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Barry Allen

Hmmm clearly the show has some continuity problems. I guess I will go back and check. Although, if he picked her up for lunch, that still lends credence to my idea that some of this is for Iris' benefit.

I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that Linda is only about making Iris jealous - my point has always been that Linda serves the purpose of someone to move on with, but at the same time someone to gloat over Iris with. People do this all the time - sometimes unconsciously - either way - I still believe that's what Barry is doing.

This isn't even true. He was perfectly polite to her when he met her and Eddie. Afterwards, he expressed his frustration to Caitlin but are you going to call him an ass to Iris when she wasn't even there to witness this?

My issue is with what happened afterwards. "NiceGuys" don't typically show that to the object of their affection - they usually gripe to someone else instead, behind said object's back.

My point is that he's basically bitching at Iris behind her back to Caitlin - proving that he was literally "being nice" to Iris because he wanted her to fall into his arms. Sure - he smiles in Iris' face and pretends to be "fine" but behind her back he's griping about her. That's patently unfair and just wrong. It's classic NiceGuy behavior and I find that kind of behavior ugly.

I don't get it. Is he supposed to be kissing her feet or something? He's finally making strides to get over her so it stands to reason that he won't want to be around her as much.

Really? Because he's certainly 1) telling her things are back to normal and 2) showing up at her job constantly shoving Linda right in her face.

It doesn't mean they aren't still friends. If he'd informed her of his dates, some will accuse him of throwing Linda in his face. He doesn't, and he's not being a good friend. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think he could have told Iris about Linda without it being bad - especially if he'd been sweet about it like he was BEFORE the confession.

What makes him a poor friend is that he's basically acting like a little punk because Iris didn't just fall into his arms after his confession. The way he griped about Iris to Caitlin literally makes me see red. There is SO much Iris doesn't know - that he's kept from her - and so much about her being talked about behind her back by her so called best friend.

And with the way everyone seems to want to equate Barry's list of sins to Iris' ONE and call it even - no, I think she's the one who can't win.

The show is clearly going for a jealousy storyline and you're holding it against him because Iris gets to see him at her job.

I think Barry is purposely carrying on as much as possible with Linda at his job to show off to Iris.

This is Iris who has a boyfriend that she lives with but apparently, Barry is wrong for showing up to talk to the girl he's dating. Explaining himself to Linda in person is better than a phone call.

Why does he need to do it during the workday? Why not during off hours? What people do you know who run around to folks jobs to beg and plead and eat hot peppers? I don't know of ANY who would do that. Most would call or drop by after work. Especially after 1 or 1.5 dates!

This is the same show that has Barry witness all of Iris and Eddie's make-out sessions for his jealousy storyline. Clearly, that's just their style.

There is a huge difference between this and between what Barry has been doing. If you believe that Barry is shoving Linda in Iris' face as a sort of "so there!", then no, it's not innocent. As I stated way back in this thread - Iris has NEVER EVER made Barry feel like a 3rd wheel when she's been with Eddie. She's always made him feel welcome and spent time with him. The only time things weren't good was after Barry said they shouldn't see each other for a while. And then once after it was awkward - but not cruel. Barry literally ran over Iris on his way out the door and barely spoke and his attitude toward her since the "Eddie and the parents" incident has been decidedly cool - as though he was waiting for Iris to suddenly realize she loved him and fall into his arms.

He's not being a good friend right now. A good friend would just be honest and say, "I think maybe I need some time apart" rather than take passive aggressive swipes at her - which is what I believe he's doing.

Besides - Iris was RIGHT in what she said to Linda. Linda had picked up on quite a bit from Barry previously - clearly she has to notice that she's doing pretty much ALL of the chasing - and the ONE moment where it looks like Barry is kinda chasing (the pepper) comes off more as something he was doing to prove to Iris that he was over her.

Sorry - just not buying that Barry's innocent in this.

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Really? Because he's certainly 1) telling her things are back to normal and 2) showing up at her job constantly shoving Linda right in her face.

'Constantly' is quite a stretch. He didn't even see iris the second time did he? It's not his fault Linda works at the paper. I don't really get why this is problem.

Iris has a boyfriend she lives with! Who gives a damn if Barry dates someone else?

Btw, what iris said to Linda was not correct. Barry skipped out because of flash business, it didn't have anything to do with iris.

Edited by Shanna.
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Really? Because he's certainly 1) telling her things are back to normal and 2) showing up at her job constantly shoving Linda right in her face.

 

It's also Linda's workplace. Iris doesn't have much of a leg to stand on as far as jealousy goes... she does have a boyfriend after all which this show is happy to ignore so Iris can continue on meeting a vigilante in secret and drooling over Oliver.

 

Barry is single, he's allowed to date, just because it's a little awkward dating one of Iris's coworker doesn't mean it's Barry fault. Linda was a random he met at a bar.

There's plenty of stuff to be annoyed at Barry about. I'm not sure Barry dating and complaining about Iris really constitutes a massive friendship betrayal.

 

Keeping The Flash as an alterego a secret from his BFF is a much bigger WTF for me.

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'Constantly' is quite a stretch. He didn't even see iris the second time did he? It's not his fault Linda works at the paper. I don't really get why this is problem.

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems rather tactless. The whole putting on a show in front of her coworkers was attention seeking and very immature. Couldn't he wait until after work? And same goes to storming in to confront Iris while she was working. It makes him come off as an impatient child.  

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LOL - yes I know that Barry skipped out on Linda because of Flash business. That's NOT what I was getting at when I said Iris was right about Barry acting weird with Linda.

Linda has essentially had to chase Barry this entire time - and in the very beginning, Barry barely even realizes she's coming on to him. She did ALL of the work. On their date, she actually asks Barry why no one had snapped him up yet. So before Barry acted strange and unavailable to her and she could pinpoint it to a specific act (due to Flash stuff, but that's not the point, since by then, Linda was already thinking something was up with him), she had some inkling something was up with him.

What I meant when I said that Iris was right is that she was right about everything that was happening BEFORE Barry messed it up further himself. He was already acting somewhat emotionally unavailable - hence the reason why Linda had to practically spell it out for him at the bar. And then later when she asked why he hadn't been snapped up yet.

Well, now she knows - the reason for all of that and the reason why she's had to chase him all of this time is because he was hung up on someone else... and now, thanks to Iris' verbal diarrhea, she knows why.

Let me try to be clearer - I may be ticked off at how Barry is behaving (to me, he's being the classic "NiceGuy"), but I still like Barry. I just don't like that none of this will be addressed - and that all of the blame for everything will just fall on Iris' shoulders, even though Barry has been really unfair to her and has done far worse (lying to her for so long, about his love and about being The Flash - and all of the lies he's had to tell to keep those things secret). First with the confession and then with this stuff. I get it that some don't see Barry as putting on a show for Iris, but I do...

I do sympathize with Barry - because I've been there. But I guess I handled it better, lol.

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Phoenics, nobody in this thread is equating everything Barry has done with what Iris did. Just because fandom lets Barry get away with everything and Iris with nothing doesn't mean we have to find evil in everything he does. 

 

If you recall, Barry was running out of the door when he bumped into Iris. He was already rushing out. You're mad because he didn't stop to say hello? They are friends. This is what friends do when they are in a hurry and it isn't normally held against them. 

 

He was frustrated that it seemed like their relationship dynamic was never going to change. Would it have been better if he'd bitched about this to Iris? He doesn't hate her  - he loves her. He was upset at the situation and surely the guy can vent to his friend. What's so wrong with this? Is he not allowed to react like a normal human being?  Barry said that niceguy thing to Caitlin but his actions showed differently when he gave her a story as the Flash. Barry has a problem with lying and it's true that he told her that they should remain friends but Ep 12 showed that he wasn't being honest because he still held out hope. His behavior has changed now because he's actively attempting to move on. 

 

It seems to me that you're mad that he's no longer looking at her with puppy dog eyes but I think this is progress. He needs to do that for them to actually transition to something truly platonic OR for a romantic relationship to have any real future. 

 

We've had one episode of Barry trying to juggle dating with being the Flash. It wasn't about showing off his relationship to Iris, someone he doesn't think has any romantic feelings for him. Maybe he'll do that next week but we can at least wait for that to happen because making accusations. 

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It's also Linda's workplace. Iris doesn't have much of a leg to stand on as far as jealousy goes... she does have a boyfriend after all which this show is happy to ignore so Iris can continue on meeting a vigilante in secret and drooling over Oliver.

 

Barry is single, he's allowed to date, just because it's a little awkward dating one of Iris's coworker doesn't mean it's Barry fault. Linda was a random he met at a bar.

There's plenty of stuff to be annoyed at Barry about. I'm not sure Barry dating and complaining about Iris really constitutes a massive friendship betrayal.

Apparently I haven't made myself clear enough - but your framing of my position isn't what I've been saying. I'm irritated about Barry's "NiceGuy" stuff, talking about Iris behind her back like a whiny baby, and what I believe is Barry parading Linda in front of Iris to get a rise out of her - and then when he does, castigating her over it (when Iris really did not have bad intentions).

Of course it's okay for Barry to date - it's just odd to me that he chose to pick Linda up at her job. That just doesn't make sense to me unless he was doing it to make a point to Iris. The date was legit - the picking up of Linda at the paper is what I'm side-eying.

Keeping The Flash as an alterego a secret from his BFF is a much bigger WTF for me.

I'd add to that keeping his feelings hidden for so long - but I guess I understand that so never mind.

I know it's realistic to have a friendship fracture after a huge confession like that - but it's still difficult to watch. Iris is now literally on the outside looking in at her friend where she used to know everything about him. I suppose that's par for the course. It just felt like Barry was much more included with Iris and Eddie - and now that's Barry's got Linda, Iris has been shoved aside in a not so nice way. Like I said before - Iris didn't do him like that.

Think how Iris would meet up with Barry to take him to stuff like seeing Wells at Star Labs, or the movies he likes, or any of the myriad of things she did for him (that didn't really align with her interests) even when she was with Eddie for NO other reason than she cared about him and he was her BFF...

Now compare that to when Iris needed support over her job situation and Barry does it - but then when he realizes it's not going to make her fall into his arms, he smiles in Iris' face, but then immediately calls someone to whine about it and act like a "Nice Guy".

It makes Iris look like she genuinely cares about Barry and being his BFF and it makes Barry look like he's just been hanging in the friend zone to make Iris fall into his arms, but when she doesn't do that he gets pissy.

I get that he needs to date (he's not emotionally available though). I get that he might need space - I wish he would just say that though so he can get his life.

It seems to me that you're mad that he's no longer looking at her with puppy dog eyes but I think this is progress. He needs to do that for them to actually transition to something truly platonic OR for a romantic relationship to have any real future.

No - that's not it at all.

I'm done trying to explain my position, I think I've explained it enough.

I actually would love it if Barry just told Iris that he needed some time to process things... that would be more honest than what he's doing. He's not being as good of a friend to her as she has been to him. That's what I see and I'm frustrated that he won't be held accountable for it.

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Barry and Linda have only been together for one episode. Can we really compare this with the Iris/Eddie relationship? Besides,

all four are hanging out together in the next episode

.

 

 

 

Now compare that to when Iris needed support over her job situation and Barry does it - but then when he realizes it's not going to make her fall into his arms, he smiles in Iris' face, but then immediately calls someone to whine about it and act like a "Nice Guy".

It makes Iris look like she genuinely cares about Barry and being his BFF and it makes Barry look like he's just been hanging in the friend zone to make Iris fall into his arms, but when she doesn't do that he gets pissy.

 

And you're going to ignore that he still helped her as the Flash? If he didn't genuinely care about her as a friend, why would he bother doing that? 

 

 

I actually would love it if Barry just told Iris that he needed some time to process things... that would be more honest than what he's doing. He's not being as good of a friend to her as she has been to him.

 

I personally think Barry's confession was 99% about him and hope that at some point, Iris can express her anger at how that went down. However, after he dropped that bomb on her, what did she do to try to make things fine with them? She never responded to it and he was the one who tried to clear the air with his vision of the future. At least he attempted to salvage their relationship even if he wasn't being honest with himself at the time. All we've had is one episode of him trying to have a girlfriend. With him preoccupied with Linda and Iris with Eddie, they won't have as much time to spend together. 

Edited by Xander.
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Barry and Linda have only been together for one episode. Can we really compare this with the Iris/Eddie relationship? Besides,

all four are hanging out together in the next episode

.

For some reason I thought that was happening in episode 18?

 

And you're going to ignore that he still helped her as the Flash? If he didn't genuinely care about her as a friend, why would he bother doing that?

No - that kinda makes me a little uncomfortable. Iris doesn't know he's the Flash. So it's just another lie. Is he doing that because he knows Iris likes The Flash? That part didn't really make sense to me... I don't get why he had to do it as The Flash. Iris was mad at The Flash before - did they make up and I missed it? When Barry came to help and she had the dinner planned already with Eddie and his folks, it was Barry who reacted adversely (again, behind her back) and then showed up later as The Flash to give her the story.

I guess I don't understand that... But let me try to take something good from it and assume - as you seem to be doing - that he was still trying to be a friend to her (though undercover)... perhaps he felt safer doing it as The Flash than as himself...

Oh great - now I'm talking about him as if he's really two people when he's not.

 

I personally think Barry's confession was 99% about him and hope that at some point, Iris can express her anger at how that went down.

Oh this I completely agree with - the part about Barry's confession being about him. I don't blame him for his confession - it was the right thing to do. I just wish he'd given Iris more time to process it. He just dropped it and left, lol.

However, after he dropped that bomb on her, what did she do to try to make things fine with them? She never responded to it and he was the one who tried to clear the air with his vision of the future. At least he attempted to salvage their relationship even if he wasn't being honest with himself at the time. All we've had is one episode of him trying to have a girlfriend. With him preoccupied with Linda and Iris with Eddie, they won't have as much time to spend together.

I think this has frustrated me the most. We never got to see Iris even answer him. All CP got was a tear to roll down her cheek and we're left to guess what she thought or felt.

And honestly - since he was the one with the feelings and since he was the one to drop the love bomb, then the onus to repair the damage caused by that MUST lie with him... not her.

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And honestly - since he was the one with the feelings and since he was the one to drop the love bomb, then the onus to repair the damage caused by that MUST lie with him... not her.

 

I don't quite agree with this. As a BFF, she should also try to make it clear that as long as he's willing, she would still like to be friends. That's part of being a best friend. I personally don't hold this against her and see it as another example of the writers refusing to let her speak.

 

 

For some reason I thought that was happening in episode 18?

That's a different date with Ray and Felicity

Edited by Xander.
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So are you telling me that

Awkward double dates are going to become a thing on this show?

Great, another thing to look forward to.

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I tend to agree that the onus is on Barry to repair the relationship if possible or set new parameters going forward. It was his confession that changed everything. What is Iris supposed to do about it? Unless she is willing to dump Eddie for him, she can't act on Barry's feelings. She also would be considered insensitive and selfish if she was all, "I don't want you and you need to give me the relationship that I want with you". I can totally understand her letting him take the lead on how he wants to be going forward. I can also see her not trying to get him to talk about it if she doesn't return those feelings, since he dropped it like a bomb and then left and apparently would feel awkward and embarrassed to be reminded of it. Who wants to have that conversation? I do think his confession was about him and actually think it was a bit selfish. He's had years to tell her and yet he waits until she's happily moving in with someone else to confess. It's like people who confess hurtful things years later when nothing can be done to be "honest", but really all it does is relieve their own guilty burden and make the other person feel bad.

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I think we can all agree that Barry's love confession came at an awful time and was more about him than Iris. Sadly though Iris's lack of reaction is probably more the fault of the show than either character. It just makes everything more difficult as we don't really know what Barry is trying to fix.

 

Did Iris stop talking to him, were there awkward glances? was it buried under a ton of denial ?

 

We don't know and probably will never know what is up with Barry and Iris. I think they rushed Barry's confession and it's weighing down the show with an overt love triangle that makes the 2 major players look terrible. I feel sorry for Eddie who has done nothing wrong but trusting these two people. Poor Eddie, he's going to need more hugs or drugs to feel better.

Edited by wayne67.
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Yeah, I agree that the show going there this soon was a mistake and poorly done. It was like they thought they made him too in love with her right off the bat and felt they needed to blow it up to back out of it.

I do feel horrible for Eddie. I actually really like him. He seems well-intentioned and sincere and like he honestly loves Iris. Plus, he's been pretty understanding about Barry and Iris' friendship when clearly there's crap going on. I also enjoyed his talk with Barry about bullies. He seems like a good guy. I actually wish they interacted more as friends (though I understand why they can't). I would much prefer that than Barry hanging out with Caitlin or Cisco who kinda both grate.

Edited by cynic.
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On the other hand Barry had come back from a near death coma and had this on his chest for years. If we were going to give him the benefit of the doubt maybe he wanted to say it before it festered any longer inside him before Eddie and Iris got any more serious.

 

Unfortunately he completely blew the execution and didn't even wait for a response before leaving and apparently didn't even bother to follow it up so I can't give him that benefit of the doubt for the love confession.

 

It's deeply annoying because we already knows the 'hero' gets the girl even though at the moment I don't think he's mature enough to be in a serious relationship.

Edited by wayne67.
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It bothers me that his father said that he was putting his life on hold with Iris due to that murder when he was going to tell her that he loved her before the lightening struck him.

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Barry said that there were several times he tried to tell her but failed so I consider that time in the pilot just another failed attempt.

 

I definitely think that Barry would have tried to block if he hadn't been in a coma when Iris started seeing Eddie. 

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From what Iris said about being too busy with Barry and Joe to have a real relationship, I doubt that her relationship with Eddie would've started if Barry wasn't in a coma.

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The show tried to show some growth/maturity for Barry when he refused to engage Capt. Cold in a fight, BUT then the stupidity of him not being fast enough to grab those guns in the final fight pretty much cancelled that out in the episode.

 

They need to make the STAR Labs team useful, therefore, unfortunately, Barry gets dumbed down a lot. Maybe when Wells goes full-on villain, they'll let Barry be smarter. Or maybe let Arrow shoot him a couple more times.  ;-)

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I certainly hope there is fallout from Barry lying and interacting with iris as the flash but that obviously won't happen till she knows.

I am never going to see anything wrong with picking your date up at her office, that just say he's a properly polite young man to me!

I have been disappointed at how they've dropped Eddie the last few weeks for the most part. I also enjoyed his intersection with Barry.

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I don't quite agree with this. As a BFF, she should also try to make it clear that as long as he's willing, she would still like to be friends. That's part of being a best friend. I personally don't hold this against her and see it as another example of the writers refusing to let her speak.

Oh - I don't understand this. Since Barry is the one who disrupted their friendship, honestly the onus really is on him to be the one to assure Iris that he's not asking her for anything (because he can see she's not reciprocating)... I mean, let's be real. If you were in a lifelong friendship and your other BFF half expressed undying love for you, wouldn't you be thrown? And confused? And then wonder what would happen if you rejected his/her advances? I don't understand how Iris can be held accountable for any of that when she didn't create it - honestly I'm actually astonished that you're pinning that on her.

Barry is the one who disrupted their dynamic.

Barry should be the one who tells Iris that they're cool even if she didn't love him back that way (which he did - that scene with the fist bump is what Barry HAD to do - not doing it would be so bad - like if Iris didn't reciprocate he was just going to walk away from her or keep things messy?).

I do think Barry should tell Iris he needs some time apart or alone or something to get his life... being around her all the time with those feelings isn't going to make them go away.

That's a different date with Ray and Felicity

Oh - thanks... I totes had that confused.

So are you telling me that

Awkward double dates are going to become a thing on this show? Great, another thing to look forward to.

LOL - that was funny.

I think we can all agree that Barry's love confession came at an awful time and was more about him than Iris. Sadly though Iris's lack of reaction is probably more the fault of the show than either character. It just makes everything more difficult as we don't really know what Barry is trying to fix.

 

Did Iris stop talking to him, were there awkward glances? was it buried under a ton of denial ?

 

We don't know and probably will never know what is up with Barry and Iris. I think they rushed Barry's confession and it's weighing down the show with an overt love triangle that makes the 2 major players look terrible. I feel sorry for Eddie who has done nothing wrong but trusting these two people. Poor Eddie, he's going to need more hugs or drugs to feel better.

Wait - is this true completely?

We do know that things were awkward. It was awkward enough that both Eddie and Joe noticed on two separate occasions... and in those occasions, Iris clearly was still talking to him. And there were definitely awkward glances... remember Joe's "I have eyes", lol.

On the other hand Barry had come back from a near death coma and had this on his chest for years. If we were going to give him the benefit of the doubt maybe he wanted to say it before it festered any longer inside him before Eddie and Iris got any more serious.

You know - I actually am not really mad at Barry for this - he was kinda in a do or die situation - plus not telling Iris was keeping him stuck. I've been in almost the exact same situation - though different in some critical ways - and I understand needing to release something like that in order to be able to move on with your life.

The thing is - I think Barry told Iris with some small hope that she would reciprocate, but at the same time he ACTED like she wouldn't reciprocate.

Unfortunately he completely blew the execution and didn't even wait for a response before leaving and apparently didn't even bother to follow it up so I can't give him that benefit of the doubt for the love confession.

Yes - I think this is because while he hoped she would reciprocate, he's been living his whole life this way and can't even conceive of her returning his feelings, so he drops the bomb as though she will never reciprocate (which led to her not reciprocating for the most part - he never really gave her a real chance to).

It's deeply annoying because we already knows the 'hero' gets the girl even though at the moment I don't think he's mature enough to be in a serious relationship.

Eh - I feel like being in the relationship is what can mature you... but I see your point.

The show tried to show some growth/maturity for Barry when he refused to engage Capt. Cold in a fight, BUT then the stupidity of him not being fast enough to grab those guns in the final fight pretty much cancelled that out in the episode.

 

They need to make the STAR Labs team useful, therefore, unfortunately, Barry gets dumbed down a lot. Maybe when Wells goes full-on villain, they'll let Barry be smarter. Or maybe let Arrow shoot him a couple more times.  ;-)

You know - this is one of the things that bothers me about this show. I get how Team Arrow is fun and all - but Team Flash just grates on me sometimes, BECAUSE it reduces Barry's intelligence and makes him seem more like the Wally West version of The Flash than the Barry Allen version - who was more serious and really, really brilliant at his job. I actually miss the scenes where Barry would get to the crime scene and we'd see the little graphics pop up over the stuff he was looking at while he gave his analysis to the captain...

I actually liked that better than when he puts broken glass back together really fast. The former illustrates Barry's intelligence and makes you understand why he's a CSI. The latter just lets his alter ego The Flash eclipse Barry Allen's intelligence in his own right.

Bring back the analysis CGI overlays, show.

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Sometimes this immature ladies man (Felicity, Caitlin, Iris, Linda. Isnt he supposed to be a nerd?) is one nagging mother away from Wally West.

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I don't understand how Iris can be held accountable for any of that when she didn't create it - honestly I'm actually astonished that you're pinning that on her.

I am not pining it on her. I used the word "also." He should do his part but she should also do hers. I am saying that as a best friend she should speak. I don't think it's okay to be completely silent on the matter and have no reaction at all. 

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I am not pining it on her. I used the word "also." He should do his part but she should also do hers. I am saying that as a best friend she should speak. I don't think it's okay to be completely silent on the matter and have no reaction at all.

Actually I think that's perfectly fine. Sometimes it's better to be silent when you aren't sure of your feelings than to say something wrong and muck everything up.

If she isn't sure what to say, if she isn't sure of her response yet, then silence is perfectly acceptable. She may not yet know what her feelings are on the matter - and given that she has a boyfriend, she has to be really careful in her response.

But it doesn't matter - Barry didn't give her any time for a response anyway. He just got up and left.

When Iris told Linda that Barry had been in love with someone else and that the feelings weren't reciprocated, I wonder if she meant - she didn't reciprocate them quickly enough because he didn't give her the chance to?

I guess we'll never know - because they aren't giving us Iris' PoV. Blech.

Edited by phoenics.
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Phoenics, Barry was obviously still hoping that Iris would reciprocate his feelings as recently as ep 12. I don't think a response is only limited to the day that he confessed his feelings. But we obviously see this differently. 

 

As for silence, I consider someone saying that they aren't sure of their feelings a response. That's better than not saying anything at all. At least give the other person an idea of where your head is at. 

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As for silence, I consider someone saying that they aren't sure of their feelings a response. That's better than not saying anything at all. At least give the other person an idea of where your head is at.

Indeed. Apparently she feels like she somehow communicated (although we didn't see it) that she wasn't interested. Maybe she feels moving in with her boyfriend was sufficient assuming they didn't talk about it in offscreensville.

Regardless. She said no thanks and they somehow resumed their friendship. He is free to see anyone he wants without guilt (as obviously is she).

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Phoenics, Barry was obviously still hoping that Iris would reciprocate his feelings as recently as ep 12. I don't think a response is only limited to the day that he confessed his feelings. But we obviously see this differently. 

 

As for silence, I consider someone saying that they aren't sure of their feelings a response. That's better than not saying anything at all. At least give the other person an idea of where your head is at.

Actually - it feels to me like you keep misunderstanding me - because I don't think I've been saying that Iris should have said something on that day. I've been saying over and over again that she would have needed time to answer and that Barry should have given her time or expected that she'd need it.

Also, Shanna - we never saw Iris say "no thanks" because we've never gotten her PoV. We just know that Iris told Linda now that the feelings weren't reciprocated - but that doesn't mean Iris said "no thanks".

I don't see us coming to terms with our differing views, so I'm fine moving on. I'm beginning to talk in circles and I feel like I've stated my views enough.

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But it doesn't matter - Barry didn't give her any time for a response anyway. He just got up and left.

I was basing it on this. You said he just got up and left and I interpreted that to mean that you expected him to wait for a response. I guess I misunderstood. 

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I was basing it on this. You said he just got up and left and I interpreted that to mean that you expected him to wait for a response. I guess I misunderstood.

I didn't mean that Barry should sit there and wait until Iris gave him some kind of response right then and there (that'd be unrealistic). I meant that maybe he could have said something to the effect that he knows he's dumped a lot on her and that he's around if she wants to talk about it - before leaving.

Part of this is definitely coming from my own individual experience of nearly the same situation - and I did two things that I think made the situation overall easier to handle for both of us. I made it clear what I wanted and I explicitly left the door open by inviting the person to approach me at some point in the future after they'd processed things (and they did).

But poor Barry just dropped it on her and then said he'd lost her and then up and left.

He could have handled it better.

Edited by phoenics.
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I don't get it. Yes, the timing was unfair, but he did tell her, and then the ball was in her court. What was he supposed to do, continue to push his feeling on her, or pressure her to reciprocate? If he did that then he would be rightfully accused of stepping over a line. Iris is a grown ass woman, if she had feelings for Barry, or needed time to process his confession, she could have delayed moving in with Eddie. She chose to go ahead and do it, and I don't see how Barry could take that as anything else but "sorry, I don't have romantic feelings for you".

 

I feel like Barry's getting blamed for everything: he's getting blamed for waiting so long to tell Iris (which while I understand, it was either tell her then or not tell he at all), he's getting blamed for dating Linda because she's a coworker of Iris, he's getting blamed for showing up at the newspaper because that's "rubbing Iris' face in it", he's getting blamed for being upset that Iris told Linda that he had feelings for someone else, and he's getting called a "nice guy" which apparently now means "manipulative asshole".

 

I know this isn't going to happen, but I wish they'd write Iris out because it's fast becoming clear that she's not Laurel Lance as I originally feared, but Lana Lang, the perfect little princess, who can't possible be held accountable for her decisions or the passive aggressive crap she pulls. I watch this show for Barry, not Iris, and if she can't be a part of his story (like Joe, Cisco, Caitlyn, or even freaking Wells) without making him the bad guy every step of the way, I'd just rather see her gone.

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Lokiberry, Iris is being held accountable after all, Barry told her off in the last episode. 

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Lana Lang, the perfect little princess,

No! Kill it. Kill it with fire! Lol, let's hope not. I don't think the show is saying that yet, just Phoenics. The show actually made the point that iris doesn't really have any right to go tanking Barry's dates (even though I don't think she actually meant to do that).

I agree with you. She's a grown woman, balls in he court. I'm not sure quite how much time has passed since Barry told her, but plenty of time for her to express an interest back, breAk up with Eddie, or even just ask for time. Whatever she said to him, she thinks she rejected him so I think it fair to assume Barry thinks she rejected him too. So if somebody hits in him at a bar, go for it Barry! Especially if it's Malese jow because I love her.

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I don't get it. Yes, the timing was unfair, but he did tell her, and then the ball was in her court. What was he supposed to do, continue to push his feeling on her, or pressure her to reciprocate? If he did that then he would be rightfully accused of stepping over a line. Iris is a grown ass woman, if she had feelings for Barry, or needed time to process his confession, she could have delayed moving in with Eddie. She chose to go ahead and do it, and I don't see how Barry could take that as anything else but "sorry, I don't have romantic feelings for you".

I feel like Barry's getting blamed for everything: he's getting blamed for waiting so long to tell Iris (which while I understand, it was either tell her then or not tell he at all), he's getting blamed for dating Linda because she's a coworker of Iris, he's getting blamed for showing up at the newspaper because that's "rubbing Iris' face in it", he's getting blamed for being upset that Iris told Linda that he had feelings for someone else, and he's getting called a "nice guy" which apparently now means "manipulative asshole".

I know this isn't going to happen, but I wish they'd write Iris out because it's fast becoming clear that she's not Laurel Lance as I originally feared, but Lana Lang, the perfect little princess, who can't possible be held accountable for her decisions or the passive aggressive crap she pulls. I watch this show for Barry, not Iris, and if she can't be a part of his story (like Joe, Cisco, Caitlyn, or even freaking Wells) without making him the bad guy every step of the way, I'd just rather see her gone.

Iris has gotten tons of hate for the last episode in various places of fandom and there have been fans calling for her ouster since the show even premiered. Don't worry, if you don't like her, you have plenty of company.

I actually like both of them for the most part and think they have great chemistry when he's in Flash mode. I'm rooting for them to get together. I just think the writers are writing stupid things to delay them getting together and to promote dumb CW triangles. I also dislike that the things Iris does seems to get excoriated, while Barry tends to get a pass. I'm sure once the Linda triangle resolves, things will get much better. I'm hoping the writers have a plan in mind to eventually get Barry and Iris together in a mature way and without making either one of them seem like bad guys.

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No! Kill it. Kill it with fire! Lol, let's hope not. I don't think the show is saying that yet, just Phoenics.

No - I didn't say that - please don't be rude and put words in my mouth. My fear is that the show might do that and I really don't want to start the whole discussion again (racism) about why I fear that might happen. Okay?

 

I know this isn't going to happen, but I wish they'd write Iris out because it's fast becoming clear that she's not Laurel Lance as I originally feared, but Lana Lang, the perfect little princess, who can't possible be held accountable for her decisions or the passive aggressive crap she pulls.

I rest my case.

Iris has been getting nothing but hatred - look at her thread - since before the show began and so far, she's the only one out of her and Barry to have suffered any consequences for any actions - Barry blessed her out. Before that, she didn't stop writing the blog, and Barry cut her off.

I think The Flash got some unfair heat from Iris over the evilFlash thing, but from Iris' pov, she had no reason to believe what he was saying - especially since everyone (including Barry) had been warning her against being around The Flash and the meta humans.

Iris prompted Lana Lang and Laurel Lance comparisons from before the pilot even aired - simply because some fans didn't like the look of her and preferred Caitlin. That's not a special snowflake - that's folks predispositioning themselves to hate a character before she even appeared onscreen.

And folks wonder why Iris fans worry about her being killed off or marginalized or shoved to the side - it's because some vocal parts of the fandom have been calling for her "death" or "to be written off" since before the show premiered.

Edited by phoenics.
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Iris prompted Lana Lang and Laurel Lance comparisons from before the pilot even aired - simply because some fans didn't like the look of her and preferred Caitlin. That's not a special snowflake - that's folks predispositioning themselves to hate a character before she even appeared onscreen.

And folks wonder why Iris fans worry about her being killed off or marginalized or shoved to the side - it's because some vocal parts of the fandom have been calling for her "death" or "to be written off" since before the show premiered.

Once again, I'm not a Snowbarry shipper. If anything I ship Caitlyn with Ronnie. Do I like her more than Iris? Of course I do, why wouldn't I? She's got interesting relationships with Barry, Cisco and Wells; she may develop superpowers of her own down the line, and she might go evil if they stick with comic canon. Iris is nothing but a love interest, and not a very entertaining one at that. You know all that stuff with Linda: Barry acting like a big goofball, tripping all over himself, and then eating the pepper? I ENJOYED that. If that was the kind of stuff  they were doing with Barry and Iris, I'd be behind them, but they're not. It's all angst, and triangles, and OMG, does she like him or not?! That bores me to TEARS, and I resent that it will inevitably eat up more screen time as the show progresses.

 

Not everyone who's anti-ship is pro-some other ship. Sometimes, they just like other aspects of a show, and they don't want to see what they enjoy overshadowed by something they don't.

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I wish they would mature Barry a bit. This personality they've given him really doesn't suit the man who is supposed to be a smart CSI. They can cut some of those corny jokes for some real personality development. I'm not a fan of the nice guy trope they're currently pushing.

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I watch this show for Barry, not Iris, and if she can't be a part of his story (like Joe, Cisco, Caitlyn, or even freaking Wells) without making him the bad guy every step of the way, I'd just rather see her gone.

 

How is she making him look like the bad guy?

 

And the only thing Lana and Iris have in common is the demographic of hate they attract.

Edited by driedfruit.
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Once again, I'm not a Snowbarry shipper. If anything I ship Caitlyn with Ronnie. Do I like her more than Iris? Of course I do, why wouldn't I? She's got interesting relationships with Barry, Cisco and Wells; she may develop superpowers of her own down the line, and she might go evil if they stick with comic canon. Iris is nothing but a love interest, and not a very entertaining one at that. You know all that stuff with Linda: Barry acting like a big goofball, tripping all over himself, and then eating the pepper? I ENJOYED that. If that was the kind of stuff they were doing with Barry and Iris, I'd be behind them, but they're not. It's all angst, and triangles, and OMG, does she like him or not?! That bores me to TEARS, and I resent that it will inevitably eat up more screen time as the show progresses.

Yet somehow all of the ire for that falls solely on Iris.

Got it.

I completely disagree with your assessment of Iris (how is she making him the bad guy????) - but criticisms similar to your comments have come up in the thread pages before this and others have already addressed those criticisms of Iris (and refuted them, imo) - so I won't go down that road again.

 

Not everyone who's anti-ship is pro-some other ship. Sometimes, they just like other aspects of a show, and they don't want to see what they enjoy overshadowed by something they don't.

Sure - that's fair - but even still in your analysis, you're clearly a lot more harsh on Iris than on Barry - or even the writers. Why is that? Why is it that fandoms are always so hard on the female characters - not the others?

You say you want Iris to be part of Barry's story, but it's Barry's LIE that is preventing her from getting there. Where is all of the heated hatred for Barry then, since he's the only lying to her?

I wish they would mature Barry a bit. This personality they've given him really doesn't suit the man who is supposed to be a smart CSI. They can cut some of those corny jokes for some real personality development. I'm not a fan of the nice guy trope they're currently pushing.

Yes - this is what I was saying earlier - I think the fault for this lies with the whole Team Flash angle - them trying to shoehorn a similar dynamic that was successful on The Arrow. When Barry came to Starling City originally, he came by himself and seemed far more serious and level headed - even if he was there under false pretenses. But once they introduced the whole Team Flash into it, Barry seemed to become more like Wally West than Barry Allen (who has always been fairly self-sufficient).

I think the presence of Team Flash actually undermines Barry Allen a bit.

Edited by phoenics.
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I wish they would mature Barry a bit. This personality they've given him really doesn't suit the man who is supposed to be a smart CSI. They can cut some of those corny jokes for some real personality development. I'm not a fan of the nice guy trope they're currently pushing.

This. I was fine with Barry earlier in the season, but the last couple of episodes seem to be have taken a weird turn, especially with the nice guy complaining and Caitlin's "you deserve a peek" nice guy validation.

I also really dislike when they make Barry goofy. The aborted date with Linda and the ghost pepper stunt was too broad of humor for me and made Barry look rather juvenile, imo. I much prefer Barry when he's being smart and acting like a professional.

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Sure - that's fair - but even still in your analysis, you're clearly a lot more harsh on Iris than on Barry - or even the writers. Why is that? Why is it that fandoms are always so hard on the female characters - not the others?

 

You say you want Iris to be part of Barry's story, but it's Barry's LIE that is preventing her from getting there. Where is all of the heated hatred for Barry then, since he's the only lying to her?

Because I care about Barry, not Iris. I'm here for the Flash's story. I don't care about the love story, unless it entertains me, which it's not, at least at the moment. And, I'm not going easy on the writers; these are the same morons who made Arrow unwatchable for me. I fear they will trash this show the way they did that one.

 

As for Barry not telling Iris he's the flash; sure it's a stupid plot contrivance, but why would I hate him for it? It's his secret, he has the right to tell or not tell anyone he chooses. She's not entitled to that information. When she finds out, I expect her to be pissed off that he didn't tell her, but that doesn't mean she has some god-given right to know. They're not married, or in some kind of relationship; he's not under any obligation to tell her.

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Because I care about Barry, not Iris. I'm here for the Flash's story. I don't care about the love story, unless it entertains me, which it's not, at least at the moment. And, I'm not going easy on the writers; these are the same morons who made Arrow unwatchable for me. I fear they will trash this show the way they did that one.

 

As for Barry not telling Iris he's the flash; sure it's a stupid plot contrivance, but why would I hate him for it? It's his secret, he has the right to tell or not tell anyone he chooses. She's not entitled to that information. When she finds out, I expect her to be pissed off that he didn't tell her, but that doesn't mean she has some god-given right to know. They're not married, or in some kind of relationship; he's not under any obligation to tell her.

Well, they are best friends... I'd consider that a relationship that warranted her being told the truth... but I guess I view friendships like the one Barry and Iris have as being super important and close - when Iris finds out that Barry lied about this to her (and realizes he was flirting with her and secretly hoping she'd break up with Eddie over it - if she thinks hard enough she'll realize that) she will be angry and will have EVERY right to be.

I mean - that's kinda bad. On the one hand, Barry hasn't told her about his secret identity - and you could argue that was his secret to tell (but still, any best friend would be miffed at being left out so thoroughly - I'd be really hurt if that was my BFF).

On the other hand, it's even worse because Barry has been flirting with Iris and low-key trying to sabotage her relationship with Eddie - I think it was episode where he lost his powers? Basically, when Iris figures out all of that - I hope she's livid. That's truly manipulative. Of course she'll get over it - but I really hope she takes Barry to task for that. It really is kind of a betrayal.

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Because I care about Barry, not Iris. I'm here for the Flash's story. I don't care about the love story, unless it entertains me, which it's not, at least at the moment. And, I'm not going easy on the writers; these are the same morons who made Arrow unwatchable for me. I fear they will trash this show the way they did that one.

 

As for Barry not telling Iris he's the flash; sure it's a stupid plot contrivance, but why would I hate him for it? It's his secret, he has the right to tell or not tell anyone he chooses. She's not entitled to that information. When she finds out, I expect her to be pissed off that he didn't tell her, but that doesn't mean she has some god-given right to know. They're not married, or in some kind of relationship; he's not under any obligation to tell her.

 

I don't see the point of discussion if liking a character absolves them of all the messed up things they do. Of course bias plays a part subconsciously, but as much as I like Barry I'm not gonna give him (and the Star Labs team) a free pass for everything. The metahuman prison. The emotional manipulation as Flash. The juvenile crap...

 

And Barry keeping secrets from Iris, like the fact that her life is in danger is both messed up as well as something that has completely altered the dynamics of their relationship. Plot contrivance or not, it's a big part of everything that happens between them, so no way does Barry get a free pass on that.

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I wish they would mature Barry a bit. This personality they've given him really doesn't suit the man who is supposed to be a smart CSI. They can cut some of those corny jokes for some real personality development. I'm not a fan of the nice guy trope they're currently pushing.

 

 

This. I was fine with Barry earlier in the season, but the last couple of episodes seem to be have taken a weird turn, especially with the nice guy complaining and Caitlin's "you deserve a peek" nice guy validation.

I also really dislike when they make Barry goofy. The aborted date with Linda and the ghost pepper stunt was too broad of humor for me and made Barry look rather juvenile, imo. I much prefer Barry when he's being smart and acting like a professional.

 

All the versions of the Flash I've seen have been goofballs, or jokey. Isn't that one of his major characteristics? I don't have a problem with that. I'm glad Barry and this show isn't so serious.

 

And is being a nice guy a bad thing now? Or is this code for something else? Please explain.

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Barry and Iris do have a relationship. Its called friendship. And really if he can reveal his identity to villains and share these special secrets with people he met 9 months ago there's no excuse for not telling his lifelong best friend. Especially since Reverse Flash threatened her.


All the versions of the Flash I've seen have been goofballs, or jokey. Isn't that one of his major characteristics? I don't have a problem with that. I'm glad Barry and this show isn't so serious.

 

And is being a nice guy a bad thing now? Or is this code for something else? Please explain.

Have all versions you've seen been Bart and Wally? Because Barry Allen is not a goofball. Thats not to say he cant be light hearted but he was never this childish ladies man the show presents him as. That was always Wally.

 

Barry falls into the Nice Guy Syndrome which is not a good thing. Especially when you have characters like Caitlin saying he deserves a peak at the goodies cuz he's so nice.

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Barry and Iris do have a relationship. Its called friendship. And really if he can reveal his identity to villains and share these special secrets with people he met 9 months ago there's no excuse for not telling his lifelong best friend. Especially since Reverse Flash threatened her.

 

Well to be fair the last villain he exposed himself was his school bully he was gloating over as he sentenced him to life imprisonment. It did turn out to be a short life though as that prison sucks.

 

There's lots of reasons to not tell Iris that he's the Flash, sadly not any good reasons. For instance he can pretend to be someone suave and confident while wearing a 'rough trade' outfit and flirt with Iris. He wouldn't be able to do that if she knew who he was under that suit.

Edited by wayne67.
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Barry falls into the Nice Guy Syndrome which is not a good thing.

 

What does it mean?

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...

And is being a nice guy a bad thing now? Or is this code for something else? Please explain.

A "Nice Guy" tm basically is someone who feels like they deserve something from the object of their affection because they've been putting in the work by being nice to them. They'll complain about or resent that they've been so-called friendzoned. Contrast that to a true nice guy who does things for a friend simply out of the goodness of their hearts with no ulterior motive. I felt like Barry was a nice guy for most of the episodes, but he's been showing shades of Nice Guy lately. Couple that with Caitlin's "you deserve a peek" and it made me wonder what the writers are doing.

...As for Barry not telling Iris he's the flash; sure it's a stupid plot contrivance, but why would I hate him for it? It's his secret, he has the right to tell or not tell anyone he chooses. She's not entitled to that information. When she finds out, I expect her to be pissed off that he didn't tell her, but that doesn't mean she has some god-given right to know. They're not married, or in some kind of relationship; he's not under any obligation to tell her.

Since Iris' life was threatened, I think Barry should tell her. Also, Barry flirting with Iris as the Flash pushes this from just being his secret to squicky territory for me.

Edited by cynic.
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Here's a link that goes into a lot of detail about Nice Guy syndrome.

It does seem to get misapplied a lot IMO. I don't think Barry has been like that, I think he and iris have genuinely been friends, but there was one line I didn't like where I could see that applying. I don't think the Caitlin thing was anything but a hack line, and nothing with Caitlin showed Barry himself in a bad light.

I don't think iris is Lana, but I could see that being the most likely bad way they would take her character. Lana was sweet and nice and bland and pretty and iris is all of those things. They just need to give her more spark onscreen if they put her with Barry because like lokiberry I am enjoying Linda with the flash. Partly because they are just having fun, low drama entertaining fun. I can't see iris and Barry being low drama fun anytime soon if ever.

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