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Starry

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  1. This fandom loves their false equivalences. I'm not saying Iris/Candice fans are perfect angels but the vitriol thrown at Candice doesn't compare to what Danielle (or anyone else in the cast) gets. People create petitions to have Candice fired or replaced. They also fabricate entire stories to paint her as the bad guy. It's on another level. It's true.
  2. Relationships: Speed Dating

    I was positive they kissed in that scene but you're right, it was cut!
  3. Iris West

    So much truth in that post. I'm pleased and surprised that someone had the guts to call out the fanboys on SuperHeroHype. I don't know if things have changed but when I used to read that forum some individuals didn't even bother to hide their misogyny and racism. Iris was bashed for hacking (I assume she just guessed Joe's password, lol) into the CCPD archives back in the day. For some people she wasn't supposed to be able to do that.
  4. Relationships: Speed Dating

    I completely agree with your post, except I think this was intentional. The trip to Earth-2 didn't give Barry any hope he and Iris could get together on Earth-1. Earth-2 Harry tells him that wasn't their life and he takes that to heart. That's why he doesn't pick up on Iris flirting with him and is in disbelief when she pours her heart to him in 2x20. I actually loved Iris confession scene. The acting and chemistry sold the moment despite the lackluster dialogue. About the gag reel, the writers are indeed wasting the actors' natural chemistry. This particular writing team is especially bad at writing fluff. They either go for emotional, angsty moments (Grant and Candice really shine in those IMO) or they put the characters in stressful, awkward situations and play it for laughs. I'll take the deleted interrupted honeymoon scene as an example. Instead of having Ralph irritate the hell out of Barry and Iris, they could have written a brief scene of Barry and Iris flirting and having fun on their honeymoon and only then they get interrupten by an emergency. Instead we got a "funny" moment (you know you're supposed to see that scene as funny because of the music cues) while the characters themselves don't have fun, they're just mad. I miss the lighthearted banter. This is an area where the s1 writers did so so much better. Apart from scripts being edited to downplay affection, they also tend to film and then cut Westallen scenes. In s4 they've cut the interrupted honeymoon, a scene of Iris making breakfast for Barry and burning toasts (I really wanted to see that one!), a kiss in 4x18 and another scene in 4x20. It's especially irritating when you know those moments exist but don't get to see them.
  5. Caitlin Snow

    I'm not worried about SB but this show has soured me on Iris/Caitlin. This goes beyond AJK because Caitlin was still rude and dismissive towards Iris in the final episodes. The Snowbarrisco team-up, that was written in the post-AJK era, was also obvious fan service. When you have hours until the Enlightenment you don't waste time training people who can't last in Flashtime. You recruit the person you already know doesn't get tired in Flashtime. Iris would have been a much better candidate than Caitlin for this reason alone. But they wanted a Snowbarrisco episode so who cares about logic?
  6. Relationships: Speed Dating

    I don't care about what Iris haters think. They are welcome to get comfortable on their high horse and rage. The fandom is full of hypocrites. When Iris kissed Barry in a life-and-death situation she was labeled a cheater. When Caitlin kissed the shapeshifter back, four episodes before getting married to Ronnie, it was a hint at her feelings for Barry. There's no pleasing them because they have double standards. And no Iris/Barry/Patty love triangle suddenly meant that Iris was giving in to destiny in the back half of s2. Iris didn't have to interfere but they should have never forgotten about the complicated relationship Westallen had in season 1B to conveniently put them back in the "just friends" box. I agree only in part because Caitlin getting cold powers does not compare to Iris losing her life. I was actually irritated when in 3x22 Barry sent Cisco to Frost to stop her from making a big mistake. That wasn't the time and Cisco could have been useful in the final fight against Savitar.
  7. Relationships: Speed Dating

    I'm not mad they didn't set up Caitlin as Iris' rival but I will always be bitter that role was given to Linda and not to Patty. Linda should have been introduced as Iris' friend, CCPN colleague and sounding board. Patty is the one who's actually threatened by Iris in the comics. There was also no natural reason for Patty to be Iris' friend. A rivalry between them would have made more sense. I enjoyed the few friendship moments we got in s2 but I wish I didn't have to suddenly pretend the narrative used to pit Iris and Linda against each other.
  8. Caitlin Snow

    The director and editor didn't prioritize their scenes. There doesn't have to be a deeper in-show reason. The actual canon of the show doesn't support a rivalry between Caitlin and Iris. So Caitlin not hugging Iris (or not being shown to hug Iris) means that she has a problem with Westallen but she can hug Felicity? Even though according to your interpretation she's bothered by Felicity too? The last time Felicity was in town it was because of Barry so I don't get why Caitlin assuming that she's in CC for Barry means that she's threatened. Look, there are more hints about Caitlin being jealous of the women Cisco dated. She was MAD when she found out he kissed Lisa Snart, lol. One season later, she was still snotty towards Lisa. The speculation that Caitlin was attracted to Barry may be supported by their ship-teasing moments, rare as they may have been. I don't see anything supporting the speculation that Caitlin was jealous of Iris because of Barry. If the writers were planting seeds of a Caitlin/Iris rivalry, they'd be way more obvious. Distance doesn't necessarily mean rivalry. To me it just means that the show didn't care about a Caitlin/Iris friendship until s4. And the bachelorette party episode was written that way because Caitlin is the personification of white privilege. They couldn't acknowledge her bad deeds so they came up with that disgusting dialogue about Caitlin not confiding in Iris "because they were just work friends". No way white Caitlin should apologize for what she did to black Iris... I think one could also make the argument that Caitlin has never tried to bond with Iris outside of the occasional episode because she is kind of a snob (her treatment of Jax in 2x04 supports that). Felicity is a woman in STEM so maybe she'd vibe better with her for that reason. I always assumed that what she said to Felicity, the part about being happy to have another woman to talk to, was in reference to having another woman in STAR Labs, one she could discuss the superhero business with. I don't see the subtle hints as hints at all. And the in your face moments were too few and far in between to be a part of a larger narrative. They shouldn't have been there and exacerbated the fandom wars but mean nothing once you look at the bigger picture. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
  9. Caitlin Snow

    She was trying to move on after Ronnie. Cisco accused her of having no life and his words did sting. She went to a bar not to Barry's house. One could make the argument that she dressed that way to maybe find someone new to flirt with, exchange numbers with, etc. at the bar. Your guess, not the narrative, is that she got drunk and put on a nice dress for Barry. She didn't make a move on him the entire time. Yes, she did say that Barry deserved to take a look for being a hero (gross!) but that was after she encouraged him to call Linda. No, Caitlin didn't have to do that because Barry didn't mention Linda to her at all. She was the one who brought her up. Caitlin didn't have to play it cool. She could have had the reaction Iris had. Iris tried and failed to play it cool. Caitlin was just cool, lol. And "the episode was about Ronnie" is not a good "excuse" because for the Caitlin wants Barry but he's oblivious theory to have legs the writers can't showcase her "feelings" one episode and then forget about them for multiple episodes in a row. It has to happen on a consistent basis. They had an entire jealousy arc for Iris when Linda showed up. Was that the shapeshifter episode? Because that's the only episode I remember with Barry taking Caitlin's hand. It was also the same episode that showed Caitlin being uncomfortable and having a negative reaction to Barry's touch after the kiss with Bates. Killer Frost is just a mess. I don't know why she hated Barry but she did hate him. She tried to hurt him. She stabbed him. You say she should be grateful but she wasn't. Savitar is an evil clone who wanted Barry to suffer. That's why she would work with him (and because he promised her something but we never found out what it was...). You decided that she wanted to keep Iris away from the man she wanted but the show didn't confirm that. Yes, if Barry didn't reciprocate Caitlin's affection there was nothing she could do at that point. Except she was presented as genuinely happy for Barry and Iris. There was no sadness, regret, wistfulness, nothing. You are comparing her to Barry but how can one not notice how differently Barry acted when Iris moved in with Eddie? When Eddie wanted to propose? It's night and day. Barry stopped interfering but you just knew that he was unhappy. The Caitlin/Iris hug at the housewarming was cut but if you look closely you see them moving towards each other before it cuts to Iris and Cisco. They did hug. Look, I completely agree that the show wanted the audience to see the Snowbarry potential. I just disagree that, in retrospect, it was anything deeper than a tease (and biased/unsure showrunners trying to immediately present an alternative to their interracial OTP). I don't believe that there's a plan, a grand design and that we're meant to take as canon that Caitlin has carried a torch all this time. They teased the ship in s1 through dialogue and directing choices but how am I supposed to take it seriously if they didn't build on it? After 1x19, there's nothing in canon that supports Caitlin's attraction to Barry. And said attraction didn't show up between 1x12 and 1x19 either. Long periods of time without a hint, then a small hint in ONE episode does not a story make. By the way, there are Snowbarry fans that use this Caitlin has been in love with Barry and he didn't notice theory to trash Barry and Iris. Barry is so obsessed with Iris that he didn't notice sweet, nerdy Caitlin pining for him. And he's trash for that. Iris is the bitch who talked to Caitlin about her love for Barry and asked her to be her MOH. She's so selfish because she disregarded Caitlin's (non-existent) love for her man.
  10. I think the Brainy speculation has to do with their comic history. There's nothing in the show that suggests they are going to become an item. Unless they change showrunners, they are not going back to Karolsen. The current ones don't feel the couple and seem committed to James + Lena. They were more polarizing than universally hated.
  11. Caitlin Snow

    I think comparing Barry's feelings for Iris to Caitlin's feelings for Barry is a stretch. Barry had loved Iris for years. She had been oblivious to his love for years. I too wouldn't call what Caitlin felt for Barry "love". I wouldn't even say she had "feelings". At most, she was attracted to him, which is why I don't believe the show was trying to say that Barry was as oblivious as Iris to someone's affection. Yes, they gave Caitlin those reaction shots in 1x12 but they also had her push Barry on Linda. She wouldn't have done that if we were meant to believe Barry was the person she was crazy about. She also didn't display any signs of jealousy towards Linda in the following episode. She and Cisco were giving Barry sex tips like a couple of "bros", lol. I believe those long reaction shots were nothing more than the director's way to make the audience believe that there was "chemistry" and "potential" there. Caitlin was never jealous of Iris either. I'm a huge Westallen fan but Caitlin telling Barry to not mess with Iris and Eddie's relationship was good advice. I am not mad that he didn't listen but she wasn't wrong. Barry exploiting Iris' attraction to the Flash was sketchy. Caitlin was actually very supportive when Barry told her he had confessed his love to Iris. She praised his honesty. She was the one who first noticed the way Iris looked at Barry in s2 and was thrilled when they got engaged. While Killer Frost siding with Savitar to kill Iris for no apparent reason (we never found out what Savitar promised her) was awful I never got the impression that it was done out of jealousy. I think she hated Barry and wanted him to suffer. In 3x22 Killer Frost was the one who asked Savitar if he was really sure he wanted to go all the way, reminding him that Iris was the woman he once loved.
  12. Super(girl) Media

    I am happy that Imra and Mon-El broke up. Regardless of what happened or didn't happen with Kara Imra deserved better than a husband who emotionally cheated on her for the entirety of 3B. And she had secrets of her own. I believe that Mon-El wasn't meant to be permanent (even though I think they would have kept him on if he were less polarizing and at times problematic) but his arc was a mess. Maybe with Kreisberg being fired they felt like changing direction with the character but this whole thing just played out so stupidly. Basically Kara stops being sad at the exact same time the show starts to give Mon-El a POV and the audience finds out that he's still in love. She pines in 3A. He pines in 3B. Since the plan was to end Karamel, I agree that they should have done it after Kara's mourning period. The second half should have been about their friendship and partnership as superheroes. I think with Winn working with the Legion in the future fans of Mon-El and fans of Imra can hope to see them again in a guest capacity in s4.
  13. I don't think Brainy is 100% artificial. I too like that he's not the typical romantic lead but they need to tone down the quirkiness. If they intend to play Kara + Brainy as the two quirky dorks who crush on each other and are just really awkward and can't stop talking fast then I'm going to be annoyed. I'm open to it but not shipping it yet. I need to see more of them to figure out what kind of dynamic and chemistry they may have. I'm slow to ship and I agree that the show doesn't have a good track record with Kara's romances. I'm actually interested in what happens with Kara and Lena next season. Lena is still in the dark (ridiculous!) and they have kinda sidelined the friendship in s3.
  14. Caitlin Snow

    For me they just need to stop having her do selfish and evil things and get away with it while everyone else's flaws and mistakes get highlighted. It's a very manipulative tactic that makes me despise the character. It also reflects badly on the team because it looks like they have double standards/no moral code. This applies to both Caitlin and Killer Frost. I don't think I will ever be a fan but at least I won't roll my eyes every time she's on screen. I also believe the writers need to either A) turn her into a villain or B) depower her. I was never interested in Killer Frost, Central City's newest hero. It's a waste of money. Honestly, I think the only metas on the team should be Barry and Cisco. The ideal would be not constantly relying on STAR Labs at all but whatever... I don't think she was about to kiss him, maybe hug him or say something more but since the writers/director had her be interrupted for no reason they made the scene open to interpretation. On screen Snowbarry wasn't built on a "connection" or " surprising chemistry", but on weird directing choices like this one. I think Caitlin projecting her Ronnie feels onto Barry and Zoom is a good theory but since the writers don't care that's all we have, theories and a female character being unnecessarily thrown at too many men in the span of two seasons.
  15. The Flash in the Media

    I wasn't pleased with the writing for Wally when he was a regular but it was the actor who wanted out. I believe that if it were up to TPTB they would have kept him. Disappointed but not surprised that Ralph is now a regular. Since he survived the season, it was only a matter of time. Happy about Cecile and Nora.