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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Since I don't know what Previously.TV considers "spoilers" I thought I'd set up a thread to discuss all potential spoilers.  We should be able to freely discuss, interviews, previews, episode descriptions, Convention information, twitter reveals (Behind the Scenes photos taken by fans while show is on location) etc here without any worry of accidentally spoiling other fans.

Most recent information:

Deathstroke Sneak Peak 1 - http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/04/arrow-episode-218-deathstroke-sneak-peek.html

Deathstroke Sneak Peak 2 - http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/04/arrow-episode-218-deathstroke-sneak.html

 

Edited by Morrigan2575.
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Exciting! 

First Clip: Does this mean that Slade is going to try to Mirakuru a busload of convicts?

Also: Bus had "O.O.C." on it?  Is there ever an IC bus?

Second Clip: It's good to see Isabel working actively at something constructive rather than just being a mustache twirler... at least at first!

Edited by Zalyn.
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Pics from ep 19 The Man Under the Hood
http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/04/arrow-episode-219-man-under-hood.html

This pic should make some Felicity/Sara shippers happy. Also it looks like Sara's the one that gets injured.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k512/mhoye1214/pic_zps1f91b26b.jpg

This is thread designed specifically for Spoiller and Spoiler discussion there's no need to use Spoiler bars inside the thread as there's a warning in the thread title.

Okay, I wasn't sure how this place works.

Edited by Sakura12.
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Was just going to post the link. Mostly the lair stuff, nothing from Star Labs.

This is thread designed specifically for Spoiller and Spoiler discussion there's no need to use Spoiler bars inside the thread as there's a warning in the thread title.

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http://m.eonline.com/news/527254/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-glee-american-horror-story-teen-wolf-community-and-more?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin&dlvrit=51396

Spoiler from e-online.

Carson: So worried about Thea in tonight's Arrow! Slade is the worst!

Ugh, right?! But that's what makes him such a good villain. "I will say that Thea learns something pretty massive," boss Marc Guggenheim previews of tonight's outing. "And it will cause a tectonic shift in her relationship with Oliver." Uh-oh, sounds like secret daddy issues will be coming to light soon!

Willa Holland interview http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=51892

Promo for Man Under the Hood

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/04/arrow-episode-219-man-under-hood-promo.html

Edited by Morrigan2575.
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219 extended promo.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/04/arrow-episode-219-man-under-hood_3.html

 

Episode Description for 2.20

ARROW

“Seeing Red” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

ROY SPINS OUT OF CONTROL — The mirakuru sends Roy (Colton Haynes) into an uncontrollable rage and he unleashes on the city. After Roy’s deadly fight with a police officer, Oliver (Stephen Amell) realizes the mirakuru has taken over Roy completely and must figure out a way to stop him. Things get more complicated after Sara (Caity Lotz) declares that Roy is too far gone and the only way to stop him is to kill him. Meanwhile, Thea (Willa Holland) believes she can breakthrough to Roy so she goes on camera at Moira’s (Susanna Thompson) campaign rally to lure him to Verdant. Her ploy works but after Roy attacks Thea, Team Arrow unleashes on him. Doug Aarniokoski directed the episode written by Wendy Mericle & Beth Schwartz (#220).

Edited by Morrigan2575.
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Remember that spoiler about seeing a new costume before the season was out? Looks like the answer has arrived, and that answer is one no one expected (that I recall). Ravager

For those unfamiliar with the character in the comics books, she was Rose Wilson, Slade's rather neglected daughter. Initially a villain, she was convinced to abandon Slade by Dick Grayson, when he revealed that Slade was using her (not going to go into the reasons, because they're suitably comic book daffy and involve a prosthetic eye made of kryptonite).

Anyway, this time it looks like Summer Glau under that mask, which I'm torn about. On the one hand, I'm still annoyed that they went with the path of least imagination, and just made her a villain. But on the other? Summer Glau. Tight leather outfit. Crazy martial arts stuff. Of course, knowing this show, she'll be dead by the end of the episode.

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If you cast Summer Glau, you're going to do something kickass with her.  It is known. 

I am curious about what her relationship to Slade will be; it must have something to do with Papa Queen somehow given her line to Oliver.

Edited by Zalyn.
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Apparently, Guggenheim has tweeted out that Isabel is not Slade's daughter (never thought she was). So Ravager will have a unique origin on the show and Isabel Rochev will go in a different direction as well (from her comic counter part). Of course that assumes Guggenheim isn't lying.

Edited by Morrigan2575.
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That's probably a good move; there are plenty of ways they can establish an interesting relationship without her having to be his daughter.  It also helps avoid having to do a super-flashback 20+ years.

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Apparently, Guggenheim has tweeted out that Isabel is not Slade's daughter (never thought she was). So Ravager will have a unique origin on the show and Isabel Rochev will go in a different direction as well (from her comic counter part). Of course that assumes Guggenheim isn't lying.

Yeah, I didn't think she would actually be Rose Wilson, because the ages would never match up. Isabel is in her 30s, easily, and Slade is not old enough to be her father. But hey, they're willing to allow Ravager to be someone new? If only they take that approach with Black Canary Final Version.

I liked Ravager when she was in Nightwing and Teen Titans, though. Rose Wilson was a strong character, although I guess she might not exist any more in the New 52, like so many other strong characters. If she does, she probably just wears chainmail hotpants and sleeps with whichever male hero is in the vicinity. That's what women are for in DC's new universe, as far as I've been able to tell.

While I don't like Isabel being an evil villain, I did find it interesting that she knows so much more than Blood does, and going off those pictures, she's a true believer in Slade Wilson.

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Episode 21 "City of Blood" description

"City of Blood" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

OLIVER CONSIDERS HIS OPTIONS AGAINST SLADE - After Slade (Manu Bennett) threatens to take everything Oliver (Stephen Amell) loves away, Oliver decides the fastest way to stop further bloodshed is to surrender to his enemy. Knowing that surrender will surely lead to Oliver's death, Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) go to extreme measures to keep Oliver from confronting Slade. Meanwhile, Thea (Willa Holland) considers leaving town, and Laurel (Katie Cassidy) resumes her crusade against Sebastian Blood (guest star Kevin Alejandro). Finally, Slade unleashes his assault on Starling City. Michael Schultz directed the episode written by Holly Harold (#221).

 

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Oh joy. Another change of direction for Laurel, as she realises the guy she first liked then feared, then thought she was wrong about, is actually someone she was right about in the first place.... Sorry, the second place.

I like the sound of Oliver wanting to surrender himself and Diggle and Felicity stopping him. Should give us some really strong Team Arrow scenes.

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I like the sound of Oliver wanting to surrender himself and Diggle and Felicity stopping him. Should give us some really strong Team Arrow scenes.

 

I'm trying to stay positive about this but I keep flashing back to a Smallville episode where Clark was going to sacrifice himself (stupidly) so his team instead tranqed him with Krypto darts and try to pull off an even stupider plan themselves.  Clark feels betrayed.  Cue the worst season of Smallville (the dark Clark arc)

If Felicity and Diggle briefly detain Oliver so they can talk sense into him, it could make for great tv but I fear it could it cause a lot of other problems and I just so don't want the team fractured. 

Edited by BkWurm1.
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SA mentioned at a con that 21-23 take place over the course of  single day.  We know that 22 has Team Arrow (Oliver, Diggle and Felicity) running up hills and shooting on a bridge together.  We also know from a James Bamber tweet that Oliver/Felicity have a stunt together in 23 that they were practicing, it involves the two of them together on a zipline.  

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Guggenheim's Twitter a few days ago suggests that Raisa the long lost housekeeper will at least be mentioned and possibly return in episode 20.

I....don't think that bodes well for a certain mayoral candidate :(  Unless she's just there to yell at everyone for allowing Deathstroke's minions to break the windows and threaten the art collection, or she's planning on defending the Queen mansion to the death with a superpowered vacuum cleaner.

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Oh crap, I just had a horrible idea...Raisa's a Red Shirt....she comes back in 20 and in 21 Oliver wants to surrender to stop further blood shed?!

There's a selfie that the cast took during filming of 2.23 it has Moira in it, it's possible that she's still alive, unless she's filming a flashback scene.  

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You know, Morrigan2575, that actually makes a certain kind of sense - it's a death that impacts Oliver, but leaves the audience wondering if the main cast all survives the series finale.

On the other hand, it would have more impact on VIEWERS if this were a death of a character we'd seen or even heard of since the pilot. 

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Some people are speculating that it's Walter, since we know Colin Salmon flew back and filmed a scene for episode 21.  However, I don't think that has that much more of an impact than Raisa.  I know that both Raisa and Walter being back in 20/21 kind of supports the idea that Moira is the one that bites it but ST taking the picture with the cast in 23 might mean Moira is still alive, unless it's a flashback or something.

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Raisa was supposed to be like second mother to him. It would still hit Oliver hard while saving me from losing ST. On some levels it's a cop out but one I'd gladly endorse.

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Walter was at least in more of the show. The difference there is that I don't think Walter's death would impact Oliver that much - they seemed to be on friendly terms and Moira thinks of Walter as Oliver's family, but I didn't get the impression that Walter and Oliver felt that way. Thea, maybe.

If they really are killing off Raisa For The Angst I am going to stand by my opinion that she should have been at least mentioned now and again on the show. 

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Yeah that's why I don't think it's Walter.  Walter would have more of an impact on the audience than Raisa but Raisa would be more of an emotional hit to Oliver than Walter.  

I agree with BkWurm, both Raisa and Walter are pretty much cop outs, it allows them to kill a character but not really impact anything.  Of course these are the same guys who killed Tommy last season so it's not like they're afraid to make a big sacrifice.  However out of all the Main Characters left the only ones that I could  see being killed off are the ones I like the most...just like Tommy.

So if it's a choice between Walter, Raisa or a character I love...I say go with the cop out. :D

Of course the truly funny thing would be if no one (aside from bad guys) were to die this season.  I don't know why shows and fans feel the need to kill off a character every season just to be edgy or daring.

Canadagraphs apparently confirmed that someone on Arrow dies, he wouldn't say who so it could be Moira, could be Raisa or another Red Shirt.

Edited by Morrigan2575.
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It's also very possible that someone could die in episode 20 and someone else in episode 23 - that way, the audience THINKS the death stuff is over and gets sucker punched with a later death.

Not that I have any residual bitterness towards certain Joss Whedon movies or anything. 

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Oh FFS.  Really? I am starting to become really resentful of these ridiculous and inorganic attempts to keep Laurel in the show. That snippet makes it seem like somehow Moira knew she was going to die? WAT?  /head desk. 

 

I saw an image of The Arrow holding Laurel's hand whilst apparently escaping danger together, and I really wanted to barf.

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It's a shame that the focus in the clips and screenshots is on Laurel.  With ratings going down, you'd think that the show would even pretend to get fans interested.  of all the stuff coming up, that scene with the tech guy is the biggest hook they came up with?

 

And no amount of Quentin can save Laurel scenes for me anymore.

Edited by writersblock51.
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That clip made me want to headthunk all over.

 

1. Laurel is in the DA's office. That puts her in a perfect position to request a warrant. And yes, in this case, she has an easy excuse for the warrant - a mayoral candidate was just killed, and naturally, her opponent has to be completely cleared of all suspicion. I realize TV likes to handwave warrants all the time and Laurel and Quentin are both on Team Vigilante now, but if she actually wants to bring Moira's killers to justice and/or prove something is up with the Mayor's office (I'm assuming that's what she's doing) she has to make sure her evidence isn't going to be immediately tossed out on Fourth Amendment grounds, especially given that her boss isn't fond of her and she was almost disbarred just this season. I thought she loved the law? Just.......auuugh! It makes Laurel look incredibly incompetent and shortsighted, and her character does not need more of that.

 

2. I don't get the timing of this. Before Moira's death, Sebastian was working out of a campaign office so why was he using the Mayoral office computer/ logo before her death?

 

3. Quentin KNOWS another hacker. Felicity. And what makes this particularly ridiculous is that this could be used to bring Laurel into Team Arrow - introduce her to Felicity, let Laurel work out the connection, let the two of them be friends instead of the mild sniping they seem to be doing at each other, and voila, you have not only avoided the whole warrant question, but you've helped Laurel be more part of the show.

 

Granted, if the show had gone for part three I would have been complaining about the lack of warrant, but since they are doing this without a warrant anyway....

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That snippet makes it seem like somehow Moira knew she was going to die?

I think it was supposed to show that Blood knew even before Moira's rally that she was going to die i.e. that Slade was going to kill her, proving that Blood was working with Slade and giving Laurel a reason to say "I told you so" after she had apologized to everyone for going after Blood for no reason..

 

Which not only makes Moira sacrificing herself to save Thea meaningless, it makes me wonder what would have happened if Thea had been killed first, either in the car accident or by jumping on to Slade's gun. Would Slade have killed Moira anyway?  Or would he have assumed she would drop out of the mayoralty race because of grief over Thea?  (Still doesn't explain Blood saying Moira died though.)

 

 

I saw an image of The Arrow holding Laurel's hand whilst apparently escaping danger together, and I really wanted to barf.

That's what makes me think that Slade kidnaps Laurel and not Felicity.  But if he were kidnapping Laurel, there wouldn't need to be this stupid reason to get her into the storyline so maybe it is Felicity after all.

 

 

It's a shame that the focus in the clips and screenshots is on Laurel.  With ratings going down, you'd think that the show would even pretend to get fans interested.  of all the stuff coming up, that scene with the tech guy is the biggest hook they came up with?

Apparently they're related to the people who caused the Queen fortune to disappear in spite of all the stocks and trust accounts and off shore assets they hold.   Maybe they still think Laurel is a reason people tune in to watch.

Edited by statsgirl.
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Maybe Laurel actually stole all their money and they just don't realize it yet?

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My ongoing fanwank has been that Laurel has been getting dosed with low-level Mirakuru by Slade and Blood and that explains all her completely weird and inconsistent behavior.  And/or this entire 2nd half of season 2 is still Oliver being doped up with Mirakuru and is lying on the table in the Lair immediately following Three Ghosts and this has all been his hallucination. 

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Wait, maybe Oliver is still on the island and the past two seasons have actually been some kind of fever dream.

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And/or this entire 2nd half of season 2 is still Oliver being doped up with Mirakuru and is lying on the table in the Lair immediately following Three Ghosts and this has all been his hallucination.

 

Lol! That would be amazingly hilarious. Especially since that would mean that Oliver is a secret Lyla/Diggle shipper and he hallucinated them getting it on in that Suicide Squad episode.

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Lol! That would be amazingly hilarious. Especially since that would mean that Oliver is a secret Lyla/Diggle shipper and he hallucinated them getting it on in that Suicide Squad episode.

And then he could wake up in a cold sweat, "Oh god!  I had the most horrible nightmare that some oppressive force kept making me and Laurel get together through bizarre and lame plot contrivances!  I even tried to kill myself and she was still there chasing after me."

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And then he could wake up in a cold sweat, "Oh god!  I had the most horrible nightmare that some oppressive force kept making me and Laurel get together through bizarre and lame plot contrivances!  I even tried to kill myself and she was still there chasing after me."

 

Makes far more sense than what the writers are actually trying to do with Laurel.

 

"She even became an alcoholic and pill addict, for a few weeks. But suddenly she wasn't any more. Dreams are weird, huh?"

 

Really, I just want the finale to arrive now, so I can know for sure whether they're set on pushing Laurel or whether this is all a big old bait and switch. It's the faint hope that kills you.

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It's the faint hope that kills you.

Yeah.  

I used to be excited for the finale, now I just want it to hurry up and get here so I can find out how bad the damage is.

Edited by statsgirl.
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I used to be excited for the finale, now I just want it to hurry up and get here so I can find out how bad the damage is.

 

And this makes me so very sad.  I don't understand what has happened to our show. I really don't . I mean I still love it, but it's really stretching my limits now with the Laurel push. 

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I fear the red shirt is to indicate she will become the Red Arrow and then I'll cry

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Well, fashion is her passion, after all.

 

Laurel is in 9 of the 12 pictures, Diggle & Felicity in 2, and Thea in 2. In the first on, Laurel looks like she's keeping Oliver from getting close to Diggle and Felicity.

 

They really must think we tune in for Laurel.

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I can't help but look at that picture and think "How does EVERYONE not know Oliver is the Arrow?" You can quite clearly see his face.

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He also announces it to pretty much everyone, is super awful at making up cover stories, and is the only person in Starling with facial hair.  If you don't know Oliver is the Arrow by now, it's because you're actively avoiding the knowledge.

Sad thought: I wonder who he'll change his phone ID picture to for whenever Quentin calls the Arrow now?

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Someone suggested that Laurel will be Arrowette

 

The first Arrowette (properly known as Miss Arrowette) is Bonnie King, a would-be sidekick and general nuisance to Green Arrow. She first appears in World's Finest Comics #113 (November 1960).

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowette

 

I know that they were joking but I think that would be hilarious if they went there with Laurel.  LOL

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Though the thing with Red Arrow, Speedy and Arrowette... they're all sidekicks.  There's some debate there on them being partners, usually from the aforementioned sidekicks, but they all popularly have subordinate or secondary positions to the de facto leader, Green Arrow.  All the major arcs of those characters in the comics were largely coming of age stories and growing into their hero roles.  

 

Roy's role in that was distinct and clearly Oliver was his mentor or attempted mentor, as the case may be.  Also for Roy's young age.  His novice status is unquestioned and completely understandable.

 

Laurel in red - though she got awfully bossy in the Arrowlair - doesn't really bode well for her being any kind of an "equal" anytime soon, despite her attitude.  That could be something she learns in rather glaring, if perhaps also painful, detail in the episodes to come.  A hard pill to swallow for a woman who views herself as this strong, independent Single Female Lawyer, but she's a total newbie to this world of vigilantes, heroes and archnemeses.  She doesn't and shouldn't really know what she's doing (and yeah, I'm writing off her apparent "good shot" with Oliver's bow a lucky shot, I don't imagine she's going to get another in that episode... my guess actually is she gets abducted by the villain... which is the embarrassing fate of many a sidekick in comics).  More especially if - as I've been suspecting - her desire to step into this world (as if she owns it) and truly learn what Oliver does and what Oliver is may be a Be Careful What You Wish For scenario for her.  And yeah, I also suspect she'll be proven wrong in her belief she "knows" Oliver better than anyone.  I don't think she really knows what Oliver is capable of and there are ample opportunities she could find out in this season's finale with the corner Slade is forcing Oliver into.  Making Oliver increasingly desperate.

 

While we're explicitly given dialogue by Oliver himself and not to mention the actions of both prove it, Diggle and Felicity are "partners", equals to Oliver in their own ways.  Laurel isn't being placed in that position at all.  Oliver even essentially tried to put her in the kiddie table (refused to let her go on the mission) because it was about the core trinity.  However, in nosy, foolhardy sidekick fashion, she sauntered into danger anyway and like many an upstart sidekick, likely without getting the full mission brief or having a real idea of what she was charging half-cocked into. Does she even know what Mirakuru is, much less what it does to people?

 

The red color also really off-sets her from the dark green and black of Team Arrow.  Woman sticks out like a sore thumb.  Roy wore red too, obviously, but at least they tended to film him in the shadows and in the dark a lot.  The red sidekick color also fit Roy (whether he's ultimately Arsenal, Speedy or Red Arrow).  Laurel is lit up like a damn Christmas tree with those colors.

Edited by ArctisTor.
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Official episode description for "Streets of Fire" (2-22)

 

The CW’s Official Description: MALCOLM MERLYN RETURNS — Oliver (Stephen Amell) rallies his team as Slade’s (Manu Bennett) soldiers attack the city.  Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) gets a call from S.T.A.R. Labs with game-changing news and Thea (Willa Holland) comes face-to-face with her father – Malcolm Merlyn (guest star John Barrowman).  Nick Copus directed the episode written by Jake Coburn & Ben Sokolowski (#222).

 

 

Official description for "Unthinkable" (2-23)

 

The CW’s Official Description: OLIVER MUST DECIDE ONCE AND FOR ALL IF HE’S A KILLER OR A HERO — Slade (Manu Bennett) moves forward with his plan to kill one more person in Oliver’s (Stephen Amell) life. While Oliver has fought all year to be more than the killer he once was, when Slade kidnaps someone close to Oliver’s heart, Oliver is pushed to the edge and realizes sometimes it takes doing the unthinkable to stop the monster. Meanwhile, Diggle (David Ramsey) takes on Amanda Waller (guest star Cynthia Addai-Robinson) with a little help from some friends, and Thea (Willa Holland) turns to Roy (Colton Haynes) in her time of need. John Behring directed the episode with story by Greg Berlanti and teleplay by Marc Guggenheim & Andrew Kreisberg (#223).

 


This is the sentence from "Unthinkable" that has me frowning hard.  I have no idea what this means.  

 

 While Oliver has fought all year to be more than the killer he once was, when Slade kidnaps someone close to Oliver’s heart, Oliver is pushed to the edge and realizes sometimes it takes doing the unthinkable to stop the monster.

 

Edited by BkWurm1.
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While Oliver has fought all year to be more than the killer he once was, when Slade kidnaps someone close to Oliver’s heart, Oliver is pushed to the edge and realizes sometimes it takes doing the unthinkable to stop the monster.

They're totally trolling us. Note that neither Laurel nor Felicity are mentioned as being otherwise engaged in that ep description to leave it up in the air. I hate fridging/damseling of love interests, so part of me prefers Felicity to be spared that indignity, but it also suggests this will be the "most important person to Oliver" moment.  le sigh. Malcolm, save us all!

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le sigh. Malcolm, save us all!

 

How crazy and sad is it that we are hoping Malcolm saves the show?  LOL that's...man.  Hilarious

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Note that neither Laurel nor Felicity are mentioned as being otherwise engaged in that ep description to leave it up in the air.

 

Add Sara to the list. 

 

The way the description reads and knowing that Oliver has already broken his no kill rule so that obviously isn't considered unthinkable, I almost believe they are implying that he sacrifices the one close to his heart in order to stop  the monster. 

 

That reallllly doesn't fit Oliver's personality though so again, I'm stumped.  Unless the unthinkable is simply working with other monsters?

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Oliver isn't killing recklessly anymore but than doesn't mean he won't kill if need be. No, the unthinkable in this case probably means something like shooting through Sara to kill Slade or allowing Laurel to die in order to stop Slade or save the city or something.

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