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  1. I took the bait when I saw the WestAllen stills. I'm happily surprised because I didn't think we'd get a scene with Iris and the real Barry.
  2. The Flash in the Media

    I wasn't expecting duo or trio pics but it's ridiculous that they didn't take a cast pic on the red carpet. The only group pic they took was with Grant and the higher-ups. The pic with the cake looks bad whichever way you look at it. There's no balance. It's either the fake OTF on one side while the others stay on the other side. Or all the black people on one side with Hartley as the only white man. Or all the women on one side while DP stays with the guys. Or all the original, pilot cast members on one side with Candice being the only original cast member left with the newbies. Even without all that, it looks crammed. It would have been better if they stood in a semi-circle around the cake but because of the huge lightning bolt they couldn't do it. And what's sad is that this is the only cast pic we have. They managed to get photo booth pics with the SOs and nothing with the cast. Meh.
  3. I find this pretty stupid to be honest. The Laurel one I can understand but he doesn't have to kiss a different woman in every crossover. But I'm selfish so as long as it's not Barry doing it... I really hate the premise of this crossover. I hate it so much.
  4. Caitlin Snow

    It doesn't make sense but that's water under the bridge. Killer Frost has been a part of Team Flash since 4x05. It's been one year. The two bonded off screen in s4. I agree with you that it's terrible writing but I'm not going to constantly overthink it. It's old news. Nothing about Caitlin post Killer Frost makes sense and at this point it is what it is. Caitlin had wanted Killer Frost back since midway through s4. The cold gun is not going to solve anything because it's not the powers she misses, it's the split personality she bonded with last year. Killer Frost could be the most useless team member ever and she'd still want her back because she's her pen pal. From Caitlin's perspective Killer Frost is not just the powers, she's her off screen friend. That's why I didn't agree with the Cisco comparison.
  5. S05.E05: All Doll'd Up

    It's because certain viewers like Caitlin more than Iris. I can't think of anything else that would justify calling Iris an indefensible monster while turning a blind eye to Caitlin and Frost's atrocious actions. The writers aren't helping but if viewers can look past the writing to crucify Iris then they can do the same for Caitlin. The writers are holding Iris accountable by having Nora get back at her but they aren't portraying her as an indefensible monster either. That's why she gets Barry in her corner, defending her. If Barry's or any other character's opinion is not enough to sway viewers then the same standards should be applied to Caitlin. If they aren't, it means that there's bias in play. It's possible some time passes between this episode and the next and again between the next and the Thanksgiving one. Before this episode they released a still of Barry at the West house with Cecile. Maybe he was there to talk to Nora but the scene was cut from the final product.
  6. S05.E05: All Doll'd Up

    Does Caitlin even want Killer Frost back anymore? She was sad that she was still missing in the premiere but the rest of the episodes she's been focusing on her dad. I may have missed something though. I tend to zone out during her plot. Regardless, I think Caitlin views Killer Frost as some sort of friend, as a part of herself, not as the reason she can prove her worth to Team Flash. I didn't compare her situation to Cisco's. I loved the KillerVibe moments. Cisco got some nice POV and proved what a great asset he is to Team Flash by the end of the episode, with or without powers. I'm liking Ralph this season. His scene with Iris was hilarious. Sherloque was so annoying though. His accent is TERRIBLE and he even broke the estrapolator! This was my favorite episode of the season for Iris and WestAllen. Barry trying to cheer her up and supporting her passion for journalism was adorable. I'm glad that both him and Cecile defended Iris to Nora. It was nice to hear stories about Barry and Iris' childhood even though I was bothered by the retcons. Another thing that bugged me was the characters avoiding the issue of Barry's disapperance. I'm not sure what's happening in Nora's future, if it's the same future Legends of Tomorrow has explored or not, but one thing is certain, this Iris has Barry by her side and future Iris does not. Telling her to just make different choices and raise Nora differently is simplistic IMO. I loved the creepy meta! It seems they're spending less and less time in STAR Labs and that makes me happy. I don't care that they're recycling some sets. I'd take it over spending all the screen time on STAR Labs scenes.
  7. The Flash in the Media

    I love how Barry and Iris are front and center and bigger than the rest.
  8. I think it does. Oliver has Barry's super speed and Barry has Oliver's strength, even though there's nothing supernatural about Oliver's abilities.
  9. It's not even our Iris. It must be a dream world version of Iris. Fake, lol. I'm 99.9% sure they hate her. They don't seem to be very fond of Barry either but since he's one of the leads they have to feature him. He doesn't tend to get the best material during crossovers IMO. Is Oliver
  10. I don't want Barry with anyone that isn't Iris. Candice's Iris gets enough hate as it is and people fabricating "chemistry" everytime Barry stands next to a white person. IMO these individuals don't have to be catered to. Green Arrow can stay single, LOL. I liked Iris in the promo but I'm still not interested in the crossover and I'm having trouble understanding and accepting the set-up. I think Gotham City, Clark and Lois are the things that intrigue me the most only because NOTHING of what I'm hearing about the regular characters has me excited.
  11. S05.E04: News Flash

    Caitlin and KF get bad writing but this going out of their way to absolve her of every mistake isn't par of the course for The Flash. That is limited to Caitlin. I never accepted the retcon that Caitlin and KF were two separate people but what's even more absurd and telling is that it coincided with Killer Frost's actual redemption. They don't want Caitlin to be a villain but they apparently don't want Killer Frost to be a villain either as it was shown in the Girls Night Out episode where Iris ( ha ) invalidated Cecile's feelings and pretended the accomplice in HR's murder was the reason they were able to defeat Savitar. They want to have Killer Frost as the muscle of a metahuman trafficker but they also want "innocent" Caitlin to be so desperate to get her back that she's willing to do another job for Amunet and all she gets for it is a slap on the wrist, if even. It was also Caitlin who held to a piece of the Philosopher's Stone knowing at the time that the stone had to be thrown into the SF to prevent Savitar's escape. She didn't care. She didn't care that Iris would die because all she was concerned with was getting rid of a split personality that she now misses very much, lol. And no-one, in show, thinks that Caitlin deserves to be held accountable for it? There's wanting your cake and eat it too and then there's what they've been doing with Caitlin for the last two seasons. That's not par of the course, that's the white feminist writing giving Caitlin special treatment when everyone else gets called out for lesser screw ups. For this reason alone I get where @phoenics is coming from. The writers are giving the audience reasons to hate both Iris and Nora, who just happen to be WOC, while manipulating them into believing that Caitlin/KF is never at fault for anything. They had Barry support Iris but they also had Nora challenge her. Same with Nora. She got plenty of POV in this episode, Cecile and Caitlin sneering in the background when she shaded Iris and what it's IMO a sympathetic edit but they also had Barry dismiss her feelings. If characters are at odds with each other than the writers are giving those characters haters someone, in-show, to validate their negative feelings. That doesn't happen with Caitlin. She's always someone's victim. So if I dislike Caitlin I don't get ONE Flash character that "agrees" with me, lol. And that is despite Caitlin/KF doing evil and problematic things to the other members of Team Flash. I actually do like that Iris and Nora are getting this story but when you factor in that both Iris and Nora are WOC who get a controversial storyline while the white woman never gets antagonized by anyone I can see why some are weary. It's because this kind of story being given to characters that are minorities exacerbates the racism/homophobia that is present in the fandom, especially when the straight white woman is treated with kids' gloves. Of course, it's also a double edged sword because while Iris and Nora get to play with better material Killer Frost remains a joke. It's true that on this board Nora is getting way more hate than Iris ( I didn't see any hate thrown at the actress though. If anything, I see more hate directed at DP and, in one case, CP ) but I personally don't see that as a positive. I do like Nora ( she's WestAllen's daughter! ), I do see where she's coming from and it makes me a bit sad that as of now, people are either hating Iris or her child with Barry. I guess that's what happens when you're in fandom, take the good with the bad. The only reason this scene didn't work for me is because of the context. Nora may be Iris' daughter but she's basically a stranger to Iris and the others in this timeline. This scene would have worked better if they were all friends and Iris was on the joke and used to this kind of shade. But given the situation, Caitlin and Cecile just end up looking petty. I didn't give it much thought though. You'd think! Barry is not a part of that story so no, they are not engaged. Looking for reasons to hate his wife has them more interested. But I do agree that antis will hate no matter what. There isn't one episode of this show they haven't found something to attack Iris over.
  12. Nora West-Allen: XS

    If Iris were dead in the future it would show in Nora's behavior towards her. That doesn't mean that Nora can't be mad and grieve at the same time but nothing in her interactions with Iris and the way she talks about the woman who raised her signals that Iris is not around anymore. Since the beginning I've been getting the vibe that something had to have happened recently to put a strain on their relationship and make Nora feel hurt and angry. I never got the impression that Nora and Iris had been on the rocks for years, nor did I ever think Nora was a recent orphan.
  13. Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

    There has to come a time when Caitlin's story becomes the A plot but what makes it blatant fan service is not the fact that Barry is involved for one episode, it's that it could have been Barry, Caitlin and any other other character finding info about Thomas Snow but they decided it had to be Barry, Caitlin and Cisco because fans with dubious motives have been campaigning for OTF. Imagine if it were Barry, Caitlin and Iris getting the A plot for this episode, lol. The writers don't think Caitlin has to be redeemed. Cisco is there to support her story so I wouldn't hold my breath about him getting more to do. I'm more interested in the B plot. I always like it when Iris gets paired with different characters. Hopefully she'll make me like Sherloque, lol.
  14. S05.E04: News Flash

    And one day after his dad was murdered, right in front of him, by another evil speedster, in the same spot his mom was killed. Barry has been catching hate for Flashpoint for years and while I obviously think it was the wrong thing to do he's IMO deserving of sympathy because of the mental state he was in when it happened. I don't think Nora is the worst and while her emotions and feelings are valid, and the origins of her own Flashpoint are sympathetic, I refuse to put her mistakes on Iris or on anyone else. Just like Barry, the way Nora reacts to bad news is on her, not on Iris. Considering how impulsive and gullible she is there's no guarantee that if Iris had told her sooner she'd be a better speedster. She could have been exactly like Barry, years into her training and still making the same mistakes a rookie would make. Iris agreed that her future self must have had a good reason to keep Nora's powers a secret only after she had to nerf her in the present. She said it herself, before witnessing what happened with Spin Iris couldn't fathom a situation where she would do that to Nora but what they experienced as a family that day put things into perspective. It's possible that what happened made her think it would be best, easier, if Nora didn't have powers at all. That doesn't mean that future Iris is right but that's how I believe present Iris rationalized it in that moment. She could finally see why it would be possible for her future self to make the choice she made. That IMO doesn't make her arrogant or self-righteous. I don't know if Nora is lying or if the things that don't add up are a result of sloppy writing. There's a disconnect here. I'm supposed to believe that Nora is so hurt by her mother's betrayal and that Iris is the reason she didn't fit in and couldn't be a hero like her dad but at the same time she uses the nickname her mother gave her as her superhero codename and Iris' jacket as a part of her speedster outfit.
  15. Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

    I don't think it's Kristen that panders to the OTF people. I believe that when writers are assigned an episode they already have an idea of what the A and B plot are and which characters are a part of them. It's possible that the showrunners wanted the A plot for this episode to be about Caitlin and her father and for Barry and Cisco to be a part of it while Iris and Sherloque get the B plot. That's a rough outline. Kristen and Joshua can add specific moments but I don't believe they are to blame for the plot. I wonder how they'll justify Barry's presence in this storyline when up until now he's had other things going on. It's obvious fan service. I just want to see if they can have it make sense and mask the fact that it's blatant fan service, lol. They didn't do a good job in 4x22 considering that Caitlin had no business training in Flashtime and Iris would have been a much better candidate. She was the one who could actually last more than five seconds in Flashtime, not Caitlin.