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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

I found myself wondering who initially proposed the idea to kill off the ex-wife. I think a good argument could be made for either the husband or the mistress. I can't really decide which I think would have come up with the idea initially, because I think they both had very strong, but different, motivations to have her dead.

 

Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that it was the husband who came up with the plot. I think the mistress is evil in her own way, but that man was cold as ice and came off like a total sociopath. I think she was genuinely enamored with him and that when he found out that her ex-husband had already killed someone, he saw it as an opportunity and used her feelings for him to manipulate her into doing all the dirty work to pull off a plan that he came up with. I think he thought that even if she got caught, he'd still be safe because she would never turn on him (and she didn't). My belief is based on the fact that she still seems to hold out hope that they'll be together once they're out of jail, while he seems to have dropped that idea, and also the fact that the "hit" photo was of the ex-wife and one of the daughters. A man who is so apparently nonchalant about his child coming into contact with a hitman is not, to my mind, a man who is just going with the flow of his mistress' plot. That is a man who is brutally self-interested and willing to go to any length so that he comes out the "winner." 

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That part was so sad, where the daughter said she had changed her name over the fact that her father had included her picture in the hit package. If a man who earns that much money was ready to kill his ex-wife over the relatively small amount of alimony she was asking, I guess he wouldn't have minded eliminating his daughter before college tuition came up.

Sometimes it seems like the more money they have the more every penny means to them. These shows often have me quoting Marge Gunderson at the end of Fargo. "And all for a little bit of money."

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Steph J and Judy , it was about money.  He was greedy.  He did seem as if he did not care if his daughter was collateral damage.

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A young, pregnant woman is found dead in her bedroom. Investigators soon uncover secret lives and simmering feuds swirling around her murder.

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That guy was creepy!

My god the word waxed has never bothered me so much, lol. Between the cop saying "he was getting her waxed up" and every other mentioning the 20 yr old getting waxed. Arhhh! Make it stop!

I knew he did it. I did not need 2 hrs of this show.

I wish the reporter would have asked him or his lawyer, why he was still speaking to the student while he was in jail on trial for his wife's murder. And was suspected of having an affair with the young woman?

Yes, but you have to admit the best line of the show was when the cop said "My stuff would be out in the front yard if my wife found out I was waxing up a twenty-year-old!"  I spewed my wine on that one.  The thing that got to me the most was how entitled the husband & girlfriend were & her bitch face on the stand.  (Hope she's having a good time back in Lithuania!!)

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I am from Iowa, had not heard of this case.  Sad.  Sometimes two hours is too long for what was a pretty straight forward case.  Feel very sorry for the neighbor.  They were only married for seven months, that blows me away.

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I thought the same thing. I guess because Dateline is always the ratings leader on Friday nights we just have to deal with it, but this definitely should have been an hour, and so many 2 hour Datelines are like that lately.

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Seth really killed three people, his wife, her baby and the poor man next door.  Imagine having schizophrenia and living your life in fear that "they," are going to come for you -- and then one day five armed deputies come up the driveway for you.

 

Seth had nice parents, loving in-laws, friends and a pretty good job, and yet he was ready to commit murder, just for the sake of getting his hands on the office hottie.  These criminals are so incredibly dumb, Seth's 911 call was some of the worst acting I've heard and this series has had some doozies.

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So did he shower to get rid of gun residue? Because unless I was detracted by Twitter, I didn't hear them mention testing for it.

I'm always interested in the warning signs. If a person is capable of murdering his wife and unborn child, isn't he callous in other areas of his life? If they both were cheating, did they fight a lot or did no one know? At least the in-laws came around to reality though.

He seriously was so dumb though. I wish we knew more about the human brain to find a correlation between low I.Q. and lack of empathy.

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I wondered about the gun residue, too- agree must have been the shower.

He seemed to be sporting a little boy type haircut in court I'm assuming for sympathy. In the police videos, he had a buzz cut and had a much bigger build.

I think all these shows should now be titled " the husband / boyfriend did it"

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They never tested him for gun powder residue. That was part of the "shoddy investigation" defense.

It always cracks me up when the reporter reveals the shocking twist that it was the spouse, and then again when one or both of them were cheating. Isn't that 90% of these shows? Lol

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I don't know if I don't believe the husband and his mistress never had sex.

Saying that, I don't think he killed the wife for a life with this other woman. I think he wanted out but was afraid of letting everyone down. I know that sounds insane. This couple should never have married. They were together 7 years, at that point I think is when they should have moved on but, they felt obligated to get married IMO.

I was really hoping it wasn't the husband. Both families seemed like nice people.

I was pissed that the cops didn't take the neighbor seriously. Clearly there was damage to his garage/barn. If the jerk husband was instructing his pals to dump buckets of dog feces on his property, there was proof that someone was doing doing something.

Edited by imjagain.
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Yeah, I was discussing w/my dad what show I was watching and he made mention of it is always the husband or wife...too predictable.

 

I can't believe it took 3 trials to convict the husband, and to be honest I can't see how he is still in prison, I would think his lawyers could get him released by saying the first two trials the jury was hung, the third they convicted, who is to say the next two, three, four, or five his is found not guilty.

 

I will say the fact that the wife was having an affair of her own surprised me in this case.  I'm wondering if the young couple were fighting all the time, throwing each others affairs in the others face, and she perhaps said that she wasn't sure if the child was his or her lovers and that is what caused him to snap and kill her and the baby that he thought perhaps wasn't his.  The sad part to me was this wasn't just some young couple that just met and dated for a few months and then got married.  They actually knew and dated each other for years before getting married.  Just sad.

 

I'm going to be unpopular here, but that headstone, was just hideous.  I understand it was done out of love and such, but I guess i'm old-fashioned, a simple grave marker or tombstone is all that is needed, something non-gaudy.

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This one was far too simple of a case to be featured on Dateline, IMO.

 

I do wish we had heard more about the peanut butter sammich that was found out on the patio.

 

Any ideas?

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The sandwich had us laughing.  They wanted us to believe the guy next door came over to kill them and brought lunch?  Sure, he doesn't bring a gun but he brings a sandwich because it was a long walk. *shaking head*

 

They gave away a lot in the first couple minutes when they told us this took 3 trials and a big twist at the end.  I was expecting them to say the wife had been cheating too because there was nothing left to surprise us.

 

Every time a pregnant women is killed it always seems to be the hubby/boyfriend that wanted out.  He didn't want to just divorce her because he would still have to pay child support for 18 years.  I think he also didn't want to disappoint his in-laws.  His father-in-law was helping him get his dream job.  That wouldn't happen if he divorced his daughter.

 

That marriage would not have lasted even if she had not been killed.  They were so young to be married and already cheating.  He was 21 and she was 22 when they got married.  It does make it sound like they felt obligated to get married because it was the next step and their families and friends expected it.  His buddies all seemed to like her more than they liked him. 

 

It appears Seth set up the crazy man next door to be the suspect before he even killed his wife.  He had the cops believing the man was crazy and dangerous and had a shotgun by his side.  Then he kills his wife with a shotgun.  Duh.

Edited by LakeGal.
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I'm not sure if this is the information you man Taylorh2, but the DNA test proved the unborn baby girl was Seth's child.  It was called into doubt during the third trial that wife had told the other jailer she was having an affair with that she wasn't sure if the child was even Seths since she was having sex w/both men

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I'm wondering if the young couple were fighting all the time, throwing each others affairs in the others face, and she perhaps said that she wasn't sure if the child was his or her lovers and that is what caused him to snap and kill her and the baby that he thought perhaps wasn't his.

After it came out that she was having an affair, I was wondering if that was the real reason he killed her.  I don't think he killed her just because he wanted to be with the other woman.  

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I was pissed that the cops didn't take the neighbor seriously. Clearly there was damage to his garage/barn. If the jerk husband was instructing his pals to dump buckets of dog feces on his property, there was proof that someone was doing doing something.

 

THANK YOU...I second that.  "They're good people".  Come on!!  Once the police officer realized it was his daughter/son-in-law the "crazy neighbor" was complaining about, he should've sent a different, unrelated police officer to deal with it.  Can you imagine the police dismissing your complaint like that, defending the person you're complaining about without even listening to you?!

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THANK YOU...I second that.  "They're good people".  Come on!!  Once the police officer realized it was his daughter/son-in-law the "crazy neighbor" was complaining about, he should've sent a different, unrelated police officer to deal with it.  Can you imagine the police dismissing your complaint like that, defending the person you're complaining about without even listening to you?!

Agree, shoddy police work.  They were into their marriage 7 months and both cheating. They should not have gotten married.  I'm sorry but the dad did not look good and neither did the couple.  It was easy to blame the neighbor.

 

Again Dateline, just tell the story don't stretch it out.

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Cop to Keith Morrison:  "I'm pretty confident if I went to your house right now, I wouldn't find manuals on how to make exotic weapons."  Heh. You sure?

 

Also, I thought calling the episode "The Wire" was in bad taste.

 

I just want to note that I'm just copying the season and episode numbers in starting this topic.  I think it's wrong though, hasn't Dateline been on since like 1992?

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Cop to Keith Morrison:  "I'm pretty confident if I went to your house right now, I wouldn't find manuals on how to make exotic weapons."  Heh. You sure?

 

Like, for instance, "How to Make an Atlatl" ?   :-D

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I did laugh when they asked Keith about that crossbow.  But really...  with his job he probably does research on a lot of creepy ways to kill someone.  All of us here might have done the odd research after watching one of these shows.  If anyone checked our search history we could look suspicious too. 

 

He was another killer with that crazy wide eyed look.  It does seem interesting how many killers have that crazy eye look about them in photos.

 

I was disappointed in the original detectives on the case.  I was yelling at the TV to check and see which of these men had access to saws and workshops.  Why didn't they look closer at the wire?  So many things they should have looked closer at. 

 

We never did get an answer to the identity of the 2 semen samples found in the victim that night.  I would assume one was her supper guest who is now dead so was not tested for DNA. 

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I did laugh when they asked Keith about that crossbow. But really... with his job he probably does research on a lot of creepy ways to kill someone. All of us here might have done the odd research after watching one of these shows. If anyone checked our search history we could look suspicious too.

He was another killer with that crazy wide eyed look. It does seem interesting how many killers have that crazy eye look about them in photos.

I was disappointed in the original detectives on the case. I was yelling at the TV to check and see which of these men had access to saws and workshops. Why didn't they look closer at the wire? So many things they should have looked closer at.

We never did get an answer to the identity of the 2 semen samples found in the victim that night. I would assume one was her supper guest who is now dead so was not tested for DNA.

Yeah, I assumed that it was the dinner guest and she could have had sex with current boyfriend the night before.

I think the man convicted did it. I just wonder if his lawyers focused on the 2 semen samples? That would be reasonably doubt to some, especially if it was never explained.

Edited by imjagain.
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It made me happy to see Robert Shapiro lose this case, and even more because it was his last case.

 

I can't imagine what this guy felt like during those 35 years when he hadn't been caught. Must be a horrible feeling to always be wondering if they're going to come after you. But maybe he was too arrogant to think that way, and he didn't suffer much at all.

 

I really liked the detective who kept tearing up over this case. He just seemed like someone with a really big heart. I like thinking that someone like him was working as a homicide detective.

 

This was a good episode and a good case. I'm glad they finally put the guy away.

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I just want to note that I'm just copying the season and episode numbers in starting this topic.  I think it's wrong though, hasn't Dateline been on since like 1992?

 

Thanks for starting the episode thread, jenkait!  Dateline is a little weird with its seasons, because they number them by calendar year and not season.  So all the episodes since January 1 are together.  Unfortunately, 2014 doesn't fit in the season field.  :-(

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When a well-known woman from a prominent family is found dead in her Aspen, Colo. home, the entire community is left in a state of shock, leaving the authorities wondering who was behind her apparent murder and why they did it.
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I really think the doctor's wife and the best friend did it. I think the doctor just decided to cover for them. This was an interesting one, but at the same time a little disappointing, because they kept intimating there was going to be some big bombshell that someone different altogether was responsible but it turned out to be the people they were focusing on all along. Still it was left sort of open ended with the two women getting off scot free.

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At first, I thought that the best friend did it and was framing the couple. After the doctor confessed, it was cemented in my mind that they all three planned it. I am surprised that the prosecutors dropped it after the guy confessed. I think by him saying that he did it all by himself, offered more circumstantial proof that he didn't. I mean, look at him. And people have been found guilty for far less.

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I'm convinced Nancy's friend was involved in this, and possibly the doctor and his wife.  There is no way in hell the doctor did that by himself.  I doubt the friend acted alone since it would be hard for someone of her stature to flip that mattress and move the body by herself, and I'm also inclined to think the doctor's wife may have been involved.  The only thing that makes me wonder is why, if the doctor or his wife were also involved, would the friend go out of her way to cast suspicion on them?  They could have easily rolled over and fingered her if the investigators tripped them up. 

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I read that article they mentioned about Nancy, because I was curious what negative things they said about her.  I thought it was so strange how Nancy just invited that woman to lunch, but apparently she always did things like that and was just very out going and had "whirlwind" friendships with people all the time..  They even mentioned a story about Nancy casually eating Chinese food and feeding some to a stranger.  None of this is important, but Nancy seemed like a pretty interesting person.

 

I think Nancy's personal assistant/friend might just be kinda stupid and a little off mentally, so she was easily lead by cops into embellishing her statements.  

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This was one of the few Datelines where I really didn't come away with a strong sense of what had happened. I agree that it's almost laughable that the doctor could have done it in his physical condition. I expected that when he confessed he'd also confess that he'd been exaggerating his physical issues, which is the only way it would kind of make sense, but he looked worse than ever at the confession interview.

 

For some reason, IMO his wife came off in the interviews as believable. She also ended up being so upset about what he'd done that she divorced him, which would be an especially low blow if he'd been covering for her. Here again, hard to piece it together so it all makes sense.

 

The best friend (interesting that she was portrayed more as a PA in the article Morbs linked--makes me wonder if she was exaggerating their friendship for Dateline) didn't strike me as credible. I know she claimed to be loopy on meds at the time of her interview but it did seem like she'd seen Nancy with blood all over her head. The description was pretty vivid. But I don't understand why the doctor would cover for her since they seemed like fly-by-night acquaintances. And then there was that odd detail about the key conveniently dropped right in front of the hotel room, which seems like a set-up. Don't know on this one--all really, really strange...

 

(Sounds trivial but I hope whoever did it at least had the humanity to leave enough food and water for the dog until the staged "discovery" of the body. I always feel bad for pets in those situations. Well, and the humans too, of course.)

 

ETA: I also gave the major side-eye on the BFF's story about  "only went to get the valuables from the safe deposit box as a courtesy to her daughter". Whether she did it or not, I think she figured the money (and maybe even the ring) would be forgotten in the chaos and she could give herself a little bonus.

Edited by ElleBee.
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"This was one of the few Datelines where I really didn't come away with a strong sense of what had happened."

 

 

This is how I feel too. It left me with a lot of questions?

Why would friend/assistant kill Nancy?

Why would she team up with this couple, that she has not known very long? Did they become pals for the time they were there?

Why did the couple want to kill Nancy? They were moving out, right? I didn't hear if they owed her more money.

 

I think they were all involved but, it made so little sense to me.

Edited by imjagain.
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One possibility is that the doctor, who we know was hard up for money, concocted the scheme with the "best friend/PA" so they could steal as many valuables from the house as possible and split the profit between them. Maybe his wife wasn't even in on it. Then the best friend chickened out and decided to stage a "discovery" and throw the doctor and his wife under the bus. That doesn't explain why the doctor still covered for the best friend though. Maybe he figured the best way to clear his wife was to take all the blame himself.

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I caught the repeat of this episode last night, but the first 20 minutes were cut off by the football game running over. :(

 

I'm glad they all made it home okay. But I can't help but wonder: Why do some parents of young kids feel that it is okay to take extraordinary risks just to break a record, or for fame, or...?

 

Makes no sense to me.

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I knew a little about case before watching. It was an interesting case or maybe it was just Keith's narration.

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I read that article they mentioned about Nancy, because I was curious what negative things they said about her.  I thought it was so strange how Nancy just invited that woman to lunch, but apparently she always did things like that and was just very out going and had "whirlwind" friendships with people all the time..  They even mentioned a story about Nancy casually eating Chinese food and feeding some to a stranger.  None of this is important, but Nancy seemed like a pretty interesting person.

 

I think Nancy's personal assistant/friend might just be kinda stupid and a little off mentally, so she was easily lead by cops into embellishing her statements.  

Thanks for linking that article.

 

 

Once, for example, Nancy and Juliana were in St. Tropez when Nancy saw a man on the deck of an 80-foot-long mahogany sailboat.

“Hey,” she called out. “Is that your sailboat?”

When the man said it was, Nancy didn’t skip a beat. “Can my daughter and I come with you?”

“And I was like, ‘Mom, ‘cmon!’ I was so embarrassed,” Juliana says. “But now I look back and think, man, I spent like two days on the most beautiful sailboat ever. I just think, if more people were like that, imagine the experiences we’d have.”

When a rich person puts their child in danger it's called being a free spirit- when others do it it's child abuse. 

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That was a really interesting episode and it's perhaps the only Dateline I've watched where I don't really have a firm idea of what happened. I do believe the friend was involved somehow. Her very vivid description of how Nancy was killed, the bizarre phone call to 911, the "Nancy will be sleeping off jet lag for 3 days" comment, and her very weird reaction to Keith's question of why she felt guilty really sealed the deal for me. Yes, I think you could argue that her "I feel guilty" comment was survivor's guilt, but she reacted like she'd been caught in a lie. Plus the fact that she took money and jewelry from the safe deposit box is very sketchy. Perhaps she was skimming some of the money from the rent she gathered from the doctor and his wife and knew Nancy would discover it when she returned? Coupled with the fact that she didn't seem to actually like her friend Nancy that much....

 

I just don't see the doctor doing the murder alone in his condition. I could see all three of them colluding somehow (though I did think his wife seemed credible, actually). Or perhaps the friend did it and pointed the finger at the couple and planted the evidence. The doc (who had not had the best legal dealings in the past), could have worried that both he and his wife could go to jail for something they didn't do and confessed to a crime he didn't commit in order to save his wife from trial. His letter claiming that he did it solely by himself could have served the purpose of making it less likely that the police and prosecutors would charge his wife in the future and also acted as a catalyst for her to move on with her life. Maybe he did "fall on his sword" for her. 

 

Well, I guess we will probably never really know!

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The Dr.'s wife, Nancy,  seemed cold and she clearly hated the landlord, Nancy, but that's not a crime. She did not strike me as untruthful. The friend, "Kathy, however raised red flags all over the place for me. The 911 call seemed chillingly forced to me.

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Omg that poor unstable, mentally ill neighbor. Bless his heart. Ok sometimes folks are seriously, clinically paranoid but additionally have plenty of reason to be legit paranoid. I didn't say that well, but you get my point.  Sad. 

 

I was watching the show before I read the comments, but I had serious redflags about the husband from the 911 call and he video.  Also, are we to believe that the man is in the shower (how lucky) and the pregnant wife is in the bedroom, yet she and the unborn are the only victims. Mmk 

Edited by ari333.
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Wow on that -----, the "other woman" Rachel.

 

We were watching the show and I stepped out for a sec. My bf called me in the room and said, "Hear this." 

 

The sexting "friend," Rachel,  said that she doesn't "wreck families" and  she "feels guilty" and "I don't want this to be cuz of me."

 

Well.. um... she knew the man was married and that his wife was pregnant. I do not excuse him. Not at all.  But she KNEW. And she sent him topless images of herself. That is gag-worthy to me. Thank God for the friend, Colton, who told LE what he knew.... and saw....

Edited by ari333.
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ari333: I didn't see the end of this one. Who was convicted of her murder ?

Hey! Ok. We had some bad weather and had to catch the end after the fact. Catching up on the ending...

So the wife had a lover too. Not great news. However, in her defense, she didn't murder her spouse to seek a life with the other man.

Anyway, after two mistrials, the husband was convicted.

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A churchgoing wife and mother survives being attacked at her home and shot in the head. Correspondent: Andrea Canning.

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This epsiode reminded me why I seldom watch this show anymore. I have only watched the first half hour, but in that time, Dateline has shown us guesses from everyone but the victim about what might have happened to the victim. Then at the 30 minute mark, the victim herself finally tells us exactly what happened to her.

 

Dateline takes the most circuitous and frustrating route to get to the conclusions of their stories. It is a complete waste of time, and I won't fall for it again. There are ways to build drama and tell a story, but Dateline takes a slow reveal to such an extreme that it insults and annoys some of its viewers.

Edited by Superpole2000.
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The police were so shocked it was the husband, because he was such an upstanding citizen. I turned to my family and said, "they must not watch Dateline."

Those daughters. They almost seemed brainwashed, and like they were blaming their mother. Your mom, out of the blue, gets shot in the face. It comes to light that your dad has been living a double life. The police have proof, including photos and audio, of him dealing with some very shady characters, including the alleged shooter. And for this, your relationship is stained with your mom? While your dad continues to enjoy your unflinching support?

I can see hoping and believing your dad is innocent. I can see refusing to concede that the man who raised you could do that. But they just seemed so cold toward their mother, that it seemed...off. At the end, when one of them said something about this "big, life-changing thing happening to their family", I was flabbergasted. As in, is she taking about her mom getting shot in the face? Yes, that certainly changed her life! Jeez!

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Whose bright idea was it to move Dateline an hour earlier to be up against The Amazing Race?

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Thanks for linking that article.

When a rich person puts their child in danger it's called being a free spirit- when others do it it's child abuse.

Exactly. I distinctly remember watching a dateline show about a woman who took her two daughters out on a stranger's boat in Florida and they all ended up dead in the ocean. Heartbreaking story.

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