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Shanell receives a letter from her fourteen-year-old half-sister crying out for help and threatening suicide. The sister is struggling with her life inside the Order and desperately wants out by any means.
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 Jessica has 2 kids and Shanell has 2 as well. Andrea does not have any at this time. Unless something has changed since last summer this is what I remember and can find on them. What you heard might have been them saying each mother has 10 kids. Which BTW, new season starts on July 10th and moved to A&E if I remember the channel right.

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Since there's not a lot of conversation on this show yet, I thought we should probably do all of the season 2 eps in one thread. I'll be back when I've had a chance to watch the first ep. 

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Sounds good. I think it was quiet because of how late this forum was started after the shows had aired. I know I will be back once the first one airs as well. 

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I think it aired the other night, actually. I found season 1 surprisingly engrossing. I'm glad it's back. 

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There was a sneak peek aired but I don't think the season starts until July 10.

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It starts next week. Court is right its July 10th. My dvr has it set. I am glad its back too.

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They're rerunning this episode right now.  What I got from the conversation was that the Order would expect them to have 10 kids each and would count both them and their theoretical children as "lost members" which is why they fight to keep girls who are trying desperately to escape. 

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I love this show.  Everyone is so creepy, all the people standing around all the time.  How much of this is staged?

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I am not sure how much. I have read different things but have wondered what the truth is since some things come from bitter creepy cult people. I don't trust them to ever really tell the truth about anything. Of course there is then the fact though that we know that reality tv isn't 100% reality so it would be interesting to see what is and what isn't with this show. There are parts you can get a feel or can tell are scripted but some stuff I wonder if it is or isn't. Either way its bringing to light a lot of issues with these groups and what happens to these girls and boys that some people may not have been aware of. 

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These are real issues, but we can't know if the scenes we're watching are staged, starring former members who left long ago. Given what we've learned about the "Sister Wives" family's completely faked escape from Utah with phantom CPS agents on their tail, I'm inclined to think they are pretty staged. It's hard to get into the show when I have no idea whether what I'm seeing has some relationship to the truth, even though I'm very interested in the topic.

I wish producers would trust the audience a little more. I'd watch more if they missed the dramatic escape sometimes, but I knew I could trust what I'm seeing. They occasionally snap an AMAZING moment of truth, like when the Warren Jeffs escapee denied that he could be in jail for life. More of that would make for a better show.

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Sadly these people behind reality shows don't understand what we REALLY would prefer to see to their scripted crap. I would know with this show that it is scripted in parts but that its still bringing these issues to light and how bad they can be..as well as what its like for those that leave. Yet at the same time let's see how it really is. I know that can be hard to do at times but to much is scripted nowadays and for the drama of it all...I prefer to leave the fake drama behind and see the real truth. Which really might not be that boring to most of us. 

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What this show has done for me is to point out that the 'escape' is not always black and white for the escapees, or for those aiding them.  They are escaping oppression and a slave mentality, but there is a very real possibility that they will not see siblings or friends again, that virtually everything about who they are will have to change.  As euphoric a moment as it may be to get new clothes  or a haircut, it has to be terrifying to fit into a new world where everything you have ever believed is turned on its head.

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After reading Jon Krakauer's book Under the Banner of Heaven many years ago, I've always been fascinated by the polygamy cults and everything these girls talk about is pretty much in line with what happens.  Also, the Kingston clan is infamous and is considered an organized crime family by the government. I'm sure a lot of the scenes here are staged or are re-creations, but I don't disbelieve the events happened.  The footage where they show Paul or some of the other leaders speaking are super-creepy. And it's weird how even though he doesn't know the names of most of his own kids, he is on cell phone contact with all of them, particularly when the siblings are reporting escapees. It's hard not to hate the moms of these girls, but I guess once you're in they do everything in their power to tie you up so you can't leave, through your ties to your children being threatened, and their safety, your lack of education and skills, etc.  It's also pretty similar to the "gypsies" culture that used to be on TLC except they don't practice polygamy but do marry young. And all of them are beautiful.

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I have only just discovered this show and it breaks my heart. I admire the sisters' courage in trying to help the others, but even after helping one escape, you can see the runaway is having internal conflict. They have been so brainwashed so believe a simple man is a prophet and everything outside of the family is evil. So naturally once they have fled, they view the sisters with skepticisim. They are not able to see how twisted their beliefs are. It is so sad to see how uneducated and fearful they are.

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Chalby I agree. It must be hard to see these girls that go back. More so when its a sister being suckered into going back by using the guy she think she is in love with and knowing they are just using him too to lure her back in their grasp. The one sister with the Warren Jeffs group....only leaving because of her sister. Those ones you can see how brain washed they are. Especially the one. I think if they aren't ready or are running off in a manner that comes off like a tantrum (can't marrying who I wan't like the sister) that there is more that chance of them going back. The ones that get out and stay out are the ones that are sick of the abuse and cycle that keeps going on and on in those places. The one girl, Yolanda (I think that is her name) that they got out last season, she is looking good but still has a look of being unsure of certain things. I think that once the years go on that that look will change though. I feel really bad for the "lost boys" though. I hope they will bring more of that to light because its really hearbreaking how they treat their own sons and dump them off with nothing in the middle of nowhere. 

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What I like about this show is it seems more real to me than that horrible Amish reality show in that these sisters are really doing some good in the world.

I discovered this show today because my internet was out for hours and this was the only interesting thing for me to watch (I'd watched everything on my DVR already).

I really wish polygamy, Scientology, the Amish, far right evangelical Christian cults like the Quiverfull movement and the Gothardites and any other closed off religious group was broken up so these people can live the lives they want to live not what some male leader tells them to believe.

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They don't want girls to escape because those are their future brides who can give them more kids (and more girls to marry).  They control those girls by getting them pregnant as fast as possible (and they can fight for custody of their kids).

The FLDS stuff is scary. 

It's also amazing how many of the girls seem to still believe even as they leave their order.  They left because of a family member or because of abuse or a marriage they're not allowed.

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1 hour ago, meatball77 said:

They don't want girls to escape because those are their future brides who can give them more kids (and more girls to marry).  They control those girls by getting them pregnant as fast as possible (and they can fight for custody of their kids).

The FLDS stuff is scary. 

It's also amazing how many of the girls seem to still believe even as they leave their order.  They left because of a family member or because of abuse or a marriage they're not allowed.

 

Which as we saw in the last episode (I think it was that one) you see how they will lure them back with claims they can be with the one they want to marry. Yet we all know it won't work that way. You can tell how brainwashed they are too for how they will still be when leaving..and more so if they go running back.  Its a very sad thing.

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I really like this show.  Polygamy sucks the soul from every wife that's involved.  Looking at you, Brown Sister Wives.  These children and their stories break my heart.  

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I had a friend of a friend who married into the FLDS group without knowing it, i.e., the guy lied about being married already. I don't think they were the extreme Amish-style FLDS, but very insular and very scary all the same.  She escaped but literally feared for her life if she would ever go back to that town.  Her daughter died in a traffic accident, the group swooped in and grabbed the coffin after the funeral and took it back to their town, and she was never able to visit her grave.  She passed away from cancer still in fear from them.  So sad.  That was the first time I heard of these people.  I'm glad they're getting a little more notice now so perhaps law enforcement at some level may start paying attention.  

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Law enforcement knows.  Even when they get enough political pressure to raid the places, a couple of guys go to jail, but the press coverage of women sobbing for their seized children results in the kids being returned and everything continuing as before (except now the kids are truly traumatized and convinced that outside people want to destroy their families, which just binds them further to the group). Probably the only thing that's going to work is cracking down on their welfare scams.  

Just binge watched this season and I don't understand why they don't wear the prairie dresses when they're going to meet women in prairie dresses in public locations.  (I know Jeff's daughter did to sneak into the compound)  If you're meeting somebody who wants to get out, and you're meeting them in a public parking lot, and fussing about "I hope nobody sees us" it seems like a reasonable precaution would be to wear the outfit, so that any random passerby would dismiss it as 2-3 FLDS gals chatting in a parking lot and not give a second look.  As opposed to an FLDS girl standing in a parking lot talking to women in tank tops and torn jeans with dyed hair.  

And I really hope they have better security than the on-camera guys.  I hope they're just keeping them off screen.

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Calamity Jane, I am sorry that the lady had to go through so much in her life. Its a scary thing for sure. Sadly the way things in some of these cities/states it seems that so many of these disgusting cults have their hands in as much as they can so they can skip on by without a second glance on what is so wrong. And as kassa said, the fact is that there are so many cases that they kids end up back in that spot again and look at the outside world as bad because of the brainwashing things they are told. Then there are the ones that are trying to get out and underage but given back because they are underage. This is why last season the one teen was taken into Nevada because they can't touch them there. I am glad to have seen in this last episode the one brother of a couple of the girls and him realizing he wants a better life than that. He said he didn't want to be married to a 14 yr old because it was wrong and didn't want to have a family with daughters being put in that spot either. While the conversation with his mom I was trying to figure out why on earth the mom wasn't trying to get out of that life. She has had so many kids run away to get away from that life and I don't doubt more will. On the topic of Warren Jeffs daughter that was on it, her one Uncle is still on the run right now from the last thing I saw. I am sorry she didn't get to contact her sister like she wanted but hopefully at some point she is able to and maybe even get her out of that life. 

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I love this show and I tell people about it all the time. This board isn't very active, but did anyone else see the episode from yesterday with the FLDS woman Lizzy? She was brainwashed for sure, but she seemed to know it wasn't right to never be allowed to see her daughter. I couldn't tell if she actually bought into the rhetoric about reading and music being unwholesome. She seemed to think that's what she "needed to repent about", but I can't tell if she knows that they aren't actually wrong.

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I don't understand how Warren jeffs can do all these things from prison.  Maybe an atty on the board could explain?  What's next?  Make a big batch of cyanide kool aide and take a big swig?

 I realize that the city officials in the flds places are corrupt, but how can you just take children from their parents?  I know the parents won't put up a legal fight, but this is just crazy.  

This show breaks my heart.  These people are the Stockholm syndrome times a million.  It's happening in America, on tv, on Sunday nights.

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1 hour ago, toodles said:

I don't understand how Warren jeffs can do all these things from prison.  Maybe an atty on the board could explain?  What's next?  Make a big batch of cyanide kool aide and take a big swig?

 I realize that the city officials in the flds places are corrupt, but how can you just take children from their parents?  I know the parents won't put up a legal fight, but this is just crazy.  

This show breaks my heart.  These people are the Stockholm syndrome times a million.  It's happening in America, on tv, on Sunday nights.

I didn't watch last night yet. I do have it on my dvr for later but I can imagine that this is why one of the sisters went to school to get more of an education and become a lawyer. I think she wanted to be able to do more than what they do now and help in such ways. And with FLDS its not just kids they take away. There are things I have read about a mother or father being taken away to "repent" for who knows what and most time they are not ever allowed back. Which we know if you leave no one can ever talk to you again. Its just insane how these cult groups are allowed to even survive though. There is really so many illegal things going on in them. 

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What these young women are doing is, as they say in religious circles "Gods work", by helping others escape from this crazy cult. You could see that Lizzy was a lost cause unlike the others who've left. It's so scary what religious cults do to people and the society around them.

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I don't usually criticize anyone's faith but these people have got to go. Yes, there are so many wrongs here and why are they allowed to survive? At least this group is not as uneducated as the Amish group.

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8 hours ago, KellyAnn3 said:

I love this show and I tell people about it all the time. This board isn't very active, but did anyone else see the episode from yesterday with the FLDS woman Lizzy? She was brainwashed for sure, but she seemed to know it wasn't right to never be allowed to see her daughter. I couldn't tell if she actually bought into the rhetoric about reading and music being unwholesome. She seemed to think that's what she "needed to repent about", but I can't tell if she knows that they aren't actually wrong.

 

She tried but I don't think she really wanted to leave.  She kept saying how she just has to work harder at her "faults", not just the reading and the music, she also said not being able to get up at 5am was on the list of things that made her unworthy.  I can't even come up with words strong enough to ask what kind of men these are and what kind of religion it is that could convince a women that God hates her because she can't get up at some arbitrary time.

And the daughter that got taken away..........If Lizzie has drunk the kool-aid this poor girl has had it injected directly in her brain.  I wish I could remember the exact quote but it was so sad when Chanelle told her they were talking to her mother and she said something like she's almost 14 so she's old enough to be a mother.  I bet if she met her future husband tomorrow and he was a 45 year old second cousin she'd line up to marry him with no question and that's just incredibly sad.

Edited by sigmaforce86. Reason: edited because spelling matters!
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I just had to post about this last episode.  I have never seen a woman so defeated and devoid of will in my life.  It was amazing how Julie (the daughter) was basically telling her mother what to do.  I caught the line about being old enough to be a mother and I threw up in my mouth a little.  That was such an incredibly sad ending.  It probably took all of Lizzy's energy to make that escape and drive for nine hours with her daughter probably cursing her the entire time.  Poor woman just didn't have anything left.  I wonder how much trouble she was in when she got back to Colorado City.  Plus, she has basically ensured that she will never have access to her daughter again.  I wish this show were fictional....ugh....:(

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WOW. This actually goes on in our country.... I noticed that these FDLS people have this "possessed" look in their eyes. They are totally brainwashed, by MEN who are physically stronger than they are. The life of abuse will go on with the daughter. Right now she feels "special" because she belongs to the higher order. Wait until she gets a 90 yo geezer for a husband and gets to be wife #8. At 13-14 she's old enough to be a mother?....What about school, career....life? WHERE are our authorities to break up this sick, abusive cult? I didn't know if I wanted to hug or slap these 2 women (Lizzy & Julie).

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I like this show, and I think they do a great job. But this is the first episode where I've had misgivings. I think it was essential that Lizzie's friend (who originally sought help) be there to support Lizzie. For without that support, Lizzie capitulated to the brainwashed Julie, and returned to servitude. Heartbreaking.

So I agree that the FLDS are chiefly to blame. But when breaking women out of the cult, the "first do know harm" principle also applies. Breaking girls out of the Kingston Order has worked okay, but the women from the FLDS have been brainwashed so much more. Perhaps they need to add an expert psychologist to the team?

So the girls need to up their game against the FLDS.

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Yeah I think they may not have realized how different FLDS is from Kingston. While they are the same in many ways, there are those differences that are obvious when you see these people. I watched this episodes this afternoon. It was heartbreaking to see how this went. I was wondering where the friend was. She should have been there. I was also amazed at how much control this daughter had over the mom as well in the situation. She obviously made mom get up and drive them out of there and go back. The poor girl is so brainwashed with saying that isn't her mom to how she is old enough to have babies. My heart broke for not just her but all these little girls that are shoved off to some old man to have more kids for the sicko. They are so brainwashed to do so that they don't understand there is no other way. I knew the ones under Jeffs were pretty out there but I didn't realize how badly they are so sucked into him and his ways. Why are these people still allowed to do what they do to underage girls? I know education was brought up by Danag and it does make you wonder what they are taught in their schooling. They are obviously not allowed to go to school after a certain age but it makes you wonder what is going on in the schools and how are they allowed to get by on what they are doing for school. Is Utah laxed on schooling? I just know how my state is and I can't see them getting away with it unless they are rich idiots. When my son missed 10 days in middle school we had a phone call from them on him being at the limit of days out and their fake concern for it. Which after that you have to have dr notes. You can't just up and homeschool a child. There are laws in place for how to go about it. Its crazy stuff. 

 My 14 yr old son was watching the one before this with me last week. Once learning what these sick cults are, he was disgusted and said those people doing that stuff should get beat or worse. 

Looks like maybe in the next episode the one's mom is finally going to leave or am I mistaken? She had 4 of her kids leave already and I figured when the son left in the last one that she sounded like if he had told her he was leaving maybe she would have gone too and was ready to get out. At least I am hoping this is the case. 

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9 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

Looks like maybe in the next episode the one's mom is finally going to leave or am I mistaken? She had 4 of her kids leave already and I figured when the son left in the last one that she sounded like if he had told her he was leaving maybe she would have gone too and was ready to get out. At least I am hoping this is the case. 

You're right.  During the phone call with her son, she definitely said that she hated sitting in that church and that she wanted to leave too, but didn't know how.  I hope she leaves, but I wonder about her other children.  Maybe she brings any younger ones with her?

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2 hours ago, HZAnita said:

You're right.  During the phone call with her son, she definitely said that she hated sitting in that church and that she wanted to leave too, but didn't know how.  I hope she leaves, but I wonder about her other children.  Maybe she brings any younger ones with her?

Ok glad I heard right. LOL I hope she is leaving and I can imagine if she can takes those kids with. I can't imagine leaving any behind. Would be horrible to do so. 

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My heart just absolutely broke for Lizzie.  

I  felt like when she was speaking to the producer and talking about how she had to do better, it was part hope, part brainwashing, and part fear.  I think she really wanted out, but just held onto wanting her daughter back.  She was hopeful that maybe these people were really going to be able to get her out.  But her brainwashing was telling her she was wrong and then she was fearful that, after the show came out - even if she never tried to leave - she would be hit with further punishments for speaking out.

So she was trying to show that she was "obedient" to the cult and what she needed to do to be more "worthy" at the same time she was really hoping that someone was going to get her daughter for her and then help her leave.

I totally agree that her friend should have been there.  But I also think that they should have had a better plan than just the hotel.  I don't know...  It's really hard to second guess them.  This is just such a hard thing to do, no matter how you approach it.  Throw in the FLDS special brand of crazy and it's practically impossible.

Poor Lizzie.  I'm sure she doesn't have any of her kids with her now.  She's probably been sent off to forced "repentance". 

Quote

People often are moved around the country in hiding or working on crews for the group. The sect has homes scattered across several states where people are sent to repent for so-called misdeeds, Guiora said.

Interesting article about Warren Jeffs' son who left in 2014

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The Lizzie episode broke my heart. I think she partly went back in hopes of keeping her daughter with her. She's OK leaving or staying as long as she had all her kids with her, you know?  I'm sure she doesn't have any of her kids with her now.

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Well, at least last night's episode seemed to have a more positive ending.  I do feel worried about these women.  They leave with not much more than the clothes on their backs.  I hope that the producers, at the very least, get these women in contact with the resources they are going to need, like social services, GED services if they didn't complete high school, and good lawyers so they can sue their "husbands" for child support.  I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV), but since they should already have proof that their "husbands" were supporting them and the children while they were "married," I would think all they would need for child support is a DNA test...?  Unless they are afraid, which I could completely understand.

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This episode seemed off to me.  The first mother (Shirley?) said she and her children were homeless.  But didn't they tell her not to worry about that before she left?  Why wasn't she living in one of those cute little little apartments they seem to have for everyone else?  Where were all the people that were supposed to be helping her?  And who funds all of this?   This is a big operation and that involves big bucks. 

These things make me go hmmmm.

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That was the house she was assigned by Kingston. It's on Order property. It was a dump because she is deemed unworthy.

Kingston kicked her out because she let the health department in and brought shame upon them.

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36 minutes ago, Court said:

That was the house she was assigned by Kingston. It's on Order property. It was a dump because she is deemed unworthy.

Kingston kicked her out because she let the health department in and brought shame upon them.

I understand about the order house.  But she seems to be homeless now.  She had no money and was desperate.

Edited by toodles.
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16 minutes ago, toodles said:

I understand about the order house.  But she seems to be homeless now.  She had no money and was desperate.

Many of these women are already on public assistance (food stamps/welfare), so they know to go to the government for help and there are a number of organizations specifically set up in that area to aide women with minor children that leave Polygamist Groups/Cults. I would think that these daughters already out in the real world know who to contact and pass that info along, they showed that when they helped the 2 sisters escape from the FLDS in Colorado City.

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I haven't watched last night's episode yet but just wanted to say that these 3 sisters have helped whoever get set up in many ways. They help them with getting GEDs and so on. I think there is so much we don't see on it that they do. Such as therapy they may need as well. I think when it comes to laws and stuff its part of why the one is going to school to become a lawyer so she can do more on that side of things for these people that leave. It would help add to their fight and getting the help that ones with children need or the ones underage may need in leaving before its to late. As for child support, I doubt these men would ever pay a damn cent into it even if a court ordered it. They do everything they can to hide money and what they do. So good luck getting that sadly. 

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The lady who called the health department seems a bit manic.  I'm not saying she doesn't have the right to be, but compared to the other women we've met, she is much higher maintenance.  She has a mother to go to, and I'm sure she had a roof over her head in the intervening weeks - I think she's just naturally a catastrophist.  Not to minimize her plight in any way -- it's just a very different emotional reaction than most escapees have shown.  I also note that her daughters were not particularly concerned or reassuring, so I'm guessing they're used to it and not really alarmed.  Sometimes with that type of personality, comfort is the last thing you need to provide, because they're bottomless pits and you'll never do it right, so it's best to be cordial and protect your psyche.

If this was not par for the course during their lives even back in The Order, I suspect there would be more hand holding and back rubbing, but they seemed pretty unimpressed, over all.

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37 minutes ago, kassa said:

The lady who called the health department seems a bit manic.  I'm not saying she doesn't have the right to be, but compared to the other women we've met, she is much higher maintenance.  She has a mother to go to, and I'm sure she had a roof over her head in the intervening weeks - I think she's just naturally a catastrophist.  Not to minimize her plight in any way -- it's just a very different emotional reaction than most escapees have shown.  I also note that her daughters were not particularly concerned or reassuring, so I'm guessing they're used to it and not really alarmed.  Sometimes with that type of personality, comfort is the last thing you need to provide, because they're bottomless pits and you'll never do it right, so it's best to be cordial and protect your psyche.

If this was not par for the course during their lives even back in The Order, I suspect there would be more hand holding and back rubbing, but they seemed pretty unimpressed, over all.

This is a really great point.  It wasn't until you mentioned it that I really remembered the LACK of reaction from her daughter when she was spazzing out about looking for the tub with the dresses.  That woman is probably so conflicted it's painful.   She knows she should leave, but it seems like a part of her is still questioning her decision.  Also, I guess their grandmother is not part of the Order?

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Wasn't it the daughter that brought the health dept. to her mom's home to try to help get her out of there? I agree that the mom has come off a bit manic or something just not right. She didn't want to sign off on things at that time even though the health dept told her how unsafe/healthy her home was. She wouldn't leave at all. She doesn't just have her daughter out there. I think her brother and a sister may have already left long ago and try to help as well in ways. Which her mental state is something I wonder about with many because of how they marry each other in Kingstons order. There has to be some medical issues with all that "keeping the bloodline pure" bs. 

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1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Wasn't it the daughter that brought the health dept. to her mom's home to try to help get her out of there? I agree that the mom has come off a bit manic or something just not right. She didn't want to sign off on things at that time even though the health dept told her how unsafe/healthy her home was. She wouldn't leave at all. She doesn't just have her daughter out there. I think her brother and a sister may have already left long ago and try to help as well in ways. Which her mental state is something I wonder about with many because of how they marry each other in Kingstons order. There has to be some medical issues with all that "keeping the bloodline pure" bs. 

And the fact that she is really under educated doesn't help.

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2 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

Wasn't it the daughter that brought the health dept. to her mom's home to try to help get her out of there? I agree that the mom has come off a bit manic or something just not right. She didn't want to sign off on things at that time even though the health dept told her how unsafe/healthy her home was. She wouldn't leave at all. She doesn't just have her daughter out there. I think her brother and a sister may have already left long ago and try to help as well in ways. Which her mental state is something I wonder about with many because of how they marry each other in Kingstons order. There has to be some medical issues with all that "keeping the bloodline pure" bs. 

No, the mom made that call, not the daughter but that doesn't mean the daughter didn't encourage her to make it. I wonder if the mother would have made that call or left the Order had she been in a better house, a more favored wife because I'm not so sure she would.

The "informant" or the daughter explained that after Jeff's was arrested the Kinston Order made amends with the FLDS in hopes that they could have access to new bloodlines.

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