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Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

The promotion was a mess.

 

I think the ratings will drop but not sufficiently. The critics were very Meh on Black Canary. But it looks like giving Laurel five mins of being nice to Felicity and Diggle and a leather outfit seems to have softened up some audience members on the prospect. I noticed a lot of people moved to the 'give it a chance' column. Coupled that with the hate on Felicity…and I really don't know what the response is going to be. This threw me for a loop. 

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I really don't think this "hate" on Felicity is as widespread as folks on this forum think it is. Most of the comments I've seen are actually pretty supportive (except for those sites that have never liked Felicity because she's not a costumed hero). Maybe I'm just being incredibly naive and "safe" inside my bubble. I see the usual people complaining about her over and over again on the same sites (they use the same usernames so they're easy to keep track).

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For Canaries and Midnight City, I think that it's possible that we see another situation like the Sara episode, where a large chunk of viewers just bailed before the end of the episode.  I think people can handle a little Laurel, but things don't go as well when she's front and center.

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According to this Tumblr post, sweeps will likely feature episodes 12 (Uprising), 13 (Canaries), 14 (The Return) and 15 (Nanda Parbat). That's a chunk of episodes I have no interest in — so far. And I didn't realize two of the LL episodes fell during sweeps. Wow!

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I THINK sweeps starts this week and it explains why IMO we are finally getting Felicitys feelings for Oliver it's obvious she loves him but she hasn't said it yet. And of course this is why we are getting Laurel as BC Malcolm Flashbacks and Slade's return

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I THINK sweeps starts this week and it explains why IMO we are finally getting Felicitys feelings for Oliver it's obvious she loves him but she hasn't said it yet. And of course this is why we are getting Laurel as BC Malcolm Flashbacks and Slade's return

 

It starts on Thursday, so 311 is one day short of Sweeps. Doesn't count. :)

 

Also, AFAIK, only 313 is Laurel-centric. 312 is

Malcolm's flashback episode

per the episode description. 314 is

flashback-heavy/Bad Wig Oliver in Starling City

, and all we know for certain about 315 is the title, but unless Laurel is leaving for Nanda Parbat, it might not relate to her much?

Edited by dancingnancy.
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It starts on Thursday, so 311 is one day short of Sweeps. Doesn't count. :)

Oh ok thanks for the Clarification!!

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Ahhh ... OK, I still have it in my head that 3x12 is part of the BC arc. I thought it covered 4 eps, 10, 11, 12 and 13. Or if we're just talking trilogy, then 11, 12 and 13. See, this is why the damn promotions were so damn confusing, LOL!

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Ahhh ... OK, I still have it in my head that 3x12 is part of the BC arc. I thought it covered 4 eps, 10, 11, 12 and 13. Or if we're just talking trilogy, then 11, 12 and 13. See, this is why the damn promotions were so damn confusing, LOL!

The BC trilogy hasn't started yet-it's 11-13.

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Yeah, she definitely plays a part in 312, it's in the episode description, even, but I'm guessing she'll be more screen time heavy in 311 and 313, than 312.

 

But who knows, maybe 312 IS Laurel vs. Malcolm, for my endless point and laugh amusement.

Edited by dancingnancy.
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Isn't 312 when Laurel and Roy want to bring Malcolm into the Team?

 

The trilogy promotion is confusing.  From what I can gather, the Brick trilogy is 310 - 312, although someone said he was in 313 as well.  The Black Canary trilogy is 311 - 313, but they were talking up 310 because that's when she first appears as Justice.  (And now I have a picture in my mind of Laurel's Canary as a Greek statue along with the other gods, Athena, Poisidon, Apollo, Artemis, Zeus, Hera...)

 

I have a hard time reconciling an episode that is pretty much about Laurel (Canaries) with sweeps week. By then, feeling about her will have consolidated -- if the arc worked for you, you'll watch to see the new Black Canary; if it didn't you'll won't want to tune it.

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I have a hard time reconciling an episode that is pretty much about Laurel (Canaries) with sweeps week. By then, feeling about her will have consolidated -- if the arc worked for you, you'll watch to see the new Black Canary; if it didn't you'll won't want to tune it.

But "Canaries" is also the episode where

Oliver is fully back with the team and the episode that sees the return of Sara with the "epic" Canary vs. BC fight, so the EPs are expecting that more fans will be tuning in to see them.

Edited by tv echo.
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All of this is making it really hard to decide which episodes to skip, if any. I'm sure that's the point. Last year, they would promote something as being a lot of laurel and then it would be a lot of good felicity or something. I can't figure any of it out from descriptions...

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you're misreading it.  they didn't report the Top 25 from last week and they don't have any of the other demos. 

 

the households were down but only slightly.

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I'm actually thinking Flash might have helped Arrow quite a bit because before the crossover the ratings were down week to week and now they are  higher than last season. I could be wrong though. 

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I'm actually thinking Flash might have helped Arrow quite a bit because before the crossover the ratings were down week to week and now they are  higher than last season. I could be wrong though. 

 

It's true.

 

Average 18-49 demo through 2x07: 0.985 

Average 18-49 demo through 3x07: 0.942 (-4,37%)

 

Average total viewers through 2x07: 2.801 million viewers

Average total viewers through 3x07: 2.591 million viewers (-7.5%)

 

Average 18-49 demo from 2x08 - 2x11: 1.025

Average 18-49 demo from 3x08 - 3x11: 1.175 (+12,77%)

 

Average total viewers from 2x08 - 2x11: 2.8175 million viewers

Average total viewers from 3x08 - 3x11: 3.2275 million viewers (+12,71%)

 

 

Clearly, Arrow was able to gain new viewers due to the extra exposure from the Flash crossover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anecdotally, I only started watching Arrow after the crossover. I mainlined 2 and a half seasons over a long holiday weekend. So... I bet it helped. :)

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It may just be possible that people WANT to see the actual BC on the show? 

 

Very likely.  Heck, I would like to see a REAL Black Canary on the show as well but they killed her off at the beginning of the season.

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Sara was never the Black Canary. Only similarity is that she could fight. 

 

Sara may not have been the real Black Canary, but they gave her many BC traits including a surrogate relationship with Sin, a version of the canary cry, an on-off relationship with Oliver Queen and a romantic connection to a member of the Al Ghul family. However, there very well may have been a lot of people amongst casual viewers that were waiting for the real Black Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance) to rise and take her rightful place at Oliver Queen's side.

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Sara was never the Black Canary. Only similarity is that she could fight. 

 

Then why did the showrunners themselves call her Black Canary at times?

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Then why did the showrunners themselves call her Black Canary at times?

I believe they only called her Canary. But even so..she was BC the way Yao Fei was GA (or Arrow)

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Glad to see Laurel's BC is not killing the show. 

 

I think it's quite possible many viewers tuned in to see what was happening with Oliver considering he was resurrected the episode before.

 

Also, some viewers might have a morbid curiosity about what was going to happen with Laurel. Some might have tuned into see her fail too. 

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I think it's quite possible many viewers tuned in to see what was happening with Oliver considering he was resurrected the episode before.

 

Also, some viewers might have a morbid curiosity about what was going to happen with Laurel. Some might have tuned into see her fail too. 

 

This.

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I believe they only called her Canary. But even so..she was BC the way Yao Fei was GA (or Arrow)

 

The show had Vertigo 1.0 and now Vertigo 2.0.  Billy Wintergreen was Deathstroke 1.0 and Slade Wilson was Deathstroke 2.0 .

 

Sara is/was Black Canary 1.0 .Laurel is Black Canary 2.0.  

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I believe they only called her Canary. But even so..she was BC the way Yao Fei was GA (or Arrow)

 

Guggenheim occasionally referred to Sara as the Black Canary in interviews.

 

Yao Fei wore a green hood and shot arrows. Other than that, he was nothing like Oliver Queen's Green Arrow. Different purposes, different motivations, different almost everything.

 

The question is, what defines a character as the Black Canary?  Is it her prowess with martial arts, her burning desire to protect and defend people who can't defend themselves, a canary cry, her relationship with Sin, the on-again off-again relationship of equals with Oliver Queen?

 

Or is it the name Dinah Laurel Lance?

 

They made Sara the Black Canary of the comics in all but name which is why Laurel has to "become her sister" (per MG) if she's going to be the comics Black Canary.

 

I thought Left Behind was a very good episode and that helped the ratings in Midnight City. I agree that many people tuned in to see what happens with Oliver (hence the promos for next episode showing him coming back) and curiosity about Laurel as BC as well as those viewers from the comic books who are thrilled that now the rightful BC has taken her place.

 

The question of whether they like this version of Laurel and how it affects the show overall won't show up in the ratings for another few episodes.

Edited by statsgirl.
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There's also the fact that ratings went up after the Flash crossover episodes, which barely featured Laurel.   The highest rated episodes before the Flash crossovers were "The Calm" and "The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak," which weren't Laurel episodes.  The Laurel focused episodes were among the lowest rated of the season so far.  (And although the demo stayed steady, total viewers did go down for "Midnight City" and Twitter numbers plunged.) 

 

Not to say that viewers, or at least some viewers, weren't looking forward to Laurel becoming Black Canary, but I have to agree that the crossover episodes seem to have been a bigger factor here. (And also, Barry Allen showed up "The Calm" if only for three seconds, so....)

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Ratings people: What do they mean when they say numbers were 'flat'? Also, Twitter numbers?

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Right. So...it was written from the start. 

 

 

Maybe I've lost the thread of the discussion. I thought you were saying that Sara was never the Black Canary and that only Laurel was.  Sara was Black Canary and now Laurel is. 

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Ratings people: What do they mean when they say numbers were 'flat'? Also, Twitter numbers?

the ratings stayed the same from last week. Twitter numbers are rarely reported I think 

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Honestly, I don't really care that the ratings stayed the same, I mean complaining about the ratings or being bitter about it isn't really going to help, you know it's bad when you see people on imdb sort of make fun of the fact that people on this board are bitter about the ratings. Hopefully they rise next week when Oliver returns. :) 

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Twitter ratings are reported everyday.


3x10 Twitter ratings

32518b930c4fac4a5b92052783964112.jpg

 

3x11 Twitter ratings

 

a293c9a32bba63690f1aa530b4217e05.jpg

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How did the ratings hold up at the half hour mark? I can't see that figure in the link.  If the show lost some viewers for the 2nd half, that could indicate that once Oliver was known to be alive and walking/talking that interest waned a tad. if it held steady, then people wanted to see the rest of the episode with all that it brought.

 

I don't give any credence to the opinions of the commenters on IMDB.

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One thing that was surprising in the ratings this week was the fact that apparently Arrow got better ratings in A18-34 (1.0) than Flash (0.9)

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Maybe I've lost the thread of the discussion. I thought you were saying that Sara was never the Black Canary and that only Laurel was.  Sara was Black Canary and now Laurel is. 

My mistake. I should have emphasized the "the". Sara was a Canary and maybe even a Black Canary..but she wasn't and was never going to be THE BC. 

 

One thing that was surprising in the ratings this week was the fact that apparently Arrow got better ratings in A18-34 (1.0) than Flash (0.9)

 

Doesn't surprise me..nor does Flash getting lower ratings while people tune into Parks instead (I know I will for the last two weeks)

Edited by wingster55.
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I never really put much stock into ratings. I put no stock into the IMDB commentators. That place is where the trolls live and breed. 

Edited by Sakura12.
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Doesn't surprise me..nor does Flash getting lower ratings while people tune into Parks instead (I know I will for the last two weeks)

Its surprising because the Flash A18-34 rating has been droping the last 3 episodes:

1x09 had a 1.2

1x10 had a 1.1

1x11 had a 0.9

Seems they get more viewers in 35-54 demo. While Arrows stays the same in 18-49 & 25-54 demo.

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I expect next week the rating should get a bump since Oliver will finally be returning but I'll be curious about how the numbers fair the week after.

 

Also, the numbers this week did fall, not the 18-49 demo but the actual viewer numbers for Arrow fell and I was rather surprised since usually the really rough week is the one when they just return from the hiatus since everyone is out of the habit of watching. 

Edited by BkWurm1.
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How did the ratings hold up at the half hour mark? I can't see that figure in the link.  If the show lost some viewers for the 2nd half, that could indicate that once Oliver was known to be alive and walking/talking that interest waned a tad. if it held steady, then people wanted to see the rest of the episode with all that it brought.

 

Total viewers dropped a little, but not by much:

 

8:00 p.m.

 

CW – Arrow

Viewers: 2.93 million (#5), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#4)

———-

8:30 p.m.

CW – Arrow

Viewers: 2.80 million (#5), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#4)

 

Source

 

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Honestly, I don't really care that the ratings stayed the same, I mean complaining about the ratings or being bitter about it isn't really going to help, you know it's bad when you see people on imdb sort of make fun of the fact that people on this board are bitter about the ratings. Hopefully they rise next week when Oliver returns. :) 

 

Wow, are people really making fun of that?  I've said that I'm annoyed about the ratings because it probably means we're stuck with Laurel, but I wouldn't say I'm "bitter" about it or that I've really complained about it that much.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit.
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My mistake. I should have emphasized the "the". Sara was a Canary and maybe even a Black Canary..but she wasn't and was never going to be THE BC. 

 

 

Exept when she was - by DC, the EPs, as an action figure and a Lego game character.

 

I think curiosity about how Laurel's version would play out was a factor in viewership, whether to entice people to watch or to turn them away. 

 

Caity Lotz was also listed as a guest star for the episode. But only her voice was used. I doubt it affected ratings but the tease seemed to indicate that she'd be seen, not just heard.

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I still think the majority of viewers watch for Oliver Queen. I mean I have no numbers to back up my assertion but it started as Oliver's journey, so if Oliver dies, but is resurrected, I would think the viewers that watch for you know, the Arrow, will want to know what the Arrow is doing in the next episode. 

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Wow, are people really making fun of that?  I've said that I'm annoyed about the ratings because it probably means we're stuck with Laurel, but I wouldn't say I'm "bitter" about it or that I've really complained about it that much.

It's sad, I haven't complained either. Half the things that person said was pretty hateful towards this board and imo unfair? Oh well. Can't please them all

Edited by wonderwall.
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