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There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane

1 hour ago, iwasish said:

Maybe the clerk realized she was drunk and once he learned about the accident, decided to keep his mouth shut to avoid getting  dragged into a tragedy and possibly named in a lawsuit.  But if he refused to be interviewed, how did they know she was looking for Tylenol?

I think the "looking for Tylenol" was largely a figment of Danny's and his shady attorney's imagination that now has come to be taken as fact. The fact is, we just don't know what she was in there looking for. 

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

I thought I recalled reading somewhere once that the clerk (or someone at the store) said she was asking specifically for Tylenol GelCaps, and they didn't sell those.  Can't remember who he said that to.  It would have had to be someone at the store because the surveillance footage is silent.  So he had to have said something once. 

Gonna try and locate the police report and read it again to confirm. :) 

ETA: Here's the police report (PDF). In #71, it relates how the PI Thomas Ruskin located the recording of Diane at the gas station mini mart. The investigator from the State Police went to interview the clerk who then refused to speak to him.

ETA2: That police report also indicates (but doesn't conclude wrongdoing) that the brother in law and Danny were making up stories about calling various police departments trying to locate Diane that morning. I also believe that Jackie refused to talk to the state police as well. That family is hiding *something.* Frankly, if it only involved family members she killed, I wouldn't care. If they want to keep the secrets in the family in that case -- fine. But she killed other people and those families have a right to know. And have a right to compensation.  

Edited by Giant Misfit.
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I was thinking about how the witnesses said Diane was staring straight ahead as if in a trance. This could have been because she was high. She could have been zoned out like some people get when they're stoned, just sitting and staring at the wall kind of thing.

Mannahatta, I don't know if the coroner tested for Ambien. Good question. But whether or not she was on it doesn't seem that significant given the level of alcohol and THC she had in her system. I wonder why that theory is so popular. Is it an attempt to make Diane more sympathetic? 

Does anyone know how the boy is doing now? He should be around 11 or 12, correct? Heatherchandler, does the book mention if the Hances are still in touch with Daniel? It would also be interesting to know how this tragedy has affected their marriage. 

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38 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I was thinking about how the witnesses said Diane was staring straight ahead as if in a trance. This could have been because she was high. She could have been zoned out like some people get when they're stoned, just sitting and staring at the wall kind of thing.

Mannahatta, I don't know if the coroner tested for Ambien. Good question. But whether or not she was on it doesn't seem that significant given the level of alcohol and THC she had in her system. I wonder why that theory is so popular. Is it an attempt to make Diane more sympathetic? 

Does anyone know how the boy is doing now? He should be around 11 or 12, correct? Heatherchandler, does the book mention if the Hances are still in touch with Daniel? It would also be interesting to know how this tragedy has affected their marriage. 

I didn't read the book, just an excerpt in a magazine, but the Hances  did have another baby afterward. What I took from the bit I read was that they seemed resigned to what happened.  Kind of like they put the whole thing in a closet and only take out the things that they can deal with, Diane's part in the accident.. victim or perpetrator is in a box in that closet, but I don't think they will ever open it. No one will. Except maybe Bryan sometime in the future. 

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16 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

Mannahatta, I don't know if the coroner tested for Ambien. Good question. But whether or not she was on it doesn't seem that significant given the level of alcohol and THC she had in her system. I wonder why that theory is so popular. Is it an attempt to make Diane more sympathetic? 

I think it's just a combination of armchair sleuths thinking that they've figured it all out, and people not willing to think this woman did the unthinkable.  I enjoy armchair sleuthing as much as the next person, and I've never purported anything I've surmised to be the truth because we'll never know, but I don't think it was a factor if for no other reason than her family would be parading it around for the world to see, and calling it "case closed".  It would allow them to save a lot of face, and render Diane "blameless".  But the undeniable fact that it was only mentioned in passing in the movie, and the lawyers and investigators they hired (all to help them save face) never pursued it tells me most of what I need to know.  That it wasn't a factor.  They spent all kinds of time talking about her dental issues, and tried blaming it on that instead.  So it makes no sense.  Before IMDB closed their boards down, anyone who didn't think it was Ambien was run out of the forum on a rail.  I took Ambien for insomnia.  I never really helped me, and so I stopped.  There are some people who claim that Ambien makes them sleepwalk, sleep drive, sleep eat, etc.  Some people have used it as a defense for crimes committed.  The high profile case in New York was one of the Kennedy family who was busted for DUI but blamed Ambien, and won.  So there's no way they would have let that go if they could have used it.

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23 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I think it's just a combination of armchair sleuths thinking that they've figured it all out, and people not willing to think this woman did the unthinkable.  I enjoy armchair sleuthing as much as the next person, and I've never purported anything I've surmised to be the truth because we'll never know, but I don't think it was a factor if for no other reason than her family would be parading it around for the world to see, and calling it "case closed".  It would allow them to save a lot of face, and render Diane "blameless".  But the undeniable fact that it was only mentioned in passing in the movie, and the lawyers and investigators they hired (all to help them save face) never pursued it tells me most of what I need to know.  That it wasn't a factor.  They spent all kinds of time talking about her dental issues, and tried blaming it on that instead.  So it makes no sense.  Before IMDB closed their boards down, anyone who didn't think it was Ambien was run out of the forum on a rail.  I took Ambien for insomnia.  I never really helped me, and so I stopped.  There are some people who claim that Ambien makes them sleepwalk, sleep drive, sleep eat, etc.  Some people have used it as a defense for crimes committed.  The high profile case in New York was one of the Kennedy family who was busted for DUI but blamed Ambien, and won.  So there's no way they would have let that go if they could have used it.

Dominick Barbera, the family lawyer was the type of lawyer who knew just how to use that bit about Ambien to give anyone who wanted to find an excuse just that. Was it ever even proven that she had a prescription for Ambien?

I can get why the family is desperate to believe it was something other than Diane at fault. Sadly you can't argue with her BAC and the bottle they found.  

I would love an update on her husband and son though.

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5 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Dominick Barbera, the family lawyer was the type of lawyer who knew just how to use that bit about Ambien to give anyone who wanted to find an excuse just that. Was it ever even proven that she had a prescription for Ambien?

I can get why the family is desperate to believe it was something other than Diane at fault. Sadly you can't argue with her BAC and the bottle they found.  

I would love an update on her husband and son though.

Danny and his sister were looking over medical records for the zillionth time, and his sister says something like "Oh, here's where she was prescribed Ambien" or something like that, and it's immediately on to something else.  So yes, she was prescribed it, but we don't know whether she even took it or not.  If you look through my medical records, you'll find I was prescribed painkillers after several operations, but I never took them.

I was curious about the family today, but couldn't find anything.

The other big WTF moment I took away from this that no one ever really answered was the tooth thing - her making appointments to have it fixed, then not showing up, or once getting up in the middle of the procedure and then leaving.  So much with this story that we'll never know.....

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1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

Danny and his sister were looking over medical records for the zillionth time, and his sister says something like "Oh, here's where she was prescribed Ambien" or something like that, and it's immediately on to something else.  So yes, she was prescribed it, but we don't know whether she even took it or not.  If you look through my medical records, you'll find I was prescribed painkillers after several operations, but I never took them.

I was curious about the family today, but couldn't find anything.

The other big WTF moment I took away from this that no one ever really answered was the tooth thing - her making appointments to have it fixed, then not showing up, or once getting up in the middle of the procedure and then leaving.  So much with this story that we'll never know.....

Why make dental appointments and not keep them? I hate going to the dentist, but I hate dental pain more. NOTHING is worse than a bad toothache.  NO way would I go camping with 5 kids if I had a toothache. I suspect it was another case of grasping at straws to deflect attention away from the obvious.... "booze"

And even if it were a toothache, that doesn't excuse downing that much alcohol and driving 5 kids around. Matter of fact it makes her a pretty shitty mother. So we know it wasn't a tragic accident... what does that leave us with?  She either used the booze to get the nerve to kill herself and the kids, or she was just so drunk that she didn't/couldn't care.

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On 5/22/2017 at 3:54 AM, Giant Misfit said:

I don't think he was directly involved, but indirectly? Yes. I think he knew she was drunk/drinking and let her drive anyway because he just didn't care. If he admitted to knowing that, it's likely he'd open himself up to possible criminal -- and more than likely civil -- prosecution. 

Frankly, I think they all knew.

What troubles me most is that the gas station/quik-e-mart cashier refused all requests for police interviews.  (That was noted in the police report [which is available online] but wasn't mentioned in the doc.)

I've always suspected the husband was not actually a good guy. Probably not physically abusive, but maybe mantaly. I always thought the way Diane's friends talked about him in the documentary was unsettling. They all seemed to say he was a good husband but in a way that implied they hated him.

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1 hour ago, FozzyBear said:

I've always suspected the husband was not actually a good guy. Probably not physically abusive, but maybe mantaly. I always thought the way Diane's friends talked about him in the documentary was unsettling. They all seemed to say he was a good husband but in a way that implied they hated him.

  

It seemed she was desperate to marry, maybe figured he was her only chance at it. She cut every friend out of her life after they married. Was that her choice or his?   Clearly her mother deserting (at least in Diane's mind) the family, affected her tremendously. She strived to be the perfect wife and mother.  By the time she realized he was pretty useless as a partner, she'd had the kids and was  kind of between a rock and a hard place. Leave, and break up a family, doing exactly what she wouldn't forgive her mother for, or stay and suffer in silence. I guess the booze/pot helped her deal.

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It had been a good while since I saw this, so I decided to re-watch.  This is what jumped out at me:

Her brother speaking at the funeral, and knowing that just a few days later, everything they thought they knew was wrong.

At about 14 minutes in, her mother is brought up for the first time.  Danny and Jay both say that she didn't want to discuss it and they didn't push, but Jay said this, and it stood out:  "I imagine it had a big impact on her.  Like she was totally going to be there for HER kids.  And never leave THEM.  And that's why we find it so ironic".  When I first watch this, it jumped out at me too. It was my first inclination that she did this on purpose.

The family of one of the victims in the other car hit the nail on the head.  She forgave Diane and prays for her, but the family is shady as all get out, and they need to quit lying and denying, and man up.

It bothered me the way her mother-in-law (Danny's Mom) laughed about everything, and talked about how she didn't understand how she could stop by her house, go home, feed the kids, bathe the kids, put them to bed, wait for Danny and make him something to eat, and then still have time to do laundry and make photo books.  And it still bothered me about how she felt Danny was Diane's oldest kid, and she seemed very proud of the way she spoiled him, and expected Diane to spoil him.

The mom of the girl (also named Erin) who went to preschool with Bryan said she was the first one at preschool every.single.day.  The kids were impeccably dressed without a hair out of place, never any toothpaste on their mouth, etc.  Always the one to chaperone trips, volunteer to organize something, etc.

I was wrong about them physically mentioning Ambien.  The camera showed it on her medical records.  Jay said "Did she have trouble sleeping?".  Danny said "No".  There WAS physical mention of Percocet.

Three wrong numbers called.  I wish they would have said it was the same number or not.  The fact that she called her brother by her husband's name was creepy.

At around 50 minutes in, they interview her "best friend" (as an adult) who says that Diane had to have everything perfect, and that as long as everything was going OK and she was in control, she was fine, but if she didn't like you, she didn't hesitate to let you know - like if she felt someone was rude, she'd call them out on it right there.  The friend said Diane was so controlling that she wouldn't allow the friend to follow her GPS if she didn't feel it was the "correct" route.  That friend said that she was happy and content and if she was unhappy, she'd say so, but in the same breath, said that she didn't discuss her personal life.

The high school friends then say she abruptly cut them off, and only one was invited to her wedding, and she chose to not go because of the way she cut them all off.  They seem exponentially more upset than her "adult" best friend.

Lots of talk about her rubbing her jaw, as if to perpetuate the bad tooth myth.  Later, they review her dental records which say she has grinding, broken fillings, cracked teeth......all signs of stress.  She was probably rubbing her jaw due to TMJ.  I get TMJ.  It can really hurt.  It does not, however, cause me to get drunk and high.  Jay says Diane always hid pain she was in, telling people she was fine, and never told anyone she was going to the doctor ever.

Adult best friend is interviewed again.  Says Diane's mom was a non-issue to Diane.  Says she knows why the mom left and all the details, but she won't speak it.  High school friends say the entire family was angry, and the mom ran off with the neighbor.  Danny's brother said he spoke to Diane's mom once, who said "I'm not the bad person" and he relayed the message to Diane who wasn't "having any of it".  Someone from New York magazine re-iterates all of her brothers had a relationship with their mother, and that she tried to repair the rift many times with Diane, but she shut it down.  Diane's mother wouldn't be interviewed for the film.  I really wish she would have, but it could have been out of respect for her son and his massive loss.

They mention that her voice mail on her cell phone still had her maiden name.  Always struck me as odd.  She had been married for several years by that point.

They don't say how she got the pot in her system.  I often wonder if in her drunken state she accidentally consumed an edible.  Even drunk, it's hard to conceive that she smoked in front of the kids, but it's possible.  Earlier, a witness says he looked like she was about to puke at the rest area.  Pot can help with nausea, so maybe it wasn't a mistake, but we'll never know.

Ugh.  The forensic psychiatrist telling them over and over it was booze, and Jay and Danny just arguing.  "She had a stroke because of her tooth and drank the vodka thinking was water".  NO...just.....NO.  STOP IT.  The doctor says over and over that the was NO evidence of a stroke.  He humors them on the tooth pain, but still goes back to the booze, and they refuse to accept it.  Please slap them.  "It doesn't make any sense me trying to convince you.  You have to have your satisfaction."  "I sincerely hope you find peace with this".  Not likely.  Then the infamous "No one in my family knows I smoke".  Sounds about right.

And now it's time to shift the blame to the investigator, who was slimy, no doubt, but of course, it's now all his fault.  And Danny is blameless, because he's just working so hard to take care of his son........of course Jay begs to differ.  And we see Danny has a 2nd side that is refusing to let his son grieve, and Jay finally gets Bryan in to counseling.  He should have been there ages ago.  And while Danny speaks about Diane as a saint and wants to clear her name, he secretly hates her for dying, having kids, and leaving him to deal with the kid he didn't want.  Nominate this man for father of the year.

I couldn't remember who brought up the Gelcaps.  It was the forensic psychiatrist.  Even the alcohol expert can't explain it.  She humors the theories, but doesn't confirm them.

Quasi-Slimy investigator blames the attorney, Danny, etc.  Jay reluctantly admits the attorney told her not to answer his calls.  I think the attorney got the results that show that the results were correct, and he hides it.  The investigator brings up the possibility that Diane may have done this purposely.

Info overload. 1.7 miles driving the wrong way.  Off-duty cop at the scene says "multiple fatalities".  And the eyewitnesses.  Ugh.  Heartbreaking.  I'm so pissed at her right now.  The photos of her body don't bother me anymore.  I'm shocked she looks as good as she does, and not more of a mess.  And the guy praying to make the little girl wake up.  I hope wherever Diane is, she's hot.  And I hope the man that tried to help finds some peace.

Forensic psychiatrist says he doesn't believe she killed herself (I disagree) but he can't explain why this happened. 

Breaks my heart that Erin is barely mentioned, and only really by Jay, who was her God Mother, and then she still barely mentions her.

I thought I remembered someone saying that Jackie talked to Diane at one point - possibly on her one daughter's phone, and she plays off things by saying the kids are "just playing around".  Maybe it was something I read.

Alcohol expert says that if someone suffers an extreme trauma when they're young, it changes their mental processes, and can predispose them to addictive tendencies and mood disorders.  I know this first hand - my husband's mother severely abused him physically and mentally.  His father, who would act as a buffer, died very suddenly when my husband was 8.  He began drinking at age 15.  He hid it well.  By the time I met him, he was a full-blown binge drinker, but only on the weekends, so during the week he functioned normally.  He quit drinking a few years later, but that bad habit was just replaced in succession after succession with other things, all of which he hid well.  After re-watching, I still believe she killed herself and took the kids with her.  Something made her snap, just like something made my husband snap (twice).  He twice wanted to kill himself, but thankfully both times he was at work, and was not being altered by any substance or anything, and his conscience kicked in - not for himself, but for him possibly injuring or hurting others.  She needed mind altering substances to go through with it.  Again, my opinion.  I don't purport it to be the correct one.  We'll never know.

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18 hours ago, funky-rat said:

It had been a good while since I saw this, so I decided to re-watch.  This is what jumped out at me:

Her brother speaking at the funeral, and knowing that just a few days later, everything they thought they knew was wrong.

At about 14 minutes in, her mother is brought up for the first time.  Danny and Jay both say that she didn't want to discuss it and they didn't push, but Jay said this, and it stood out:  "I imagine it had a big impact on her.  Like she was totally going to be there for HER kids.  And never leave THEM.  And that's why we find it so ironic".  When I first watch this, it jumped out at me too. It was my first inclination that she did this on purpose.

The family of one of the victims in the other car hit the nail on the head.  She forgave Diane and prays for her, but the family is shady as all get out, and they need to quit lying and denying, and man up.

It bothered me the way her mother-in-law (Danny's Mom) laughed about everything, and talked about how she didn't understand how she could stop by her house, go home, feed the kids, bathe the kids, put them to bed, wait for Danny and make him something to eat, and then still have time to do laundry and make photo books.  And it still bothered me about how she felt Danny was Diane's oldest kid, and she seemed very proud of the way she spoiled him, and expected Diane to spoil him.

The mom of the girl (also named Erin) who went to preschool with Bryan said she was the first one at preschool every.single.day.  The kids were impeccably dressed without a hair out of place, never any toothpaste on their mouth, etc.  Always the one to chaperone trips, volunteer to organize something, etc.

I was wrong about them physically mentioning Ambien.  The camera showed it on her medical records.  Jay said "Did she have trouble sleeping?".  Danny said "No".  There WAS physical mention of Percocet.

Three wrong numbers called.  I wish they would have said it was the same number or not.  The fact that she called her brother by her husband's name was creepy.

At around 50 minutes in, they interview her "best friend" (as an adult) who says that Diane had to have everything perfect, and that as long as everything was going OK and she was in control, she was fine, but if she didn't like you, she didn't hesitate to let you know - like if she felt someone was rude, she'd call them out on it right there.  The friend said Diane was so controlling that she wouldn't allow the friend to follow her GPS if she didn't feel it was the "correct" route.  That friend said that she was happy and content and if she was unhappy, she'd say so, but in the same breath, said that she didn't discuss her personal life.

The high school friends then say she abruptly cut them off, and only one was invited to her wedding, and she chose to not go because of the way she cut them all off.  They seem exponentially more upset than her "adult" best friend.

Lots of talk about her rubbing her jaw, as if to perpetuate the bad tooth myth.  Later, they review her dental records which say she has grinding, broken fillings, cracked teeth......all signs of stress.  She was probably rubbing her jaw due to TMJ.  I get TMJ.  It can really hurt.  It does not, however, cause me to get drunk and high.  Jay says Diane always hid pain she was in, telling people she was fine, and never told anyone she was going to the doctor ever.

Adult best friend is interviewed again.  Says Diane's mom was a non-issue to Diane.  Says she knows why the mom left and all the details, but she won't speak it.  High school friends say the entire family was angry, and the mom ran off with the neighbor.  Danny's brother said he spoke to Diane's mom once, who said "I'm not the bad person" and he relayed the message to Diane who wasn't "having any of it".  Someone from New York magazine re-iterates all of her brothers had a relationship with their mother, and that she tried to repair the rift many times with Diane, but she shut it down.  Diane's mother wouldn't be interviewed for the film.  I really wish she would have, but it could have been out of respect for her son and his massive loss.

They mention that her voice mail on her cell phone still had her maiden name.  Always struck me as odd.  She had been married for several years by that point.

They don't say how she got the pot in her system.  I often wonder if in her drunken state she accidentally consumed an edible.  Even drunk, it's hard to conceive that she smoked in front of the kids, but it's possible.  Earlier, a witness says he looked like she was about to puke at the rest area.  Pot can help with nausea, so maybe it wasn't a mistake, but we'll never know.

Ugh.  The forensic psychiatrist telling them over and over it was booze, and Jay and Danny just arguing.  "She had a stroke because of her tooth and drank the vodka thinking was water".  NO...just.....NO.  STOP IT.  The doctor says over and over that the was NO evidence of a stroke.  He humors them on the tooth pain, but still goes back to the booze, and they refuse to accept it.  Please slap them.  "It doesn't make any sense me trying to convince you.  You have to have your satisfaction."  "I sincerely hope you find peace with this".  Not likely.  Then the infamous "No one in my family knows I smoke".  Sounds about right.

And now it's time to shift the blame to the investigator, who was slimy, no doubt, but of course, it's now all his fault.  And Danny is blameless, because he's just working so hard to take care of his son........of course Jay begs to differ.  And we see Danny has a 2nd side that is refusing to let his son grieve, and Jay finally gets Bryan in to counseling.  He should have been there ages ago.  And while Danny speaks about Diane as a saint and wants to clear her name, he secretly hates her for dying, having kids, and leaving him to deal with the kid he didn't want.  Nominate this man for father of the year.

I couldn't remember who brought up the Gelcaps.  It was the forensic psychiatrist.  Even the alcohol expert can't explain it.  She humors the theories, but doesn't confirm them.

Quasi-Slimy investigator blames the attorney, Danny, etc.  Jay reluctantly admits the attorney told her not to answer his calls.  I think the attorney got the results that show that the results were correct, and he hides it.  The investigator brings up the possibility that Diane may have done this purposely.

Info overload. 1.7 miles driving the wrong way.  Off-duty cop at the scene says "multiple fatalities".  And the eyewitnesses.  Ugh.  Heartbreaking.  I'm so pissed at her right now.  The photos of her body don't bother me anymore.  I'm shocked she looks as good as she does, and not more of a mess.  And the guy praying to make the little girl wake up.  I hope wherever Diane is, she's hot.  And I hope the man that tried to help finds some peace.

Forensic psychiatrist says he doesn't believe she killed herself (I disagree) but he can't explain why this happened. 

Breaks my heart that Erin is barely mentioned, and only really by Jay, who was her God Mother, and then she still barely mentions her.

I thought I remembered someone saying that Jackie talked to Diane at one point - possibly on her one daughter's phone, and she plays off things by saying the kids are "just playing around".  Maybe it was something I read.

Alcohol expert says that if someone suffers an extreme trauma when they're young, it changes their mental processes, and can predispose them to addictive tendencies and mood disorders.  I know this first hand - my husband's mother severely abused him physically and mentally.  His father, who would act as a buffer, died very suddenly when my husband was 8.  He began drinking at age 15.  He hid it well.  By the time I met him, he was a full-blown binge drinker, but only on the weekends, so during the week he functioned normally.  He quit drinking a few years later, but that bad habit was just replaced in succession after succession with other things, all of which he hid well.  After re-watching, I still believe she killed herself and took the kids with her.  Something made her snap, just like something made my husband snap (twice).  He twice wanted to kill himself, but thankfully both times he was at work, and was not being altered by any substance or anything, and his conscience kicked in - not for himself, but for him possibly injuring or hurting others.  She needed mind altering substances to go through with it.  Again, my opinion.  I don't purport it to be the correct one.  We'll never know.

I agree with this totally. It is hard to imagine anyone doing it deliberately, but no other explanation makes sense. She wanted to be the perfect mother/wife/businesswoman and so far she had pulled it off. But she couldn't maintain it forever and she knew her husband wouldn't or couldn't or just plain didn't want to.be bothered. She couldn't just leave, not after hating her own mother for doing just that.

What triggered it that day? Who knows? But if it wasn't then it would have been eventually. Taking her brother's kids? They could have just been collateral damage or a vindictive act against him also. But it was deliberate.

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2 hours ago, ChickenLatte99 said:

Where can I find this to watch?

It's on HBONOW/HBOGo. YouTube also has it:

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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 9:37 PM, ChickenLatte99 said:

Where can I find this to watch?

YouTube.

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I don't believe this was a suicide.  The independent examiner in the documentary who performed the forensic psychiatric autopsy even said there was no indication that she was suicidal, and that even if she were this wouldn't be the method she would choose.  Obviously none of us can know for certain what her state of mind was, but I'm more inclined to believe it was just a delirium.  She's under the influence of so much alcohol that she's no longer thinking straight.  I think trying to assign any intentionality  to leaving the phone where it was found, driving the wrong way "on a mission", etc. would be a tough sell.  Plus, she had plenty of opportunities before that moment to cause a car accident and hadn't.  

On 5/9/2017 at 0:28 PM, ZaldamoWilder said:

By the time she goes into the gas station convenience store looking for the gel caps, she has the equivalent of 10 drinks in her system? right? 

She had the equivalent of 10 drinks in her when the accident happened, but that was 2.5 hours after her visit to the the gas station.  I don't think I've seen anything saying she was already drunk by that point in the morning.  I think that since she seemed fine at breakfast and the gas station that there's a good chance all the drinking would have happened after that.

On 5/5/2017 at 10:12 AM, heatherchandler said:

 I believe she was also having an affair, but was very good at keeping that a secret as well.  I think that she was upset with her husband, as they had a fight that morning, and she was out to get drunk and high.  Then, she makes that phone call on the road... which is only for a brief amount of time, but that was when she put the phone on the side of the road and lost her mind.  That phone call made her snap.

That's an interesting theory.  I would just assume the wrong number is her misdialing because she's drunk or maybe one of the kids frantically trying to dial somebody (anybody!) to help.  If that's the same area code as her home, then I don't think it's all that surprising she'd get somebody who lives near her office.  There were 3 or 4 misdials during those few minutes.  I don't know if they were the same number or different numbers, but there wouldn't have been a ton of time to have a conversation.  

My belief is that she was under some time pressure to get the kids back for play rehearsal, they were running a little late, and the one place she stopped didn't have the pain reliever she was looking for.  Rather than trying to stop somewhere else because of the time, she just decided a swig of vodka would get her through until she could get everybody back home.  For whatever reason, she drank more than she intended to and wound up completely drunk.  Sadly, the rest was just a series of bad decisions. She gets disoriented getting off the Tappan Zee Bridge.  Maybe she winds up on the ramp to 287 instead of 87.  Then to correct, she wants to head south on the Saw Mill River Parkway but ends up heading north.  There's no ramp from the Saw Mill to the Taconic going south, so she's getting more and more frantic to get back on track.  The exit ramp she entered the Taconic southbound at is kind of an isolated ramp (a ways down the road on the other side of the parkway from the entrance she's looking for).  All just guesses on my part, but I'm saying I can see how somebody that drunk could make that series of mistakes without meaning to.

Whether she was used to coping with problems by drinking alcohol we'll never know.  It wouldn't surprise me if she had a habit of drinking to keep everything running smoothly with the kids.  Goodness knows Danny's not a huge help on that front.  He's also probably not observant enough to notice if she's drinking when he heads off to work.  He didn't seem to know anything about the situation with her mother (even though her friends did), her dental work, her medical history, and on and on.  I'm guessing he didn't take too much of an interest in what she was doing or feeling.

Just a sad story all the way around.

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Watched this again. I have always been perplexed by Jay. She comes across as extremely sweet but also so enthusiastic to be part of this situation. I'm not saying she was happy about it, but it seems as if this was the most exciting thing to ever happen to her. Or maybe, that she wanted to step into Diane's shoes as supermom, and to save the day. Sadly, this is a situation where heroism is not possible. 

Also it makes me uncomfortable that Daniel and Jay were just so out of their league. Dominic Barbara is the quintessential Long Island sleazy lawyer (love how he namedropped Buttafuoco and Jessica Hahn) who loves the spotlight, and these people were not ready for prime time. Their story, in particular, was impossible to sell. When Larry King doesn't take you seriously, you need to get yourself off TV. Then sitting down with that world renowned toxicologist, who was unbelievably gracious with them--I was embarrassed for them. And then the bonus--that awkward phone call where she's crying on the shoulder of the shady prosecutor. "What am I gonna do, Tom?" Um, not use this phone call to extend your 15 minutes of phone? 

 

Also, Sarah, I am listening to The Blotter Presents, and enjoying. I think the migraine theory is extremely plausible, which makes me think, how freaking useless was Danny Schuler that Diane would not pick up the phone and call him to pick the kids up. She'd rather drive with five kids in the car, a blinding migraine, and hammered than stop the car and let her husband come get the kids. 

Edited by lovinbob.
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I'm going to point out something the family kept mentioning but nobody has brought up: when Danny and Jay were meeting with the medical examiner, they were once again saying that Diane did not intentionally get drunk and asked if a stroke or seizure could cause the autopsy results to be wrong. The medical examiner pointed out the alcohol results will always prevail. The family doesn't appear to understand that even if she didn't get drunk on purpose, the results of the autopsy will be the same. It can't guess whether she intended to get drunk or smoke.

I do not think this was suicide because they said Diane would never intentionally leave her kids after what her mother did. Also, Byran said that "mommy had a headache and she could not see", so Diane must have told the kids that at some point. I wonder if the family has considered a hypnotist to see if Byran could regain more of his memory.

Regarding the other family filing a lawsuit, I recall there being something about how Diane's brother is actually liable since it was his car.

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This documentary is so scary, I can understand why it haunts people.

I 100% agree with the posters who think this was a suicide murder. I especially agree with the poster who pointed out that she drove with purpose and determination. She was focused on a task and that task wasn't about getting the kids home safely. It was about ending things on her twisted terms. She strikes me as someone who was steeling herself up to do the unthinkable. The vodka was liquid courage and the trip to McDonalds was her messed up way of giving the kids a final meal and a positive memory.

I disagree with the theory that she didn't know what she was doing or that she was stressed out because she was supposedly running late. The brother was willing to come and pick the kids up so she could have waited. There wasn't a sense of urgency in terms of her upsetting people for being late. She chose to make a series of stops for whatever reason but if she'd been that concerned about getting the kids home or not wanting to be responsible for them for the rest of the day, she could have taken the opportunity to let her brother pick up the kids.

She deliberately left her phone. IMO she cut off communication so that she could go through with her horrible plan. 

They don't make them much lower than the husband. How on earth he could sue his brother in law after what happened is too sick making. 

Edited by Avaleigh.
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On 2/4/2018 at 5:52 PM, Kat20 said:

I'm going to point out something the family kept mentioning but nobody has brought up: when Danny and Jay were meeting with the medical examiner, they were once again saying that Diane did not intentionally get drunk and asked if a stroke or seizure could cause the autopsy results to be wrong. The medical examiner pointed out the alcohol results will always prevail. The family doesn't appear to understand that even if she didn't get drunk on purpose, the results of the autopsy will be the same. It can't guess whether she intended to get drunk or smoke.

I do not think this was suicide because they said Diane would never intentionally leave her kids after what her mother did. Also, Byran said that "mommy had a headache and she could not see", so Diane must have told the kids that at some point. I wonder if the family has considered a hypnotist to see if Byran could regain more of his memory.

Regarding the other family filing a lawsuit, I recall there being something about how Diane's brother is actually liable since it was his car.

I don’t think she would have killed herself and left her kids.. I think she killed them AND herself. She had to be the perfect mother, wife, employee and the stress was too much. Like so many other parents that kill  their kids and themselves, she felt they were better off dead with her than left with daddy, cause no one could be the perfect parent she was.

There were lots of secrets in this family. Lots of stuff that was just never spoken about or even acknowledged, I think her drinking was one of those things. 

That day may have been a perfect storm of circumstances and she cracked. But I’ll never believe it was anything other than a murder/suicide.

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7 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I don’t think she would have killed herself and left her kids.. I think she killed them AND herself. She had to be the perfect mother, wife, employee and the stress was too much. Like so many other parents that kill  their kids and themselves, she felt they were better off dead with her than left with daddy, cause no one could be the perfect parent she was.

There were lots of secrets in this family. Lots of stuff that was just never spoken about or even acknowledged, I think her drinking was one of those things. 

That day may have been a perfect storm of circumstances and she cracked. But I’ll never believe it was anything other than a murder/suicide.

Agreed.  I've lived through someone else's psychotic break.  They were ready to drive head-on in to an oncoming tractor trailer, but luckily at the last minute their conscience kicked in, and they were afraid they'd live, but someone else would die.  I still believe something happened early in the day - before she left the campground - and her constant driving around and drinking was an effort to shut her conscience down.

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Something else that just popped in to my head that is kind-of related to this.  I am in Al-Anon, for families/friends of alcoholics (my husband is in AA).  We had a speaker at an event we hosted about 2 years ago.  She was the spouse of a hardcore alcoholic.  He was constantly losing jobs, or a job would transfer him to another division to get him off of their hands.  They moved a lot.  She lost her support system (her family and friends, who were now several states away).  She said she knew he was drinking and driving, and kept her kids out of the car with him, and she refused to go anywhere with him driving.  Ever.  Before she got in to the program, she reached a point where she said it would be more of a relief if he wrapped his car around a tree and she never had to deal with him again.  She couldn't leave right away because he made the money, and she couldn't get a job because she was afraid he'd get the kids and drive drunk with them.  She was too embarrassed to tell friends and family that she needed help, and his family were all alcoholics, and wouldn't help anyway, and would likely blame her.  She said it got so bad that she actually would sit around after the kids went to bed and her husband was AWOL, and practice looking sad and what she'd say when the day came when cops would show up and tell her he was dead, in the back of her mind thinking of nothing but relief.  In the end, he cleaned up and has been sober for some time, but the situations are similar.  I do think most people knew Diane was a drunk, and just wanted to keep up appearances (hell, Danny and Jay are still doing that), but it's also possible there's some sort of relief amongst these people (that Diane is gone - not the kids, except for maybe Danny), and they're just doing their best to hide that fact by refusing to speak to anyone.  The speaker I saw said there was the demented feeling that if he died, there would be no more grief, no more late nights wondering where he was, and she could just tell people her husband died in an accident and no one would criticize her (she would have gone back home, and that news wouldn't have gotten back home - there was no internet or cell phones then).  Our psyche can do strange things when it's stressed to the breaking point.

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On 3/14/2018 at 1:44 PM, Kat20 said:

Update: Diane's mom Eileen died in Oct.2013. According to her obituary, she doesn't appear to have been married at the time.

Here is the article that the NY Magazine reporter did. There is a quote from Eileen.

Her mom looked a lot like her.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 2:19 PM, iwasish said:

...Like so many other parents that kill  their kids and themselves, she felt they were better off dead with her than left with daddy, cause no one could be the perfect parent she was.

There were lots of secrets in this family. Lots of stuff that was just never spoken about or even acknowledged, I think her drinking was one of those things. 

 

So many secrets!  That’s why the stories just don’t add up.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 2:27 PM, funky-rat said:

Agreed.  I've lived through someone else's psychotic break.  They were ready to drive head-on in to an oncoming tractor trailer, but luckily at the last minute their conscience kicked in, and they were afraid they'd live, but someone else would die.  I still believe something happened early in the day - before she left the campground - and her constant driving around and drinking was an effort to shut her conscience down.

I agree, something happened to make her snap.  And she decided to chug the bottle to give herself the numbness to be able to kill herself.

I believe the “wrong number” was not a wrong number.  If you look at the timeline, that’s where everything went haywire.  I wrote this upthread as well but, I believe she was having an affair, but was very good at keeping that a secret as well.  

She makes that phone call on the road... which is only for a brief amount of time, but that was when she put the phone on the side of the road and lost her mind.  That phone call made her snap.

I really wonder how thoroughly they looked into the man who received the “wrong number.”  The house was close to her work.

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My heart aches for the parents of the little girls.  I have to say, though, that the little boy saddens me the most because he lost his mother and was left was a profoundly disengaged, distant, jackass dad.

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do you know, I can imagine being in such a desperate state over life that you feel like you want to die and you don't want to leave your kids on earth?  (okay, no I can't, not at all, and for that I feel very blessed but anyway...)

how on God's green earth could Diane Schuler have rationalized killing her brother's children?  that's the part that I'm most having trouble wrapping my brain around.

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I am not suicidal, thank god, but I have been in dark places in my life. During these times, I have thought that I wished I could disappear, but I knew that I would never want to abandon my children. So I can see that "logic," for lack of a better word, in child-parent murder-suicide. Especially since Diane was the dominant parent—I can imagine her thinking that her kids would be better off dead than being raised by Danny.

I completely agree, though, that killing her nieces makes absolutely no sense, whether in an a rational or irrational sense. That's why I don't think this was deliberate suicide. I think she unintentionally got blackout drunk, perhaps not realizing how fast she was drinking and underestimating how the alcohol would interact with the marijuana in her system.

The other reason I don't think it was deliberate suicide is that I can't imagine believing that everyone would be killed in the crash. In a way, I'm surprised that only Brian survived. If she really wanted to commit suicide and take her kids with her, I would think she'd find another way.

I realize that assigning logic to this woman, who clearly suffered from mental illness, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It just leaves me feeling that the only thing I'll ever know for sure about this horrible tragedy is that I will never know for sure.

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On 5/10/2018 at 10:40 AM, lovinbob said:

I am not suicidal, thank god, but I have been in dark places in my life. During these times, I have thought that I wished I could disappear, but I knew that I would never want to abandon my children. So I can see that "logic," for lack of a better word, in child-parent murder-suicide. Especially since Diane was the dominant parent—I can imagine her thinking that her kids would be better off dead than being raised by Danny.

I completely agree, though, that killing her nieces makes absolutely no sense, whether in an a rational or irrational sense. That's why I don't think this was deliberate suicide. I think she unintentionally got blackout drunk, perhaps not realizing how fast she was drinking and underestimating how the alcohol would interact with the marijuana in her system.

The other reason I don't think it was deliberate suicide is that I can't imagine believing that everyone would be killed in the crash. In a way, I'm surprised that only Brian survived. If she really wanted to commit suicide and take her kids with her, I would think she'd find another way.

I realize that assigning logic to this woman, who clearly suffered from mental illness, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It just leaves me feeling that the only thing I'll ever know for sure about this horrible tragedy is that I will never know for sure.

I think there was an argument with the brother when the niece called home. I think he realized she was drunk and called her on it. Even though he knew she drank, I think he never imagined she would get drunk with the kids in the car, she was “too  perfect a mom”. I believe she was enraged that he dared bring that up and It triggered the whole scenario. All the resentment she’d been  hiding, the anger at her mom, at Danny for not stepping up and helping, at having to be perfect. 

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I've introduced a few people to this case - all of them either recovering alcoholics, or family of alcoholics.  One had some interesting ideas about what could drive her over the edge and take the nieces with her.

1) One of the nieces figured out she was drinking and/or smoking (not even pot - just smoking in general) and threatened to tell their mom or dad.  From the time they're really small, kids are inundated with messages about smoking being bad.  Heck, 30 years ago, I had a friend who was constantly on her dad to quit smoking (when it was WAY more acceptable) and would put stickers on his ashtray that we got at a presentation in school, etc.  Her dad would get really irritated about it.

2) There was talk of a play between Diane and her sister in law - they needed the girls to be home by a certain time so they could go to practice.  At the time, the sister in law said Diane sounded fine.  Perhaps there was some talk from the nieces about their grandmother being in attendance.  They had a relationship with her.  This could have brought up talk between the nieces and Diane's kids, and it could have spiraled down from there.

3) One of the nieces could have blurted something out that she overheard someone else say, not realizing it wasn't appropriate to repeat, etc.  I've seen that happen so many times over the years.  IE: Aunt Diane - my mommy said that Uncle Danny has a girlfriend (or something similar - heck, it could have been completely misunderstood by the kid and repeated incorrectly - that happens too).  Growing up, my mom had a friend who had 2 daughters - one was older than me, and one was in my class at school.  My mom would tell her mom all kinds of stuff, thinking that this woman was a confidant, but her daughters would eavesdrop, or their mom would say something in passing, and it would get blown all out of proportion and get all around school and the neighborhood the next day.  My mom was on a diet once that had instructions to dump junk food in to the trash - actually open the bags and packages and dump it in the trash and mix it up so you're not tempted to pick out the closed containers and eat the junk food.  This got around and turned in to my mom being so out of control with her eating that she had to put food deep in to the garbage because otherwise she'll eat garbage.  I was in elementary school, and I never lived down the fact that my mom was a "garbage eater".

4) When things went downhill, the older niece could have said she called her dad, etc.  Being scared, she could have been speaking her mind in the hopes it would make a difference.  I wish her father would have told her to get out of the car, and see if she could get her sisters out in the process - Diane's kids might have been in car seats.  That might have stopped Diane from driving off, or might have had someone try to keep her from leaving.  My mom told me when I was younger that if I ever felt in danger in someone else's car, to get out if I had a chance and not get back in.  I never had to do that, but it's good advice.

She, like me, was very bothered that we'll never know what happened in this case.  So frustrating.

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This happened about 15 minutes from where I grew up and it was huge news. I’ve firmly believed that Diane intentionally killed herself and those kids. The alcohol and weed she consumed (no matter how much her husband and SIL tried to deny that) gave her liquid courage to do what she needed to do. Why she chose that day and that time will always be a mystery, unless by some miracle Bryan remembers what happened and decides to share it with the world. But I truly believe she intended to take her life that day.

Neither Danny nor Jay are sympathetic characters, at all. It’s very clear that Danny was fuming underneath a not so calm surface with Diane by having the audacity to die and leave behind all of these adult responsibilities and a child to raise by himself. And I lost all respect for him when I found out he had the balls to sue Diane’s brother because he was the one who owned the van(so it was the VAN that made Diane drive two miles in the wrong direction on a busy parkway, Danny?). You have to be a pretty big asshole to sue someone who lost both of his daughters and his sister. Why Jay was so invested I don’t know...I want to say it’s because she loved Bryan and wanted to make sure he was taken care of, but for some reason I don’t feel that’s the only reason. I do believe the reason why they pushed this “it’s everyone’s fault but Diane’s” narrative is for life insurance purposes. A lot of the policies will not pay out if the holder commits suicide, and Jay mentioned that Diane was the breadwinner. Long Island is a very expensive place to live, so they were going to go to their graves saying that it was an accident in order to get that money.

I do wonder where things stand now, almost 10 years later. I googled and nothing new has come up. It’s just sad all around, and I hope that Bryan, Diane’s brother and SIL, and the families of the men in the other SUV have some peace in their lives.

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On 6/11/2018 at 10:23 PM, Angelsmom1009 said:

This happened about 15 minutes from where I grew up and it was huge news. I’ve firmly believed that Diane intentionally killed herself and those kids. The alcohol and weed she consumed (no matter how much her husband and SIL tried to deny that) gave her liquid courage to do what she needed to do. Why she chose that day and that time will always be a mystery, unless by some miracle Bryan remembers what happened and decides to share it with the world. But I truly believe she intended to take her life that day.

 

I believe the same, and I feel like she snapped.  What made her snap, I believe (and I have written it above) was the "wrong number" phone call.  If you look at the timeline, that is where she goes from normal to not normal.

The number is for a home near her work.  Affair with someone near her work?  Did he end things?  If she had a boyfriend and he ended it, that would be enough to make her start drinking, and drinking and drinking... once she was wasted, she made the decision to end her life and didn't care who was in the car.

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Today is the anniversary of the crash--a friend of mine who is friends with the Hance family posted about it. 

This story continues to break my heart. I hope the Hances, the Bastardis, and the Longos, along with Bryan Schuler, are finding comfort and peace. I continue to feel so angry at Diane and Daniel; I can't imagine how their actual victims feel.

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Just re-watched this one (it's been my week for going back to some old shows whose nuances I'd forgotten) and this time through I am just puzzled and put off by Jay.  I guess it's a good thing she's there as support for Bryan, but on the other hand, it really enables the dad's disengagement with his son and his desire to shed as much responsibility for him as he can.  

As for the lawsuit - I have no idea of the exact circumstances, but sometimes insurance companies make you do that to get your claim paid off.  Although I'd believe almost anything of that guy.

The first time through I had trouble wrapping my mind around a mother deliberately committing an atrocity of this magnitude, but this time I'm not nearly as sure.  I lean more to the theory that she got completely blitzed, perhaps unintentionally, on the pot and booze and in a stupor drove into oncoming traffic, but I freely admit that that could just be reluctance to accept that it could have been on purpose.  Those poor, poor parents; the other families; and I do still feel the most heartache for that little boy.  

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One thing I've not seen commented upon.  She didn't have to be an active, raging alcholic.  It actually makes more sense that she wasn't an habitual drinker.  She didn't know how the booze and pot would affect her.  She started drinking to ease the tooth pain and just went too far and lost her reason.  Her brother didn't call the police after he spoke to his daughter because you don't call the police on your sister who might be having a medical episode for all he knew.  He told her to stay put, believing that she would.  If he knew she was a drunk, would he and his wife let their children drive with her?  I've watched this a few times years ago.  I was in upstate New York when this happened.  I don't think I was anywhere near the accident scene, but the entire saga resonated with me because I was in that neck of the woods at that time.  I don't want to watch it again though.  I think I watched initially because I thought there would be answers.  I've come to realize there will never be answers.  Whatever prompted this will most likely always be a mystery.  Horribly sad.  

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14 hours ago, kathe5133 said:

One thing I've not seen commented upon.  She didn't have to be an active, raging alcholic.  It actually makes more sense that she wasn't an habitual drinker.  She didn't know how the booze and pot would affect her.  She started drinking to ease the tooth pain and just went too far and lost her reason.  Her brother didn't call the police after he spoke to his daughter because you don't call the police on your sister who might be having a medical episode for all he knew.  He told her to stay put, believing that she would.  If he knew she was a drunk, would he and his wife let their children drive with her?  I've watched this a few times years ago.  I was in upstate New York when this happened.  I don't think I was anywhere near the accident scene, but the entire saga resonated with me because I was in that neck of the woods at that time.  I don't want to watch it again though.  I think I watched initially because I thought there would be answers.  I've come to realize there will never be answers.  Whatever prompted this will most likely always be a mystery.  Horribly sad.  

Interesting thought, but if she were an inexperienced drinker, I don't think she could have gotten the sheer amount of alcohol she had in her system and still been able to function - even poorly - for the next 2 hours.  Not impossible, but improbable.  The family can yell "tooth ache" or "medical episode" from the rooftops, but nothing changes the fact that she got stupid drunk and high and killed people.  She picked up the drinks and consumed/smoked the pot (and apparently smoked regularly, per her sister-in-law) - no one held a gun to her head and forced her.  Most people, when confronted with horrible pain, would have pulled over and called for help (if that were the case), and not gotten stupid drunk.  My husband was a world class binge drinker.  Started when he was 15, and quit when he was 23.  He could consume massive amounts of booze and still somewhat function.  I certainly wouldn't have gotten in to a car with him, but he could walk, and talk, and eat, etc.  Most people who don't have a high tolerance would have passed out before they got to as many drinks as she consumed.

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Was it ever proven that she had a toothache? That still seems to be the thing that the family is trying to push as  a reason/excuse for her getting drunk, in order to try and convince everyone that she wasn’t a alcoholic  who either got blind drunk and killed herself and the kids (on purpose or accidentally ). Personally I don’t believe it was a toothache. I think she got angry got drunk and deliberately hesded into oncoming traffic .   

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16 hours ago, iwasish said:

 

Was it ever proven that she had a toothache?

 

No, that was all deflection from Danny. At no point (that I remember) did he recall her complaining about a "toothache" that morning at the campground. It was only later on when they were trying to do damage control that the mysterious "toothache" ever came into the picture. Even with a toothache, there's no way she was medicating herself with that much alcohol and driving a carload of kids around with her. 

Danny and the rest of that family knew she was a drinker and pot smoker. My feeling is that Danny and the rest of the family knew every dark secret she had and did their level best to not make them public knowledge—or to muddy up public knowledge—after the murders to save themselves from potential liability and to recast her legacy for the surviving son.  (I just can't call this an accident—she purposefully got behind the wheel of a car, dead drunk, and killed a lot of innocent people. That's not an accident.) 

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21 hours ago, iwasish said:

Was it ever proven that she had a toothache? That still seems to be the thing that the family is trying to push as  a reason/excuse for her getting drunk, in order to try and convince everyone that she wasn’t a alcoholic  who either got blind drunk and killed herself and the kids (on purpose or accidentally ). Personally I don’t believe it was a toothache. I think she got angry got drunk and deliberately hesded into oncoming traffic .   

Nope.  They mentioned tooth problems in the past, and how she didn't like the dentist, and she got up in the middle of a root canal and walked out (I'm still all "WTF" over that one), but it was never proven she had a toothache -  just more deflection from the family.  Someone mentioned Diabetes, but it was shown that she had Gestational Diabetes, but that's it.  Someone also mentioned a blood clot that broke free - no evidence of that either.  Then something about a bad headache (and the Tylenol Gelcaps) - there's no way to prove that, but I don't buy it either.  I get migraines - have since I was young.  I don't drive.  If one pops up, I pull over.

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On 5/22/2017 at 12:26 AM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

When I watched this I got a strong impression that Daniel was kind of bummed that one kid survived and he was stuck with him. 

Sad, but I got the same vibe.

with a father like that, IMO, Diane’s attempt to kill not just herself but all her kids makes sense. She wanted out but couldn’t leave them with a dad who would just consider them a burden. That her brothers child also died was just collateral damage to her.

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57 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Sad, but I got the same vibe.

with a father like that, IMO, Diane’s attempt to kill not just herself but all her kids makes sense. She wanted out but couldn’t leave them with a dad who would just consider them a burden. That her brothers child also died was just collateral damage to her.

All three of the brother's girls - so awful.

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