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S01.E04: A Leader Emerges 2016.12.20

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David Miscavige's leadership is examined, featuring insight from Miscavige's father and other former church members.

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Ah, Napoleon Complex, there you are. I noticed this looking at photographs of Miscavige -- he wears colored contacts?

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Going to look for it On Demand.

A&E seems to be giving this show a lot of support with all the extra eps.

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When will OUR government step in to protect OUR citizens from domestic threats and abuse of its members ant society at large from these CULTS!

How many tragedies and atrocities will it take?

Edited by mbaywife123. Reason: Spelling
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It would delight many people, myself included, to learn Micavich had been beaten within an inch of his life requiring many plastic surgeries to re build his face.  

5 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I am very glad that A&E are showing this.  This kind of abuse and deception needs to be exposed. 

On a shallow note, I looked up David Miscavige height.  5'1.

He needs to saw 8 inches off the height of that podium.  The side shot in that video is hysterical! I am shocked he did not have one built to scale for himself.

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Wow. How did they find out that Leah was going to interview Ron? Leah passed that off with, "they are just playing games."  Maybe but that is not the point. HOW did they know. That is creepy.  It seems they around every corner for defectors.  

There have been some questionable deaths that look like murder but never investigated. Shelly Micavich's mother is one that stands out. 

Ortega estimates there are 10,000 scientologists left, down from previous guess of 25,000. 

Thought it relevant here to know how  small this group really is. 

Edited by wings707.
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48 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I am very glad that A&E are showing this.  This kind of abuse and deception needs to be exposed. 

On a shallow note, I looked up David Miscavige height.  5'1.

I hope A&E keeps going with this series beyond this season to keep shining a light on the darkness.

I see from the promos for future programming that they are also going to be doing a tell all about the KKK!

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2 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

Thank You A&E for having the balls to air all of this and for being  legally smart to show the CO$ links  and having Leah read their responses about the people appearing so that they can't claim you as being one sided bigots against the "church".

I really agree.  At first all the disclaimers really bothered me.  But it seems like A&E is actually adding segments, like the AME episode, and stands behind it.

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12 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I really agree.  At first all the disclaimers really bothered me.  But it seems like A&E is actually adding segments, like the AME episode, and stands behind it.

I think the disclaimers emphasize what a bunch of paranoid nuts the Clams are.  

Not to mention evil, hate-propelled punks.

Con-man that LRH was, it seems like when Lil Davy put himself in the driver's (booster) seat, CO$ took a really nasty turn.

I felt this ep really conveyed the enormity of the toll this cult takes on members' lives.  I'm really liking Mike Rinder more and more as the series continues.

Financial Ponzi schemes (like Bernie Mader) are awful enough, but this bunch exploits people's minds as well as their bank accounts.  I'd really like to see Macho Man Davy doing time in the chokey where he could channel his pugilistic skills toward other inmates in the exercise yard.

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My favorite picture of the Mini-Fuhrer and Where's Shelly.  Doesn't he look like a toddler on his mother's knee?

 

Davy&Shelly.jpg

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I agree on Rinder.  At first I found him too angry, but now I see it's intensity.

This show has gone farther and had more courage than even Going Clear.  A where's Shelly segment, and a Lisa McPherson mention.  Going Clear, the documentary, had a large number of attorneys vet all of the material.  They didn't feel Shelly or Lisa could be handled without lawsuits.

I like Tom DeVocht, and he told a very interesting story in Going Clear.  He said that every evening, Miscavige would call for Tom Cruise's auditing notes, and then drink scotch while he read them aloud to the room, laughing and mocking Cruise.

Hearing Miscavige pronounce military time, is like hearing Trump read bible verse.  Both are dealing in things they have no idea about, and sound totally fake when they try to pass as legitimate.

It's shocking that CO$ didn't realize LRH died.  People understood the humanity of the pope, and realized he died because his body failed him.  I'm amazed that Leah and Mike don't blush when they explain some of this mumbo jumbo pseudo-science dreck.

What a tiny rage-monster our Napolean complex little Davey has.  As the first guy told the story of Miscavige leaping up on the table to attack him, all I could think of was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2-XbiM0RCM

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3 hours ago, wings707 said:

Wow. How did they find out that Leah was going to interview Ron? Leah passed that off with, "they are just playing games."  Maybe but that is not the point. HOW did they know. That is creepy.  It seems they around every corner for defectors.  

Miscavige had people following his father for a time.  That's when the "if he dies, he dies" incident occurred.  Also, the "church" bugged Nicole Kidman's phone, per Tom Cruise's request, so they have no problem doing this type of thing.  Remember they dig through people's garbage, too, plus they hire spies.

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20 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

My favorite picture of the Mini-Fuhrer and Where's Shelly.  Doesn't he look like a toddler on his mother's knee?

 

Davy&Shelly.jpg

So the leader of this insane cult turns out to be a diminutive sociopath who couldn't even make it through high school. The mind reels. 

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4 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

Thank You A&E for having the balls to air all of this and for being  legally smart to show the CO$ links  and having Leah read their responses about the people appearing so that they can't claim you as being one sided bigots against the "church".

Those letters from CO$ sound like they were written by a bunch of fifteen year old mean girls! Most of them indicate "we disagree with many of so and so's claims.."

Oh, so you agree with some of them! Interesting. 

Edited by Jade Foxx.
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8 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I like Tom DeVocht, and he told a very interesting story in Going Clear.  He said that every evening, Miscavige would call for Tom Cruise's auditing notes, and then drink scotch while he read them aloud to the room, laughing and mocking Cruise.

What a tiny rage-monster our Napolean complex little Davey has.  As the first guy told the story of Miscavige leaping up on the table to attack him, all I could think of was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2-XbiM0RCM

Typical of the Mini-Fuhrer to mock Cruise behind his back so he could feel his lifts were taller than Tommy's.

About the video - I love-love-love Peter Dinklage!  He doesn't seem to have any issues about his stature and neither do I.  Check out his portfolio and he's played roles that were not height specific.  (He also explained why he's vegetarian - "I like animals, all animals. I wouldn't hurt a cat or a dog - or a chicken or a cow. And I wouldn't ask someone else to hurt them for me. That's why I'm a vegetarian.")  Adore. Adore. Adore.

Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor, never let his height hold him back.  Charming, articulate, kind - everything you'd want in a friend.

Then we have Xenu's Tiny Terrors.  Sigh.

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Drinking Scotch and laughing as he read Cruise's auditing notes, wow.  

How long after the death of LRH were they told and by whom?  I did not know this.  I have not read Going Clear yet.  I have Jenna and Ron's books in line next.  

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I say this every episode, but it's true - I wish they were longer than just an hour.  I know they only have so much time to tell all these stories, but they barely, barely scratched the surface of everything I wanted to know about Miscaviage and how he came to power.  I guess I really need to get his dad's book.

And that poor guy, Tom,  broke my heart.  He was clearly so devastated by the families that were destroyed and by the part he played in it.  It's disgusting that the church tries to discredit these people and ruin them when they are so clearly telling the truth.

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I may have missed this but who and where is David Miscaviage'  mother?  It seemed from the way they talked that Ron's wife Becky is not his mom. 

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This show continues to be the most compelling program currently on television.

Go, Leah and Mike. It takes an extraordinary person to admit that they were so wrong, much less trying to make things right in such a public way.

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I read that article about Ron linked in the recap and it says Ron still believes in Scientology. It's just the way his son is running the church that he disagrees with. I wonder about some of the others.

I think it's funny the church keeps issuing these statements denying all the allegations and trying to discredit everyone who is appearing on this show. Don't they know it only makes them look worse? Everyone already thinks this is a crazy cult, so they can issue formal denials 'til the cows come home, they have no credibility at this point.

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13 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I am very glad that A&E are showing this.  This kind of abuse and deception needs to be exposed. 

On a shallow note, I looked up David Miscavige height.  5'1.

No wonder Cruise loves him.  Compared to him, Cruise is Kareem Abdul-Jabar.  

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Can you please review Leah's and Mike's AMA special they did on the 19th. I'm watching it now and I am flabbergasted by what I am seeing and hearing. The church has done some CRAZY things to silence people.

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I haven't finished watching this week's episode, but I need to be a bit shallow for a moment.  Leah look GORGEOUS in the navy dress she was wearing!! 

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4 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

I haven't finished watching this week's episode, but I need to be a bit shallow for a moment.  Leah look GORGEOUS in the navy dress she was wearing!! 

Okay, Juliet, since you started it -- I agree she looked gorgeous, however, she's gotta cut those nails!  What's up with that?

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15 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

When will OUR government step in to protect OUR citizens from domestic threats and abuse of its members ant society at large from these CULTS!

How many tragedies and atrocities will it take?

I totally agree with this.  It makes me remember the People's Temple at Jonestown and what happened there in 1978, over 900 people committed mass suicide/or were murdered.  That happened in Guyana, a foreign country.  And I remember after it happened, the questions people asked, one of them was how did all of these people just up and leave the country?  Did they need passports or Visas?  In 1983, I went to Senegal and I needed a passport and a Visa to get into Gambia, so how did Jim Jones get all these people passports and Visas?  Maybe the government in Guyana didn't mind since they were US citizens living there, but what's always boggled my mind is that the US government didn't seem to give a shit either, maybe it was because most of the people who went to Guyana were black and poor, I don't know.

I think that when an organization has money, there's nothing they can't do.  I think that as long as this group has money, they can do whatever.  

I would not be a bit surprised if Miscavige were to disappear mysteriously, as I'm sure that some people within the church might see HIM as a liability, i.e. Scientology wouldn't be under all this scrutiny if it weren't for him.

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7 minutes ago, Maizie131 said:

Okay, Juliet, since you started it -- I agree she looked gorgeous, however, she's gotta cut those nails!  What's up with that?

I did the grown-out LONG nails once, no fakes for me.  It is kind of addictive, watching them grow and wondering how long they will get.  They were beautiful and perfect and I kept them that way for a long time, but after a couple of them broke, I had to cut them all off, and never did it again.  And another thing; it was very hard to WIPE with nails like that!

Though it might be cool to see Leah rake lil-boy Davey with those nails...

Edited by Brattinella.
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7 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

 

I would not be a bit surprised if Miscavige were to disappear mysteriously, as I'm sure that some people within the church might see HIM as a liability, i.e. Scientology wouldn't be under all this scrutiny if it weren't for him.

This had not occurred to me but this sounds entirely possible!  No, this is a given,  if the pressure becomes too great.  I can see him coming totally unglued and murder becoming the only option. 

I am getting excited thinking about it!   Delicious.  He can then join Shelly who I think is possibly dead.  

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18 minutes ago, wings707 said:

This had not occurred to me but this sounds entirely possible!  No, this is a given,  if the pressure becomes too great.  I can see him coming totally unglued and murder becoming the only option. 

I am getting excited thinking about it!   Delicious.  He can then join Shelly who I think is possibly dead.  

According to Tony Ortega's website a woman who lives near the Scientology compound in the mountains in California saw her twice- once in 2015 and again more recently in April 2016- basically she looked frail and that she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol and was being walked around by 2 younger gentlemen. She realized it was Shelly after she had watched Leah's 20/20 Special. 

http://tonyortega.org/2016/12/15/claim-frail-looking-shelly-miscavige-spotted-near-scientology-compound-in-california/

Edited by SiobhanJW.
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1 hour ago, juliet73 said:

I haven't finished watching this week's episode, but I need to be a bit shallow for a moment.  Leah look GORGEOUS in the navy dress she was wearing!! 

Oh good, because I was loving the way she pronounced Jeff Hawkins' last name with her full-on Brooklyn accent ("Huaww-kins") and I thought, "concentrate on what she's saying, not on how she's saying it!"

Edited by laurakaye.
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12 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Miscavige had people following his father for a time.  That's when the "if he dies, he dies" incident occurred.  Also, the "church" bugged Nicole Kidman's phone, per Tom Cruise's request, so they have no problem doing this type of thing.  Remember they dig through people's garbage, too, plus they hire spies.

Yes.  He has been out a long time now.  Having him physically followed is archaic with the technology available at this point.  If I were a defector I would want to know exactly how, especially if  I had been speaking on media sources.  They can wreak havoc with you, all from their home and an IT guy handy.

Miscavich knows the numbers are shrinking, he may feel the need to go on the offensive in a bigger way.  Leah stresses the need for the government to step in.   Or is he so arrogant that the letters FBI have no impact on him? 

Edited by wings707.
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2 hours ago, SiobhanJW said:

According to Tony Ortega's website a woman who lives near the Scientology compound in the mountains in California saw her twice- once in 2015 and again more recently in April 2016- basically she looked frail and that she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol and was being walked around by 2 younger gentlemen. She realized it was Shelly after she had watched Leah's 20/20 Special. 

http://tonyortega.org/2016/12/15/claim-frail-looking-shelly-miscavige-spotted-near-scientology-compound-in-california/

Thank you!  She is in the process of being murdered, it seems.  I actually assumed this was or would be the method.   Coroner report- drug overdose. 

I have gotten zip done today. I am down the rabbit hole with @FairyDusted. I cannot get enough.  

Edited by wings707.
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The rise of the Internet freaked them out. They made all the members install Net Nanny software - not that they told them that's what it was. It was a standard version with a custom list, which of course was reverse-engineered pretty quickly http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/wordlist.html

They also started up a campaign to flood the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup with spam, but it wasn't exactly a *distributed* DOS - every night a few loyal(*) members would sign up for a handful of free accounts and use those accounts to post the "sporge" (forged spam; it used the handles of real posters). But it was a bad forgery; they didn't spoof the IPs so each night a few west coast night owls (including yours truly :) ) and New Zealand early risers would post an updated killfile list.

(*) One of the sporgers got curious about just what it was she was attacking and next thing you know she was a critic too.

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I think that when an organization has money, there's nothing they can't do.  I think that as long as this group has money, they can do whatever. 

I think it has more to do with the fact that they hide behind the special classification of "religion" which makes government and law enforcement reticent to step in. Until somebody is actually able to call the police and say "Help, this church is holding me hostage in a double-wide trailer" there's not a lot law enforcement can do. You can't step in and "save" people from belonging to a "church" they willingly join.

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The rise of the Internet freaked them out.

Yeah, and ultimately it's what's going to bring them down once and for all. The type of thing they were able to get away with for the last couple of decades in the 20th century won't fly now because there's way too much information out there for them to control. 

They're definitely losing clout since shows like this one and HBO's "Going Clear" are making their way onto the airwaves. Those are things they would have been able to squash in their heyday of power.

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As others have stated, I fell down the rabbit hole of CO$ last night.  I thought I knew everything there was to know, but was surprised by a couple of things.  First, I knew Tom DeVocht escaped.  What I didn't know was he actually scaled that spike/barbed wire fence Ron mentioned at the hole.  Dude really wanted out.  The second is incredibly fascinating.  Shelly's mom died under very shady circumstances.  She was shot three times in the chest and one time in the head with a rifle, and it was documented as suicide.  How is that possible?  I read that on The Village Voice, by Tony Ortega.  I'm terrible at linking, but here goes - http://www.villagevoice.com/news/the-strange-death-of-flo-barnett-mother-in-law-to-scientology-leader-david-miscavige-6667918

4 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I may have missed this but who and where is David Miscaviage'  mother?  It seemed from the way they talked that Ron's wife Becky is not his mom. 

After a cursory search - I have no idea.  Maybe she's in hiding.  That's where I would be if I had spawned this creature.

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I totally agree with this.  It makes me remember the People's Temple at Jonestown and what happened there in 1978, over 900 people committed mass suicide/or were murdered.  That happened in Guyana, a foreign country.  And I remember after it happened, the questions people asked, one of them was how did all of these people just up and leave the country?  Did they need passports or Visas?  In 1983, I went to Senegal and I needed a passport and a Visa to get into Gambia, so how did Jim Jones get all these people passports and Visas?  Maybe the government in Guyana didn't mind since they were US citizens living there, but what's always boggled my mind is that the US government didn't seem to give a shit either, maybe it was because most of the people who went to Guyana were black and poor, I don't know.

I think that when an organization has money, there's nothing they can't do.  I think that as long as this group has money, they can do whatever.  

I would not be a bit surprised if Miscavige were to disappear mysteriously, as I'm sure that some people within the church might see HIM as a liability, i.e. Scientology wouldn't be under all this scrutiny if it weren't for him.

What's interesting is the People's Temple left the U.S., because of governmental investigation of their abuse.  Where's the government now?  There was even a US senator interested enough in investigating the abuse in Guyana, and then died on the tarmac of that country.  Again, where are the Leo Ryan's of today?

22 minutes ago, Jamoche said:

The rise of the Internet freaked them out. They made all the members install Net Nanny software - not that they told them that's what it was. It was a standard version with a custom list, which of course was reverse-engineered pretty quickly http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/wordlist.html

They also started up a campaign to flood the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup with spam, but it wasn't exactly a *distributed* DOS - every night a few loyal(*) members would sign up for a handful of free accounts and use those accounts to post the "sporge" (forged spam; it used the handles of real posters). But it was a bad forgery; they didn't spoof the IPs so each night a few west coast night owls (including yours truly :) ) and New Zealand early risers would post an updated killfile list.

(*) One of the sporgers got curious about just what it was she was attacking and next thing you know she was a critic too.

I believe they have a team that focuses only on attacking internet critics.  The only gossip site I follow, Celebitchy, had a flood of brand new posters defending Tom Cruise during the Katie Holmes attack.  They were obviously CO$ trolls, and the site wasn't shy about saying so.  There are also the people who make sure that when you google an escapee, Leah for example, you will see (for example) "Leah Remini is a (insert horrific things here)".  That takes a lot of time and energy, and seems to be one of the Sea Org assignments.

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3 hours ago, aamankwah said:

Can you please review Leah's and Mike's AMA special they did on the 19th. I'm watching it now and I am flabbergasted by what I am seeing and hearing. The church has done some CRAZY things to silence people.

I saw this last night and wasn't sure if I was watching the episode or something different. I LOL'd when Leah laughed at the journalist (Patricia?) saying she couldn't discuss the details of her settlement, basically indicating that she got paid.

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Oh okay....ridded myself of the quote.

I think when Miscavage realizes the walls are closing in on him, probably in the form of RICO charges by the government, he'll pack up a lot of loose cash and float away on one of the Sea Org vessels, like Hubbard did when he was being chased by the authorities.  Trusted minions will keep cash flowing to him - maybe - but he'll need to turn the reins over to someone else.  And at some point, Cruise will find himself brought to task for not speaking out about the abuses.  As will Travolta, who certainly heard about them and ignored them.  (I hope the series brings up Spanky Taylor and the abominable way she was treated).  

If there's even a "church" by that time.  If enrollments are down as low as indicated, the cash river may soon be reduced to rainwater spin off.  It appears that NEXT week, we're going to find out their methods for making them seem "bigger" than they are.  I'm thinking hired crowds for those big GALAS of theirs.  

Hee.  I can see it now - Dave and Tom, sailing off into the sunset...

Edited by Carolina Girl.
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57 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think it has more to do with the fact that they hide behind the special classification of "religion" which makes government and law enforcement reticent to step in. Until somebody is actually able to call the police and say "Help, this church is holding me hostage in a double-wide trailer" there's not a lot law enforcement can do. You can't step in and "save" people from belonging to a "church" they willingly join.

I agree that it's harder to go after what is considered a religion, but the wealth of said religion makes a difference too.  

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Another fascinating episode.  I don't know how I missed Jeff Hawkins' book, but will search it out.

Re Shelly's mom, there's been a long-running comment from CO$ critics that SPs who get too mouthy should watch out before they commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head 3 times with a shotgun.

What does it say about LRH that, as a self-proclaimed prophet who had the answer to the mysteries of the universe, he hand-picked a teenage dropout as his chief factotum and heir apparent?

I'm a nonviolent person, but if Davy ever laid a hand on me he'd get an LL Bean clog right in the crotch.

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29 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Hee.  I can see it now - Dave and Tom, sailing off into the sunset...

Midgets on a boat.

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Actually there was another couple that LRH had tapped as the possible next leaders, but it wasn't entirely clear and Miscavige basically pulled a coup to take power.  

Re: Shelley Miscavige's mom. I never heard about her! I am going to have to research that some more.  I think that Shelley is definitely being held against her will somewhere or at least somewhat against her will, but I also think she was in up to her eyebrows with fishy stuff before she lost favor.  I had a lot of sympathy for her until reading Jenna's book and hearing how Aunt Shelley treated her.  I still think she needs to be found and assessed though.  

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39 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Another fascinating episode.  I don't know how I missed Jeff Hawkins' book, but will search it out.

Re Shelly's mom, there's been a long-running comment from CO$ critics that SPs who get too mouthy should watch out before they commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head 3 times with a shotgun.

What does it say about LRH that, as a self-proclaimed prophet who had the answer to the mysteries of the universe, he hand-picked a teenage dropout as his chief factotum and heir apparent?

I'm a nonviolent person, but if Davy ever laid a hand on me he'd get an LL Bean clog right in the crotch.

Actually, Hubbard did NOT pick Miscavage.  If the facts as stated in "Going Clear" are correct, he picked a husband and wife team, Pat and Annie Broeker, who were with him at the end to carry on in his name.  In fact, he issued a Flag Order with a special designation - "Loyal Officers" - and they were the only ones who held that level.  Hubbard never even MENTIONED Miscavage.  When Hubbard died, Miscavage made the announcement and then his hand-picked henchmen proceeded to spy on and harass the Broekers.  Miscavage essentially staged a palace coup and the Broekers were, essentially "fair gamed."

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1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

It appears that NEXT week, we're going to find out their methods for making them seem "bigger" than they are.  I'm thinking hired crowds for those big GALAS of theirs.  

Also photoshop. Google finds lots of it :)

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I believe they have a team that focuses only on attacking internet critics.

They do, but back in the 90s when I was an active critic they weren't very good at it yet. They got awesomely trolled once by a critic who said he'd got access to a secret server with all the high-level stuff, and the IP address was 127.0.0.1. That's the address that always refers to the host computer, so of course if you're on the server with the high-level stuff you're going to find it :)

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My eyes are blurry from screen fatigue, because I have been on all day with only bathroom breaks. It is 4:53 and I haven't even eaten! LOL.  Dead serious. Off to make some eggs but I shall return! 

Cruise is looking more like LRH than I thought.  I don't know how to copy and paste on an iPad.  Been to busy to google that!  The lies and grandiosity of that man is legendary. Too bad he did not anticipate computers and google!  

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