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S05.E25: Now / S05.E26: Forever 2015.12.17

Now:

Hope of ending the troubles begins to fade as the heroes struggle to rebuild the Barn in the face of mounting obstacles. And while Dwight is tempted by a surprise gift, Nathan finds himself considering a devastating sacrifice.

 

Forever:

Nathan struggles to return to Haven as Dwight reconsiders his future in the series finale, which also finds Audrey coming to a terrifying decision about how she might finally save the town from Croatoan.

 

Exeunt omnes.

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Before diving in one last time, I just wanted to say how much fun it's been hanging out with you guys here (and over at TWOP). Though until recently I lurked far more than I ever posted, since the beginning I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments and observations, and all of the conversations sparked on these boards - many of which were more thought-provoking than the show itself. In all honesty, you guys are the reason I've kept watching even though this season has been… disappointing. So thanks everyone! *group hug*

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You all have been great. Sending the love.

 

Let's have a wake and pretend that S5 (and a large part of 4) never happened, and celebrate Haven for what it was.

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Geez, it has been painful watching the show slink off oh. so. slowly. They should have worked out this ending after letting Audrey go off with the barn in S3 and then had her return, exorcise Mara--no need for William, Mom and Dad--go off for the final Trouble-removal, and then had the coda we had here. Done with head held high in four seasons. And Duke, Dave and Vince could have stayed alive.

 

I did enjoy seeing the reactions of Troubled from years past getting their cures. Hope to see you guys around the site as the New Barn floats us away from this forum.

Edited by Cardie.
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For those of use who have read a certain Stephen King book (which I refuse to directly spoil for others at any time), pancakes=hot chocolate.

 

I caught the Rev-like cameo, and of course Chris losing his trouble, and then smiling when he got himself slapped and realized his trouble was gone.

 

Did we know the drawing girl (forget her name, sorry) had a baby, or was that just a random carriage there in the station when she gave Nathan the drawing of Audrey?

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Did we know the drawing girl (forget her name, sorry) had a baby, or was that just a random carriage there in the station when she gave Nathan the drawing of Audrey?

 

Wasn't her baby.  That's Gloria's grandson, who she's now raising because Duke killed his dad to end their family trouble... (Random people dropped dead every time the baby cried in a trouble no incarnation of Audrey could ever cure.) 

 

So we never learned Vince's trouble...unless it was to have the disappearing tattoo so he could control the Guard, which...lame.

I hate the ending Duke got.  He was one of the original 3; he should have gotten a happy ending. 

 

All in all, I feel kind of 'meh' about this whole loooonnnnngggg season.

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Mark, that baby was Gloria's grandchild from the previous season. Her step son died to save him.

 

Still digesting the eps, will post more later.

 

Sorry, Anstar posted at the same time.

Edited by kat165.
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OK, guys, spill. I want to be totally spoiled before I risk watching.

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I think having Audrey come back at the end cheapened her sacrifice of providing "love" to the new barn.   But I'm more a pragmatist than a romantic.  

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Very flat final. They didn't even bother to try to tie up a lot of the first 3 seasons loose ends. Guess they decided to just pretend those seasons never happened.

 

A lot of people suggested the ending scene early on in the series so not that much of a surprise really.

Edited by BlueJay81.
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Wow! So, I don't mind admitting, I've shed a few tears - mostly for Duke of course but some too for all the other sacrifices. 

 

There was just so much Naudry love going on in this - a bit sick-making TBH but sentimentality was always going to be the order of the day for the series finale and yes, I did get caught up in the sad & the sweet.

 

I'm glad Duke got an heroic end on his own terms, although, of course, I would have much rather seen him survive to be pulling pints at the Gull or clambering about on the Rouge again. For it to be Nathan who did the deed was inevitable and I did appreciate the death scene in his arms and the whispered love you/thank you/goodbyes. My view of that scene was rather blurred!

 

Paige? and baby James?...yeah, well, that was always going to happen wasn't it - but it was nice I guess as a means for Nathan to 'move on' as Audrey had advised - there are going to be some interesting conversations in their married future together.

 

I still think the Shatner casting was terrible - in fact, the whole Croatoan/father storyline (and before that, the Charlotte/mother storyline) was stupid, poorly done and horribly drawn out. 

 

Questions (cos nobody else I know watched this show)...Can anyone answer why at the end there still appeared to be a barn with Vince and Dad at the helm? I thought the whole point was that it was no longer needed and once gone it would be gone forever. Also what was with Ghost!Duke? I mean, not that I didn't want to see him again but I just didn't get it...why was he able to come back? why could only Dwight see/hear him? 

 

It was a good show with a cute idea and some great characters at its heart. It went off course at times and I'm definitely glad it's ended now but I've enjoyed it. AO3 (and maybe others?) is the place to go if you want to keep the Haven love alive - the show is better in our imaginations than the show runners ever really allowed it to be beyond the early seasons.  

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AO3?

 

In some ways, I view any long-form fiction, particularly one that takes actual years to tell and involves central mysteries, as similar to Schrödinger's cat.  As the first part of the story unfolds, the possible paths it could take multiply, and these days the Internet manages to talk about and bond with them endlessly.  But, inevitably, the story passes its midpoint, mysteries start getting resolved, and eventually the waveform collapses when, when all has been told, you've effectively opened the box and found out whether the cat is alive or dead.  I felt the same way about how certain things were resolved in The Dark Tower.

 

On a less melancholy note, did anyone else think that Fake!Audrey looked like young Christina Applegate, particularly in the outdoor close-ups?  I think it was the way ER was opening her eyes wider or something.

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AO3?

 

 

Archive of Our Own - fan fiction site where there are some phenomenally talented writers indulging themselves in the Haven world. 

 

Fake!Audrey looked like young Christina Applegate...

 

 

Didn't know who she was - looked her up - and yes, she does. I also agree with you on the inevitability of the 'collapsing wave' of long story telling - shame though all the same.

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I am sad that this show is gone, even though it went off the rails this year. I guess the ending was OK, except for Duke. That was so awful, Duke should have had a happy ending. He just wanted to be a pirate! Love him so much! I knew that Audrey would find a way to come back but didn't expect it to be an incarnation of her that did not know Nathan.   

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So, was all the #SaveHaven campaigning when they announced the cancellation a hoax, or did they shoot alternate endings so they could either end or carry on? Because this seemed like a very definitive ending to the story, and they'd have had to trash at least two episodes worth of stuff in order to have something that allowed it to continue for another season. This seemed very much like they planned to end the series, not like an unexpected cancellation months after they wrapped shooting.

 

I liked it. I felt like it brought things full-circle and gave some closure. There were still some dangling threads that it would have been nice to get answers about, like why they bothered giving Nathan that complicated backstory about being someone else's son and why they needed to dig up the box of Chief rocks, but the main story was resolved in a bittersweet way.

 

I wonder if the bit with Shatner and Vince at the end was a riff on the way they used to end episodes of The Practice, with Shatner and Spader sitting and making snarky remarks.

 

It may have been sappy that "Paige" and her baby James (taking something of the essence of the original James who couldn't live outside the Barn?) showed up for Nathan to repeat the opening of the series, but otherwise it was going to be rather depressing for him, since he'd lost his father, his best friend, his lover, and the people who were like family for him. I guess he seemed pretty zen about the whole thing and was handling it well, so he's come a long way, but it was nice that he didn't end up utterly alone.

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Also what was with Ghost!Duke? I mean, not that I didn't want to see him again but I just didn't get it...why was he able to come back? why could only Dwight see/hear him?

 

I think Ghost Duke was an homage to the Nick Andros character in Stephen King's The Stand.  After his character was killed, he reappeared as a guide to the Tom Cullen character. 

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As to the Barn, since it needed love to power it, I am convinced that Shatner and Vince, after a month together, had fallen madly and deeply in love and wanted Audrey gone so they could make the beast with two backs. I cannot be the only one who thought the controller crystal looked like a glow-in-the-dark vibrator. Yeah...I said it.

 

Balfour was terrible in his possessed scene in the police station. He was great again once he was trouble whispered down, but the possessed acting was terrible. Worst I've seen him do and he has been the hands down best actor in the whole series. 

 

XeroxFakeAudrey (because let's not forget there is a real, actual Audrey Parker out there and she is hopefully happy with some guy named Brad, so OurAudrey is really FakeAudrey) was so obviously not Audrey because of her lack of curiosity.

 

Shat was a terrible choice. Just terrible. His change of mind from "I love you and will destroy the world to save my daughter" to "Yeah, I won't die for you, but I will go hang out in the Barn for you" was silly and unbelievable.

 

Of course Duke was going to make the ultimate sacrifice. OF COURSE HE WAS. He was always going to be the sacrifice, the real sacrifice, not the fake sacrifice that Nathan made (I will give up Audrey, only I get her back again) or Audrey made for Nathan (I will go into the Barn to save Haven, only I get to go back to be with Nathan). I hate that sort of meaningless sacrifice in a show. It's annoying and trite.

 

Nathan's two and a half minute long speech of love would have been moving if I hadn't been rolling my eyes so hard at the TV going, "She's coming back, you useless idiot, there's ten minutes left in the show."

 

On TWoP didn't people used to bang on about the Box 'o Chief Rocks being super significant and swear it was going to come into play? I always thought that was codswallop, but having those rocks come to life singing Bridge Over Troubled Waters would have been preferable to this ending. 

 

Because...okay...ready for it...Nathan is about to start banging a THIRD version of the same woman. And that is gross. Just fucking gross. He banged Sarah who he had known for about ten minutes. Then he banged Audrey, who wasn't an original personality either. Now he is going to bang Paige, yet another version with her own set of memories. So fucking disgusting. As long as a woman looks close enough to Audrey, has some inherent kindness or some desire to help people, Nathan is down to fuck. And you know, that body belongs to Mara. 

 

It's like in BSG when Helo banged Boomer thinking she was Sharon. It wasn't okay. It wasn't right. She wasn't Sharon. He felt as if he had betrayed Sharon, and Sharon felt betrayed. That's how it works when you bang a copy of the woman you "love." They aren't interchangeable. People aren't interchangeable. The idea that they are disgusts me.

 

I'd prepped myself for it. I had, but still, I threw up a bit in my mouth when Nathan looked under the hood of the car with his, "OMG, Imma gonna get me some Audreybot again" look. 

 

I really wanted Dwight to look a Ghost!Duke and say, "Will it work if I believe you are real too?" Or Gloria to have mentioned that Duke left everything to his daughter, Jean, everything to be sold and the money put in trust so she would never have to return to Haven. Or even a Ghost!Jennifer or Ghost!Evie to fade off with him. Oh no. He gets to flip Dwight off and go off alone. Great. Fantastic. Because I was so invested in Dwight's daughter that it was important that she get a happy ending and Duke not. What the fuck ever.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the show ended when Audrey went in the Barn at the end of S3.

Edited by BlackberryJam.
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It may have been sappy that "Paige" and her baby James (taking something of the essence of the original James who couldn't live outside the Barn?) showed up for Nathan to repeat the opening of the series, but otherwise it was going to be rather depressing for him, since he'd lost his father, his best friend, his lover, and the people who were like family for him. I guess he seemed pretty zen about the whole thing and was handling it well, so he's come a long way, but it was nice that he didn't end up utterly alone.

 

I'm thinking that baby is the reincarnation of the original James's soul, which was somehow preserved through the destruction of the original barn.  Hopefully he'll have better taste in girlfriends than he did his first go-round.

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Thanks all - these episodes shall remain forever unwatched by me.

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My first reactions to the finale in no particular order:

 

- WTF was that?

- That was the crappiest piece of crap that ever crapped on its audience.

- I invested six years of my life in this show for this?

 

So. I did like seeing a few past characters realize their Troubles were gone, and I also liked Audrey's speech to possessed Duke about destiny and choosing who you are. I thought that was a nice bit, and I'm glad that Duke came back to himself. And I'm truly not surprised they killed him, not one bit. And I'm also not one bit surprised that N&A got the Happily Ever After ending. I'm puzzled why Dwight and not Duke was selected for the secondary happy ending though. Seriously, Duke's been on since the beginning, and he's the only reason I've continued watching since season 2 when it became apparent to me that all plot continuity and arc-story was complete and utter bullshit - yet Duke and by extension his fans (like me) get royally screwed because why, exactly, writers?

 

And why did Dwight's daughter come back to life after a Trouble-caused death, and not Duke, Gloria's son, Dave, Jennifer, The Rev, The Chief, etc etc etc? Did they just pull the name of a dead character out of a hat when deciding who to bring back for the end? WTF?

 

So yeah, on top of Duke getting the short end of the stick in this mess of a show, and all of the many, many other characters who have died in six seasons worth of this thing (really, has anyone ever done a count?), they decide to go out on a romcom meet-cute with Nathan and NotAudrey to sappy 70s crap music, with a sting of Statler and Waldorf, I mean Vince and the Shat, cutely narrating The Greatest Twu Wuv Story Ever? Fuck you, Show.

 

I'm going to need a lot of time and a heaping cup of selective denial before I can even think about rewatching this series in the future. So disappointing. Not surprising, but still disappointing.

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Not counting Duke's death, I loved the finale.  I thought it was perfect.  The ending, with Paige (in the same color car and with the same song playing on the radio from the pilot) meeting Nathan with baby James in the backseat was wonderful.  She and Nathan will get to raise their son together this time.

 

I'm very disturbed with Duke's death though.  It was brutal and heartbreaking.  Nathan being the guy with the tattoo, just heartbreaking.

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Firstly, I want to second everyone who said this forum has been a joy. A place to enjoy the show and then, slowly and inevitably a place to vent.

 

Final thoughts.

 

Nothing will cap this show's lack of self-awareness more than two things:

 

1. Nathan saying he didn't want a copy because he wanted the "real Audrey Parker". Was breathtaking in its irony. Because he can have the real Audrey Parker and not a copy if he wants to - she's a brunette FBI agent with memory problems. I'm sure if he left now he could find her. And he was perfectly happy impregnating a copy of Parker as well. And then Paige showed up and... yep, perfectly happy with a copy.

 

2. Nathan killing Duke. Which I will deal with below.

 

 

I'm very disturbed with Duke's death though.  It was brutal and heartbreaking.  Nathan being the guy with the tattoo, just heartbreaking.

 

Or it would have been if Nathan didn't always secretly (and not so secretly) want to kill Duke. He even went and got that tattoo so he could fulfil the death prophecy when he killed Duke. Which he got to do in the end. So this came across as less heartbreaking and more Nathan wish-fulfillment. As angry as I'll be over what they've done to Duke's character, I'll remain forever furious about how they've assassinated Nathan's. Having Audrey crying and telling Duke she loved him while the guy she chose over him choked him to death was just... I'm speechless. Not angry, just sad that this show came to this. And I'm left with Nathan and whatever-iteration-of-the-Mara-body-he's-with who are so unlikable at this stage. I don't care what happens to them.

 

My first reactions to the finale in no particular order:

 

- WTF was that?

- That was the crappiest piece of crap that ever crapped on its audience.

- I invested six years of my life in this show for this?

 

- WTF that was, was nonsensical. And that's a big call for a show about interdimensional beings creating superpowers in humans to be harvested and being stopped by dated representations of agricultural imagery.

- I'm going to monologue and chew scenery and murder people and perform illegal medical experiments on them and condemn generations to misery for REASONS and now I'm... going to stop and go away. See ya! And the final scene will be me jovially laughing like some genial sky father looking down, lovingly, on my daughter.

- Me too. And while a show like Continuum lost the plot and managed to drag it back for a good, solid finale this did not. I may watch parts of Seasons 1 and 2 for nostalgia now and then but I can't imagine this didn't ruin those too.

 

Also, what's the point of the Barn if the person has to go into it willingly? Does that mean Mara walked in willingly? Because I don't believe that for a second. And surely if that was the case, Charlotte wouldn't have been trying to build one. I mean, she would know they needed Croatoan in it willingly, right?

 

As for the last twenty minutes... hey, did you know that Audrey and Nathan love each other? They love each other, you guys. They love each other. Audrey loves Nathan and Nathan loves Audrey. And they love each other. And meanwhile, on Haven, Audrey and Nathan love each other. Just in case you didn't know by now. Oh wait, Nathan loves Paige. Sorry, my bad.

 

Nice points:

The scene with everybody losing their Troubles was great. And Chris is no longer adored. I liked that little detail.

 

Nitpicks:

James got out of the Barn and grew up, didn't he? I mean, he went back in but as an adult? Why is he a baby?

 

Why would Paige fall in love with Nathan once she finds out she's a replica of his dead girlfriend? That's Vampire Diaries level creepy.

 

The armory was the wrong choice. The Barn was nice in that it was appropriate imagery for that place and the era and because Croatoan was planning to harvest the Troubles. But to embody Haven and the show, it should have been the remaining lighthouse.

 

Dwight got his daughter back. Because

 

I was so invested in Dwight's daughter that it was important that she get a happy ending and Duke not. What the fuck ever.

 

 

Exactly.

Edited by AudienceofOne.
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I'm so furious and sad and heartbroken and wtf even kind of finale was that. Whyyyyyyy did I start watching this show?

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Thanks all - these episodes shall remain forever unwatched by me.

 

Allow me to suggest watching the first parts of the denouement, in the police station and with Gloria. There's a nice little surprise in there.

 

Also, what's the point of the Barn if the person has to go into it willingly? Does that mean Mara walked in willingly? Because I don't believe that for a second. And surely if that was the case, Charlotte wouldn't have been trying to build one. I mean, she would know they needed Croatoan in it willingly, right?

The armory was the wrong choice. The Barn was nice in that it was appropriate imagery for that place and the era and because Croatoan was planning to harvest the Troubles. But to embody Haven and the show, it should have been the remaining lighthouse.

 

Mara, of course, didn't go in willingly unless they tricked her.  Part of the rehab deal, though, was that the subsequent incarnations did go in willingly once they had "recharged with love".  And the original plan wasn't going to involve Croatoan (who was trapped in the void), it was going to use the æther core to power the barn.  Croatoan (I wonder why we never learned his original name), due to the æther he had absorbed, is serving as the substitute core.

 

I don't dispute that the lighthouse would have been a better choice; I just want to know what that actual tower is so DC can use it (CGI out the windows) if they ever do a Doctor Fate movie.

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Mara, of course, didn't go in willingly unless they tricked her.  Part of the rehab deal, though, was that the subsequent incarnations did go in willingly once they had "recharged with love".  And the original plan wasn't going to involve Croatoan (who was trapped in the void), it was going to use the æther core to power the barn.  Croatoan (I wonder why we never learned his original name), due to the æther he had absorbed, is serving as the substitute core.

 

I get the Mara reincarnations had to go in willingly but there's nothing to suggest Mara did - or would have. It's not like they had to trick her through the front door. They had to create a situation where she was willing for the Barn to be built around her. Which I doubt.

 

And if consent was needed because Croatoan is now the core, by that argument the aether core would have needed to consent. Which....???

 

Whichever way you slice it, we needed to establish that Mara agreed to go into the Barn at some point for this to work. Don't get me wrong, it may be in there somewhere and I just missed it. I haven't been the most attentive viewer since Season 3.

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We were supposed to be so distracted by the super loving love of Nathan and Whomever-Nathan-Decided-Was-Audrey-ish-Enough-At-The-Moment-And-Looked-Like-Mara that we weren't supposed to ask those sorts of sense-y making questions.

 

I was just thinking of all the truly wasted female characters on this show. I mean sure, Duke got the worst of it in the end, but so many women exited: Jess Minnion, Hannah Driscoll, Julia Carr, the Real Audrey Parker or killed: Vanessa Stanley, Evidence Ryan, Claire Callahan, Jordan McKee, Jennifer Mason, all to keep Audrey as the undisputed Queen Bee of Haven Love. Pretty disgusting. 

 

Whenever they said "aether" in these last few episodes, all I heard was "magic fairy dust of MacGuffinry."

 

ETA: I am still smarting from a truly awful ending. And yeah, I think SyFy was aware of the level of bad they had to air, so they did a new episode on Thanksgiving and aired the final two at 10pm-midnight when Star Wars was premiering at that very same midnight. I bet the ratings were terrible for those final two episodes. AS THEY SHOULD BE.

 

2nd Edit: Excellent point on Nathan always wanting to and in fact planning to murder Duke. And they were in a police station with a ton of phone cords and rafters. Duke could have hung himself easy. Building Laverne could have helped. Not only did Duke not need to die because the Shat is about as decisive as a 14 year old, but there was no reason for Nathan to have to do it.

Edited by BlackberryJam.
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OK then. So Nathan and "Audrey" got a happy ending while Dave and Duke had to die and Vince gets to spend eternity with William Shatner in the barn. Bah humbug.

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Season three should have been the end. Let Howard explain everything--evil alien entity Mara created the Troubles and the Barn was her punishment/redemption--and Audrey go into the Barn. Then they could have the same Paige surprise for a coda, with Howard telling Vince and Dave some mumbo jumbo about the last iteration turning Mara good at last, so now no more Troubles ever. We didn't need two more seasons of likeable characters dying.

 

I am a Nathan-Audrey fan, if not particularly a shipper, and have never liked Eric Balfour in anything, so I'm not coming at this with the rooting interests that have made many viewers here so miserable. Nevertheless, on the basis of competent story-telling alone, the Stanton-McGuinness seasons have pretty much been a disaster. I'm avoiding any show they run in the future.

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Oh god did I hate this season. Like every single second of every episode, save for Jason Priestly getting slapped. That was a great little call back and nice closure.

 

I can't remember the last time I liked this show so I don't know why I kept watching. Maybe because I'm a huge King fan? Or maybe I thought it would get back on track. I wasn't even sure this was the last episode till I read here because I don't follow news for the show and haven't been a part of this forum.... which now is jogging my memory. I think my hatred of this show started around when twop closed because I did post there and couldn't be bothered when a chunk of us migrated here.

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You must be mistaken. Remember when Audrey tearfully said goodbye to Nathan and Duke, telling each one she loved them and the show finished after just three seasons when she entered the barn? What a pity there never was a season 4 or 5.

 

(Yes. The Jason Priestly moment (that didn't ever exist) was priceless.)

Edited by Snarkette.
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As far as I'm concerned, the show ended when Audrey went in the Barn at the end of S3.

 

 

 

You must be mistaken. Remember when Audrey tearfully said goodbye to Nathan and Duke, telling each one she loved them and the show finished after just three seasons when she entered the barn? What a pity there never was a season 4 or 5.

 

 

I think this is the best way to rewatch and enjoy the show. Watch the show up until then (it was a fun and relatively light watch until that point) and turn it off right after Audrey enters. Do what Phoebe's mom on Friends did with the movie Old Yeller -- just skip the bad stuff (for this shown aka seasons 4, 5, and 6.)

Yeah I know the last season was technically season 5b, but it aired a year after 5a. It really should have been season 6.

 

 

Nevertheless, on the basis of competent story-telling alone, the Stanton-McGuinness seasons have pretty much been a disaster.

 

This. So much this. 

Edited by TnTexas.
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OK. The above thoughts were my initial reaction. After having had a bit of time to think about things, I will say this. My overall opinion doesn't change. I think the series would have been much stronger from a storytelling perspective had it ended at season with Audrey simply going into the barn and then (as someone earlier mentioned) having the epilogue we had. Throw in a brief scene of Howard and Audrey having some kind of discussion about her not having to wait 27 years to come back and you would have had (in my opinion) the perfect ending.

Yes, I realize that would have left Haven still dealing with the Troubles, but you would have had Audrey/Paige there to help deal with them so things would remain even on that point. To me, the biggest advantage to ending it that way would have been that the tenor/atmosphere of the show wouldn't have been ripped to shreds. As it stands, Audrey still had to be barned in the end, making the events of the last two/three seasons a bit pointless. Yes, I suppose Haven wound up in a better place when all was said and done. After all, no one has to deal with Troubles anymore. Unfortunately though, the route chosen to get there pretty much destroyed the show in the process. Personally, I'd rather have had an ending that kept the show and its characters intact.

 

Having said that, I will say that I think the ending the writers wound up choosing fit with what the show had become. Personally, I would have preferred Duke and Dave to live. But given the circumstances they had chosen to write the characters into, I think it was the ending that the characters would have chosen. Had the show we ended up with been the show we started with, I'll admit that I probably would have been fairly satisfied with the ending we got. But it wasn't. The show we started out with was, in many ways, totally different from the one we were watching at the end.

It's that first show I feel was ill served by the ending that aired. That first show is the one I still mourn three years later. The second show? The one that just ended? Meh, it never really captured me. I kept watching, hoping the first one would reappear, but unfortunately it turned out to be weaker than Audrey. She was able to win her fight for survival against Mara, the intruder. Original Haven never did.

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It sounds like it's a good thing I stopped watching this season after the third episode. 

 

So Duke dies and Nathan gets another Audrey but not Audrey person to bang. I know Mara's not a good person but that is still her BODY!

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It sounds like it's a good thing I stopped watching this season after the third episode. 

 

So Duke dies and Nathan gets another Audrey but not Audrey person to bang. I know Mara's not a good person but that is still her BODY!

 

I've described this before as tone deaf and also as a lack of self-awareness. Because I find it hard to believe somebody ever thought this through.

 

They were always shooting for this idea that Nathan loved this inherent person, this fundamental personality common to all the personalities, So it didn't matter if she was Sarah or Lucy or Paige or Audrey: she was the Entity. An inherent human being he loved on a particularly fundamental level. And on paper that sounds romantic.

 

The problem with this is that we then met the inherent entity - Mara - and she was horrible. And it all became about him loving "Audrey" specifically, who was nothing more than a construct grafted onto a body. At that point, every time the show has him banging another version it just comes across as gross: a sexual proxy for the "real" person he loves.  When he had sex with Sarah, for example, it genuinely came across as him going, "a woman who looks like Audrey who won't turn me down! Yay!"

 

Having him love the same person reincarnated into a different body would have worked better IMHO. But that wasn't the storythey were telling so...

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Finally got to watch, and while I didn't hate it while watching it, my anger has grown in the aftermath as it's sunk in. Because it could have been so much better than it was.

 

Eric Balfour and Lucas Bryant both totally sold their scenes, however. Here's hoping they both move onto better things.

 

And I was glad Stan was around. And we got to see Laverne. (What happened to blond cop, aka LB's wife, btw? Was she in the second half of the season at all? Or did she die at some point and I completely forgot about it?)

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Just stopping in to say that I tried to watch some of the earlier seasons and recapture what I loved so much about the show, but knowing the ending ruined it for me. I can't even pretend that hot mess didn't happen.

Suck balls.

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I loved it all.  (Really don't get you guys.) I loved that the plot always twisted in unexpected directions. Strange things happened. My husband and I both loved it.

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2 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

I loved it all.  (Really don't get you guys.) I loved that the plot always twisted in unexpected directions. Strange things happened. My husband and I both loved it.

Did you binge it? I'm wondering how I would have felt with a binge vs watching it week by week for six years. I hated the final seasons (and the ending) so much I have never been able to rewatch it. 

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Same here, AudienceOfOne, I got so burnt out after six years of nonsensical plots and dropped stories that I haven’t been able to rewatch it either. Once in a while I think about going back to my favorite eps, but the idea of re-exposing myself to all that BS just makes me so disgusted I can’t do it.

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As someone who was disgusted by Nathan's 'love' for Audrey, I stopped really enjoying it around S3.

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On 12/18/2015 at 8:00 AM, Roselle said:

I still think the Shatner casting was terrible - in fact, the whole Croatoan/father storyline (and before that, the Charlotte/mother storyline) was stupid, poorly done and horribly drawn out. 

This had to be the worst plot arc of the whole series.  The show has always been anti-climatic in its plot twists, but this one made no sense.  I also didn't like the William plot either because it wasn't really built up enough for it to make much sense.  Then when he bumped into Nathan in the void and found out that Mara hooked up with Duke, that was when William decided that enough was enough?

 

On 7/13/2018 at 11:48 AM, BlackberryJam said:

As someone who was disgusted by Nathan's 'love' for Audrey, I stopped really enjoying it around S3.

Nathan and Audrey were an okay couple the first two seasons, but Nathan went crazy after that.  If Duke even looked at Audrey, Nathan went berserk, screaming his head off and jumping to wild conclusions.   While Nathan mellowed out in Season 4, the meta conversations about Audrey and Nathan using Duke whenever it worked for them were pretty spot on.  I think that's why I found Duke's death disappointing (even though it was foreshadowed from the beginning) - he was always getting used by someone and died trying to not be a puppet anymore, yet he couldn't even stop himself.  Nathan and Audrey got some deus ex machina happy ending, but Duke was faded into nothing.  I would have respected the ending more if Nathan lost Audrey and met someone new, carrying with him the memories of Audrey and Duke.

Edited by Avatar19.
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My issue was that Nathan loved Audrey's body, no matter which personality was inhabiting it. When Nathan slept with Sarah, it was a combination of sleeping with Audrey's twin sister and having sex with Audrey without her knowing it. I could never reconcile that as a love. Or healthy. Or in anyway not utterly disgusting.

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