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Bonnie Bennett: Witchy Woman

I kind of hate her character and sort of wished she had stayed dead. I'm an awful person.

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Being a long suffering Bonnie fan, I am STILL waiting for a significant story for her. So yeah, there's always Season 6. 

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I kind of hate her character and sort of wished she had stayed dead. I'm an awful person.

Haha!!! I don't know why (I love Bonnie, because... WITCH), but that made me laugh so hard.

Oh Bon Bon, what are we going to do with you?

I initially really liked the character. and she was funny in the pilot just chattering away in a morosely set show. She did not stay light long. BUT, I like that she is a David in a land full of Goliaths. What makes characterisation fun for me is when they have aspects of their personality that I could never have and I am impressed by them. Stupid or not, Low self-esteem or not, I think to be THAT loyal to your pseudo family (to me that means Elena + Caroline) is awesome and something so rare and under-represented that a lot of people were put off as the seasons progresses.

There is something that I have always wondered. Is her fluctuating presence on screen due to her scheduling? Because that might be one of the reasons why she has just not there for 2-4 episodes at a time previously.

Also the problem is the writing sadly didn't change much which is weird for a show on air for 5 seasons with more than 100 episodes. The fact that any changes in her demeanour are attributed to being (magically or otherwise) brainwashed or duped are too bad. Since season 1 I thought that ,while it would make me sad, it would be interesting to see her be a baddie. While she is not the main character, the fact that her woes and problems are always brought back to others diminishes her. Literally the storyline didn't need adjustments as much as it needed better freaking narration. The way you say something colours the perception of the recipient regardless of the medium. Otherwise she could have been a cool character you are happy to see when they do appear and miss when they're gone instead as pointing it out as an inconsistency.

The writing and the acting should be mutually supportive and help to elevate the story. It feels like they have yet to lock on KG's style, strengths and weaknesses. I feel like they are not in control of the reception of the character, bad or otherwise. I think that when they give her material she enjoys she is great. In the episode where Markos escapes, she was supposed to be in excruciating pain and it felt wrong. And later when others passed through I was wincing, so it's probably not that she is incapable, more like they haven't played to her strengths as much as possible. She also obviously has had other projects so maybe consistency and continuity is less solid? Pure speculation, I like her but I don't want to only "blame" one side. The whole show has been less fun lately so I feel for her. I said in an other post that all the actors in general seemed bored for most of the season with some highlights of energy.

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Yeah, I think it's just ND, IS, and PW who are on every episode. Candice Accola has the fewest absences after that group, and then everyone else is absent for around a half dozen episodes each season. I'm sure it's a budgetary issue, but sometimes those absences are really awkward.

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I kind of hate her character and sort of wished she had stayed dead. I'm an awful person.

Oh Lisin, noooooo! Et tu brute? :( Why so meh?

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Well, to be fair I wrote that waaaay before this season got "interesting" but I'm still pretty meh on Bonnie, I just feel like all she does is save other people, she never has a real story for herself. I'm actually really looking forward to this coming season because I am hoping they give her more to do beyond being a good little helper witch to the vamps. 

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That's fair enough, I do feel for Kat Graham as they never really give her anything to do and she's so strong with the spell casting and languages (I hear she speaks 4 herself) that it would be great to see her (Bonnie) do that for her own gain and agency. The show really treats her character terribly IMO. I haven't watched in many seasons since the triangle of doom ate the show.

 

If I were KG and the shoe were on my foot I would have walked by now, for sure.

Edited by slayer2.
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That's fair enough, I do feel for Kat Graham as they never really give her anything to do and she's so strong with the spell casting and languages (I hear she speaks 4 herself) that it would be great to see her (Bonnie) do that for her own gain and agency. The show really treats her character terribly IMO. I haven't watched in many seasons since the triangle of doom ate the show.

 

If I were KG and the shoe were on my foot I would have walked by now, for sure.

 

Actually if you watch the comiccon panel KG seems very pleased with Bonnie and sees her as strong and coming into her own. She was sweet with such kind words to JP that she almost cried.LOL

 

I can only hope since she already knows what's going on with S6 that Bonnie is getting to do something interesting where ever she and Damon are.

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Speaking of Bonnie Bennett, if you haven't seen the video they apparently played at Comicon, you are missing out on some great stuff from Kat Graham. Originally from the Media thread --

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBycMf1F9o#t=268

LOLS... I cried of laughter. Especially the silent head shakes from PW and CD, and the sandwhich story. And the dance... priceless

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Speaking of Bonnie Bennett, if you haven't seen the video they apparently played at Comicon, you are missing out on some great stuff from Kat Graham. Originally from the Media thread --

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRBycMf1F9o#t=268

That, is adorkable and funny as fuck. Those two are wonderful together and Paul Wesley gives great deadpan. Awesome!

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That video is even funnier now watching after the first couple episodes of the season.... They did sort of end up on their own show.... and it seems most of the board likes it better. 

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That video is hysterical.  And I agree that it is even funnier now....especially since so many watchers have said they would watch the Damian/Bonnie show.  Lord knows, I would!

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We witch you a Merry Christmas we witch you a Merry Christmas we witch you a Merry Christmas in 20-14. Ascendants we bring from Damon's sear-ching. We witch you a Merry Christmas in 20-14.

We miss you Bonnie,

Signed,

Bamily

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My greatest fear when it comes to Bonnie these days is that when she inevitably comes back to the present Mystic Falls she'll go back to being a character with no actual characterization who's only purpose is to be a spell casting walking deus ex machina to just wish the problem away when the writers write themselves into a corner like she was before her death. I thought the writing of the show and Bonnie's characterization improved significantly once she died and the writers could no longer use her for this.

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I said something similar on the Fade Into You thread.  Bonnie is currently the star of every scene she is in and I bet she gets to be wallpaper again when she gets back.  She (Kat) was a terrible actress during season one, but has improve somewhat and is great snarking at Damon.  She has so much chemistry with him it will be a crime to ditch it in favor of Delena and Boremy.

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Ahhhhhh! lalalalalala! I strenuously object. Kat Graham has never been a terrible actress she has always been on par with if not better than the Paul Wesleys and Candice Accolas. On top of that she has chemistry with everyone, she's just been treated like crap because Plec doesn't know what to do with a non-white character and has given all her stories to everyone else.

This episode and story arc finally allows Kat to showcase her leading woman status as she should always have been allowed and she has been phenomenal throughout Mileage varies of course but IMO Kat has been slamming it out of the park from the moment she showed up on TVD. The progression of Bonnie from the scared little hesitant witch of season 1 to who she is now has been incredible, even more with shit writing.

Edited by slayer2.
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I loved Kat especially in this episode she did so great and it was heart breaking Im tired of Bonnie always sacrificing herself I want someone to sacrifice themselves for her at least once.

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Ha, yeah, I think the show might have really gone in a Bonnie/Kai direction if Chris Wood hadn't gotten the new job. They did have chemistry, even if it was just more of a hate-vibe, but I kinda think CW might have chemistry with everyone on this show if given the chance. Now I think they'll have to wrap up this Kai storyline, so I doubt much will come of it. I'm okay with that, because, yeah, I don't need Bonnie to be with someone who tormented her.

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Please no.  Let's have one woman on this show stand up for herself.  Bonnie has always been the one with the clearest moral compass.  If she should succumb to the "charms" of Kai, it would sound very much like 50 Shades of Grey to me (though I should say I haven't read the book or seen the movie).  Torment does not equal love, though.  Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.  Stay Strong BonBon.  Damon, as evil as he has been, is where your heart belongs.  Go get him!

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So Bonnie is/was supposed to be the most intuitive, sensitive, self-sacrificing and comparatively introverted one out of the Elena/Caroline/Bonnie trio, right?! Sometimes she actually seems more the happy/ditzy/bubbly one, but I gather she wasn't supposed to be...? Honestly, while rewatching earlier seasons for the first time since they aired I'm having trouble figuring out the female characters' distinctive personality traits---or if any of them have any :) They all seem sort of similar to me! I am getting why many like her interactions with Damon---she seems to see through him and 'get' him, even/especially the worst facets of him, while he seems to bring out her sharp, self-confident and empowered side. The actress is ridiculously gorgeous, and I do think she has nice chemistry with Ian Somerholder. I really don't care at all about her pairing with Jeremy, but then I don't ever care about anyone with Jeremy :) 

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Well, Bonnie is easily one of the few people on this show that isn't a selfish, self absorbed [insert insult here], and she is the only witch I can think of on either TVD or The Originals that doesn't abuse her powers for her own gain all the time, even if she instead does so solely for the benefit of others that's at least better than doing it just because she can.

 

In contrast, Damon is the type to get ridiculously obsessed with one girl for decades if not centuries at a time. He wouldn't go around cheating on Elena with Bonnie, so I'd say it would be a major character assassination for the two of them to get together in the interim.

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I agree that Bonnie and Damon are not the victims in Kais' revenge scheme, elena is.

Elena is most definitely making a sacrifice for her friend, since she has knowingly accepted her fate, a fate that ensures she will never have that human relationship with her brother and grow up with him like she craved.Elena reasonings for taking the cure start to become moot since she is going to be in Coma while all the humans, and her natural human life is passing her by.

Elena knew all of this and accepted it, knowing full well that if she said the word, Damon would have offed Bonnie in heartbeat, or not saved her life.

Bonnie is aware of that on some level, se realises that Damon is struggling with doing right by her verses having Elena back.

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I think Bamon has the support it does because of the chemistry Ian & Kat have in scenes together. I'm fine with them being BFFs with no romantic possibilities though. I think it would be altering the character of Bonnie to have her want to be with Damon given Elena's current state. If Elena had just moved on from Damon that would be different. Bonnie's always been one of the more principled characters on the show and wouldn't ever go there especially with Elena still alive and kind of together with Damon.

 

I'm just miffed that the show once again just throws together someone for Bonnie with no real build up or history. Bonnie/Jeremy was basically that and it's why I could never really get into it. You felt like the show didn't really care so why bother caring as a fan?

 

It's why I was pretty sad they nixed the idea of Kai. They've reformed so many villains in this series and there was so much potential there between the two of them. Even though it would have been pretty twisted if Bonnie forgave him. It was nice to actaully see someone fall for Bonnie first for a change.

 

Hell they could have at least explored Bonnie/Matt. The two of them have shared a lot of similar experiences because of their vampire friends. It would have been nice to see them both ride off into the sunset together at the end and have a failry normal life. Plus Matt has always also gotten the short end of the stick as far as relationships go. But I'm a bias Batt shipper since like season 1. It just would make so much more sense than

Enzo!

And I can't figure out why they won't go there other than that Plec doesn't think someone like Matt would go for someone like Bonnie. And I'm trying to say that as PC as possible because I don't want to accuse her of anything like that but her track record is.....

Edited by Couver.
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Finally figured out how to add quoted comments.

The one constant in the 7 seasons that TVD has been on the air is Bonnie's steadfast love for Elena, so I know she would never cheat on Elena.

Bonnie is not the typical Alloy teenage girl.

That's not true, Elena's been a shitty "friend" to Bonnie since she vamped. Elena even tried to kill her, I'd say their friendship has signicantly cooled since asshole Elena tried to eat her.

Also, Bonnie isn't responsible for Kai's psychopathy, that is an insane amount of victim blaming and if you want to talk sacrifice then EVERYONE can learn from Bonnie including asshole Elena about what real and true sacrifice is.

I agree that Bonnie and Damon are not the victims in Kais' revenge scheme, elena is.

Elena is most definitely making a sacrifice for her friend, since she has knowingly accepted her fate, a fate that ensures she will never have that human relationship with her brother and grow up with him like she craved.Elena reasonings for taking the cure start to become moot since she is going to be in Coma while all the humans, and her natural human life is passing her by.

Elena knew all of this and accepted it, knowing full well that if she said the word, Damon would have offed Bonnie in heartbeat, or not saved her life.

Bonnie is aware of that on some level, se realises that Damon is struggling with doing right by her verses having Elena back.

And just how has she made a sacrifice? To say that would suppose that Bonnie should kill herself for Elena to keep living. There is no sacrifice, Elena didn't voluntarily go under the spell. The spell happened and she's living with it, a sacrifice would be Bonnie dying (again) for Elena to live (again) which seems to be what you're suggesting is the natural order. Or Elena killing herself so Bonnie wouldn't have to deal with the guilt or the audience have to deal with the ghost of the annoying Elena hanging over our heads for a season. Nay, I say, nay!

Just so we're clear, there's no sacrifice involved in not agreeing to MURDER your best friend. Additionally, so we're also clear, Bonnie is a human with as much value and right to live as Elena (moreso I'd say), Damon not killing Bonnie is not a sacrifice. Elena has never made a sacrifice so she wouldn't know what one was.

Edited by slayer2.
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Sorry, but that's entirely on Elena, switch on or off, it was Elena trying to kill her best friend, the urge was there and she followed it. I think Caroline has more than proved how responsible you can be with your switch off if you choose to be. Elena's an asshole and frankly Jeremy's resurrection had nothing to do with her. Jeremy was Bonnie's boyfriend. It had a lot more to do with that than it did that it was upsetting Elena. Everything upsets Elena and yet everyone has lost more than her and all because of HER. Elena owes everybody and if that means Bonnie gets Damon well too bad. If she's loyalty fussy than she shouldn't have brother swapped to begin with. Nevermind all boyfriends between her and Caroline.

ETA I don't know how intelligent a conversation I can engage in when someone is using the word skank so we'll agree to disagree and just leave it at that.

Edited by slayer2.
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That's not true, Elena's been a shitty "friend" to Bonnie since she vamped. Elena even tried to kill her, I'd say their friendship has signicantly cooled since asshole Elena tried to eat her.

Also, Bonnie isn't responsible for Kai's psychopathy, that is an insane amount of victim blaming and if you want to talk sacrifice then EVERYONE can learn from Bonnie including asshole Elena about what real and true sacrifice is.

And just how has she made a sacrifice? To say that would suppose that Bonnie should kill herself for Elena to keep living. There is no sacrifice, Elena didn't voluntarily go under the spell. The spell happened and she's living with it, a sacrifice would be Bonnie dying (again) for Elena to live (again) which seems to be what you're suggesting is the natural order. Or Elena killing herself so Bonnie wouldn't have to deal with the guilt or the audience have to deal with the ghost of the annoying Elena hanging over our heads for a season. Nay, I say, nay!

Just so we're clear, there's no sacrifice involved in not agreeing to MURDER your best friend. Additionally, so we're also clear, Bonnie is a human with as much value and right to live as Elena (moreso I'd say), Damon not killing Bonnie is not a sacrifice. Elena has never made a sacrifice so she wouldn't know what one was.

 

That's not true, Elena's been a shitty "friend" to Bonnie since she vamped. Elena even tried to kill her, I'd say their friendship has signicantly cooled since asshole Elena tried to eat her.

Also, Bonnie isn't responsible for Kai's psychopathy, that is an insane amount of victim blaming and if you want to talk sacrifice then EVERYONE can learn from Bonnie including asshole Elena about what real and true sacrifice is.

And just how has she made a sacrifice? To say that would suppose that Bonnie should kill herself for Elena to keep living. There is no sacrifice, Elena didn't voluntarily go under the spell. The spell happened and she's living with it, a sacrifice would be Bonnie dying (again) for Elena to live (again) which seems to be what you're suggesting is the natural order. Or Elena killing herself so Bonnie wouldn't have to deal with the guilt or the audience have to deal with the ghost of the annoying Elena hanging over our heads for a season. Nay, I say, nay!

Just so we're clear, there's no sacrifice involved in not agreeing to MURDER your best friend. Additionally, so we're also clear, Bonnie is a human with as much value and right to live as Elena (moreso I'd say), Damon not killing Bonnie is not a sacrifice. Elena has never made a sacrifice so she wouldn't know what one was.

No one is suggesting that Bonnie should kill herself, or that Damon should murder her to get Elena back. Elena would NEVER want that, because she loves Bonnie, and Damon knows this. Lets just remember that Kai did this to Elena to get revenge on Damon and Bonnie, Elena is the victim here, none of this is her fault. 

My second point is that Bonnie was dying at the end of 6x22, Damon didn't NEED to murder her, he could have left her to die fair and square, if he had arrived a few minutes later, she would have been dead, but he knows that Elena would want him to save Bonnie (and she did), regardless of her own predicament, and so he did it for Elena. 

Thirdly, I believe If Elena WANTED that spell broken, Damon would not have helped Bonnie, he would have let her die. He would've been sad about it, but he would have done it for Elena, because he loves her above all others, and he knows Elena isn't that selfish, That is why I view the whole thing as a sacrifice by Elena, in return for all the times Bonnie has sacrificed for her- This was verbalized by both girls in the dream sequence in 6x22.

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That may be the show's view of it--and even Damon's--but for that to be true, you have to take the position that Bonnie's life is somehow of less inherent value than Elena's. I found that E/B scene very annoying (even while I was crying b/c of ACTING) for that reason. The idea that Elena is making a sacrifice by not wanting/allowing/encouraging Bonnie to die prematurely in order for Elena to be awake for these specific six decades, instead of the 60 years after that.... No.

 

The neutral condition is that Bonnie deserves to live her full life, no matter how that impacts Elena. Elena is not making a sacrifice by not actually dying and magnanimously not making Bonnie die either. No one is actually making a sacrifice here. Elena is the victim, yes and she is doing the right thing, and all her loved ones are suffering because they miss her, but no one is sacrificing for Bonnie. 

 

Even if the spell had meant that Elena were about to die, and the only way to save her would be to kill Bonnie, it STILL wouldn't be a sacrifice for Elena to die. If Bonnie weren't the target of the magic spell, then killing her is still killing her. "Letting" her live is still the neutral condition. If the roles were reversed, and Elena jumped in and said, "NO! You have to kill me, you can't let Bonnie die!" (aw, remember Season 2 Elena?), then THAT is a sacrifice.

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I fully agree with what you are saying about the neutral position, and that Bonnie deserves to live a full happy life as much as Elena does, because that is what 99% of rational beings would do, because killing your best friend, or asking someone to do it for you so you can live is just wrong. The status quo here is, Elena is sleeping and Bonnie is alive, so yes, remaining this way is not a sacrifice as such, it's more about acceptance of the circumstances.

However, the scene that changes everything is Bonnie (almost) dying. The neutral position here is that Bonnie should have died (and would have), and all things being equal, that would have been fairer since she was THE target, not Elena, BUT she was saved by Damon for Elena. Damon did not accept the status quo or neutral position of Bonnie dying, because Elena would not have wanted him to

 

The way I see it, Elena took a bullet for Bonnie this time, and in the process,  has lost the chance at a human life with her brother and human friends. That is a sacrifice IMO. It's not about who's life is more important, because the show isn't saying that, they are saying that Elena is most important to Damon.

It's a tricky one, for sure, and interesting to see how people view it differently.

 

I like the Bonnie and Elena friendship. Throughout the show, they have both shown that they would go to extraordinary lengths for each other, because they love each other like sisters.

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The Bonnie/Elena friendship is my favorite Bonnie relationship on the show. I always wished the show focused on the friendship between the 3 girls more. Elena's final scene with Bonnie was so sweet. And it was really touching because given what had happened it really was their final scene since Bonnie will for certain be dead when Elena wakes up unlike Matt or Jeremy who may just be very old. I thought both actresses knocked that scene out. 

 

I doubt the show lasts more than this season but I would be curious to see how Damon and the others would feel if Bonnie wanted to extend her life. We know witches can do it. Didn't that witch from that bar in the 20s do it? I don't watch The Originals but have they ever said how long a witch can prolong their life? 

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However, the scene that changes everything is Bonnie (almost) dying. The neutral position here is that Bonnie should have died (and would have), and all things being equal, that would have been fairer since she was THE target, not Elena, BUT she was saved by Damon for Elena. Damon did not accept the status quo or neutral position of Bonnie dying, because Elena would not have wanted him to.

 

I disagree that letting Bonnie die would have been the neutral position, and I also disagree that Damon saved her for Elena.

 

If Elena weren't under this spell, and Bonnie were in danger, Damon would have saved Bonnie. If Elena were dead instead of just put to sleep, Damon would have saved Bonnie. So saving her life IS the status quo/neutral position, in my opinion. It's not above-and-beyond. And letting her die when Damon had the ability to save her would have been tantamount to killing her. Damon also loves Bonnie, and even before they were good friends, he saved her even while bitching about it. That's what all of these people do for each other.

 

For the same reasons, I think it's reductive to say that Damon saves Bonnie because of Elena. Certainly, it would go against his interests w/r/t Elena to let Bonnie die, but he himself said in the premiere that it's not just that. It can be all things.

 

The way I see it, Elena took a bullet for Bonnie this time, and in the process,  has lost the chance at a human life with her brother and human friends. That is a sacrifice IMO. It's not about who's life is more important, because the show isn't saying that, they are saying that Elena is most important to Damon.

 

 

I agree that Elena is most important to Damon, and I certainly agree that Elena has lost something because of Kai. I just consider it a loss, not a sacrifice FOR Bonnie, when, 1) it wasn't an active undertaking (again, see Elena proactively giving herself over to Klaus in S2; forcing Stefan to take Matt from the car in S3) and 2) the alternative is the loss of someone else's actual whole life.

 

So, to come at it from ONE more angle before I give up--if Kai's spell had been "Bonnie is a breath away from death, and the only way to save her is for Elena to go into this deep sleep that she won't wake up from until Bonnie dies for real" and THEN Elena had stepped up and said, 'Yes, I'll do it!'" then THAT would have felt like "taking the bullet" for Bonnie.* That's an active step. Again, Elena's only options here were to accept the condition she was already in (status quo) OR to have Bonnie killed (via someone else). It's not a sacrifice to simply choose not to let Bonnie die prematurely, or to not save her when you have that capability (in Damon's case).

 

(*I almost wish it had gone that way, because that would have felt heroic to me. That would have been equivalent to the ways Bonnie has sacrificed for others. But this show didn't care enough about Bonnie or about Bonnie/Elena over the years to have really sold that.)

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@ Carrie Anne.

I take on board what you are saying, and I think we agree in part, but where we disagree is on Damon and his motivations. Caroline Dries confirmed that Damon saving Bonnie was a "Gift" to Elena.

Yes, Damon would save Bonnie anytime, except if it meant Elena dies, because she is his friend. I would even go as far as to say Damon might even save Bonnie at the expense of his own life, because Damon will risk his life for those he loves, but he puts no ones life before Elena. Elena isn't dead, that is the whole point.

Do you think Damon would still save Bonnie if it meant Elena was gone (dead) forever, instead of just sleeping?

 

 

I agree that Elena is most important to Damon, and I certainly agree that Elena has lost something because of Kai. I just consider it a loss, not a sacrifice FOR Bonnie, when, 1) it wasn't an active undertaking (again, see Elena proactively giving herself over to Klaus in S2; forcing Stefan to take Matt from the car in S3) and 2) the alternative is the loss of someone else's actual whole life.

 

Loss/sacrifice, It doesn't matter, because Elena is in this position because of the Bonnie/Kai feud. No Elena didn't choose this, it was forced on her, it doesn't lessen the sentiment, it doesn't make Elenas' loss less important, because that would be reductive IMO. The whole point being, a Bamon romantic relationship would be gross under those circumstances, especially since DE are still together.

Edited by miss-vanilla.
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Caroline Dries confirmed that Damon saving Bonnie was a "Gift" to Elena.

 

Ewwwww, good to know CD is still disgusting. Odd that she was the one who wrote the premiere in which she made Damon say (when Bonnie asked if he knew how long three seconds are when you're in a near-death situation): "And by the third [second], I remembered you're my best friend and that if anything ever happened to you, I would lose my mind."

 

Yes, Damon would save Bonnie anytime, except if it meant Elena dies, because she is his friend. I would even go as far as to say Damon might even save Bonnie at the expense of his own life, because Damon will risk his life for those he loves, but he puts no ones life before Elena. Elena isn't dead, that is the whole point. Do you think Damon would still save Bonnie if it meant Elena was gone (dead) forever, instead of just sleeping?

 

 

No, I think Damon would kill anyone, including Stefan and himself, if it were the difference between Elena being Really Dead or not. So we agree. My point was that Damon would save Bonnie in ALL cases except that one. So saving her is the neutral position, given that Elena's death was not at issue.

 

[...] The whole point being, a Bamon romantic relationship would be gross under those circumstances, especially since DE are still together.

 

 

Sorry--I lost track of where this discussion began. I'm not arguing this point in response to the concept of a romantic B/D relationship at all, though I was in favor of it last season prior to the finale. For me, I only began to like Damon again (after two seasons of hate) because of his friendship with Bonnie, and that friendship was without question my favorite thing about S6, and Bonnie my favorite character that season. I saw that as a real, deep friendship, one that signalled to me an actual change in Damon--one that, importantly, had nothing to do with Elena--so I'm just reacting to seeing that relationship and Bonnie herself described in terms that render them both subordinate to Elena. Damon has (platonic) feelings for Bonnie that have nothing to do with Elena, and those feelings are at least as important in terms of why he wants Bonnie to stay alive as his giving a "gift to Elena." (Seriously, vomit, CD.)

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Ewwwww, good to know CD is still disgusting. Odd that she was the one who wrote the premiere in which she made Damon say (when Bonnie asked if he knew how long three seconds are when you're in a near-death situation): "And by the third [second], I remembered you're my best friend and that if anything ever happened to you, I would lose my mind."

 

 

No, I think Damon would kill anyone, including Stefan and himself, if it were the difference between Elena being Really Dead or not. So we agree. My point was that Damon would save Bonnie in ALL cases except that one. So saving her is the neutral position, given that Elena's death was not at issue.

 

 

Sorry--I lost track of where this discussion began. I'm not arguing this point in response to the concept of a romantic B/D relationship at all, though I was in favor of it last season prior to the finale. For me, I only began to like Damon again (after two seasons of hate) because of his friendship with Bonnie, and that friendship was without question my favorite thing about S6, and Bonnie my favorite character that season. I saw that as a real, deep friendship, one that signalled to me an actual change in Damon--one that, importantly, had nothing to do with Elena--so I'm just reacting to seeing that relationship and Bonnie herself described in terms that render them both subordinate to Elena. Damon has (platonic) feelings for Bonnie that have nothing to do with Elena, and those feelings are at least as important in terms of why he wants Bonnie to stay alive as his giving a "gift to Elena." (Seriously, vomit, CD.)

Well there lies the conflict. And yes CD can be be gross and literal and EWWW, and this is not the first time............ I'm looking at 3x14 but I digress, it is what it is I guess.

Damon definitely does have feelings and a respect for Bonnie, that has developed independently of Elena, loosely speaking, and vice versa, and this is one of the reasons I now enjoy her character more than the previous seasons in which I found her nothing short of annoying TBH.

I have no problem with Bamon being a badass friendship, both are loyal to the ends of the earth to those they trust, love and believe in, and I hope we get to see more development there, truly, as long as neither Dalaric or Delena are  casualties of that bond. I want to see them all become a dysfunctional but effective family, without a romance tainting it, is all.

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Caroline Dries writes some of the best Bamon scenes, including the 3-second declaration in 7x1 so I don't understand why she seems to get undue flak. Plec is showrunner so any issues with plot/characterizations really just depend on her. And she's the one who wanted to kill off Bonnie at the end of season 5. 

 

 

 

I never knew this! Did she actaully say that? Though it wouldn't surprise me. Her dislike for the character is sadly very obvious. I can't figure out why either. Kat seems like she's great. So glad it didn't happen since season 6 was a good one for Bonnie overall.

 

I agree about Bamon not being friends without Elena. Damon's relationships with the witches he has known were been terrible at best. Without Elena he'd probably just be using Bonnie for something with threat of violence or harm to someone she cares about. They needed her as that bonding point. Which isn't unrealistic. A lot of friendships start out that way thorugh mutual association.

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Yeah, I don't dispute that Bonnie and Damon would never have been friends without Elena. They definitely wouldn't have become as close without being stuck in 1994 together, because Damon would never have taken his focus off of Elena for long enough to open up to Bonnie, even as a friend. But that doesn't mean that their friendship is enmeshed or intertwined with D/E's relationship. They are separate things. I think B/D solidified their friendship as its own thing over the course of last season, and now this one.

 

Or maybe I'm just sick of everything being about Elena, even after ND has left the show...!

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First of all, Damon and Bonnie being friends still weirds out a part of my brain. But that's another story.

 

the show was about her for six years.

 

Which wasn't always a good thing when she was actually there. It would be even less of a good thing now that she's not even around.

 

I've seen other shows that have tried to keep missing (and popular) characters present by mentioning them and building stories around them. And while this might make big fans of the character happy (which I think TVD is trying to do), nobody else ever likes it. And there's usually much relief when the writers stop doing it. And, in my opinion, those shows were much stronger when they didn't try to keep working in that character.

 

Elena was the glue that held all these disparate characters together. A lot of them would literally be strangers, or might even have murdered each other several times over but for her presence.

 

And I can think of many TV friends who met through another person (often the lead). But that didn't mean their friendship was based on that person. And, as a big fan of TV friendships (more than 'ships, actually) I really find that idea unappealing. I want my favorite TV friendships to be based on the fact that these people care about each other, not that they care about someone else, and that's what holding them together. Just no.

 

As weird as I still find the friendship between Bonnie and Damon, I also dislike it when people (and the writers, to some degree) try to make it all about Elena because I don't think it is. If it was, they would've become pals ages ago. Damon and Bonnie's friendship developed because of the experiences they had with each other, separate from Elena.

 

It actually reminds me of the friendship between Cara and Kahlan on Legend of the Seeker. (And here's a clip for anyone who doesn't know who I'm talking about.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn2nhLdkcGU

 

Those two hated each other at first. (There were death threats, and actual attempts on each other's lives.) And they were only around each other in the beginning because of Richard. (In fact, one of his big fears was that they'd kill each other.) But Richard wasn't why they ended up becoming such good friends. That was based on them getting to know each other, and spending time with each other independent of Richard. If I had thought their friendship was all about Richard, I wouldn't have liked it nearly as much. Or at all, come to think of it.

 

So, while Bonnie and Damon's friendship is still a little weird to me, I certainly wouldn't want it to be all about Elena.

Edited by Bitterswete.
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Oh, Legend of the Seeker! I remember that show. It was great, wasn't it? Such a shame we never got past Season 2. Kahlan/Cara friendship easily became one of the best things about the show and I think I even became more invested in it than Kahlan/Richard. Still, in my opinion, those two women would never have found common ground with Richard there holding them together.

 

It's very true that Richard brought them together, and they never would've spent two seconds near each other (without one of them ending up dead) without him there. But two people can care about the same person without ever liking each other, which certainly could've happened between Kahlan and Cara. But their relationship eventually grew beyond the fact that they both happened to care about the same person, and they started caring about each other beyond their relationships with him. Which is what I think has happened with Bonnie and Damon.

 

Yes, I have to agree with you that the Bonnie & Damon friendship doesn't really hold up to strong scrutiny.

 

Actually, what I find weird about it is that I do buy it. Because, not long ago, I would've scoffed at the very notion of Damon and Bonnie truly being friends. Now, I actually believe that they care about each other (independent of how they feel about anyone else), and the weirdness comes from the fact that, not long ago, I never would've thought it was possible.

 

And if I thought that the sole basis for their friendship was Elena, that I wouldn't buy. Them becoming friends because of the things they've gone through, and the time they spent together due to some very unusual circumstances, that I can believe. 

 

That being said, I'd like it if some of their issues came up and were dealt with onscreen. Stuff like that has made the friendships on other shows stronger. I'm not holding my breath though because this is TVD, and they like to gloss over things like that.

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Yeah, I don't dispute that Bonnie and Damon would never have been friends without Elena. They definitely wouldn't have become as close without being stuck in 1994 together, because Damon would never have taken his focus off of Elena for long enough to open up to Bonnie, even as a friend. But that doesn't mean that their friendship is enmeshed or intertwined with D/E's relationship. They are separate things. I think B/D solidified their friendship as its own thing over the course of last season, and now this one.

 

Or maybe I'm just sick of everything being about Elena, even after ND has left the show...!

This I agree with 100% and I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I just meant Elena was the common ground for both of them. But I think season 6 did a good job showing that their time alone in the prison world let them develop their own friendship. The phone calls and one on ones they had once Bonnie came back were proof of that. 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, to keep the post on topic (and change the current one), does anyone think there's any chance that Lucy Bennett or any of the extended Bennett family ever re-appear on this show? I remember in season 1/2/3, how the show would refer to Bonnie visiting Sheila's extended family for weeks (usually to explain away her absence). Perhaps now that the show is focusing better on her, they can explore that?  

I loved Lucy! She seemed badass and capable. I wanted to see her again but then I was also glad she never appeared because witches on this show usually always meet an untimely end. It was nice to see her one up the vamps in season 2 because usually they always win. I've never understood why witches don't just up the power of their mind spell and just kill the vampire before they use super speed on them. 

 

doram thanks for that info re Plec. That's all very disappointing to hear. I'm glad Kat was at least able to talk her out of it. 

Edited by Couver.
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While it is fantastic to see the Bonnie thread finally get some play, I find it annoying that she would not have had this attention on her own.  If she kisses Enzo, I may have to shoot my television.

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I think with time, and if the show moves beyond the 7th season, they'll get to that stage but at the moment it seems more believable to link their friendship to Elena.

 

Agree to disagree because I don't think there friendship was ever about Elena. It's why they were around each other some before the prison world incident, certainly. But I think them actually caring about each other started in the prison world where they spent lots of time together (talking, sharing meals, etc.) and actually got to know each other as people, something they didn't really do before. And I just don't buy that Elena was their motivation for doing that. 

Edited by Bitterswete.
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While it is fantastic to see the Bonnie thread finally get some play, I find it annoying that she would not have had this attention on her own.  If she kisses Enzo, I may have to shoot my television.

 

I will be joining you there. I am desperately hoping that is one of the things that does not come true this season. I'm pretty sure this is the last season and I don't want her ending it with Enzo. 

 

For me personally Bonnie was the reason I got into the show albeit much later than when it started airing originally. I love the character & KG. The Bamon stuff is nice and I enjoy it as a progression for her character but my interest in her was never dependent on that. 

Edited by Couver.
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Well, I'm one of the people who referred to CD as disgusting (and her comment elicited the "vomit" response), and I was being hyperbolic. CD has said plenty of things that make me side-eye her, but in this case, I was specifically referring to the comment that Damon's not killing Bonnie is a "gift to Elena." To me, that view (coupled with her tone that indicated she thought it was a good thing, not an eye-rolling thing) means that CD sees Bonnie as inherently of less value than Elena and Damon's friendship with Bonnie as fairly meaningless. Perhaps she just misspoke, or perhaps her words belie her indifference toward Bonnie.

 

Basically, I don't think we have any evidence that CD values Bonnie any more highly than JP does. CD has been showrunner or co-runner since S3, so if JP wanted to kill Bonnie off and Kat was the one who convinced her not to, then clearly CD wasn't speaking up about it. Also, CD has a hard time talking about Bonnie without making sure to compare her to Elena and talk about how Bonnie has been "empowered" by Elena, is taking the reins from Elena in terms of serving as Damon's moral compass, etc. Uh, great, what an exciting time for her.

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For a very long time I wanted to write her (Plec) off as a low-key racist, until she launched The Originals which features a sizable number of POCs, some of whom were even re-casted from the originally white characters. The Originals is not perfect but the POCs seem to get far better treatment than Bonnie. Which made me think it's something personal between Plec and Kat. 

 

 

 

I always chalked this up to the fact that TVD has been criticized for how it handles POC so they corrected it on The Originals. TVD's track record is horrendously bad.

 

And I totally get your earlier post about wanting Bonnie to have someone that wants her above all others. I think I've just made my peace that that isn't going to happen though. I'll settle for her being written as capable and smart. I'm just going to handwave away whatever horrible relationship they stick her in now.

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I think the last time I thought Bonnie was a bad ass witch was in 2x21 when she took on Klaus almost single handedly and then threatened to kill him and Elijah if Elijah didn't kill Klaus like he'd promised. 

 

Of course the Season 4 prom episode where she fucking hands Elena's ass to her and wipes the ground with her after Elena stupidly attacked her was enjoyable, but more driven by the expression magic I think.

 

I miss that Bonnie!

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First of all, I love Bonnie and hate Damon. He is only bearable when he is sincerely being Bonnie's friend. Otherwise, he is a stinking pile of whiny man-child shit that blames his mistakes on every Tom, Dick and Suzie. He especially disgusts me because he clearly will put whatever vagina he is chasing before his brother any day when Stefan clearly always puts him first. Yet, he gets o whine about how Stefan wronged him and everyone prefers him. I'm always thinking in response "well maybe that's because he doesn't sweat desperation and co-dependent stalker behaviour, Damon. You should try buying some self-esteem first." But this is neither here nor there.

That was the writers's fault, not Elena's. Maybe I'm just protective about her character because she was one of the few clear female protagonists on TV for along time. Male protagonists don't seem to be treated in the same way and it raises my hackles when people are so quick to dismiss her or the role she played on this show. I don't need her to be mentioned every other episode. But I won't find it believable either if she's completely forgotten. 

I understand the impulse but the fact that she was such a great character at first made me resent the fact that they turned her into a self-indulgent idiot who can't deal with anything. The show justified every stupid behaviour to not upset Elena as if she is a ten year old child who can't cope. It was like since they couldn't use her actual safety as the focal concern anymore (because vampire), they switched to her potentially crying as the priority of everyone. Which makes her unstable and weak because the breakneck speed of the plot demands reasons for the groups' actions more often. The other problem is that the writers are so enamoured with the waste of space that is the Damon character that they didn't want to change him. Therefore, instead of maturing him and giving him some kind of progress, they made Elena "go down to his level" to justify them getting together because we all know Elena in seasons 1-3 would not stand for Damon going on murder rampages because his feelings got hurt. They had to make her fuck up enough that she couldn't reject him on moral a basis without being a hypocrite. Someone mentioned the Elena/Bonnie friendship and I remember the day I thought I didn't consider as friends anymore. It was when killing Matt made her flip her switch on when trying to kill Bonnie did not even make her flinch.

 

I loved Lucy! She seemed badass and capable. I wanted to see her again but then I was also glad she never appeared because witches on this show usually always meet an untimely end. It was nice to see her one up the vamps in season 2 because usually they always win. I've never understood why witches don't just up the power of their mind spell and just kill the vampire before they use super speed on them. 

 

doram thanks for that info re Plec. That's all very disappointing to hear. I'm glad Kat was at least able to talk her out of it. 

I'm not. She needs to be set free. And I love Lucy so much.

 

It puzzles me, greatly, how discussing Bamon always leads back to disparaging the actress. Bonnie Bennett is a fictional character, but Katerina Graham is a real live person.

Are you talking about online comments? Because yeah, they are brutal on youtube and I am sure worse on Twitter. What puzzled me though was when some fans were offended by Bonkai on Elena/Nina's behalf. Did they date or something? 

 

.
There is no verification of KG begging for her job. Unless there's video tape somewhere of that event.

What there is verification of is Plec's tweet where she said, clearly without any ambiguity, that she believed Bonnie's story ended in season 5 and Kat Graham convinced her not to kill off Bonnie; and Kat's own silence about the matter. Make of it what you will. But that Plec could make such a public, tactless tweet speaks a lot of Plec's personality and her relationship with Kat. If anyone is being disparaged here, it's not Kat but Plec who definitely knew what she was implying when she made that tweet.

This came up because Caroline Dries was being criticized (Dries is also a real live person) and I was pointing out how unfounded the Dries hate is when it was Plec who seemed to actively dislike - or at the very least, found no value - in Bonnie's character, and needed to be 'convinced' to keep the character. In the same episode arc, by the way, where Alaric Saltzman a character that died 2 seasons back, was brought back to life. Plec apparently found more stories to tell for a dead and gone Alaric, than a living Bonnie.

I think you should check Plec's account and see the tweet yourself so you can draw your conclusions. You know what they say about context.

Maybe I am oblivious, but I don't think anyone else came away with the impression that Kat Graham was being disparaged.

I don't know what the OP meant but people are vicious towards her specifically online whenever Bamon is brought up. Also, I don't know that she was disparaging herself but it certainly sounds bad for Kat that she had to beg more likely than simply argue for her job. I would not be surprised if Ian intervened in her favour. But maybe she was doing that just to take the heat off CD, whom sje knows is simply repeating what she is told.

 

In my opinion? Both women don't seem to care for Bonnie very much. While I think Dries has a skewed perspective of the characters, but her comment about Damon is... well, he's her character. It's not a nice take on things, but let's face it, Damon Salvatore is not a nice person. He routinely screws over the brother he claims to love above all else. He shows his remorse and grief by going on murder rampages. He has little to no impulse control. In many ways, a lot of Damon's actions come across to me as a borderline sociopath, a creature without empathy, and I understand him better when I view him this way. My problem isn't her take on the character - he is her character after all, and would have a better idea of what makes him tick - but the fact that his actions end up being justified by the narrative and/or excused by the narrative. Just off the top of my head, there were no consequences for his Whitmore massacre, and there was none for May 10, 1994 and both times, the women in his life vindicated him of his crimes.  (But that's a topic for another thread.)

 

Plec, on the other hand... Well, she seems to have more of a problem with Kat, than Bonnie, if that makes sense. Her tweet was such an insensitive tactless thing to imply about Kat, personally, you know? And I'm sorry, but she's not a kid. She knew precisely what it would come across at and she could  have easily - if she had to at all - say that she changed her mind about killing off Bonnie without inserting the line of Kat convincing her.

 

For a very long time I wanted to write her (Plec) off as a low-key racist, until she launched The Originals which features a sizable number of POCs, some of whom were even re-casted from the originally white characters. The Originals is not perfect but the POCs seem to get far better treatment than Bonnie. Which made me think it's something personal between Plec and Kat. 

 

 

Anyway... this is already getting too off-topic and conspiracy-theorist. LOL. I don't really have a problem with anyone being taken to task, when it's justified. I just thought it weird what the above user said (about Kat, not Plec or Dries), because it wasn't meant that way and I didn't understand how it was taken as such. 

Well, for one the Originals is really run by Michael Narducci so I think that's why. I think Julie has lost interest in the Originals when it evolved past shipping nonsense and tried to deal with issues like identity, morality, trust and family. Narducci doesn't even consider ships, he just writes moments for the charcaters and people will ship what they will, which is how it should be handled.

 

I have this weird impression about Caroline Dries from this past comic con when she was not with Julie. She sounded less negative towards Bonnie. It's weird. For example, I was watching the comic-con interviews and how she described Bonnie in relation to changing Damon in the TVLine interview was the exact same way Julie Plec described Elena in relation to Damon. Seriously, the wording was exactly the same. So maybe she is just toeing the company line because Julie is her boss? I don't follow either of them or care about them so all I hear about them is from this forum and the only thing I actively remember is this because I remember finding it funny ad ironic that they were so out of sync.

 

Either way it sucks that they are so shitty to both the character and actress. Kat joined their cast super young (I think she was the youngest?) and has probably had quite formative experiences on this stupid show. She seems to really like and respect Julie for some reason. And they always mention being together at "extracurricular" events when at conventions and stuff so I don't get Julie's attitude towards Kat and Bonnie. I hope Kat knows she can do better than begging Julie Plec, her acting has gotten really good and she should expand her horizons instead of being stuck in TVD land. Then again, I don't know her financial situation so maybe she needs the show? But when I see her in interviews with Julie, it seems like she really looks up to her... Quite a shame.

 

Anyhoo, I came here originally to assuage my fears about Bonnie and motherfucking Enzo getting together but it seems you all are having the same fears. Sigh... this show needs to go so I can see Kat in other stuff. Heck even if she went to the Originals she would already be better off. I really want Matt and Bonnie together actually. The spark got ignited when they had that scene by the swimming pool. And somehow, even though he was with both Elena and Caroline, it's just way less gross to me than Bamon. I find it sad that Kat's good chemistry with everyone was squandered. I feel like whenever a pairing with her and whoever works well, they keep her and that scene partner apart or make it so that they can't be together in scenes anymore. I would have loved them to slow burn Matt and Bonnie. I really wanted them together last season, finally holding their asshole vampire friends accountable.

 

Also, I don't know how I feel about her helping Alaric. At first she was clearly humouring him but then got into it. I will just make a headcanon that she got curious as they got closer and closer and that's why she went along with it. I did appreciate them paying some lip service by having her clearly draw the lines.

Maybe if Julie is away, busy with her new show the writing for Bonbon can be halfway decent? I don't know. Fingers crossed, and for all that is holy, please keep Enzo away from her. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sob...

Edited by fantique.
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Anyhoo, I came here originally to assuage my fears about Bonnie and motherfucking Enzo getting together but it seems you all are having the same fears. Sigh... this show needs to go so I can see Kat in other stuff. Heck even if she went to the Originals she would already be better off. I really want Matt and Bonnie together actually. The spark got ignited when they had that scene by the swimming pool. And somehow, even though he was with both Elena and Caroline, it's just way less gross to me than Bamon. I find it sad that Kat's good chemistry with everyone was squandered. I feel like whenever a pairing with her and whoever works well, they keep her and that scene partner apart or make it so that they can't be together in scenes anymore. I would have loved them to slow burn Matt and Bonnie. I really wanted them together last season, finally holding their asshole vampire friends accountable.

 

 

 

I don't really do ships with this show except this one. Like why did they never go there? Matt probably got it worse than Bonnie in the love department. After Caroline most of his other relationships were given minimal focus and attention. At least Bonnie/Jeremy got some development. It's like you said though for some reason whenever Kat/Bonnie had great chemistry with someone the show separated them. After those great moments in season 1 Bonnie and Matt really didn't share any meaningful scenes until like season 6! I foolishly took that to mean they were setting up Batt for season 7 but clearly they are not. 

 

The prospect of Bozo is really dimming my interest in this season. I'm just dreading it. Which isn't a knock against MM. I think he's great and I feel like he'll work with what he's given. I just think getting with Enzo goes against who Bonnie is. The time in 1994 didn't change her that much. I suppose something in this future jump does but I still won't buy it. It just seems like lazy writing. Like they said we can't put her with Damon even though a lot of people want that. Let's just put her with the other 'bad boy' on the show. Blah. 

Edited by Couver.
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To be fair, or helplessly optimistic, I don't think that it's the Damon thing. But yeah... It probably has either something to do with Elena or Matt dies (he's the only one we haven't seen in the future). So yeah...

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So in the episode thread, were speculating on why Bonnie is in the mental home. Who she lost and why. And the choices are either she made a mistake during the upcoming feud with Lily and someone died, or she had sex with Damon that drove him to desiccate himself.

Which really drives home how much her character is a walking plot point. She's suffered worse losses in the past than anything she can come up with now. Yet none of Bonnie's mistakes that led to the loss of members of her family - lifting the seal to free Stefan caused Grams's heart failure, searching for the Cure brought about Silas's freedom and caused her father's murder, helping Stefan's vendetta against Klaus made her get her mother back to town and magic and started the events that led to her becoming a vampire...

Her own insistence on resurrecting Jeremy caused her death. She suffered the agony of being an anchor, then isolation in the Prison World.

None of these drove her to the brink. Even her prison world 'ptsd' just needed a trip back to another prison world to get fixed overnight..

But it's the loss of one of her (white) friends because of a feud gone wrong or sex that makes her check herself into a mental home?

You realize it's Plec and Dries writing her yes? They are the one-two combo of CW's most racist writing, with infamous quotes such as "We realized that Bonnie is just as valuable as the next character." I mean......

Edited by slayer2.
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Jesus!!!!!!!! This quote sounds worse everytime.

Edited by fantique.
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