted lawyer to hide the fraud, so when he disappears, so will the will his highly paid lawyer!  I doubt it is Muffins but I could be wrong.    

Edited by wings707.
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wings, I've gotten to the DM section of the Aussie book and it's no-holds-barred...DM is a raving psychotic and sadist, and has been from Day One.

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3 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

wings, I've gotten to the DM section of the Aussie book and it's no-holds-barred...DM is a raving psychotic and sadist, and has been from Day One.

Excellent and love this!  No surprise but I want to know more.  

I will have to buy the book.  For the audio membership on amazon it is $14. 95 a month and I won't use it enough.  Back when I was driving more, I would get audio books from the library and listen on CD in my car and laptop so it was worth it.  There was not a stellar choice back then either.     

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If Leah's husband left his wife for her, I wonder how she was then viewed in terms of their Ethics?

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2 hours ago, Bluedog100 said:

If Leah's husband left his wife for her, I wonder how she was then viewed in terms of their Ethics?

Co$ probably loved it -- More classes!  More auditing!

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On 1/26/2017 at 11:28 AM, Rlb8031 said:

So the story I heard on the Surviving Scientology podcast was that there is one division (I don't remember the acronym, but they are essentially the fundraisers that put the squeeze on members to donate) that receives significant  (for CO$) salaries and bonuses.

This group decided one year to purchase DM the BMW he wanted for his birthday, which the organization couldn't purchase because the price tag could have triggered a charge of inurement ( inurement prohibition forbids the use of the income or assets of a tax-exempt organization to directly or indirectly unduly benefit an individual or other person that has a close relationship with the organization or is able to exercise significant control over the organization). Instead, the head of this division gave each employee a large ($10-15,000) bonus, then told the employees to immediately donate the bonus for DM's gift. The gift money was collected and then used to purchase a car presented at one of the big yearly events. 

So while they on paper get "real" money, in practice, it seems like they may be taking home something closer to $5-10,000 per year vs. other SeaOrg members who make $500 per year. However, with the exception of buying clothes (they are the only SeaOrg unit that doesn't wear uniforms), they are expected to plow that money back into the organization.

Isn't that money laundering? 

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5 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Co$ probably loved it -- More classes!  More auditing!

That is exactly what happened!  I read her book and her husband and now ex wife would go to Scientology "marriage counseling" together all while Leah was being autited for her transgression.  She would offer see them walking out of the Celebrity Center.

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On 1/28/2017 at 8:36 PM, druzy said:

Isn't that money laundering? 

I don't know. It sure looks like it, but I couldn't hazard a guess why the IRS wouldn't go after them if that was the case.

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On 1/29/2017 at 1:49 AM, checkmeboo said:

That is exactly what happened!  I read her book and her husband and now ex wife would go to Scientology "marriage counseling" together all while Leah was being autited for her transgression.  She would offer see them walking out of the Celebrity Center.

I wonder what they were doing at the Celeb Center when neither of that couple were celebrities?

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On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 0:48 PM, dwarmed said:

I wouldn't say it's not valid, but would not end up in a positive result, given the co$ army of lawyers and the fact that it would be hard to prove any damages Leah has suffered based on the slander. Most cases against co$ go nowhere. Leah has said in interviews that she won't get a dime. I think the suit was more of a statement that she won't be intimidated by them.

Besides all of the money the Co$ has to throw at lawyers, Leah has given them decades of dirt on herself through auditing and knowledge reports. As long as they stay away from their more outrageous insults like "Leah is a Nazi child molesting pig fucker", then everything they've said about her is a reasonable interpretation of the mountains of info she's given them. Truth is always a defense to slander. As a faithful adherent of Scientology, she agreed that everything she talked about during auditing is true.

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