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  1. S01.E06: Cherry

    I think not enough has been made of the competitive nature of the relationships among Amma and her friends. Even girls who are besties often envy each other over relative attractiveness to boys, and Amma's self-assurance (John Keene "likes" and "wants" her despite his behavior toward her that we've seen) not only attracts her girl-friends but also makes them hate her a little. And I wonder if that envy/hate enters into Adora's dislike of Camille--if Adora believes Camille is "uppity" for forsaking life as a matron in Wind Gap for a career, while Adora wants to control everything? I have been thinking that the identity of Camille's father isn't important, but I wonder if it matters whether Adora was married to him or not. We've heard nothing, as far as I can remember, about a first husband, and Adora certainly has nothing good to say about the man, which might mean that he abandoned her. We've also heard nothing (again, as far as I can remember) about Adora's parents. I assume she inherited everything from them, and she had no siblings, but I wonder how her own mother treated her, especially if she found herself pregnant and unwed. She told Camille that she thought Camille would "save" her, that Camille's innocent love was going to make her life good. How is it that a baby was able to disappoint her mother? A newborn? "I never loved you." Not even as a baby? If there was no husband, maybe the birth of Camille "ruined" Adora just as Camille has "ruined" herself with her scars. Does Jackie know the story surrounding Camille's birth, and who her father is? Jackie clearly knows more than she's telling. I can't help suspecting something not quite right about Marian's death, and maybe Camille being made to feel responsible somehow, when maybe it was Adora's action or lack of action that led to Marian's death. Epilepsy used to be considered shameful, largely because of the lack of control when the sufferer had a seizure. It's hard to appear ladylike if you are seizing, and it can happen in public places. People don't generally die from seizures alone, and the IV pole in Marian's room indicates something else, I think, like infection.
  2. S01.E06: Cherry

    Wow. What a treasure--a script! Thank you thank you thank you!
  3. S01.E06: Cherry

    My memory is about as reliable as Camille's. I'm working my way through rewatching, so I'll make a note when/if I come across it. ETA Never mind--Accidental Martyr has cleared it up.
  4. S01.E06: Cherry

    I'm with you. I'm sure Adora is indeed parroting what she heard about Anne Nash. But how are we to understand Camille's own memories of chopped-off hair? Do you think it's identifying with the murder victims? That's really all I've got. And fwiw, I think the Camille we've seen in her memories with short hair is much older than six or seven years old. Do we know how old Camille was when Marian died? I ask because I just rewatched the scene where Camille finds Adora sobbing in Marian's bed, is called downstairs by Alan and Gayla for her 16th birthday cake. Her hair is long, and she is in her cheerleader outfit. I had the feeling that this happened fairly soon after Marian's death. Re: Adora and Amma--Adora even lets the boys "do stuff" to keep them in line! I think it's obvious that there's something going on between Adora and the police chief. He says, "That's what I love about you, Adora, you don't pull your punches," and Adora, leaning back on the couch they're sitting on, with her arms stretched over her head--a sexually-inviting posture if I've ever seen one--says, "is that the only reason?" and they both smirk.
  5. S01.E06: Cherry

    Camille has a lot of "visions" or hallucinations, flashbacks and what may or may not be memories. I didn't mean to imply that Camille lied about anything, but her memories or whatever they are, as they are presented to us, are not always consistent with what we learn from other sources. Maybe the other sources are unreliable, or maybe Camille, with her demonstrated mental illness and alcoholism, isn't sure in her own mind what really happened and when. I also believe that Camille has blocked something important in her memory, and that if that becomes unblocked, a whole flood of truth is going to come out. I don't think it's possible to give the writers too much credit! This is a very artfully written and presented story, and I think anything that is shown us over and over, sometimes with differing explanations or versions, is worth noticing. Now admittedly, I'm really enjoying digging into this show, and I'm sure I go too far, but my posts come with no guarantee of accuracy or truth about the show! I'm probably the least reliable narrator, come to think of it.
  6. S01.E06: Cherry

    Never mind. Rewatching: When Camille shows Richard "the end zone" where the rapes occurred, she says "that week's lucky cheerleader," not "cheerleader of the week," which leads me to believe it was a weekly ritual rape. Richard says to Camille, when they're talking about who might have done the murders, that the pulling of the teeth was sort of like rape, a power play by someone who feels powerless. Alan is the person I think who feels the most powerless in this show. According to Adora, Camille was "six or seven" when she chopped off her hair.
  7. S01.E06: Cherry

    Ah-ha. Thanks. Labia, er, retracted. ETA: per Wikipedia, average hair growth is six inches per year. I think we're looking at at least two years to get Camille from very short to cheerleader long. I'm still not convinced that the hair thing is reliable, though, that Camille actually chopped off her hair. I think maybe her "memories" of herself with such short hair might be part of her identification with the murder victims.
  8. S01.E06: Cherry

    Did Becky actually see the cut? I thought she only saw blood running drown Camille's leg from her underpants area--leading everyone to assume it was her period. I thought Becky found out later that it was from cutting?
  9. S01.E06: Cherry

    Except that I never thought Adora was the killer, I agree with everything you say. I think what Jackie knows is really crucial, and I'm thinking it relates to what's wrong with Camille, and I'm not just talking about the cutting. I think something happened--not the rape, which I'm not sure Jackie would know about--that would explain a whole lot about why Adora insists that Camille is "dangerous." Because Camille identifies so much with the murdered girls, I'm wondering if Camille made some serious physical assault on someone, like Natalie and the pencil in the eye (which is just ghastly, particularly in response to something so minor as a stolen pencil) and Natalie and presumably biting off John's girlfriend's ear. Those are pretty serious, yet no one in town seems horrified enough, if you know what I mean. The veneer of "little girls" is hard to maintain if the "little girl"--at least one of them--has made assaults that left serious, permanent consequences on her victims. Adora insists on calling them "little girls" and acting as if they were precious little innocent things, but we've seen both from Natalie's violent history and from the behavior of the murdered girls' peers, like Amma, that they were far from innocent. My god, if Adora thinks Camille is dangerous, and thinks Natalie, who committed potentially murderous assaults, is a sweet little girl, what in the *hell* must Camille have done? Did Camille kill Marian? Is that why it's dangerous for Amma to be around her? Is that why Camille's bedroom is as far away from everyone else's as to be practically on another floor? As for the other cheerleaders not seeing Camille's "cherry" skin-cutting, I think the cuts are up higher than the top of her thigh, if you know what I mean. I think she might have cut her outer labia. ETA; I think you're exactly right that Adora planted that bike, or had it planted. Were we ever given a reasonable explanation for why it was found at this time? I know "one of the Mexicans" at the plant says he saw John Keene put it into the waste pond, but are we to believe that the Mexican guy came forward out of nowhere to report this? And why did he wait? I think Adora somehow knew where the bike was and had it placed there, then got one of her slaughterhouse employees to lie about what he'd seen. And do we think Adora and the police chief have had an actual physical affair? They're certainly thick as thieves.
  10. S01.E06: Cherry

    Oooh. Hadn't thought of that. I never considered that it might be more than one person. Never mind. Thought I had something to say but didn't. Wow. Thanks for posting this. It looks to me like none of the interior shots is from the real house, just the exteriors. But what a magnificent house it is. Much fancier than anything I grew up with. If all the interior scenes are from constructed sets, I think we can assume that there are reasons for every weird thing, like the position of Camille's bedroom in that upstairs hall. There were intentional decisions made as to how to depict the interior, and I think that's really significant. So, since it's a matter of sets, there is no blueprint. Dammit!
  11. S01.E06: Cherry

    I really have to disagree with you here. In the south, black hired help like Gayla occupied a very peculiar place in the families that employed them, especially if they had worked there forever, as Gayla apparently has. Notice that Gayla kisses Adora good-night, for example. Black housekeepers were privy to all the white family's dirt and were very protective of them, almost as if it were their own, blood, families. Gayla does occupy a mother-like position in Camille's family, as historically black women did--think of Gone with the Wind and the general popular notion of the place of "mammies" in southern white families. And that, I think, is the absolute origin of the Magical Negro--the loving, kind, asexual (especially asexual) standin for all the good human qualities that the white characters are allowed not to show. Can you imagine Gayla doing anything mean, even to Camille? You might think Gayla behaves the way she does to protect her job, but if she's lasted this long with Adora's family, she is "part of the family," which is a lie, of course, because none of the white characters gives two shits about Gayla's life outside of her serving them. I did see another black face on rewatching--the greeter at the church for Natalie's funeral. Didn't see any black faces in the congregation, though. As Gayla said, in Wind Gap employment opportunities for black people are pretty much limited to domestic work and the slaughterhouse. Maybe we haven't seen more black faces because we haven't seen all that many people who work at the slaughterhouse. I am guessing that the crude ex-football players work there, and of course we saw Natalie's brother lose his job there, but for all the talk of Mexicans working at the slaughterhouse, we haven't seen any brown faces, either.
  12. S01.E06: Cherry

    I agree. There must be a reason she chooses to wear dark clothing. Light-colored, light-weight long-sleeved shirts and pants would cover her scars just as well as what she is wearing, and be a lot more comfortable. Maybe all her underwear is black--what we've seen certainly is. When she wore the black dress Adora loaned her to the funeral, I noticed she wore stockings that were not particularly opaque, which surprised me. I expected to see her in black stockings. And her scars, to my eyes anyway, didn't show through the regular stockings. The sloppiness of her look might be a symptom of being a rape victim. Sometimes women who've been raped wear baggy, unattractive clothing to make sure they won't attract sexual attention. Her pants are pretty tight, though, so who knows?
  13. S01.E06: Cherry

    It's really hot here in PA today, and I'm thinking about how hot Wind Gap must be. A big house like Adora's would be fairly cool because of the way big southern houses were designed. That wraparound porch on the first floor would shade the first floor interior, and probably every morning the blinds and curtains would have been drawn against the bright sun, keeping the cool night air inside for as long as possible. That big empty stairwell probably served as what used to be called a belvedere, a sort of heat vent, with an opening--like a cupola or even a vented skylight--at the top to allow hot air out through the roof. If you close all the windows and doors on the sunny side of the house, and open some on the shaded side, the belvedere will create a draft, pulling cooler air in at the bottom and letting the hot air out at the top. Many old southern houses have a "straight-through" first floor, with a hall that runs unobstructed from the front door to the back. With front and back doors open, a breeze is allowed to blow through. Another way old houses handle heat is through transoms, those vent-windows over the interior doors. The ones in Adora's house have beautiful stained glass in them, which I've never seen in real houses; transoms are practical, not decorative. You open them to let hot air, which rises, out. The people in charge of this show might not know what transoms are for because in Adora's house, they are not only decorative, but closed. An obsolete expression, "through the transom," refers to unsolicited manuscripts left at publishers' offices. Please forgive my preachy tone: I'm an old lady who grew up in houses like Adora's, and memories make me loquacious.
  14. S08.E33: Reunion: Part 1

    I think Kailyn's degree (assuming she really got a degree) is in something like broadcast journalism, so her college training was for being on TV, but I'm with you--she's so unlikeable, who would want to watch her do anything? When somebody posted that she had approached Nev Schulman about co-hosting Catfish, I fell off my chair. Where does she get the idea she's all that? I post here and elsewhere in amazement about the way some men have confidence that no matter how big a loser they are, they believe they're attractive to women way out of their league, and Kailyn is like that, too, about her ability to interact with an audience. She's *very* unattractive, even at her best, because of the hulking nature of her posture and body movement; I'm not going after her weight because overweight people are fine and look great if they handle their bodies the right way (if that makes any sense). She translates *big* in an unattractive way and dresses and comports herself in ways that accentuate her bad qualities. But even if she got a great stylist and a coach to help her with her presentation of herself, there's still an inner flaw that makes her unsympathetic. I can't imagine her interviewing someone and coming across as if she really cared about them. Part of that is the TM self-absorption, fueled by being paid immense salaries to be self-absorbed (Farrah is probably the most extreme example of this), and part is her damaged personality that I think probably comes from having a mother who clearly didn't care about her. Kailyn has had a tough life, and unfortunately it shows. I think she needs intense psychotherapy, I really do, to figure out why she acts the way she does and to help her overcome her self-defeating attitudes and actions.
  15. S01.E06: Cherry

    Alan's role is a little weird, isn't it? He's the gentleman of the manor, yet really not much more than the male doll in Amma's dollhouse. He even kind of looks like a doll. I don't think it's coincidental that we're shown spider webs, even a spider wrapping up her prey for later, as part of the introduction. We know what female spiders do. He is kept, and Adora seems to control their sex life (we know they have one because she's borne him two daughters; otherwise, I'd be skeptical that she allows him to touch her). He spends his day isolated, listening to music on headphones and reading of all things National Geographic--did you catch the shelves of them in the music/living room? Does his choice of reading material indicate he'd like to travel, to get out of Wind Gap? Or is it the half-naked women who are sometimes shown in that magazine--I know that's what made it favorite "reading" material for boys in junior high school long before the internets. He's a natty dresser who seems to have no place to go other than to drive Adora around; he knows his place--when he's told the shopping trip is "girls only" he knows that he is the chauffeur, not part of the party. He hovers and sympathizes with Adora. And yet. He finally bursts out, reminding her that *he* lost a daughter, too, and she doesn't seem to "give him credit" for bearing his grief without complaint. What a strange way to put it! He didn't criticize her for acting as if she were the only one who loved Marian, whose loss must have been a heart-break, but for not acknowledging how bravely he's held up, I guess in contrast to her constantly reminding anyone who'll listen what a "strong" woman she has had to be. Henry Czerny, like every single other person in the cast, is magnificent in his role. I can't think of a single cast member who seems mis-cast or who isn't doing an extraordinary job of bringing these people to life. When I saw that Elizabeth Perkins (she plays Jackie) was in it, I rolled my eyes because I find her a little hard to take, but boy, her Jackie is totally on the mark. Hers is one of the most un-selfish performances in this show--she is allowing herself to look blowsy and vulgar, and she is perfect, imo. Even if the director is only Canadian-French, he's really, really good at getting the best out of his actors.