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S01.E11: Election Day 2016.05.08

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yes. I think the show has definitively established that Nina sucks as a detective.

They made that very clear by having continuously failing while the Hank, a pedophile accused of the crime was able to point them in the right direction after the agents failed for years.

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9 hours ago, backformore said:

How did the reporter find the waitress who was Ben's mom?  Was that ever explained?

No, and I have no idea who she did it. That reporter isn't as bad as Nina, but she's not the most competent investigator I've ever seen.

9 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Jane said there was no phone service out there, not cell or landline.

The waitress said it was Social Services that put her son in foster care when she went to jail. The question is, was Doug her boyfriend and Ben's father, as several viewers have speculated?

I don't think so, because wasn't Doug with Jane since they were in high school? I thought that's what she told the FBI guy.

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

If the foster system is so fucked up (I'll believe you guys, I don't have experience with it, thank god), there probably is or could conceivably be an internet site for parents who have lost their kids.  Like Petfinder.com.  So Bridey just had to google a sec to find, "I'm Sally, I work at Joe's Truck Stop on I-95. I lost my Ben to foster care in 1998 when he was two.  Please find me, Ben!"  

I'm trying.  

I saw a 20/20 episode that was devoted to people finding long lost relatives. The big one was a guy who'd been abandoned at a church as a baby and wanted to find his real life parents. They had a private investigator who specialized in cases like that and found them. So, it's probably possible but would take more time. And also seems silly to bother with. Just print the article saying Adam is actually Ben and disappeared from a foster home at age 8. Then let the public read about it and come forward.

I'm surprised the foster home that lost Ben is still allowed to be in business. When the mother went looking for him, shouldn't they at least have a record of where his last foster home was? That should have prompted some kind of investigation.

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I thought this episode was quite disappointing.   They're relying on the cast to sell the story with the stupid writing and plot holes.  The actors do a good job in spite of the writers.   "Ben killed Adam" is the stupidest of the stupid plot twists.   I agree that the story is being dragged out.  I expect the finale to go at break neck speed to try to clean up this mess, or not.

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Nina said she had reported all of the foster home's numerous violations even before she confronted the foster father, so hopefully it's not in business now.

Since the agency was continuing to pay the foster father to care for Ben, it would have records showing where he was placed. But, "They're in storage... It may take awhile." Even then, investigating a supposed runaway (per the foster father) from several years ago may not have been a priority for an agency so overworked that it doesn't follow up on current cases. Note that last year, Arizona had thousands of abuse reports that were marked "not investigated."

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On the question of whether Pocky is Waitress's boyfriend and Ben's father, didn't Ben say that he was born in Minnesota? If that's true, how did he wind up in Maine? And why is Ben's mother in Maine now too?

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3 hours ago, Bobbin said:

I think Nina lost any chance of ever again asking Ben or the Warrens anything when she tried to badger Ben into ID'ing Doug in the lineup, which would make an identification inadmissable in court anyway, as any rational cop would know. John told her on the way out to stay away from his family.

That was a convenient bit of writing but I wouldn't think John gets to dictate whom Nina can interview in an active investigation.    

10 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

On the question of whether Pocky is Waitress's boyfriend and Ben's father, didn't Ben say that he was born in Minnesota? If that's true, how did he wind up in Maine? And why is Ben's mother in Maine now too?

She's in New Hampshire, I noticed on the truck stop sign when Bridey left.  Still not Minnesota, though.

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3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, I know it's just me, but the most unrealistic thing that happened in the episode in my opinion was the waitress telling reporter girl that since she eats like a bird, everything was on her.  Um, no?  First of all, reporter girl was there for hours, drank coffee, obviously ate something, and a less than minimum wage former con waitress (less than minimum wage because 'tips' are supposed to make up the difference) not only pays for reporter's meal, but gives up a tip as well.  Nope, not going to happen.

Typically when a waitress or bartender buys/comps someone a drink (or meal), the customer tips well, not stiffs her/him.  

It was a stupid line, though.  I assume it was meant to show more of Bridey's Super Seduction Powers.  All she has to do is put on a fuzzy pink sweater and bat her eyelashes and all the girls and boys are dying to spill their guts, spread their legs and comp her pie.  

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On 5/9/2016 at 0:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Next week is the finale, right? I wonder if they'll at least wrap it up, or if they are going to try to find some way to keep this going for another season.

Someone told me that they read that the writers said there will be answers to all the questions this season but that they have a set-up for another season if they get it. Which is why I assume Adan will be revealed as alive in the finale.

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I am clearly in the minority but I disagree that nothing happens on the show and it is just a lot of red herrings and dropped stuff. Many episodes did reveal more and more of the mystery.

I agree. Honestly the pacing is not one of this show's many problems at all imo.

I don't care how much of an UO it is I actually enjoy this show. I would like to see it get picked up tbh. 

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I don't care how much of an UO it is I actually enjoy this show. I would like to see it get picked up tbh. 

So do I. As I said, I've enjoyed this show far more than Quantico, which I was so looking forward to and checked out of after five episodes and every promo I've seen since convinces me I made the right choice. Yes, I would like Bridey killed and the show certainly has its flaws like many shows do but I do think it's pretty compelling and rarely ever drags for me. I too wish it'd get picked up but by all accounts the ratings are terrible and ABC is not a network that often gives chances to middling shows. I am also curious where they would go in Season 2. If, as I suspect, Adam is revealed to be alive, I guess that should take a whole season, between everyone finding him, revealing what happened to him after Doug took him from the bunker, etc. 

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 0:42 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Enjoyed the Danny and Willa scene, and when they started cracking up over her coming out to him.  It's nice when they act like normal siblings, and not the messed up individuals they have become.

That was the first and only time I've liked Willa.  I don't know if it's the character or the actress (or both) but I find her completely insufferable so it was nice to see a human side to Willa after all.

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We're really enjoying the show, too.  The more you care about a show, the more the writing flaws bother you, though.  I feel like if season one's story had to rely on so many unlikely things, any future seasons would probably be really ridiculous.  Few shows get better with age, I think.  But we'd watch a second season, at least until it was too ridiculous.  I like the cast.  I'm going to assume the press is right and the Adam story ends here.  

I gave Quantico 9 eps and was considering trying to finish it until I noticed there were 20 total.  I figure that would be an exercise in frustration.  

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16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'm surprised the foster home that lost Ben is still allowed to be in business. When the mother went looking for him, shouldn't they at least have a record of where his last foster home was? That should have prompted some kind of investigation.

Not only that, but foster care is set up as a temporary placement until either 1) the biological parent gets their act together and re-gains custody, or 2) custody is taken away or given up voluntarily and the child is up for adoption.   The mom would have been notified if that had happened.  This mom didn't seem like a strung-out addict.  If she had been actively looking for Ben, she would have been contacting state officials to find out where he was.   Parents with jobs can and do get their kids back, all the time. 

BUT - it's only a TV show, so I guess I have to decide to enjoy it and not scrutinize it so much.

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How did the reporter find the waitress who was Ben's mom?  Was that ever explained?

It seems like her investigation would hinge on knowing Ben's last name and I'm not sure how she would have learned that. It was Nina who found the foster home Ben ran away from, not Bridey. And I doubt you could simply call the foster organization (?) and say "Hey, give me a list of all the eight-year old kids named Ben who were in foster care 11 years ago." 

Another plot hole I guess. They never really did clear up the DNA test. At this point I'm assuming Willa took Ben's hair to the guy who ran the test before she changed her mind about trying to pass Ben off as Adam, without bothering to tell the DNA guy the deal was off. I'm still not sure how the guy she gave the hair to managed to be the one the hospital turned to as soon as Ben showed up claiming to be Adam. Seems like the normal procedure would be to call the family and ask for DNA samples to run a comparison. Not trust the word of some guy who shows up and goes "Oh look I just happen to have hair samples from the very boy who has been missing for the past ten years." That seems super suspicious.

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I'm guessing the DNA test could've gone down like this... Once Ben decided to pose as Adam, Willa takes the hair snippet to the lab and tells her contact there to use it as Adam's 10-year-old DNA sample, and bribes him with the business idea Claire mentioned in the press conference.  So when the police ordered a DNA test, they sent their own actual Adam sample from 10 years ago and one they took from Ben to that lab but the doc used the one Willa provided instead of Adam's.  So it was a match.   

I still want to know about his death, though.  Guilt?  Murder?  Random coincidence? 

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22 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, I know it's just me, but the most unrealistic thing that happened in the episode in my opinion was the waitress telling reporter girl that since she eats like a bird, everything was on her.  Um, no?  First of all, reporter girl was there for hours, drank coffee, obviously ate something, and a less than minimum wage former con waitress (less than minimum wage because 'tips' are supposed to make up the difference) not only pays for reporter's meal, but gives up a tip as well.  Nope, not going to happen.

Hee, this is funny!  I presumed that the waitress didn't pay for it but rather didn't ring it up so the diner had to pay for it.  What I thought unrealistic was that the reason was "eating like a bird."  Everyone gets served the same amount whether they pick at it like a bird or wolf the whole thing down, like I would.  I guess she just ate pie but still, she wasn't saving the diner money to order something small and nothing else.  Like you said, she was there for hours.  They still have to pay for the waitress' time and for the pie.  And she took up a booth that they could have been using for more business.

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As long as we're nit-picking the diner (hee) - what kind of diner doesn't even have a board with specials? I can see them not having a formal menu to hand out, but even the greasiest of greasy spoons has some kind of chalk board or poster showing what they serve. Not "you tell me what you want and I'll tell you if we have it."

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Ben told willa that he had hurt Adam and that he hated him, didnt he? I think thats why Willa jumped to the conclusion that he killed Adam.

Im guessing Bridey found Ben's mom because of the information on the flash drive. Willa probably has all the information about Ben on there that she knows.

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What was incompetent detective  lady doing at the end of the show on the floor ( and please don't say trying to escape this show)?

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

As long as we're nit-picking the diner (hee) - what kind of diner doesn't even have a board with specials? I can see them not having a formal menu to hand out, but even the greasiest of greasy spoons has some kind of chalk board or poster showing what they serve. Not "you tell me what you want and I'll tell you if we have it."

Yeah, I was laughing at that.  Though in some shots I could see some menu items listed on like a display banner.  I think the writers were clunkily trying to make sure we knew this was a tiny little dive truck stop and Sally was a hard luck case.  Which I don't know why it was stressed because really any diner job is a sad career for a 35 year old woman (sorry, escaped service life myself at 29 or so).  And part of why she comped the pie, I think, is because the writers want us to like her so we'll see what a great mom she'll be to poor Ben once they're reunited.  And of course Bridey's Magic Powers.

3 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

What was incompetent detective  lady doing at the end of the show on the floor ( and please don't say trying to escape this show)?

Ha.  She dropped the bottle cap she was fiddling with (I guess this is her only case, ever) and when she went to pick it up she found this tiny, neat little pile of dirt, presumably from Doug's shoe.  Which I imagine she'll take to some forensics lab that will point to Clemons' location.  

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@Kiki620 had a theory upthread re: what Meyers found under the table:

On May 9, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Kiki620 said:

When Nina dropped her cap under the table, as she was bending down I said to my husband, "oh look, here's some dirt from Pocky's shoe that will be so rare and specific that it will lead me to the exact plot of land that his cabin fortress is located on!"  

This show alternates between making things so ridiculously easy and ridiculously hard.  I don't get it.

I thought the same—very Bones.

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On 5/9/2016 at 10:08 AM, JapMo said:

 

Loved the dialogue between Danny and Willa when he's saying "are you crying or are you laughing?"  That was so genuine...nice bit of writing.

I thought it seemed genuine too.  Almost too genuine.  Maybe "Willa" was supposed to be crying, but started laughing at the ridiculousness of the many holes in this story, and they decided to keep it in.  :-)

 

On 5/9/2016 at 10:37 AM, Kiki620 said:

 

I was cheering when the skate boarding kid had on Pocky's jacket.  Anything that makes her look like a fool pleases me!

 

Oh, I so agree!  She is absurdly incompetent.   I think she's just awful in every way - not smart, not attractive, not good at her job, not to mention that she killed that guy & covered it up, and also slept with the father of a missing/dead child.  I would be so happy if she got killed off.  If there's another season (and I hope there will be), she really needs to be gone. 

Edited by DebbieM4. Reason: Removed extra quote box and prettied it up!
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22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It seems like her investigation would hinge on knowing Ben's last name and I'm not sure how she would have learned that. It was Nina who found the foster home Ben ran away from, not Bridey. And I doubt you could simply call the foster organization (?) and say "Hey, give me a list of all the eight-year old kids named Ben who were in foster care 11 years ago." 

Another plot hole I guess.

Remember, Bridey did download 3.5GB worth of crap from Willa's computer - so it IS possible Ben's last name is somewhere in that mess. At the very least, in her google search history - 'cause you know Willa googled.

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She dropped the bottle cap she was fiddling with (I guess this is her only case, ever) and when she went to pick it up she found this tiny, neat little pile of dirt, presumably from Doug's shoe.  Which I imagine she'll take to some forensics lab that will point to Clemons' location.  

Yeah and . . . huh? Please don't tell me you can take dirt to a lab and have them pinpoint the exact location it came from. Like there's something so unique about the dirt on Doug's cabin property it could only come from there and nowhere else in the world. {headsmack}

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:08 AM, JapMo said:

  Show of hands....how many of you would just stand there like Claire did when Hank said he was also "watching" Adam and not slap the sh*t out of him?  Just the thought that he was leering at her kid should have made Claire want to beat his ass.

This episode was packed so full of frustration and/or stupidity, it's taking all my power not to engage the caps lock.

Take the above conversation.  When your neighbor says "your kid used to go to school every day at 8:15," WHO demands that information be supported by some sort of additional verification???  Verification that includes "I'm a pedo and used to watch him myself"?

I practically live on Mars and I know what time the school bus runs.  Lock me up.

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, iMonrey said:

 

That said, I think this particular episode demonstrated that this could have been a 10-part series rather than a 12-part (or 13?) because not a lot happened and what did happen didn't make a lot of sense.

Agree 100%.  A couple of weeks ago, I complimented this show for moving the plot along with jet fuel.  Is it possible the writers didn't know exactly how many episodes they'd ultimately have to work with?

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 2:43 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

We saw him quiet and sleeping on the monitor before she started thumbectomy.  

I think she wasn't holding him when Doug came home so they could have the big reveal, "I had the baby here alone with no car or phone, you asshole, that's why I'm bloody!"  

This dimwit is KILLING ME, right along with Agent FBI, who had to regain consciousness so he could prompt her to amputate his OTHER thumb.  It's a miracle her one brain molecule finally managed to come up with "childbirth" to explain the blood.

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:40 AM, MyAimIsTrue said:

That was the first and only time I've liked Willa.  I don't know if it's the character or the actress (or both) but I find her completely insufferable so it was nice to see a human side to Willa after all.

Oh, fuck Willa and her newly discovered comfort in the loving support of her brother.  All her long years of feeling isolated and "other" and she still has no single drop of sympathy for a kid who grew up chained in an underground hole.  Her singleminded goal to banish him (based on a premature conclusion, no less) not only mowed down the mother she's dedicated her life to shoring up, but ensures Ben never has a chance for that same unconditional acceptance Willa just found such a blessing.

*****************

Agent FBI:  sorry to say this, but maybe grit your teeth, change your pronouns and don't count on the people with the collection of underground bunkers to be LGBT-friendly. 

Edited by candall.
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4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah and . . . huh? Please don't tell me you can take dirt to a lab and have them pinpoint the exact location it came from. Like there's something so unique about the dirt on Doug's cabin property it could only come from there and nowhere else in the world. {headsmack}

My prediction is they'll find some kind of pine tree sap or whatever in that dirt from pine trees that only grow in Sappy Pines, VT.  And then some genius will say, "Sappy Pines, VT?  I saw that in one of the files...(frantic rifling through paper files instead of computer search)...here it is, d'oh, Jane, Jane's parents owned a cabin in Sappy Pines, VT!  And now Jane owns it!  How did we ever miss that when we zeroed in on Jane and Doug?"

Something cliche like that.

Edited by izabella.
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I'm confused.  If next weeks episode is the finale and ties up loose ends, what would the storyline be if the show is renewed?

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It would be a new story but surrounding the same Warren family, I assume.  I'm sure they would drop some seeds in the finale for it, if we haven't seen them already.  All they have to do is put in one intriguing scene at the very end... Maybe some mystery man stabs Bridey in an alley.  Well, it'd probably be something viewers would have actual interest in learning the story about, though.  I would hope for his sake it'd heavily involve Gilford's character, since he was pretty wasted (ha, in more ways than one) in this season. 

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On 5/9/2016 at 11:13 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

A real cop could get to the bottom of it .

On 5/9/2016 at 1:27 PM, iMonrey said:

Yes. I think the show has definitively established that Nina sucks as a detective.

Yeah, Nina is the  exact opposite of a "real cop".  Hitchcock and Scully from Brooklyn 99 are better detectives than she is.

 

On 5/9/2016 at 0:22 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

he didn't knock because he didn't want to wake her

Well, she's not his sister any more, so maybe he was hoping she was wearing less than PJs.

 

On 5/10/2016 at 6:48 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

All she has to do is put on a fuzzy pink sweater and bat her eyelashes and all the girls and boys are dying to spill their guts, spread their legs and comp her pie.  

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

 

On 5/10/2016 at 6:34 AM, truthaboutluv said:

ABC is not a network that often gives chances to middling shows.

The  new president of ABC has also said that she is dedicated to diversity -- and I don't think Nina will count for much on an otherwise all-white show.

 

On 5/11/2016 at 11:28 PM, DebbieM4 said:

I think she's just awful in every way - not smart, not attractive, not good at her job

I do have to disagree with you there.  I think Margot Bingham is very attractive, just the the character she plays sucks.

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Jane did cut one thumb off. That means he should be able to get that cuff off. With his released hand he should be able to cut the other one off by himself, or try, even with his thumb gone. Obviously not great but it is life and death. After all there was the guy stuck in a rock crevice who cut off his own arm a few years ago. Even if he can't do it without his thumb they should show him trying. Unless, of course, Jane took the pruner with her.

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If she could cut the thumb off, why not just try to cut through the handcuff or break it apart, and why couldn't he do it himself anyway? 

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I can believe that a thumb-less hand fresh from a home amputation would be pretty useless with a hacksaw or pruners.  I'm fine with not seeing him try.  I've seen plenty of that whole disgusting situation.  Did you notice they showed the thumb in a ziplock?  Gross.  

Jane did try to hacksaw the chain but they said it wasn't working.  

The silliest thing to me is what someone above mentioned... typically if you get one hand out of a cuff you're free, because the usual way to cuff someone to a wall would involve slipping one set of cuffs behind a pipe or something.  But apparently Doug used TWO sets of handcuffs, each locked to a giant chain that was affixed to the wall somehow?  Pretty elaborate for a cabin dungeon.  Maybe he brought Ben and Adam on vacations there.  

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I would think the handcuffs themselves have a short chain connecting one cuff to the other.  Should be fairly simple to cut that small chain instead of trying to hack through a big one. 

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I guess we don't have to worry about this show.  It's on the just released cancelled list.

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On 5/9/2016 at 10:57 PM, Madding crowd said:

I meant for the storyline in general. It would be very difficult for her to find out who a foster child had once belonged to and if it was so easy for her, why didn't the mother know where her son was? Bridey doesn't seem all that smart to me so it was a leap for me. A child that was taken away at two years old would have closed records at least until an adoption was made or he was returned to his parent. You cannot just look up the names of fostered kids. Mostly, I just find it too much of a surprise moment which this show has too many of. 

Clearly she had sex with someone who had access to the list.

On 5/9/2016 at 6:07 AM, Free said:

The Mob Doctor?

Wasn't Zach Gilford also in that show?

1. I guess this episode stops any lingering doubts about whether Hank is really a pedophile or if "he just was caught peeing near a playground".

2. Once again the Willa/Danny scene is my favorite, though I think she should have protested a little before admitting she was gay. I think that would have been more in keeping with the character. IIRC, when confronted about fAdam by Claire she first lied and then came clean.  

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1. I guess this episode stops any lingering doubts about whether Hank is really a pedophile or if "he just was caught peeing near a playground".

Seriously, there was still a question about Hank's pedophilia urges...really? We got a whole backstory of Hank refusing to open the door to his mother's piano student and his basically telling his mother that the child was safer outside than inside with him. The man was taking some shot to basically make himself sexually impotent and what, he was doing that for kicks? Or are some still pretending that it wasn't child porn Nina found on his computer?

Edited by truthaboutluv.
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I just assumed the reporter got the info on Ben's mom from Willa's computer. 

And cutting off the thumb was indeed stupid.

Still not sure if Ben killed Adam or not. That was quite a leap. 

 

So what are the chances now that it has been canceled we will get anything tied up? None.

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2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Seriously, there was still a question about Hank's pedophilia urges...really? 

I don't think there was any question.  At least I haven't seen that question here since waaayyyy back in the season.  

1 hour ago, scribe95 said:

So what are the chances now that it has been canceled we will get anything tied up? None.

They said this story gets wrapped up Sunday.  

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I see mention of young Ben having run away from foster care, but wasn't he pretty young to be considered a runaway? Can an 8-year old be a runaway? Or did I miss something where it turns out he was older when he went missing from foster care? And, while I'm asking questions, how does Ben being in foster care fit with the backstory he told Willa, about never having seen the sunrise? That actually fits better with the waitress's story about losing her child at two (am I remembering that right?). Is Ben just a lying liar who lies, or is there some way to make sense of all this?

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I've seen shows before where people break their thumbs to get out of handcuffs and it made me wonder why the agent didn't just have Jane break his thumbs or hand rather than cutting them off.

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1 hour ago, freebie said:

I see mention of young Ben having run away from foster care, but wasn't he pretty young to be considered a runaway? Can an 8-year old be a runaway? Or did I miss something where it turns out he was older when he went missing from foster care? And, while I'm asking questions, how does Ben being in foster care fit with the backstory he told Willa, about never having seen the sunrise? That actually fits better with the waitress's story about losing her child at two (am I remembering that right?). Is Ben just a lying liar who lies, or is there some way to make sense of all this?

He didn't run away.  The asshole foster parent who was just using kids to make money just used that as an excuse for him disappearing from his care.  At two he went into foster care and at 8 he was abducted by Doug.  

I guess the sunrise comment was hyperbole or he really didn't recall having seen one before age 8.  Or maybe he hadn't.  The foster dad didn't look like someone who'd be into backyard campouts or anything you'd need to be up before dawn to do.

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On 5/12/2016 at 10:31 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

The silliest thing to me is what someone above mentioned... typically if you get one hand out of a cuff you're free, because the usual way to cuff someone to a wall would involve slipping one set of cuffs behind a pipe or something.  But apparently Doug used TWO sets of handcuffs, each locked to a giant chain that was affixed to the wall somehow?  

I don't recall if we saw how he was attached. I had been assuming they were not handcuffs but shackles, like in the tunnel-dungeon. So it's not one pair where the two hands are connected. I thought it was more like two separate chains, attached to a pipe or somehow otherwise affixed to the wall. So one thumb goes, only one hand is free because the other is independently attached to the structure.

Or perhaps Doug has been down this road before and learned his lesson about separately affixing wrists for just this reason: don't just have to break one chain/cuff/hand; have to have the strength and means to do it twice, reduces risk of escape.

Edited by theatremouse.
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