"Maybe there are no good guys.": Characters of the 100

I thought we could have a character discussion thread, since there doesn't appear to be one. Plus, I just have to get my frustrations with the characterization of Clarke this season off my chest.

I'm really disappointed with the writing for Clarke this season. She became whatever the plot or other's character arcs needed her be, so you couldn't really get in to her headspace. In the rare instance where she was allowed to react to anything, she was only permitted to be apologetic for the umpteenth time. It's great that every other character was allowed to get everything off their chest to her (I guess), but there's nothing more frustrating than watching a bunch of people who are continually written to have no solutions of their own, continue to rag on a character, and then when met with hardship, turn to face said character expecting a solution once again. Yet, she still has to continually apologize as she set the plans in motion. Unless they're going for some depiction of the long-suffering (in silence) of a leader, it's becoming ridiculous. How many times has Clarke said something along the lines of: "Have a better idea?", only to be met with blank stares and silence? At what point will Clarke be permitted to turn to everyone else and tell them to piss off if they think they can do a better job? Which is it--Clarke's done a shit job and shouldn't carry on doing said shitty job or Clarke abandoned us, boohoo? You can't have it both ways. You particularly can't continue chewing her out for both (with Clarke having to apologize for both). This has been nothing but frustrating to behold.

Edited by Solace247.
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Or maybe Clarke shouldn't be entitled little queen that expects people to still be sympathetic to her woman pain after everyone's being through. She was a crap person, left people that trusted her and betrayed her friends by staying and literally sleeping with the enemy that destroyed her psychologically and hurt her supposed friends. They definitely forgave her shitty selfish behavior way too easily in the end, even after she continued to make disastrous horrible decisions. But since she's a lead character, everyone just gets it slide. I have no sympathy left for Clarke and her bullshit.

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On 6/2/2016 at 11:53 AM, Solace247 said:

I thought we could have a character discussion thread, since there doesn't appear to be one. Plus, I just have to get my frustrations with the characterization of Clarke this season off my chest.

I'm really disappointed with the writing for Clarke this season. She became whatever the plot or other's character arcs needed her be, so you couldn't really get in to her headspace. In the rare instance where she was allowed to react to anything, she was only permitted to be apologetic for the umpteenth time. It's great that every other character was allowed to get everything off their chest to her (I guess), but there's nothing more frustrating than watching a bunch of people who are continually written to have no solutions of their own, continue to rag on a character, and then when met with hardship, turn to face said character expecting a solution once again. Yet, she still has to continually apologize as she set the plans in motion. Unless they're going for some depiction of the long-suffering (in silence) of a leader, it's becoming ridiculous. How many times has Clarke said something along the lines of: "Have a better idea?", only to be met with blank stares and silence? At what point will Clarke be permitted to turn to everyone else and tell them to piss off if they think they can do a better job? Which is it--Clarke's done a shit job and shouldn't carry on doing said shitty job or Clarke abandoned us, boohoo? You can't have it both ways. You particularly can't continue chewing her out for both (with Clarke having to apologize for both). This has been nothing but frustrating to behold.

I do think the others, Bellamy eapecially, are much too hard on Clarke. As you mention, they seem to expect her to lead and then immediately attack her when she makes decisions they don't like. They lack compassion. But it's not really that different from how we treat our real leaders in the US.

I've read a lot about viewers having trouble with Clarke's character development in season three, but I liked it a lot. I think she fell deeply in love with Lexa and wanted to stay with her; Lexa did the same thing. But both were also burdened by this steadfast loyalty and feeling of obligation to their respective tribes. Clarke spent the whole season battling that: Should her loyalty be with Lexa and nurturing that relationship, or with her people who were falling apart? In the end, she chose her people...mostly. Interestingly, though, Lexa sort of chose Clarke.

Edited by madam magpie.
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I know a lot of you are tired of discussing Bellamy's actions this season but I want to offer the perspective of someone who just binged the first three seasons as my introduction to the show (thanks Netflix!).

I think the problem a lot of you have is that Bellamy's actions make no sense tactically, morally, intellectually. Totally fair. Not disputing that. However, I think they're also totally in character for him and I think they serve a more important thematic purpose. I find it perfectly realistic for him to backslide into being weak after his frankly quick turnaround to S2 hero as opposed to S1 asshole. For me it makes him a more real and complex character.

I also believe that the "point" of this storyline was to draw out the thematic and moral questions that come with the uncritical following of a strong, charismatic fascist leader (YMMV but I think that's what Pike is intended to be). I think this storyline has echoes of Hitler and the German people's complicity, and I think themes related to this come out through Bellamy's storyline: how far are we willing to follow in line with committing acts of atrocity.

I think Bellamy is perfectly suited to draw out these themes and storyline - we've seen that his character is a weak one, a follower, but a good soldier, easily manipulated (see the assassination of Jaha plot) and lacking moral guidance. He was also emotionally compromised at the time (Gina, whatever, and a perceived betrayal by Clarke, doubly so) and I think that allowed him to get swept up in Pike's rhetoric without being able to pause to critically think.

As the atrocities continue through the season, Bellamy becomes more and more entrenched in his belief that he's doing the right thing. To admit otherwise is to take on the weight of the  countless murders he has already committed. I think it became an act of self preservation in order to stay sane and not be overcome by guilt.

Yes, a bit more of this could have been shown, I agree, but this show has consistently skimped on moments of important character development (for me, Finn's 180 degree personality swap is a case in point). I think it was perfectly clear otherwise.

Except for one thing... The fall-out/redemption... I do think it has been done very poorly so far. I guess you could say the characters have been caught up in the plot sweeping them along and haven't gotten time for much of a breather to think through the potential weight of all this... But it does seem like it's being filed away as just one more thing to live with... Which: no. This is definitely a step beyond what any of our other protagonists have done so far and needs to be addressed as such.

My hope is that the writers have seen the backlash and try to repair this. I think there's still time. Once the characters get some time to breathe and digest what has happened, the full moral weight will come down on them all and Bellamy will have to face some real consequences. I think this is still possible. Fingers crossed, because I actually thought this storyline was really interesting and I'm glad they did it. I really disliked Bellamy as a Mary Sue last season. I think his character has a lot of potential for interesting stuff, mostly because he is so weak (and yet very capable and charming, and the top billed male cast member - definitely a rare thing to see!).

Sorry that was so long but hopefully it made sense.

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My favorite character by the end of season three was Murphy.  Murphy!  Never would have believed that in earlier seasons.  Never underestimate the power of a witty one-liner, consistent characterisation and believable character growth. (and all your previous favorites behaving completely out of character)

Clarke annoyed me this season.  Yes, she stayed with the grounders, but she could have spent a bit longer making others understand why she was doing it and smoothed over some things (but I guess that wouldn't have served where they wanted to take the plot).  She seemed very primadonna to me this season and only started acting in ways I could identify with towards the end.

I was fine with Bellamy season one and season two.  While Bob Morley continues to be a favorite of mine, Bellamy was just stupid too many times this season for reasons that only served a plotline.  Once all the characters reunited he started getting better and motivations became clearer and some of the damage was repaired, but still...  I do think relying on the 30 second girlfriend with whom he had no chemistry for motivation was a  mistake.  I couldn't understand why he was following Kane one minute, with almost a fatherly vibe, and then wouldn't listen to him the next.  Still, things were getting much better towards the end of the season.  

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ETA: Nevermind. I'm not going to post in this thread again. This show pisses me off.

Edited by CooperTV.
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Whoever plays Clarke took me out of the show with her acting.  Even when she was supposed to be crying, it just seemed underwhelming.  

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On 10/10/2016 at 9:42 AM, CooperTV said:

Or maybe Clarke shouldn't be entitled little queen that expects people to still be sympathetic to her woman pain after everyone's being through. She was a crap person, left people that trusted her and betrayed her friends by staying and literally sleeping with the enemy that destroyed her psychologically and hurt her supposed friends. They definitely forgave her shitty selfish behavior way too easily in the end, even after she continued to make disastrous horrible decisions. But since she's a lead character, everyone just gets it slide. I have no sympathy left for Clarke and her bullshit.

This right here. I seen too many people turn against Bellamy and excuse Clarke when she hypocritically forgave and fucked Lexa so easily when she left Clarke and her friends to die in Season 2. There are no saints in this show period. Basically everyone has done something terrible.  

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6 hours ago, jay741982 said:

This right here. I seen too many people turn against Bellamy and excuse Clarke when she hypocritically forgave and fucked Lexa so easily when she left Clarke and her friends to die in Season 2. There are no saints in this show period. Basically everyone has done something terrible.  

So Clarke (possibly) forgiving Lexa after months passed, with Lexa trying to make up for it with protecting Clarke's people, is wrong. But Clarke forgiving Bellamy one day later after he caused 320 people to die so he wouldn't had to face punishment is totally ok? Why exactly is a situation that showed outright forgiveness given under no time much more acceptable than the assumed one from Clarke regarding Lexa after a much longer period and actual effort shown by Lexa?

Also everyone has done something terrible? Sure. But lets not pretend the burden of horrible actions is equal across the board.

Bellamy was the one who helped put Trump Jr. in charge and armed him. Bellamy went with a handful of people in the night and butchered 300 people that were there to protect them. Bellamy is the mid twenties guy that took a day before he started fucking teenage girls that he had an insane power difference over, being the sole adult in charge of water, food, weapons, shelter and security. Bellamy went to murder kids in their sleep, and got angry when the old people there placed a trap that killed one of his wannabe child killers friends. Bellamy was fine with a girl getting her face burnt off in order to further his own agenda. Bellamy got 320 people killed, while trying to get the entire population of the Ark killed (that is how many kids and babies?). Bellamy is the one that stopped Lincoln and a bunch of sick grounders from breaking out of prison that they were meant to die in. Bellamy is the one that previously supported a friend leaving to take care of herself, and then withdrew that support and threw a massive bitch fit at her for not being around to be his mom. Bellamy is the one that not even two days after the death of his sister boyfriend, whined over her still being mad at him.

Bellamy is the character that has shown to creep over in abusive controlling behaviour of his sister, complete with assigning a man to ensure she only talked to people he thought he should talk to, and confined to certain areas. Not to mention leaving a guy his sister liked out to die because they kissed, and then be pleased when he was so traumatized over it that he didn't want anything to do with his sister afterwards. This controlling behaviour started showing its ugly head again in S3. And I haven't even listed all the shitty and horrible things Bellamy has done, and yet would be hard pressed to produce such a list for one of our other protagonists. Things only get worse if we then start putting in motivation for those bad actions, where quite often Bellamy's are either selfish or in the case of S3 based on Man Pain and Xenophobia.

Like Bellamy has done some good things, particularly in S2 where he swapped personalities with Finn, but the amount of bad would had landed any other character as a villain, and not in the 'grey area' many of the other characters are perceived to exist in. He got a free pass of his S1 actions by most cuz he started trying not act solely on his own self interest in S2 and Bob's skills. Problem is, season 3 added much more without a doubt morally black actions from him coupled with xenophobic rhetoric, misogynistic narratives, unnecessary genocide, attempt to purge a village etc. Also an utter lack of proper remorse and acknowledgement of his wrong doings. IF audience members are expected to deal with such horrid actions, we need to at least understand the motivation and feel like there was no better options.

There is a point where good looks, charisma and sad eyes stops getting you good will from the audience. Particularly as we can tell he did have a viable options to not do those things that would result in actually more positive outcomes with less dead people by his hands. It wasn't S1 where the Grounders were charging the Dropship, or S2 where their people were being drained and dying in front of them.

Him simply not choosing to murder people would had been win/win for all.

Edited by Riful.
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The Season 3 Bellamy and Octavia deleted scene:

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the way Pike’s story unfolded (particularly in 3A) is pretty shaky. The bones of an amazing arc and character are there, but the narrative doesn’t place enough weight on Pike’s concerns or the very real threats Arkadia is facing; the show itself focuses heavily on the violence Pike is capable of until 3B, so I don’t mean to mount a full-throated defense of the show’s handling of Pike. I do, however, mean to mount that defense when it comes to Pike as a character.

That said, I think it’s important to look at the political setup on the Ark. They’re rocking something of a Totalitarian democracy as it is. As far as I can suss out, the people elect their chancellor, who then holds close to unilateral power. The only check on the chancellor is the council–a council that incoming chancellor appoints. Then you have the Exodus Charter, which gives the chancellor the right to treat any crime as a felony. That’s a recipe for some truly effed up politics.

All the chancellors we’ve seen have been fine with making life and death choices based on their own agenda. Jaha and Abby both display a level of comfort with authoritarian rule–I adore Abby, but she’s no less guilty of “it’s my way because I have the pin, now do what I told you to do” way of governance than the rest of our motley chancellor crew. Pike absolutely sees himself as the ultimate authority once the pin is his, but that’s because… well, he is. I have a lot of feelings about how his arc went down in the narrative, but in terms of “what is going on in that shiny, shiny head of yours, Charles Pike” it pretty much scans.

For a concrete example of this, Pike’s order of execution is often spun as being beyond the pale or “out of nowhere”, but that’s not only pretty typical, it’s one of the few actions Pike takes that I will categorically defend. Quite obviously, as a viewer I didn’t want Pike to win and get three of my favorite characters killed, but Kane didn’t truss him up to hand him over to the grounders so they could have a stirring debate or play a game of checkers. He was, in essence, playing an active part the assassination of his legally elected chancellor. If Pike had gone after Abby rather than Indra’s army in 3A, I can’t imagine that we’d say he shouldn’t be punished in whatever way she deemed necessary. The same applies here. It wasn’t the outcome I wanted as a viewer, but from a dispassionate standpoint Pike is the one with the law on his side.

There was a scene left on the cutting room floor where Pike begged Kane to recant and allow Pike to save him, and I wish to God it had been left in. Showing the audience that Pike was ready to pass the sentence and swing the sword and that he tried to find another way before going to the worst option on the table would have made the choice land as less cold and more the only choice he felt was left to him.

This is where I think they fell down most. Pike can seem cold or dictatorial because the narrative doesn’t emphasize that these choices aren’t ones he makes lightly, and because the show doesn’t spend enough time walking the walk that it’s factually wrong but entirely reasonable to view the world through his myopic lens.

The massacre of Indra’s army is the most egregious example of that second issue (and the one I would full-stop get rid of if I had a hand in the writing) but the lack of emphasis later on, say, the fact that Pike wanted to take that village’s land because Arkadia genuinely needs it to survive made him seem violent and arbitrary to many viewers, rather than a desperate man taking desperate measures.

The way I look at the Charles Pike who rolls up on Arkadia is best summed up through a ridiculous analogy, but go with me. Let’s say you’ve never heard of blonds before. Not just haven’t met one, but didn’t even think they were a thing. Then you find out a bunch of kids you feel personally responsible for have been killed by these mysterious blonds. You lose contact with all those kids, so who knows what happened to them, and then it’s your turn to go meet these blonds.

The first interaction you have with blonds yourself ends in dead children. Then for nearly half a year, they try and kill you and everybody you love. They’re the boogeyman, for all intents and purposes, and by the time you find your friends again, every single blond person you’ve met has tried aggressively to murder your face right off. So, being a logical person who still would rather not die, you make it clear that blonds are super dangerous and to be avoided at all costs.

Your buddy is like, “No! I promise, your empirical evidence is wrong. You were just around the wrong blonds, our blonds are friendly.”

You’re skeptical, but you go with it because he’s your friend and hey, maybe he’s right and you’ve just been hanging with the wrong crowd. Then more than half the people you managed to drag out of the wilderness (including the last remaining children) die in an explosion set off by those pesky blonds. You go to your friend like “so, we can agree I’m right now, yes? Because of how I was just proved right?” and he not only tells you you’re still wrong, he tells you that you’re not allowed to do anything about all those people who just died. How ready are you to listen to your friend once everybody votes and they give you a mandate to lead as you see fit?

Tldr: I think the question of “is Pike a dictator” ends up more or less moot by virtue of every chancellor being a dictator. The argument is a valid one, but he’s no more or less dictatorial than Jaha or even Abby.

 

Some fandom meta about Charles Pike

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Looks like Jasper finally got over his case of Maya-angst.

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Echo:
-she’s a royal guard
-we’ll be seeing a lot more of her this season
-Tasya is intimidatingly beautiful but so sweet
-Bob mentioned something about Echo being the Big Bad this season (aside from the end of the world, of course)
-Bellamy is the only Skaikru Echo trusts (I’m fairly certain that sentiment isn’t returned though)

Niylah:
-We’ll definitely be seeing more of her this season!
-she’s very much a thought-before-action type of person
-sounds like she has more sex scenes this season? (She was talking about them in the plural and she only had one in s3 so…)
-she is part of Trikru
-she’s no longer still wandering through the woods after Clarke told her to leave (lol)
-she loves Clarke for what she did to Mount Weather, but she’s not in love with her

(I missed the main panel Tasya and Jessica were at because of my Sachin m&g, but @ginalou16 might be able to provide more info!)

Octavia:
-her relationship with Bellamy is rocky and doesn’t get fixed right away

We actually didn’t talk about Octavia much (or anyone who wasn’t actually present) so I don’t think I have anything else to share!

 

Echo, Niylah and Octavia in season 4 from the recent UnityDays20017 convention in Vancouver.

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Ever since season 3 aired, we’ve all discussed Bellamy’s controversial actions- particularly at the beginning of season 3, and I’ve seen opinions all across the board on this- “It was out of character,” “It was understandable given his past experiences with the grounders,” “It was meant to represent xenophobia,” “It doesn’t represent xenophobia because he was fearful with good reason,” “It was an act of war because of the blockade,” “It was a dishonorable war crime because everyone was sleeping.” 

So while I’ve seen a lot of debate on what Bellamy’s actions were and why he chose them, I haven’t really seen anyone offer an alternate course of action that he could have taken. There seems to be a general agreement that he shouldn’t have done what he did and that it was wrong, but no explanation on what choice he should have made. 

Now, putting aside the fact that Bellamy was not the leader of the opposition to the grounders and that the grounder army would have been killed whether or not he physically participated, I want to remember a couple of things that Jason said about the situation-

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He also said (I believe in an interview) that after Lexa died, if the grounder army had still been there when Ontari became commander, it would have immediately attacked the sky people. (if anyone could find the source for that, I’d appreciate it. I remember reading it, but it’s been a while and I didn’t save it).

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of war, and killing a bunch of sleeping people, even if they are an army, feels wrong to me, so I’m not trying to make a post that’s about acting like Bellamy is an innocent cupcake who has never done any wrong. I think anyone with any perspective can see that’s not true. I absolutely understand why his actions in season 3 felt so wrong to us, and felt wrong to me personally. My question is, knowing what we know- what should he have done?

What was the right course of action for Bellamy?

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What does the blockade have to do with anything? It happened after Bellamy decided that killing people in their sleep is something cool kids do. Ontari becoming a commander was also a direct result of that atrocity.

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the grounder army would have been killed whether or not he physically participated

Except for the insignificant detail that Bellamy was instrumental in Pike's coup.

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she’s very much a thought-before-action type of person

I refuse to believe people like that exist in The 100's universe. :)

Edited by Jack Shaftoe.
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Foreshadowing/paralells.

 

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As The 100 season 4 approaches, we celebrate the ‘teen’ drama’s often overlooked adult characters: Abby Griffin, Marcus Kane, Indra and Thelonious Jaha.

In the brutal world of CW’s The 100, the apocalypse doesn’t care who you are, or what you stand for. The key question of the show is whether you’re strong enough to survive — and if you do, can you live with yourself and the things you’ve done?

Our protagonist is Clarke Griffin, a fearless bisexual space heroine who crash-lands on Earth in the company of 100 teenage ‘delinquents’ sent to determine if the post-nuclear planet is habitable. A recent Hypable article zeroed in on the perceived generational conflict between the delinquents and the adults as a source of perpetual conflict, but we respectfully disagree.

By The 100 season 3, the divisions between ‘kid’ and ‘adult’ have largely eroded, and The 100 has carefully built an age-, gender-, and ethnically-diverse ensemble which gives as much narrative weight to the adult characters as it does to the delinquents. Without the hard choices Abby Griffin, Marcus Kane, and the rest of our ‘Team Adults’ make, all the characters we know and love would have perished long ago.

 

In praise of ‘Team Adults’: The unsung heroes of ‘The 100’

 

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KSITETV’s CRAIG BYRNE: One very interesting aspect I’ve noticed about the Season 4 episodes that we’ve been able to screen as press is that the young people seem to be echoing the adults’ roles in Season 1. Was that something you always wanted to shoot for?

JASON ROTHENBERG: That’s an interesting point. No, that wasn’t, really, although there is certainly a cycle of life thing happening where these young people have been through the fires and are hardened and able to survive and are fully realized adults, really, on their own right now. So there is that acceptance on the part of the older generation, but that happens, I think, in all our lives at some point. So, yes. There are episodes coming up this season where we really almost see a role reversal for Abby and Clarke, which is one in particular that I’m thinking of that’s amazing and emotional. We all go through that at some point, where our parents realize “they’re actually a grown-up, and I can bare my soul to them now.”

On a similar note of parallels, though, both Abby and Clarke have lost loved ones before needing to rise to  positions of leadership among their people.

I do think that there are parallels for sure, life lessons in common. Abby lost her husband, Clarke’s father, and has moved on, obviously emotionally now, by the time the Season 4 story picks up, and she is able to have a real relationship with Kane, which is one of my favorite relationships in the show. Clarke has lost two loves of her life, really. She’s been in love twice, and she’s lost them both, in a very, very tight timeframe, and so Abby knows how that feels and is there for her daughter in some beautiful ways this season. Again, I wouldn’t say that there was a deliberate parallel in terms of wanting to see something with Clarke that we saw with Abby. Zooming out for a second about this show, everybody last lost someone. It’s tragedy. They’ve all lost people that they care about and love, and they’ve all had to pick up the pieces and move on, or in some cases, let it break them and not move on. That’s just part of what this show is. Death is a big part of this show, and so the ways people deal with death are often on display.

 

Interview: The 100 EP Jason Rothenberg Previews Season 4

LOL, Jason and your ridiculous timeline where people spending a week together and having sex two times is considered True Love (tm)!

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So who was the best this episode: John "Character development what character development" Murphy or Octavia "My name is Bloodthirsty Murder McKilling" Blake?

And Bellamy's attitude in every scene with Echo is this:

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AND!

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From here

Edited by CooperTV.
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On existing themes that are changing, Adams points to Octavia — who he also names as his favorite character of the season, echoing both Jason Rothenberg and Bob Morley in previous Hypable interviews.

“Octavia is the one who has transformed the most so far, her character is really exciting this season. She’s unhinged,” he teases. “And so what you’ve got there, musically, is basically this cold-blooded killer, so we have this treacherous assassin motif for her. It’s this dark, gigantic horn theme, and then we’ll play it sometimes when she’s sneaking around, on lighter instruments. If you listen quietly we’ll play it on a harp or something like that. But yeah, she’s really exciting this season.”

 

‘The 100’ composer Tree Adams talks scoring season 4, finding the sound of the apocalypse

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The Panda Clan Strikes Back!

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Who makes the hard choices no one else can? Clarke Griffin! Who, when presented with a switch or button that will kill massive amounts of people, but save the people she loves, doesn't hesitate to flip that switch or press that button? Clarke Griffin! And who is loved by men and women alike, while being hated and envied by everyone around her? You know we're talking about Clarke Griffin.

13 Women Who Rule TV

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13 hours ago, CooperTV said:
 


In which being a mass murderer is glorified if you're a white woman named Clarke Griffin, but if you're a brown guy named Bellamy Blake, then well, sucks to be you, I guess.

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7 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

In which being a mass murderer is glorified if you're a white woman named Clarke Griffin, but if you're a brown guy named Bellamy Blake, then well, sucks to be you, I guess.

Also, if you a white woman, your angst about your murdering ways or just unrepentant murdering ways are called realistic struggle with guilt, loss and burden of leadership (see also: Octagon Blake). But if you're somehow not white but still wants redemption, everyone is going to want you beaten up by a sibling and dead because you're useless, stupid and scum of the Earth.

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Bellamy Blake: the parallels

It's so interesting that hallucination!Jaha from 1.09 says everything Bellamy's thinking about himself and he's crushed by guilt, and real!Jaha from 4.03 says to Bellamy "You don't need redemption" because Jaha's projecting his own guilt and attempts to process it on Bellamy, and Bellamy is not having any of it.

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On 10.3.2017 at 6:51 PM, CooperTV said:

Also, if you a white woman, your angst about your murdering ways or just unrepentant murdering ways are called realistic struggle with guilt, loss and burden of leadership (see also: Octagon Blake). But if you're somehow not white but still wants redemption, everyone is going to want you beaten up by a sibling and dead because you're useless, stupid and scum of the Earth.

Who is "everyone"? Generalizations like that don't help anyone in trying to have some sort of constructive discussion on here, to be honest. I'm sorry if you feel like your fav is not getting the treatment he deserves, but I'm really tired of having to argue against some vague, assumed mass of people outside of this board who may or may not be racist in their response to the show. The TV Guide blurp about Clarke certainly is debatable, but again... generalizations don't encourage actual, constructive debate, as far as I'm concerned.

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On 3/10/2017 at 5:16 AM, shireenbamfatheon said:


In which being a mass murderer is glorified if you're a white woman named Clarke Griffin, but if you're a brown guy named Bellamy Blake, then well, sucks to be you, I guess.

On 3/10/2017 at 0:51 PM, CooperTV said:

Also, if you a white woman, your angst about your murdering ways or just unrepentant murdering ways are called realistic struggle with guilt, loss and burden of leadership (see also: Octagon Blake). But if you're somehow not white but still wants redemption, everyone is going to want you beaten up by a sibling and dead because you're useless, stupid and scum of the Earth.

 

On 3/13/2017 at 5:26 AM, RedKeep said:

Who is "everyone"? Generalizations like that don't help anyone in trying to have some sort of constructive discussion on here, to be honest. I'm sorry if you feel like your fav is not getting the treatment he deserves, but I'm really tired of having to argue against some vague, assumed mass of people outside of this board who may or may not be racist in their response to the show. The TV Guide blurp about Clarke certainly is debatable, but again... generalizations don't encourage actual, constructive debate, as far as I'm concerned.

I agree. I can't tell if the bitterness/scorn is for the showrunners/writers or the way fandom (esp. tumblr) reacts to things. If it's the latter, take that beef to tumblr, I guess, because the people here don't really engage that way with the narrative.

Overall though, if you can't understand why "fans" sympathize more with and more easily forgive Clarke, it's at least partly due to her choices having context. The show always portrayed Clarke as struggling with her actions (even if briefly, like when she and Lexa ran off and let that village of unsuspecting folks get blown up so as not to blow their own cover). The reason some fans now vilify Bellamy is because the show didn't do that at all with the massacre storyline. It happened off-screen, not in any kind of immediate-danger situation, for very little reason (despite Rothenberg's insistence in interviews that it was a kill or soon be killed situation). It was a big misstep, and now the show is framing it with a lot of residual guilt to redeem Bellamy because the critical and fan response to that storyline and character's actions was so poor. 

How much racism plays into that fan reaction (or into the way the story is crafted), I couldn't say. Race on The 100 is a much bigger topic on tumblr, which is very social-justice oriented, than somewhere like this board. Personally, I was truly puzzled the first few times people referred to Bellamy or Bob as a POC. He looks white, I had no idea of his family background (which is probably the case with most viewers), and racial differences between the 100 are not highlighted on the show at all, in comparison to the colonialism/othering of the grounders and assorted "krus" v. the 100.

Edited by taragel.
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1 hour ago, taragel said:

He looks white

He doesn't look white at all. He very much looks like a Filipino man, and he is one. He spoke about racism he experienced in Australia since he was a child. Again, saying that he "looks" white is invalidating his race and treating being white as a default ("he looks white therefore he is white"), and Bob Morley said that himself:

 

That was said at the height of racist hate he was receiving on Twiiter from people who hate Bellamy and also Bob for doing his job.

1 hour ago, taragel said:

The show always portrayed Clarke as struggling with her actions (even if briefly, like when she and Lexa ran off and let that village of unsuspecting folks get blown up so as not to blow their own cover).

Clarke didn't struggle on screen the way Bellamy struggled with guilt since season 1, and her presumed guilt over Mt. Weather is still recognized more by the narrative (and therefore, by the viewer) than the same guilt and PTSD that Bellamy and Monty (two people of color) suffered after the same event. The show in season 3 positioned two progressive white girls (plus Octavia who "punished" her racial minority brother for his "misdeeds" for the viewers' enjoyment by beating him to teach him a lesson) against two xenophobic people of color (if you count Monty's mon and Monty himself, four). And the story of Arkadia (Pike, Bellamy and co) was largely cut from the show because the writers wanted Polis storyline about two white girls more.

Then Jason Rothenberg himself bullied Ricky Whittle off the show and also cut his Arkadia storyline, and Lincoln was killed halfway through the season because of that fact. So, another character of color suffered a cut to their storyline, only this time with a real life consequences of a white middle-aged showrunner throwing a temper tantrum because on of the show's the main actors was upset over his storyline was cut.

Edited by CooperTV.
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5 hours ago, CooperTV said:

He doesn't look white at all. He very much looks like a Filipino man, and he is one. He spoke about racism he experienced in Australia since he was a child. Again, saying that he "looks" white is invalidating his race and treating being white as a default ("he looks white therefore he is white"), and Bob Morley said that himself:


That was said at the height of racist hate he was receiving on Twiiter from people who hate Bellamy and also Bob for doing his job.

Clarke didn't struggle on screen the way Bellamy struggled with guilt since season 1, and her presumed guilt over Mt. Weather is still recognized more by the narrative (and therefore, by the viewer) than the same guilt and PTSD that Bellamy and Monty (two people of color) suffered after the same event. The show in season 3 positioned two progressive white girls (plus Octavia who "punished" her racial minority brother for his "misdeeds" for the viewers' enjoyment by beating him to teach him a lesson) against two xenophobic people of color (if you count Monty's mon and Monty himself, four). And the story of Arkadia (Pike, Bellamy and co) was largely cut from the show because the writers wanted Polis storyline about two white girls more.

Then Jason Rothenberg himself bullied Ricky Whittle off the show and also cut his Arkadia storyline, and Lincoln was killed halfway through the season because of that fact. So, another character of color suffered a cut to their storyline, only this time with a real life consequences of a white middle-aged showrunner throwing a temper tantrum because on of the show's the main actors was upset over his storyline was cut.

I'm very sorry he's been the target of racist hate but I guess I disagree with Bob then, because I don't think that saying he did not look visibly Filipino (to me, of course, I can only speak for myself) but looked white, has any kind of hurtful intention behind it.  I'm not implying any kind of judgment value here, simply that if someone had asked me to guess his nationality, I would have simply guessed he was caucasian and I'm betting other people would too.  Unless you're a pretty big fan or the actor is very high-profile, most people don't know a lot about the actors' backgrounds, I'd venture. YMMV naturally. 

As far as the politics and behind the scenes intentions of the showrunners, I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't think the bitterness needs to be aimed at the people here on these threads, I guess. When you start saying "everyone" hates so-and-so or judges so-and-so, which seems to happen a lot in your posts here, the everyone you're directly talking to is going to be very confused and somewhat annoyed if they're not doing or feeling anything like that.

Edited by taragel.
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It's almost hilarious how people will bend over backward to justify genocide and murder committed by their own white faves because the thought process behind it was "complex and sympathetic". Please tell me how complex Octavia's actions these past several episodes have been so I can understand why there's almost zero discourse surrounding how morally fucked up her actions are? I'd love to know why Octavia almost screwing over everyone at Polis by attacking Pike during an invasion because she couldn't wait half a fucking hour was so sympathetic and understandable? Or how Octavia killing an ambassador against the wishes of everyone, including Roan himself, was so complex? Beheading an innocent man because "family" when it means propping up a tyrannical rule? Wanting to be THE person to execute someone when there's already 300 other people who can take up that mantle? And every single act committed without a hint of remorse, but that's ok because she lost her boyfriend. It's not like Bellamy's actions were the result of him acting out of grief for the loss of his girlfriend, right? Oh wait. But I thought that didn't qualify as a proper excuse?

And hell, Bellamy still feels remorse for something he did a season ago and is actively seeking to atone for his sins. Clarke forgave herself for TonDC literally an episode after letting 300 allies be bombed. Lexa has never shown remorse for TonDC or her betrayal at Mt. Weather. Octavia has yet to show remorse for anything. And yeah, I've brought this up before but I'll continue to bring it up many times yet.

And you know, at least fans of Bellamy don't pretend he never did anything wrong, unlike fans of other characters who always fall back on "complexity" and "good intentions" as an excuse.

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The-100-Murphy-Raven.jpg
 

Quote

 

The 100 has many amazing friendships, partnerships and romances, but the complicated relationship between Murphy and Raven is particularly powerful.

Raven Reyes and John Murphy have had a messed up yet wildly intriguing dynamic since he accidentally shot her in The 100 season 1 finale.

While Murphy wasn’t targeting Raven specifically, he had just tried to hang and kill Bellamy — her friend and ally — and had caused many of her other friends significant pain. It wasn’t surprising that, as she was bleeding out on the dropship floor and he stumbled into her rifle sights, she pulled the trigger.

 

How Murphy and Raven quietly developed one of the best dynamics on ‘The 100’

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Bob: I find it a very odd thing that she, I mean I can understand her blaming Bellamy, but when Lincoln was shot, there was still like Sinclair and Kane and Bryan and Miller… every one of those guys were there and everyone left and said it was okay. And yet she blames Bellamy when Bellamy was the only person who could possibly save Lincoln and she refused to take him. So they didn’t talk about it, I guess, but it’s a really tough decision and I think in the last couple of episodes, she’s blaming him for it. […] There’s a gray area here. I’d like to kinda move past that, I’d like them to move past it because it’s, uh, I don’t know, I felt like it was a real sticking point for me story-wise. Like Bellamy was the only person who could’ve come to help and you left him there and beat him up. You left him chained inside a cave… after he’s done, obviously bad things, but he was trying to make amends and he didn’t get the chance to do that and then he’s blamed for those things he’s trying to achieve but never had the chance to do so. So, I don’t know, it’s kinda… hypocritical in a way, I guess? I don’t know. I would like to see them move past that and develop a relationship, but whether that happens, we’ll just have to wait and see.

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