Jessica Jones: No Alias Required

Seeing this, I was hoping that there had been some movement in casting. *sigh*

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So is Jessica the biggest 'asshole' protagonist we've seen so far in the Marvel movie/TV franchise?

 

The only one who comes close to her ability to rub people up the wrong way is Tony Stark, but he usually gets presented as charming enough that people don't take offense. Jessica is flat out told she's a dick, and while she seems to bridle at that, she doesn't really argue.

 

She does come across as likeable, but there is no sweetness and light with her, and the show relies upon Ritter's charisma and the wit they give the character to make her appealing.

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She does come across as likeable, but there is no sweetness and light with her

 

There's definitely some light. It's what's keeping her alive after all. She may not really know it's there, it seems to be more of an id thing, hardly conscious, she even seems to refuse it at times, but that whole friendship with Trish spells it out pretty clearly.

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There's definitely some light. It's what's keeping her alive after all. She may not really know it's there, it seems to be more of an id thing, hardly conscious, she even seems to refuse it at times, but that whole friendship with Trish spells it out pretty clearly.

 

'Sweetness and light' as in being friendly and approachable. I mean that the audience likes her, and the people who get to know her like her, but those she meets and interacts with briefly won't find much that is immediately appealing (outside her looks), because she makes no effort to be liked.

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Why does a girl have to be 'sweetness and light'? Tony Stark is a dick and no one bats an eye. Jennifer Jones has a little snark in her and it is some major character flaw and makes her less appealing as a lead?

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Why does a girl have to be 'sweetness and light'? Tony Stark is a dick and no one bats an eye. Jennifer Jones has a little snark in her and it is some major character flaw and makes her less appealing as a lead?

 

Did I say she did have to be? I was commenting on the fact that she's not, and yet is still likeable and appealing as a protagonist. And as you'll notice, I also made reference to Tony Stark as the character most similar, yet different because his behaviour is presented primarily as a part of his charm.

Edited by Danny Franks.

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Did I say she did have to be? I was commenting on the fact that she's not, and yet is still likeable and appealing as a protagonist. And as you'll notice, I also made reference to Tony Stark as the character most similar, yet different because his behaviour is presented primarily as a part of his charm.

You want to start a discussion on gender representation and how certain behaviour is suitable for men but not women, that's probably for a different thread.

Not really and i apologize if i mistook you statement. I made the mistake of reading a bunch of reviews on Netflix and a bunch of them had a similar point as you that they like the show but JJ came off as unlikeable because she wasn't a nice person. Personally I find that interesting.

I really hate getting into conversations about gender and race for that matter so I try to avoid it when I can. It is just a pet peeve when people say they don't like a female character because she comes off as unlikeable and then go on to spout the virtues of a similar type male.

But again I apologize if I misread your post.

Edited by Chaos Theory.

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Not really and i apologize if i mistook you statement. I made the mistake of reading a bunch of reviews on Netflux and a bunch of them had a similar point as you that they like the show but JJ came off as unlikeable because she wasn't a nice person. Personally I find that interesting.

I really hate getting int conversations about gender and race for that matter so I try to avoid it when I can. It is just a pet peeve when people say they don't like a female character because she comes off as unlikeable and then go on to spout the viruses of a similar type male.

But again I apologize if I misread your post.

 

Fair enough. Sorry for getting snippy. I find it interesting that they're allowing Jessica, in Ritter's words, "to be ugly", because it's not just that women often aren't allowed to be that on TV, but that Marvel haven't really allowed any of their principle characters to be that in their movies.

 

Tony is the closest, as established. But Cap, Thor, Banner, even Quill, they're all Good People in very obvious ways. Wanting to do good and to do the right thing, and they want to do it the 'right way'. And if they have moments of darkness, they're usually brief and a learning experience. Jessica is just unapologetic about her disdain for other people, and she's been pushed into acting through her own guilt and desire for revenge as much as anything, because her ambitions to be a superhero seem to have been pretty much squashed by Kilgrave.

 

I'm trying to avoid the gender issue, because I know it's a minefield, but I do feel like Jessica is the most unconventional protagonist that Marvel have given us thus far, in terms of asking viewers to like someone who can be unpleasant. I think it's a sign of their growing confidence as a production company. But also a sign of the strength of the material for this show, and the strength of Ritter's performances. If there are people who aren't able to get past Jessica's roughest edges, then that's a shame, because they're missing out.

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I'm enjoying the hell out of the show and while I empathize with and understand Jessica's motivations (as much as I can, on a theoretical level), that doesn't mean I like her. I don't. I'm rooting for her, certainly, and she's compelling to watch, but I'd never want to be her friend IRL.

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Jessica Jones fits perfectly in my favorite characters wheelhouse. She's tough, vulnerable, makes stupid choices while trying to help, doesn't see herself as a hero because she saves people, they just do it and don't expect anything in return. They are not perfect and never will be perfect. They fail, and try again. Never giving up even if cost them everything to do so.

 

She's an asshole and I like that they are not sugarcoating that. She is who she is, if you want to hang around her that is what you are going to get. 

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Jessica grew on me a lot after the first episode (I'm on 4 now). Her friendship with Trish, her actually talking to Luke and obviously caring about the people who have been mind-controlled by Kilgrave have humanized her a bit. 

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I think Tony is far and away a bigger asshole than Jessica. Jessica is damaged because she spent months being raped by Kilgrave and doing unsavory things culminating in the killing of Reva. That left her severely damaged, on top of the damage from her family being killed and her survivor's guilt that it was her fault, and an abusive adoptive mom. She takes every death Kilgrave causes personally.

Tony's best excuse for being as damaged as he is is an absentee father. As far as I can recall, he has shown no remorse for creating Ultron, who cost at least hundreds of lives and threatened global extinction.

I also think that Ant-Man and Starlord are in the same category as Jessica.

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Someone said that Krysten Ritter looks like Eva Green and now I can't unsee it. It's too bad Jess's mother is dead, Eva Green would've been great for that part. 

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Kriysten Ritter was born in 1981 and Eva Green was born in 1980.

 

In any case, I thought Ritter was very good in this role.  Never read the comic so I had no preconceived notion of what she was supposed to be like.

 

This is quirky, but I noticed it: Jessica uses the Firefox browser.  I use Firefox, too, but it is declining in popularity.  So I am glad Jessica uses it.

 

Could this be a case of product placement?  Doesn't seem like something the low-key Mozilla Corporation, which is owned by non-profit Mozilla Foundation, would do.

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Kriysten Ritter was born in 1981 and Eva Green was born in 1980.

 

In any case, I thought Ritter was very good in this role.  Never read the comic so I had no preconceived notion of what she was supposed to be like.

 

This is quirky, but I noticed it: Jessica uses the Firefox browser.  I use Firefox, too, but it is declining in popularity.  So I am glad Jessica uses it.

 

Could this be a case of product placement?  Doesn't seem like something the low-key Mozilla Corporation, which is owned by non-profit Mozilla Foundation, would do.

 

Maybe, maybe not. All of the Marvel characters are supposed to inhabit a universe that is supposed to be like 90% like our own (they even have the same political leaders, at least in the comics. But in the MCU they have a President named Ellis instead of  President Obama. So, it seems like there are slight changes being made within the MCU that is hinting that this isn't our universe (and yeah, it was never our universe but the idea in the comics was that pretty much everything is the same, right down to history, pop-cultural, and politics but with superheroes and super villains, etc...). That being said I would say no that it wasn't really a product placement, but more of a nod towards us. Although, I won't be surprised if it was a secret product placement (and it won't be a first with in the MCU). 

 

Also I love Firefox too!

Edited by TVSpectator.

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This is quirky, but I noticed it: Jessica uses the Firefox browser.  I use Firefox, too, but it is declining in popularity.  So I am glad Jessica uses it.

That's nothing. The first thing I noticed was that she uses the exact same make and model of laptop that I do. (Down to the gunmetal grey finish!)

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Maybe the use of Firefox was a deliberate anti-placement choice since it is open source?

 

I wonder how far product clearances go -- like, if a character wears jeans, does production need to get permission from Levi's? Restaurants people go to, cars they drive? I have noticed that a lot of TV/movie characters use iPhones these days.

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I think Tony is far and away a bigger asshole than Jessica. Jessica is damaged because she spent months being raped by Kilgrave and doing unsavory things culminating in the killing of Reva. That left her severely damaged, on top of the damage from her family being killed and her survivor's guilt that it was her fault, and an abusive adoptive mom. She takes every death Kilgrave causes personally.

Tony's best excuse for being as damaged as he is is an absentee father. As far as I can recall, he has shown no remorse for creating Ultron, who cost at least hundreds of lives and threatened global extinction.

I also think that Ant-Man and Starlord are in the same category as Jessica.

I don't really want to get into a who had a rougher life debate but I think Tony is a lot more damaged than that. And I think oddly enough a lot of his trauma mirrors Jessica's. His parents died violently in a car accident (like Jessica), which we now know was an assassination, as an adult he was held captive against his will for months by evil people and forced to do things he didn't want to do (like Jessica). Then when he escaped a father figure type of his tried to kill him and someone he cares about. And then on top of that there was the whole battling an alien invasion, where he set off a nuke in the void of space and then pretty nearly died. I would say any one of those things is enough to make someone a giant asshole. The problem is with the tone of the movies and RDJ's charm it comes across as much easier to take. 

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Simply put, Jessica is a misanthrope.  Tony is not.

 

Tony has a large circle of friends.  And he's not mean.  Neither of those apply to Jessica.  I'm rooting for her just as much as I would root for any protagonist and I find her attitude amusing but she's pretty rough-around-the-edges.  I'd say she's more like the Hulk than Tony Stark.  The Hulk wants to be left alone and has no real use for other people.  We know Jessica actually cares for her sister Trish but it's buried pretty deep.  If she can barely tolerate the person closest to her, I'd say she just isn't a "people person". 

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I think Tony is mean when he wants to be.  "Everything special about you came out of a bottle."

 

Traumatized is a good description.  She was damaged before by the loss of her family and survivor's guilt, and was all but crushed by what Kilgrave did to her.  It's when she gets desperate or feels like a victim again that she lashes out, and while unpleasant it's a legitimate reaction to what's been done to her.  She explicitly has PTSD.  Jessica was a bit of a jerk in the flashback scenes, but she was still ready to save people who needed it.  I think 'nice' just isn't where it's at for her.  She's sarcastic and brash, but she does what she can.  I think she's as decent a human being as she can manage, and that's not bad.

 

I love Firefox and I was delighted to see it used.  I hope it continues to grow as a browser and I don't know what I'd go with if it went away.  I snickered at the fact that Jessica was drinking "Wild Fowl Whiskey" instead of "Wild Turkey."

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On The Incomparable's Jessica Jones podcast https://www.theincomparable.com/teevee/

 

one of the participants objected that the lack of Apple products on the show was noticeable and struck her as unrealistic.  Considering Apple has 13% of the laptop market and 42% of the smartphone market in the US, I don't think a typical NYC private investigator probably uses a MacBook.  But on TV, everybody uses MacBooks.  Apple's marketing has been so successful that people now notice if glamorous TV superheroes use anything else.

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On The Incomparable's Jessica Jones podcast https://www.theincomparable.com/teevee/

 

one of the participants objected that the lack of Apple products on the show was noticeable and struck her as unrealistic.  Considering Apple has 13% of the laptop market and 42% of the smartphone market in the US, I don't think a typical NYC private investigator probably uses a MacBook.  But on TV, everybody uses MacBooks.  Apple's marketing has been so successful that people now notice if glamorous TV superheroes use anything else.

 

Since this takes place in the MCU maybe Jessica uses something from Stark, INC.?

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Apple's marketing has been so successful that people now notice if glamorous TV superheroes use anything else.

 

Well, I wouldn't call Jessica glamorous.

 

 

I love that Jessica was using a cheap-ass Acer laptop.  So real.

 

I remember noticing it at the beginning, approving and then it just kind of faded into the background. Where it should be. I didn't notice the browser.

 

But I do approve of her using Firefox.

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...one of the participants objected that the lack of Apple products on the show was noticeable and struck her as unrealistic.  

 

I didn't listen to it but damn, has she ever been to Hell's Kitchen? Or any poor neighborhood. 

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Considering Jessica had to beg Trish for money for a plane ticket, and was seeking an advance on her pay from Jeri Hogarth, I think it's completely realistic she had a shitty Acer laptop. She's the type who would pick up the cheap laptop for $300 on sale, because she has no money, plus given her temper (see the first ep when she smashes the client through the window), she probably breaks at least one laptop a year. 

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Considering Jessica had to beg Trish for money for a plane ticket, and was seeking an advance on her pay from Jeri Hogarth, I think it's completely realistic she had a shitty Acer laptop. She's the type who would pick up the cheap laptop for $300 on sale, because she has no money, plus given her temper (see the first ep when she smashes the client through the window), she probably breaks at least one laptop a year.

For the most part i agree with you, but i dont think the airline ticket means anything. She wanted a same day ticket from nyc to Hong Kong. Google tells me that will run about $1500 plus taxes and fees. I imagine most people wouldn't have that kind of cash on hand.

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Rewatching for I believe the fourth time, and I appreciate Krysten Ritter's performance so much more every time I watch. I really think she deserved an Emmy nomination. 

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