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Sharon Raydor: Surrounded By People With No Sense Of Occasion

Not a fan of the topic title. Sharon's got many wonderful qualities. At the very least, why not say, "Sharon Raydor - She Really Loves the Rules"?

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Not a fan of the topic title. Sharon's got many wonderful qualities. At the very least, why not say, "Sharon Raydor - She Really Loves the Rules"?

Yeah, I'm not feeling the title at all. @Dagny, could you explain what you mean? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting it. Thanks.

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Yeah, I'm not feeling the title at all. @Dagny, could you explain what you mean? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting it. Thanks.

Maybe @Dagny meant Sharon puts up with a lot of crap? But, yeah, it reads more like she's the disher out of crap.

As a BSG fan, I'd be happy with an "airlock" reference in the title, but it might be a little too obscure.

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We can edit the topic, no problem. Give us  your ideas.  Maraleia and I will pick the best and change it.

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Personally, I would change it to one of her quotes from Cutting Loose

 

I am just surrounded by people with no sense of occasion.

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I like that @GaT :

Sharon Raydor: Surrounded By People With No Sense Of Occasion

It's humorous enough that it should be able to satisfy both the Sharon fans and haters.

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^^^That's good.

 

By the way, the never gets tired was from Cutting Loose, modified from Rusty's line to her at the party.

Edited by sjohnson.
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One thing I really like about Sharon is her unabashedly feminine moments. I like that Sharon has those moments of coveting a designer bag, and her episode of horror at the wig on the frozen lady's head was delightful. (Also I could have sworn I saw this online but I can't find the evidence -- the characters each have or had official twitter accounts and "Rusty" teased "Sharon" about her shoe addiction, and that they keep coming home to more and more shoe packages bought online.)  For such a stoic character it should seem strange but I find it surprisingly organic.

 

Also, I suspect it was probably more the show-runners' plan than a sign of Sharon deliberately running things differently than Brenda, but I like to think Sharon's sort of more inclusive personality has a lot to do with the fact that the squad is on a first name basis now, even though they've been working together for a decade. (Even Provenza is mostly referred to as "Lieutenant" as opposed to his last name.)

Edited by PinkRibbons.
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I agree.

Wow. The first ever thread I started on TWoP was to help pick a good name for the Laura Roslyn thread.

Edited by CoderLady.
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Really, I just wanted a topic started. This was the only real quote that stood out to me when I Googled "Sharon Raydor quotes". Not a slam on her, I just thought it played into her understated ways. She deals with her deadbeat husband's ways and is very calm when Rusty has little outbursts.

 

It was this or "So say we all", but BSG quote in Major Crimes thread seemed a little out of topic.

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It was this or "So say we all", but BSG quote in Major Crimes thread seemed a little out of topic.

Yeah, otherwise I'd prefer something like, "Sharon Raydor: Make A Deal Or Get Airlocked." ;)

About Sharon: I seem to recall that in maybe the first MC episode that there was some dialogue about how Sharon was going to focus on plea deals instead of confessions like Brenda did. I believe this was because plea deals save the city money for a trial. Does anyone else recall that, and, if so, is that still happening?

Edited by shapeshifter.
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I remember that. It might be my imagination because that conversation set me up to expect it, but I think they do spend a little more time talking about deals with the DDA after catching the criminal of the week. The squad bitched initially but seem to have stopped objecting.

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Yeah, otherwise I'd prefer something like, "Sharon Raydor: Make A Deal Or Get Airlocked." ;)

About Sharon: I seem to recall that in maybe the first MC episode that there was some dialogue about how Sharon was going to focus on plea deals instead of confessions like Brenda did. I believe this was because plea deals save the city money for a trial. Does anyone else recall that, and, if so, is that still happening?

They have seemed to have dropped the plea bargin focus in the second season

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As I recall practically all of the cases end with a deal now, instead of a confession a la The Closer, whose "close" was the confession. 

When they messed up making a deal with Slider, they even tried to console themselves that the trial might give them another chance to identify "Alice." 

(From the publicity I suppose, except whoever burned her with cigarettes might want to let sleeping dogs lie.)

 

If I remember correctly, in real life, well over ninety percent of cases where there are arrests end in deals. This show was more concerned with realism than most, although they've trended towards lots of unrealistic action lately. 

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They have seemed to have dropped the plea bargin focus in the second season

 

Thankfully, because it makes the show so unsatisfying. I like how they just mention the deal as an aside now and it isn't a big focus of the show.

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Well I think the show has established that Sharon was a good mother who is close with her Rickey and probably her daughter. Certainly Rickey made it clear that he isn't staying away from Sharon because of her behavior, but because his life and job was in another city. Rickey flat out said she was a good mother. He was planning to move back to LA to "save" her from her "loneliness" and prevent her from making the "mistake" of adopting Rusty. She was warm and caring in her interactions with Rickey. The Squad all knew Rickey and had met him before. Since I can't see them caring to meet her kids before she became the head of Major Crimes, I think that means that Rickey has been to town (although off screen) enough to come to his mothers work place and get to know her coworkers so he has been home since Sharon took over. He talks to Rusty and presumably Sharon, on the phone often enough that Rusty could tell that Rickey was being distant and was upset about the adoption. That doesn't happen with only casual acquaintance.

 

I'm bringing this over from the episode thread.

 

She forgot that when she came up with her cockeyed plan to railroad Jack first, etc. Deep down she knew it wasn't just, she's going to do what she wants, and they'll like it because she says so. One thing that became perfectly clear is that Sharon didn't for a moment think of the adoption as about her and Rusty. Sure, she's legally entitled to treat that as her business. But it really was all about making Rusty the little brother, that she expects Ricky and Emily to be brother and sister, and like it.

I think this totally mischaracterizes what happened with Jack. She wanted to adopt Rusty. Because she is legally married to Jack, she has to have his signature on the adoption. They have lived apart for years. Jack uses her at his convenience for room and board. He abandoned his responsibilities to his own children, so it isn't like he is suddenly going to live his life any way other than he is. If he didn't do it for his own biological children, to whom he had a legal responsibility, then he won't suddenly be forced to do it for an adopted child who is a legal adult and to whom he has no responsibility, because Rusty is about to turn 18.

 

Sharon isn't forcing him out of the house he has lived in for 30 years. She's not throwing him out after a loving marriage. She's getting the divorce she has been entitled to for a long time, but until now has not had reason to get. She wants to adopt Rusty. Jack told her he was going to try and take part of her pension. She thinks she can avoid that, but she is willing to lose it if that is the only way she can adopt Rusty.

 

I will also note that Jack's response to Sharon wanting to adopt Rusty was to demand compensation for all the "bullshit" he would have to go through. He was trying to extort money from in order for her to adopt Rusty. If anyone was trying to railroad anyone, it was Jack trying to railroad Sharon into paying him. She had reached her limit. Her desire to provide a stable, secure place for Rusty trumps whatever reasons she had for not divorcing Jack long ago. I didn't see any railroading on her part. She offered him two alternatives. Sign the papers for adopting Rusty, or she's divorcing him and she will adopt Rusty anyway. Deciding your husband has gone too far and now you want a divorce happens. People do it all the time. They put up with things in a marriage until they don't. Rusty was Sharon's breaking point.

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I agree with the above on Jack except for two points. If she had invited Jack to a lunch and said "I think I need to formalize my relationship with Rusty and adopt. Are you willing to go along with that? I've got the papers ready to sign?" Jacks spouts about compensation, she says "Not a dime? Yes or no?" Jack says no, she says, " Well, I'll talk to him about it, and if I have to I'll do this without you. Please let me talk to them first." Formally nothing is different, but everything is different. 

 

The other point is that, bizarrely enough, Sharon didn't decide to divorce Jack until he talked to Rusty. I have no idea why she thought he was under orders not to talk to anyone. At the least, if she didn't want him talking to Rusty she shouldn't have brought him to where Rusty would be.

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The other point is that, bizarrely enough, Sharon didn't decide to divorce Jack until he talked to Rusty. I have no idea why she thought he was under orders not to talk to anyone. At the least, if she didn't want him talking to Rusty she shouldn't have brought him to where Rusty would be.

Jack didn't just talk to Rusty, he tried to bribe him with an internship at his law firm. He was trying to do an end run around Sharon.

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The other point is that, bizarrely enough, Sharon didn't decide to divorce Jack until he talked to Rusty. I have no idea why she thought he was under orders not to talk to anyone. At the least, if she didn't want him talking to Rusty she shouldn't have brought him to where Rusty would be.

 

Jack asked her if she had talked to the kids about adopting Rusty and she said very clearly that she wanted to handle things in a certain order. She had thought it out and wanted her ducks in a row. When Jack went to Rusty, he proved once and for all that he was NEVER going to respect Sharon's wishes.  He was actively working to derail how she wanted to handle it.  It was the final proof that Jack is a self-centered SOB who only cares about how things can benefit him. All Sharon wanted was to handle the situation in a way she was comfortable with and all Jack had to do was keep his mouth shut, not a huge thing to do. Instead he worked to hurt and upset her. Once your husband makes it perfectly clear that he has no respect for what you want and will go behind your back, which Sharon did NOT do, to hurt you, it's time to dump the guy.

Edited by Percysowner.
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Re:  Sharon's prolonged separation from Jack--I've had the impression since last season that the reason Sharon hadn't yet divorced Jack was due to Jack's chronic unemployment/underemployment.  She would have probably been required to pay him alimony if they ever had gotten divorced before now.  (It's kind of like Provenza not wanting to retire because he'd have to divide his pension among his four ex-wives.)  When Sharon showed the divorce papers to Jack, didn't she say something to the effect of "It took me [years(?)/ages(?)] to [untangle(?)/separate(?)] my finances from yours"?  (Can't remember the exact wording.)

 

Anyway, Jack pumping Rusty for information about whether or not Sharon was dating anybody seemed kind of typical for Jack.  We haven't been shown one way or the other if Jack still hopes for a reconciliation with Sharon, even though for her it's obviously over.  The impression I came away with is that Sharon wants to make sure that Jack will not have any say in any decisions that will affect Rusty in future.

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From the Rusty thread 

 

^^^Sharon Raydor is supposed to be early fifties, with emphasis on the early.

Anybody knows where that comes from? All I know is that she was a LAPD captain 5 years ago. And Lt Provenza's career suggest there is no mandatory retirement in the LAPD like Fritz faced with the FBI if he reached his 60s

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My local station just reran the "Closer" episode that introduced the character of Sharon Raydor. I remember at the time most people didn't like her because of her conflict in that episode with Brenda Leigh. ("Red Tape"; Sgt Gabriel shot a kid during a robbery and Sharon was investigating for Internal Affairs.)

But I liked her; she was tough and she could stand toe to toe and nose to nose with Brenda.

I miss "tough Sharon".

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I caught the end of that episode. I never managed to like Brenda throughout The Closer though I always found her entertaining. In "Red Tape" I thought she was extra snotty and bitchy to Sharon who was just trying to do her job. That predisposed me to like Sharon, and when I heard later on that she was going to be the focus of the spin-off, that basically sealed the deal for me.

Edited by CoderLady.
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My local station just reran the "Closer" episode that introduced the character of Sharon Raydor. I remember at the time most people didn't like her because of her conflict in that episode with Brenda Leigh. ("Red Tape"; Sgt Gabriel shot a kid during a robbery and Sharon was investigating for Internal Affairs.)But I liked her; she was tough and she could stand toe to toe and nose to nose with Brenda.I miss "tough Sharon".

"Red Tape" was season 5 episode 3 of The Closer. I just saw a rerun of season 7 episode 8, "Death Warrant," which seems to be the real turning point for integrating Sharon into the team, beginning with her taking down a hit man with a bean bag gun. It makes me smile just to think about it. Great direction and scene blocking.
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I just watched that episode as well - loved Sharon deliberately taking aim and hitting the guy right between the eyes. Everyone seemed to look at her in a new light, at the scene and later at the police station.

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I just watched that episode as well - loved Sharon deliberately taking aim and hitting the guy right between the eyes. Everyone seemed to look at her in a new light, at the scene and later at the police station.

While still holding the beanbag gun, did you catch her line (in response to something like, "Right between the eyes!") she replied, "It was a lucky shot."

I wanted her to add that she was aiming for his torso, but it was probably not necessary and wouldn't have fit with her restrained personality.

Plus, if the guy would've run into the crowd (which he would have done in real life) he would've gotten away, so that made it a lucky shot regardless of where she was aiming.

Anyway, it was good to be able to finally say to myself: Ah-ha! That's the moment when the tide turned in her favor!

Plus, in that episode, while watching Brenda more or less threaten (while being videoed in the interview room) to do to another criminal what she did to Turell Baylor, Gavin, Brenda's lawyer, says in exasperation, "That woman!" which had previously been used exclusively by Brenda and the team in reference to Sharon.

Also in that episode, Brenda asks Pope if he has "any idea what it's like trying to do your job when you're always having to" make allowances for difficult people? He then looks directly at Brenda and replies that yes, he does. The look on her face seems to indicate a bit of self awareness and perhaps a realization that she and Raydor are not so different.

I don't know if they planned from the beginning of the introduction of Raydor to lead up to this episode, but it was well done. Likely they did plan it, because it is the same strategy that was used to introduce Brenda, except that with Sharon they stretched out her villainy over a season and half.

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I never thought about it that way before, that they initially introduced Sharon's character to cultivate her for the next lead, but it makes sense.  They probably knew that Brenda had an expiration date and wanted to develop a character to continue the series, but she had to be very different from Brenda.

 

I really like that they take the time to develop each character, both leads and the rest of the cast, and their interactions, and they do it by "show, not tell".  Each character is so well crafted, step by step.  The writers - and actors - do a brilliant job of this. 

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since the name of this topic has Sharon in it i feel like here would be a good place to say how much I ADORE Sharon both as a person and as a character. My sister likes to make fun of how she talks and, while it is a bit different, I feel like it helps develop her character. As soon as she came on screen in The Closer I knew that I was going to love her character, and her development in Major Crimes just made me love her more. Seeing the contrast between her professional life and her home life (where she's like a wise but overbearing maternal figure) adds so much more depth to the character than we ever could have had in context in The Closer. There's no real reason why I'm posting this right now other than a sudden wave of love for Sharon. God I love her.

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I love Sharon too.  She was such a great contrast to Brenda, who was always over-emoting.  Sharon talks in a calm, measured tone and doesn't flip out over everything.  She can be a bulldozer too, but a quiet, by the book one.

 

I always liked the Rusty storyline because it gave us a chance to see this other side of Sharon, the warmer, maternal care-taker.

 

Perhaps the writers are trying to show us still another side of her with a Flynn relationship, but I wish they wouldn't.  Give her someone else, perhaps, but not one of the squad.

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One of the great things about Sharon is that she is a wonderful example that you don't have to be the "rebel" or rule breaker to get shit done. I'm more impressed with her than Brenda because Raydor manages to play by the rules and still win, rather than winning by breaking the rules. IDK, I find it very refreshing in this TV landscape where rebel anti-heroes rule.

 

She's also a great example of still waters running deep because I would find her quiet stillness far more scary than all of Brenda's hysterics. Personal preference, I know many love the rebels and they can be fun, but there are a million cops/doctors/PIs on TV with that personality type. It's nice to see a calm, collected, law abiding one once in a while. And MM brings it in spades. Her very thoughtful line delivery is perfect, like Raydor is choosing every word with great deliberation. It works for the character.

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I would find her quiet stillness far more scary than all of Brenda's hysterics

 

 

Yes, that scene where she visits Rusty's mother in jail is a perfect example of this.  Quiet, contained fury that spoke calmly and laid down the law to her.

 

This of course follows the scene where she is in the electronics room watching the tape of Rusty's mother asking him to prostitute himself for her bail money.  Sharon doesn't say anything, but the expression on her face was so powerful.  Awesome.

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With regards to them finding Sharon a relationship outside of the squad, I doubt we'd ever see any of it or get any kind of storyline about it in that case, though. Her 'home life' storyline is entirely focused on Rusty -she doesn't really get many storylines separately from that - so in order for her to have a relationship of some kind (which I do really want to see - way too few romances for older characters on screen), it needs to be someone she works closely with on a daily basis, so it will fit into an episode.

I know it worked with Brenda and Fritz, but Fritz was Brenda's 'home life' person. My guess is that in terms of story space, this is the only way it would work for Sharon.

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i feel like they're just throwing in the whole sharon/andy thing in to try to appeal to more people but there's like... no basis for it in the show. Andy was kind of a jerk in the closer, no offense to anyone who likes him, but I feel like she deserves better. Plus, she's his boss, that's against the rules!!! Sharon bends the rules (likes tie them into knots with all the loopholes she finds), but she doesn't break them!!

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I don't think Flynn's been that much of a jerk since season 1 on The Closer, and that was over a decade ago. What I find intriguing about a relationship between him and Sharon is that yes, maybe she's attracted to addicts. But whereas Jack seems to have spent most of their relationship on and off the wagon, constantly manipulating and changing his tune and so on, at least Flynn is someone she knows who is rock-solid committed to staying sober and has the chips to prove it. If I were her I'd be more relieved to know I was dealing with someone who knew their own issues and worked on them rather than someone with seemingly no issues at all who could drop the other shoe any second (hell, Fritz kind of falls into this category, I mean how long did he wait before he told Brenda he was an alcoholic? Sharon would never have put up with that after her experiences with Jack.)

 

I like the relationship in general because I've known several older (and much older at that) couples who remarried late in life and were very happy. I see the same kind of easy, comfortable chemistry between the two. It's not red-hot teenage fire, and I'm okay with that.

 

To me, Sharon seems like someone who does best in life when she's not alone. We saw her being cold and slightly bitchy on The Closer at first, and my theory is that it was right after her kids moved out. I've been rewatching season one of Major Crimes and it's amazing how easily she comes to adore Rusty, and he was an absolute little shit most of the time. (It's actually amazing how far he's come, and kudos to the actor because even from his first appearance in The Closer you can see how he became so incredibly distrustful of parental figures and the trauma he couldn't hold off from being abandoned in particular.) One of my favorite scenes in the series is after Rusty comes home from his last visit with his father and Sharon sees his face after he's been beat up. Such a stoic, righteously dangerous character and for about a second you can see her fall apart completely in horror, she was that attached to Rusty by then. Rusty keeps saying that he hasn't done anything for Sharon but she herself seems to just love having him around. It's not a terrible thing to need other people around you as family -- it's a fairly human instinct. And now that her older kids are out of the house and Rusty will probably set out within a few years (although I strongly suspect that unlike Sharon's other children, he will stay in the city to be near her), I think it's nice that she might have a companion. She seems to find having family very fulfilling, and the closer they are the better.

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since we're talking about andy too, i just have to ask, does ANYONE ELSE know what the heck was up with his toothpick in the beginning of the closer?? why did he have it?? and when did it even disappear??

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I know we were talking about chemistry and the Sharon/Andy thing, not sure which topic it was but I thought I would bring it here...

 

I do not see chemistry between them at all.  Chemistry is something that has to be shown through the attitudes of the characters.  I have seen shows where we are told that there is chemistry but it isn't shown.  It is something that has to be developed through looks, words, actions, attitudes.  What I see here is Andy maybe having some feelings for Sharon, but I do not see anything in return from her other than friendship.  Sexual tension between them?  Don't see any.  The writers are drawing this out - they have had chances to resolve it (the closed door discussion, the family "date") but even in the absence of this chemistry they are still letting it linger.

 

I have been watching the BBC Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries series, and it is a perfect example of building chemistry between Miss Fisher and the detective.  If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend the series.  (It is about a woman in the 1920's who decides to be a "lady detective" and becomes involved in all sorts of mysteries, much to the exasperation and fascination of the police detective.) Having seen this, I suppose I am noticing even more the lack of chemistry in the Andy/Sharon thing.  It is quite a contrast.

 

Anyway, if they do go ahead with the relationship, Andy has already devolved into goofy, I just hope Sharon doesn't lose some brain cells as well if she gets together with a man. 

 

But I really hope they don't...

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I've seen chemistry between Sharon and Andy and am looking forward to whatever we get to see between them.

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Sharon as the focus has a couple of problems. First, what was interesting about Sharon has been retconned. She was married but separated and wouldn't divorce, and led an apparently celibate life. We saw Brenda's sex life, if not sex scenes. She had children but we never saw them. We saw Brenda's family when they came to town, complete with a whole arc devoted to her niece. Of late, we discover that Sharon just never got around to divorcing Jack! And we find that the kids really have been in normal contact, visiting regularly, it was just off screen! Excuse me, but Sharon Raydor as an extremely rigid by the book person who ends up lonely because of it may not be a fun character but she would at least be interesting. Sharon Raydor dating Andy Flynn? Not so much. It's possible that Mary McDonnell doesn't want to play Sharon Raydor as originally written, but want's to play her as pretty much perfect. Not very believable and not very interesting, where ever this is coming from. Perfect people always make the right decision. Where's the dramatic tension in a foregone conclusion?

 

Second, all dramas benefit from characters who have a different point of view, who aren't just opponents. If you're only concern is who wins, why watch dramas? Every horse race and boxing match and football game has opponents. On Major Crimes, there's only one character with a different viewpoint, Rusty. If anything, his different viewpoint is being smothered, sacrificing the character's potential for seeing the police in anything but their own self-image. 

 

It's impossible to take complaints about Rusty being shoehorned in seriously after Jon Tenney's repeated appearances on screen. The dude has taken an entire episode for his pilot and people don't notice? He was shoehorned into the big finale of the Philip Stroh case, Special Master, seriously damaging the episodes.

From Rusty's thread

 

I never saw the show as the Captain Raydor story. Even with the network pushing Sharon in their last ad campaign. It was the Chief Johnson's story  on The Closer because of her outsider status as she had to show the LAPD how its done story. They even gone as far as drop the first season focus that the Captain will cut a deal to hand to the Deputy DA. So now we have a squad with a commander, just no lead detective team with help from the others in the squad as most TV detective shows are run.

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Obviously I think Sharon as the lead in the way Brenda was doesn't work that well because, essentially, Sharon is too perfect for that kind of show. When everything is said and done, Brenda was forced out for good reason. Even if you ultimately come down on her side, you should understand there was a real question about whether she was right. There's none of that with Sharon, nor will there ever be apparently. 

 

We can view Major Crimes as a crime show, not a personal drama about the lives of cops, not even the chief cop. Each case illuminates something about the criminals or the victims or the witness and the regulars' reactions express some of our feelings, appropriate to the character in each case. Most cop shows are not written with enough insight to be watched like this, I think. At its best, The Closer could. Major Crimes hits that mark much less often, I think,

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I was thinking about Sharon's wedding...I would love to see her walk down the aisle by herself, and not be "given away" by a man.

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I certainly hope so!

But, with the way things have been going, I will not be remotely surprised to see Ricky and/or Rusty walking her down the aisle.  Or maybe Duff will decide her parents are still alive (he once said in response to a fan question since we heard about them in The Closer but not in Major Crimes that he hasn't decided) and her dad will do it.  But I doubt they'd want to cast her dad/parents.  Duff said in that same answer that he's decided Sharon has siblings, but I bet we won't see them, either, for the same reason.

No matter who is and isn't there, I hope she walks down the aisle alone.  But they seem to be going pretty traditional with this wedding, so we'll see. 

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