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About Nora's story next season: I hope the writers have figured out* the time travel rules for the show, because that quote from Helbing about how the times we've seen Nora have been different times she's time-traveled has me a little worried. They didn't really think through the time loop/paradox of Savitar and Iris' death in Season 3. I assume each time she's come to the past has made a change in the future, so right there, there's at least 4 different timelines.

Either we're gonna need a chart, or they just be like "time travel is weird, just go with it". (Kind of like, "the Thinker knows everything, just go with it" this past season.)

 

*(ha! unlikely, but let me be slightly optimistic...)

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15 hours ago, Trini said:

To me, it sounds like they will try and make next season's villain sympathetic, and maybe there'll be more backstory. I'm really curious about the scene that was cut from the finale - the one that was going to tease the next villian - they way Grant described it, I thought it might be something/someone that connects to one of the main characters.

I like for stories to give villains backstories. It helps make them non-one dimensional.

I hope the villain isn't connected to any of the main characters besides Barry. The show is called The Flash and the villain should be connected to the title hero. It's bad enough he isn't the only hero on his own team anymore. DeVoe didn't even feel like Barry's big bad. DeVoe was basically Ralph and Harry's big bad more so than Barry's. I need the writers to make Barry special again.

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4 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I like for stories to give villains backstories. It helps make them non-one dimensional.

I hope the villain isn't connected to any of the main characters besides Barry. The show is called The Flash and the villain should be connected to the title hero. It's bad enough he isn't the only hero on his own team anymore. DeVoe didn't even feel like Barry's big bad. DeVoe was basically Ralph and Harry's big bad more so than Barry's. I need the writers to make Barry special again.

I thought that DP was said to have been upset because one of her scenes was cut from the finale. To my knowledge, only the S5 villain reveal had been cut. I wonder if the S5 villain is the "Thomas" we heard Cecile mention when she was channeling KF. If yes, then the villain is related to Caitlin.

Edited by adora721.
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11 minutes ago, adora721 said:

I thought that DP was said to have been upset one of her scenes was cut from the finale. To my knowledge, only the S5 villain reveal had been cut. I wonder if the S5 villain is the "Thomas" we heard Cecile mention when she was channeling KF. If yes, then the villain is related to Caitlin.

A supporting character should not be related to the big bad. The big bad is suppose to be tied to the lead character. I tune in for Barry's story.

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3 hours ago, adora721 said:

I thought that DP was said to have been upset one of her scenes was cut from the finale. To my knowledge, only the S5 villain reveal had been cut. I wonder if the S5 villain is the "Thomas" we heard Cecile mention when she was channeling KF. If yes, then the villain is related to Caitlin.

Interesting.... But on the other hand, I don't want it to be Caitlin's father either, because her stories are convoluted enough.

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3 hours ago, adora721 said:

I thought that DP was said to have been upset because one of her scenes was cut from the finale. To my knowledge, only the S5 villain reveal had been cut. I wonder if the S5 villain is the "Thomas" we heard Cecile mention when she was channeling KF. If yes, then the villain is related to Caitlin.

I never read anywhere that DP was upset about a scene being cut.

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51 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I never read anywhere that DP was upset about a scene being cut.

It was a comment on a YT video that stated DP mentioned it on her Twitter feed. I didn't go verify though, so my bad.

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35 minutes ago, adora721 said:

It was a comment on a YT video that stated DP mentioned it on her Twitter feed. I didn't go verify though, so my bad.

Thanks for explaining. I looked at her Twitter feed & she posted this screen cap of Caitlin, Joe, & Cecile & said she doesn't think it made the cut. She didn't say anything about this scene being about Caitlin or upset it was cut:

https://mobile.twitter.com/dpanabaker/status/998942483118604288

Edited by Proteus.
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4 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Thanks for explaining. I looked at her Twitter feed & she posted this screen cap of Caitlin, Joe, & Cecile & said she doesn't think it made the cut. She didn't say anything about this scene being about Caitlin or upset it was cut:

https://mobile.twitter.com/dpanabaker/status/998942483118604288

Well, she did have an angry face emoji! Does that count as upset? :)

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On 5/31/2018 at 3:49 PM, BeautifulFlower said:

A supporting character should not be related to the big bad. The big bad is suppose to be tied to the lead character. I tune in for Barry's story.

I'm personally not enthused about Thomas being Caitlin's Dad and Season 5 Big Bad because I think the show props Caitlin too much but the above is not necessarily true. There are really no story-telling "rules" that can't be broken by good writing. If they make the big bad's relationship with the supporting character tie back to the lead, then it can be well done. 

For example, I think the story failed in season 3 when they didn't give Iris more agency in the Savitar storyline and made it all about Barry.

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So, here's my official guess on the KF storyline. 

We always believed that Caitlin didn't have powers before FlashPoint because of Wells metahuman alert machine. However, I think it could only check for dark matter, not gene anomalies. When Cisco and Harry checked Caitlin initially after touching The Thinker, she didn't have dark matter. When she checked her genes, she found out she had it again. 

@Kate45 said this in the Think Fast thread.

This is how Caitlin's story doesn't make sense. We know in the pre-flashpoint timeline, Wells device couldn't detect her. Cisco and Harry used a dark matter scanner in 4x18, no dark matter was in her. The test Caitlin ran in 4x19, she did it with the intention of finding some leftover dark matter. That's where she found that cryogenic thing.

Here's what is confusing.

If we assume that Caitlin still ran tests on herself in the post flashpoint timeline after the particle accelerator exploded, how was she just now discovering the gene thing? I'm talking immediately after the explosion. Do the writers think these things through?

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On 6/8/2018 at 10:40 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

@Kate45 said this in the Think Fast thread.

This is how Caitlin's story doesn't make sense. We know in the pre-flashpoint timeline, Wells device couldn't detect her. Cisco and Harry used a dark matter scanner in 4x18, no dark matter was in her. The test Caitlin ran in 4x19, she did it with the intention of finding some leftover dark matter. That's where she found that cryogenic thing.

Here's what is confusing.

If we assume that Caitlin still ran tests on herself in the post flashpoint timeline after the particle accelerator exploded, how was she just now discovering the gene thing? I'm talking immediately after the explosion. Do the writers think these things through?

I thought the dark matter gave people meta-human genes or mutated existing genes that gave people powers. https://youtu.be/vMuAdcz7-JI

I found the scene that shows Wells using the meta-human watch app; I'm not sure what it's detecting:  https://youtu.be/pfi1jM1QUXE. Note the irony of Caitlin stating that getting powers wouldn't turn anyone evil.  

In 3x5, Caitlin told her mom that she assumed her powers came from the PA explosion. Her mom's message only stated that her body's chemistry is changing in ways she didn't fully understand. https://youtu.be/b-U8a6_O664

 In 3x6, Caitlin tells Cisco she's run every test, but no mention of a gene. https://youtu.be/tLvsDyuRtjA

In 3x23, Julian brings the experimental gene therapy that will, "Rewrite Caitlin's meta DNA."https://youtu.be/dR116IC7z2A

While re-watching season 1x7, Cait says, "Your DNA was transformed by the particle accelerator blast. There's no way to untransform DNA".  I can't find a clip of the scene, but this is the episode that explicitly stated that the PA explosion transformed DNA. Found the clip; it starts at .25 :https://youtu.be/NIei6xIf27M

Edited by adora721.
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So with Danielle Nicolet becoming a regular in Season 5, it looks like the next season will be focusing more on the West/Allen families; plus, someone needs to take care of that baby! Hopefully, with Cecile locked in, this means that they can finally have her and Joe get married.

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I'm so glad that Cecile is sticking around more permanently. I adore her.

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Hopefully, this will be a better send off episode. Seriously, they had Wally just leaving in 4x03. Then, he briefly comes back at the end of 4x7. Only appeared in part 1 of the crossover at the wedding, which was on Supergirl. No proper send off whatsoever from The Flash.

Edited by BeautifulFlower. Reason: changed wording
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2 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Hopefully, this will be a better send off episode. Seriously, they had Wally just leaving in 4x03. Then, he briefly comes back at the end of 4x7. Only appeared in part 1 of the crossover at the wedding, which was on Supergirl. No proper send off whatsoever from The Flash.

Unless they're killing him off. ☹️

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33 minutes ago, ursula said:

Unless they're killing him off. ☹️

No way would they do that. Brandon Routh mentioned he'd be back on Legends anyway.

Edited by Proteus.
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That tweet seems to be gone now.

I doubt Wally's getting any send off while they're busy setting up the new season. But it'd be nice if there was one.

Edited by Trini. Reason: ugh, I swear I know how to type!
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On 30/05/2018 at 10:59 PM, Trini said:

To me, it sounds like they will try and make next season's villain sympathetic, and maybe there'll be more backstory. I'm really curious about the scene that was cut from the finale - the one that was going to tease the next villian - they way Grant described it, I thought it might be something/someone that connects to one of the main characters.

The most logical guess is Caitlin but we both know the show won't go there.

So they posted a Wally West tweet and deleted it. I wonder why? I imagine that nothing's changed and he'll still make an appearance on the show.

Wait a minute - is KL leaving Legends too or am I getting my young black male characters being fired from that show mixed up?

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1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

Wait a minute - is KL leaving Legends too or am I getting my young black male characters being fired from that show mixed up?

When the announcement was made, they/he said that he is leaving both shows; but will make an appearance in the Flash season premiere.

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On July 11, 2018 at 11:22 PM, Trini said:

That tweet seems to be gone now.

I doubt Wally's getting any send off while they're busy setting up the new season. But it'd be nice if there was one.

It wasn't a tweet. It was on Instagram:

KNZFUj1.jpg&key=0da0aa8fa450da397986ac46

 

He also said at several con appearances that Wally will be back on Legends for a few.

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TV Guide Magazine Comic Con edition - Helbing interview:


I'm wondering how long ago this interview took place. The only real new-ish info is more confirmation that Nora's mistake (and fixing it, I assume) is the big arc next season, and that Caitlin's powers was something that was done to her and exploring that (as a team?). Tragic backstory, here we come!

I guess they'll get into it at Comic-Con, but I'm still surprised there's been hardly anything about the villain.

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Thanks for posting! I was looking for the TV Guide info. It's mostly just reiterating what we already know, but I'm ok with that.

Kind of random for them to ask about a romance between Marlize and Harry, lol, but who knows it might be cute and they probably can't talk about the new version of Wells yet. It does confirm that they have plans to bring Harry back at some point.

I'd so be up for an Iris and Kara teaming up as reporters! I think they're going to Gotham during this year's big crossover? Could be a good opportunity for something like this.

Not sure if it was posted here, but a while back there was a character description released (probably for the big bad) and it sounded like he too go his powers from somewhere other than the particle accelerator. So that's probably connected to what happened to Caitlin. There's been speculation that the new villain is Cicada who in the comics had some sort of cult. If they do something like that the cult was probably around before the particle accelerator explosion.

Nora would already know what name Cisco comes up with for her, since she's from the future, right?

Nothing on Cisco, Joe and Cecile here, but I remember in an earlier interview Todd Helbing mentioned they have a storyline in mind for Cisco and Joe and Cecile will probably be dealing with being parents.

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9 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Thanks for posting! I was looking for the TV Guide info. It's mostly just reiterating what we already know, but I'm ok with that.

I read the issue at the store , and there was also a spread about the past 'big bads', and one with behind-the-scenes photos and blurbs.

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So if Danielle P. is directing an episode, there are going to be two 'Caitlin-lite' episodes - the one she's directing and the one before (because she has to prep). Tom C. mentioned that's how it went for him when he directed. I was a little worried that it might impede the KF arc that Caitlin is supposed to have, but on the other hand, the show has tended to have all the big events for a side character arc happen all in 2 or 3 episodes for the season, so it probably won't affect it much.

Edited by Trini.
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On 7/17/2018 at 6:27 PM, Trini said:

So if Danielle P. is directing an episode, there are going to be two 'Caitlin-lite' episodes - the one she's directing and the one before (because she has to prep). Tom C. mentioned that's how it went for him when he directed. I was a little worried that it might impede the KF arc that Caitlin is supposed to have, but on the other hand, the show has tended to have all the big events for a side character arc happen all in 2 or 3 episodes for the season, so it probably won't affect it much.

 

Actually, 3 episodes, if we go by Tom’s directing paradigm. 

He directed 3x19 and 4x04. He had a small role in 3x18 and a larger role in 3x20. He said in an interview that he worked too much on his post production episode in season 3. So, you’ll notice that in season 4 he had a small role in 4x03 and 4x05. I’ll be interested in seeing how they work it with Danielle. It may be a model they can use with the other actors that appear in every episode who also want to direct an episode. 

Edited by Kate45.
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So David McWhirter is the premiere director; he's done a few of the better episodes of the past 2 seasons.

And Grant thinks this might be his favorite premiere episode, and it's titled "Nora". He must really excited to have a full-grown daughter to play off of!

---

Also, good luck to the editors that have only two days to put together a trailer!

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I must say whilst I'm looking forward to the next season, Cicada might just be the most unintimidating name for a Big Bad ever.

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A whole bunch of Comic Con press room cast interviews videos coming; I haven't watched all of them yet.

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moviemaniacsDE - Grant Gustin, Danielle Panabaker, Hartley Sawyer, Danielle Nicolet, Candice Patton, Carlos Valdes, Jessica Parker Kennedy, Tom Cavanagh and Todd Helbing:

 

ShowbizJunkies - Grant Gustin

Danielle Panabaker - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1BbRq4-6Bs

Hartley Sawyer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-rSoE8R2X4

Jessica P. Kennedy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRg7msTMcio

Carlos Valdes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2HY94rTGLQ

Candice Patton - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ3VeEUE3g0

 

Clevver News - Cast teases:

Candice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0AegdWB_ao

Jessica P.K. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ozlYXEnIU

Grant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONmanrJxuSw

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Thanks for posting all the press round table ones. Hadn't seen all of these yet.

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If they are talking 'real' deaths for major characters this makes me feel a little nervous for Wally.  The only other character given the current cast that I think is expendable that the audience would accept without rioting are the newer regulars -- Cecile and Ralph.  But... but... I am also a little nervous for Joe.  Out of all the regulars, I could see Jesse L. Martin getting maybe a little fidgety after five years.

Candice's reaction to the "arrow free" vow renewal. "The shaaaade, honey" made me LOL.  Also Helbig's reaction "buttons."  Makes me wonder if he is referring to fans or if the cast was also triggered by that.  I read somewhere that the person who penned that episode of the crossover -- even though she was a  Legends writer -- was originally an Arrow writer for the first four seasons of that show.  So no wonder poor Barry and Iris got jacked.

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3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

If they are talking 'real' deaths for major characters this makes me feel a little nervous for Wally.  The only other character given the current cast that I think is expendable that the audience would accept without rioting are the newer regulars -- Cecile and Ralph.  But... but... I am also a little nervous for Joe.  Out of all the regulars, I could see Jesse L. Martin getting maybe a little fidgety after five years.

Candice's reaction to the "arrow free" vow renewal. "The shaaaade, honey" made me LOL.  Also Helbig's reaction "buttons."  Makes me wonder if he is referring to fans or if the cast was also triggered by that.  I read somewhere that the person who penned that episode of the crossover -- even though she was a  Legends writer -- was originally an Arrow writer for the first four seasons of that show.  So no wonder poor Barry and Iris got jacked.

I'm most nervous about Joe cause it seems like the writers don't have much to give him in term of an arc. I think he was the only character who wasn't mention at all in term of storylines for next season. I think this would make Jesse want to leave and I would hate, hate to lose Joe. 

Yeah, I read somewhere the Arrow writers had the most say in the cross-over, which explained a lot, lol.

Edited by SevenStars.
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The younger versions of Rogues stuff is interesting. So is this a way around Wentworth Miller retiring? We'll get a younger version of Snart?

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This is probably a dumb question, but when people post tweets here you see things like '40 people are talking about this' or something like that under the tweet, but sometimes when you click on it and go to the tweet there are only a few comments under the tweet or at least not that number. How is that number measured?

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5 hours ago, Proteus said:

The younger versions of Rogues stuff is interesting. So is this a way around Wentworth Miller retiring? We'll get a younger version of Snart?

He didn't clarify, but what I think he means is that they are going to try and do The Rogues (villain team) again, but with younger characters/actors. (::sigh:: CW....) I don't think it necessarily means younger versions of the Rogues that we've seen already.

 

11 hours ago, DearEvette said:

If they are talking 'real' deaths for major characters this makes me feel a little nervous for Wally.  The only other character given the current cast that I think is expendable that the audience would accept without rioting are the newer regulars -- Cecile and Ralph.  But... but... I am also a little nervous for Joe.  Out of all the regulars, I could see Jesse L. Martin getting maybe a little fidgety after five years.

I didn't like the "many deaths" comment, because it feels like it would be a re-hash of last season with all the 'bus metas' getting killed off. I don't want to have another season with a bunch of pointless murders that the team can't stop until May. But even without that comment, I'm afraid that's how it might be anyway with the description of Cicada:

Quote

Chris Klein has signed on as series regular to play next season's scourge of Central City, Cicada. A grizzled, blue-collar everyman whose family has been torn apart by metahumans, Cicada now seeks to exterminate the epidemic - one metahuman at a time.

 

But about Joe; I'd hate to see him killed off just after he and Cecile had a baby, but he does seem a likely candidate. (I'd always figured he was "safe" until Barry & Iris got married, and they are now, so....)

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2 hours ago, Trini said:

He didn't clarify, but what I think he means is that they are going to try and do The Rogues (villain team) again, but with younger characters/actors. (::sigh:: CW....) I don't think it necessarily means younger versions of the Rogues that we've seen already.

Ah, ok. I didn't think of it like that. You're probably right.

In the TV Line video interview they say the new Wells will have some romance. I wonder with who.

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I want to comment more on all the info from Comic-Con, but I need to compile and digest it all!

I will say that I'm glad that Iris will have another female/female relationship with Nora coming on, but I'm disappointed that it will be strained. Not surprising that the show prioritizes Barry's relationships (him and Nora apparently get along great), but the show already has a bad track record with Iris' relationships with other women. I'm hoping the tension is resolved fairly quickly -- probably will be since the show rarely draws out stuff like that, unless it's with Barry.

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Also the Flash ring is cool - I guess they have the budget for that now - but another new costume is coming apparently? We just got an upgrade. I just wish that the ring wasn't just plopped into Barry's lap from the future. Can they let him be the genius he's supposed to be?

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I like Chris Klein but I can't say I'm looking forward to his storyline.  It sounds like last season all over again and I don't have faith in this creative team to learn and change from that accordingly.

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21 minutes ago, benteen said:

I like Chris Klein but I can't say I'm looking forward to his storyline.  It sounds like last season all over again and I don't have faith in this creative team to learn and change from that accordingly.

Totally.  They have a good idea then they inevitably mess it up because they try to get fancy.  The Thinker started brilliantly.  But then they went and messed it up so hard.  They made him evil instead of making his idea evil, which would have been much more interesting. 

I'll bet Cicada starts our really cool. but by  mid-season his plans will be tedious and we won't have a clue as to what is actually happening.  Sigh.

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After thinking about it I'm actually glad that between Barry + Nora and Iris + Nora they've given Iris the storyline that gives the relationship a place to go to if that makes sense. There's a little more story to flesh out there. Obviously we'll see development between Barry and Nora as they get to know each other, but since they're starting from a different place with Iris they have to take that journey to find out what the problem is and then try to work through it. A lot of times they tend to just skip to the status quo with Iris. Her friendship with Linda, while cute, was never that developed. In S1 they didn't really get along and in S2 suddenly they're great friends. I like that we're going to see Iris'  relationship with her daughter grow and them working on resolving any issues from the future (Even if it's only a few episodes) and from the interviews it sounds like we'll even get to go into how Iris feels about what happened with her own mother and how that makes her feel.

 I'm already imagining a wonderful scene where Nora and Iris reconcile, with crying and hugging, lol.

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13 hours ago, Trini said:

I want to comment more on all the info from Comic-Con, but I need to compile and digest it all!

I will say that I'm glad that Iris will have another female/female relationship with Nora coming on, but I'm disappointed that it will be strained. Not surprising that the show prioritizes Barry's relationships (him and Nora apparently get along great), but the show already has a bad track record with Iris' relationships with other women. I'm hoping the tension is resolved fairly quickly -- probably will be since the show rarely draws out stuff like that, unless it's with Barry.

They confirmed it gets resolved in 5x02. I'm curious to why Nora is cold towards Iris. 

They also mentioned that Nora is very clingy to Barry. In an interview, Grant said Nora is 24. Todd already confirmed Nora comes from 30 years in the future (even Barry said it in the trailer). If Nora is 24 in 2048, she was born in 2023 or 2024. No matter what, Nora probably has never met Barry.  popular theory is that Iris probably forbidden Nora to time travel.

Either way, I hope it's not OOC reason, because I can't imagine Iris being  terrible mom.

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