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Caroline Forbes: Vampire Savant?

Caroline really took to being a vampire very well. She never looses control any more and is really good at dealing with Stefan.

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I have seen a lot of comments regarding Caroline's sleeping with Klaus and I am kind of surprised.  I honestly don't see where she did anything "wrong" because I don't see where it affects anyone else. I know Klaus did some horrible things to the gang, but Caroline was no longer involved with Tyler and she had every right to have one night with a guy she had an attraction to (and had been attracted to for a long time).  Yes, Klaus killed Tyler's mother, but little Miss Caroline killed a bunch of innocent witches (some of whom were probably someone's mother) and the rest of the gang have also killed people. 

 

Maybe I am biased because I liked Klaus and Caroline together...I liked what she brought out in Klaus....but I don't begrudge the two of them their one night together.

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I have seen a lot of comments regarding Caroline's sleeping with Klaus and I am kind of surprised.  I honestly don't see where she did anything "wrong" because I don't see where it affects anyone else. I know Klaus did some horrible things to the gang, but Caroline was no longer involved with Tyler and she had every right to have one night with a guy she had an attraction to (and had been attracted to for a long time).  Yes, Klaus killed Tyler's mother, but little Miss Caroline killed a bunch of innocent witches (some of whom were probably someone's mother) and the rest of the gang have also killed people.

But it's his own mother. Klaus did something very personal and very damaging to Tyler, and even if Caroline was no longer involved with Tyler, she still had to consider the fact that this was his last living relative who he loved dearly, who Klaus killed right after killing all his freed followers. Klaus didn't just hurt Tyler, he practically destroyed his legacy. Most people would consider Tyler perfectly justified in doing everything he could to burn Klaus' life down in response, and yet Caroline was physically intimate with him.

 

I mean, think about it that way. Your closest friends and disciples are executed without mercy after you did everything you could to help them. Then, as the cherry on top, your last living relative, someone who raised you and gave you everything you needed, is murdered violently by the same person. And then, someone who you were once very close to, beyond just being a significant other but almost literally a fellow soldier in a war, decides that of all the people s/he can be attracted to, the murderer is a great person to have sex with. I think Cindy put it best when she pointed out that there's really no other way Tyler can take this. If I were in that scenario, I would do my best never to interact with Caroline on any level ever again.

 

Furthermore, this is Tyler we're talking about, of all people. He's the one guy who sees the big picture and doesn't just decide "if I didn't go to high school with you or any of your immediate family, you are not worth my time." But even if he played by the f-ed up Mystic Falls playbook with the sorting algorithm of mortality, even by MF standards this was low. Actually, by MF standards this was probably worse than it would be otherwise, because Tyler is part of the in-group, as was Carol to an extent. And to his credit, Tyler points out that there are thousands of people who have been victimized by Klaus, including Jenna (who he specifically mentions). The only living characters with a higher body count are Elena and Jeremy, and neither of them has hurt anyone in their core group so fundamentally.

 

(Speaking of Jeremy, if Jeremy had stayed dead, it would have been just as disgusting if Stefan had slept with Katherine under those circumstances. Also, when Stefan and Damon both slept with Rebekah, Elena took it as a personal insult for much the same reason.)

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Here's the way I view this, and all other instances of Character A getting cozy with Character B who has done Bad Things to A's friends/family:

 

The friends and family have NO responsibility to forgive B, and they have no responsibility to continue ANY relationship with A, if they find it intolerable to be friendly with someone who is friendly with B. At the same time, Character A should not have any expectation of a continued relationship with their offended friend/family member, and if they do have one, it should be on that person's terms w/r/t Character B.

 

So, for example, Elena shouldn't expect Caroline to forgive Damon for raping her (for one example), and if they continue to have a friendship, Elena should accept that Caroline will never approve of Damon. If Elena can't accept that, she can choose to end one or the other relationship. It's not on Caroline to make it OK for Elena.

 

By the same token, it's not on Tyler to make it OK for Caroline. But the issue in this instance is whether Tyler does want any kind of relationship with Caroline anymore. I think he does. And I think Caroline would like to be friends with him too. But in her case, she doesn't plan to have any ongoing thing with Klaus, and she does seem to have some level of regret about sleeping with him (even if it's only regret that she hurt others). So I understood her telling Tyler that she was done apologizing. Because what's done is done, and the ball is in his court to let it go or not, but there's nothing more Caroline can really do.

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I see what you are saying, DigitalCount and I can understand Tyler's rage and "not quite ready to forgive" attitude.  It's everyone else's attitude that I cannot get behind.  Elena is sleeping with someone who is just as bad as Klaus (murdering everyone in a family line over something an ancestor did...wrong!) and then we have Stefan and his one night stand with Katherine.  Lots of people to be ashamed of sleeping with in that group. 

 

I think what CarrieAnn said sums it up best and I think that is the way it is being played out.  Caroline apologized to Tyler and, unless I am remembering wrong, everyone else too (who I don't think she should have felt the need to apologize to).  If she made a bad choice in doing the mattress mambo with Klaus, it was still her choice to make and she is the one who gets to decide how much she is going to regret it. 

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I think my problem with the whole Caroline/Klaus situation was that everyone seemed down on Tyler for being mad about it...And I don't think the Stefan sleeping with Katherine thing can even apply in this situation. Because while yes, Katherine was responsible for one Jeremy's deaths....So was Damon (who even admitted the episode or two after that he hadn't known whether or not Jeremy was wearing his ring.) and Elena has slept with/is in a relationship him. So she kind of nullified her right to feel indignant about anything Stefan may or may not be doing.

 

If Caroline wanted to sleep with Klaus, that was on her. She's a big girl and can make her own decision. And she was right...she shouldn't have to apologize repeatedly for it. But it doesn't change the fact that what she did was kind of shitty to her friend. And on top of that being mad at Tyler for not wanting to let bygones be bygones with Klaus when he killed the only family he had left. In TVD timeline, Tyler has lost everyone close to him in under a year...just putting that into perspective. If Tyler wanted to hate Caroline forever, no one has the right to make him feel bad about it, or punch him in the face over it.

Edited by Gwen-Stacys.
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I've been rewatching Vampire Diaries from the beginning and have just started with season 2.  I find it striking how Caroline's relationship with Liz evolved over the years.  I didn't remember Caroline's pretty much constant hostility toward her mother.

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I've been rewatching Vampire Diaries from the beginning and have just started with season 2.  I find it striking how Caroline's relationship with Liz evolved over the years.  I didn't remember Caroline's pretty much constant hostility toward her mother.

I think the hostility was a post-divorce Daddy's Girl + Petulant Teenage Caroline. Her vampirism really served to mend fences with her mom (twice!), yet another thing that improved Caroline post-turning.

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Yes, kariyaki, I agree. In fact I just saw the one where Caroline confessed to Liz that she was a vampire and later compelled her to forget. It looked like the fence-mending began there.

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It occurs to me that every single guy on the show will have fallen for the charms of Caroline Forbes including uber-whinervamp Klaus annnnnnnd Bonnie got Jeremy. Fuck these people.

Edited by slayer2.
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It occurs to me that every single guy on the show will have fallen for the charms of Caroline Forbes including uber-whinervamp Klaus annnnnnnd Bonnie got Jeremy. Fuck these people.

Ehh, I really wouldn't consider what that was between Damon and Caroline as him "falling for her charms." She was more like his human chew toy.

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Even so it matters little what it was and more what Plec thinks it is. Plec sees Caroline as an idealized version of herself and Damon is the epitome of man to her.

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Yeah, but didn't Plec only start to like Caroline after she turned into a vamp? So I don't consider S1 Caroline the same way. S1 Damon didn't care one bit about Caroline, he only used her as a way to get to Stefan and Elena. And Matt was dating her but still half in love with Elena. Caroline only got all the guys from S2 onwards. Although I mean she got douchey S1-S2 Matt and blink-and-you'll-miss-him Tyler, so...not exactly winning in the love department either IMO.

 

Klaus doesn't count (although his random fascination with her seemed the most Mary Sue-ish Caro has ever been to me, when it wasnt just used as a convenient plot device). Klaus is obsessed with, like, half the cast of the shows he has been on. And he'd probably bang half of them too.

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Yeah but Plec didn't have the reins on season 1-2 Caroline. Williamson did, and that Caroline was pretty awesome IMO.

Also Klaus totally counts, he was the most powerful vampire in the TVD universe and could only manage to care about Caroline sometimes above his own family.

Matt and Tyler count too. Tyler's whole transition into a werewolf was a very romantic tale involving Caroline heavily and I was a Forwood shipper for some time because of it. Same for Matt and Caroline and Matt crawling in her window, the two humans against a violent world. All these men are way more than Bonnie has ever gotten.

For all the abuse he heaped Damon was still uber-pimping Caroline to Stefan and telling him and Alaric how hot she was and what a fool Stefan was not to go for it.

Edited by slayer2.
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