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  1. Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

    I think the depiction in Red Meat was just stupid because it focused on the utter Superman effect of Sam here who jumped up from his deathbed and still killed all the werewolves. Dean doesn`t have quite a comparable scene to that. Maybe something that would come closest would be him fighting off his own hunger as a vampire and still taking out an entire vamp nest. IF they had deemed to show the action onscreen. But in terms of torture I`m thinking of Lady Deadeyes with the burned feet and stuff like that. That was Arrow-like in terms of torture depiction. When she started going in on Dean with a beating, the camera cut away on the other hand. We did see Dean getting beat to smithereens by Lucifer in 5.22 and by Cas in two episodes but in those scenes the main focus wasn`t sympathy factor for Dean. It was either about him being a plot device or even "he is wrong and deserves it".
  2. Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

    Dean is usually the one threatened with suggestive, sexual violence, with especially demons getting in his face, touching him suggestively, making remarks and stuff like that. But you are right that outright torture scenes, they shy away from showing with him. Whereas with other characters, they are used in a woobifying manner. I mean, Jack, early on in the scene, stabbing himself was portrayed like "awww, poor thing" even though it didn`t hurt him and he didn`t even feel real pain from it. I think it is some form of trying to always portray Dean as the "tough one" (and even somewhat as the untouchable leader though I`m very sure that is wholly accidental on their parts) who isn`t woobified. Which of course gets him less of the "awww, poor baby" sympathy. What Dean gets is emotional vulnerability speeches, not so much bodily vulnerability. It`s interesting to compare to some other CW shows because on Arrow, they also show Oliver as this ultra-tough guy and he gets quite a lot of rather gruesome onscreen torture scenes - usually to show how tough he is by being able to physically endure this. So far, I`ve have seen him whipped, branded, waterboarded, stabbed and so on. Meanwhile on their vampire shows, they loved highly visual torture scenes with their supernatural characters (because they healed so quickly, you could do a lot) and it was male and female characters alike, no character was spared ever. Supernatural does versions of both with either Sam or Cas but really not Dean.
  3. I don`t think he truly believed it, he did hope for the best but Dean is more cynical than the others when it comes to such matters. Now I don`t have a problem with him not yelling "no" because the idea that you can so easily cast out an archangel like that is ludicrous to me. Even in lol!canon it hasn`t been established. If they did, it would make 5.22 even worse because if it was THAT easy, Sam wouldn`t have needed to know, he could have just done it, period. You say "yes" to possession, there are no real take-backs. Unless the angel himself is sick and weakened, then it levels the playing field for the vessel. There could be ways to bring in Dean even without mirror scenes. It could be some visible battle between the two. The one thing I absolutely don`t want are some "parallels" where everyone goes "oh, Sam was so super-strong, he overpowered Lucifer all by his lonesome but of course Dean is such a weak-willed person, he has no chance". That is what I meant by please no weak-Dean. Pitting the hell experiences against each other with even Dean himself having to insultingly belittle his own hell time as Disneyland just to prop up Sam as the one who suffered most in the entire history of creation bugged so much. I don`t want a replay of that in any way, shape or form. I want Dean`s strength acknowledged. Lock Singer out of the room when discussing and writing this so he can`t cut in with how stupid and pathetic and crazy Dean is. Lock Dabb out of the room, too. Or find some random person completely unfamiliar with Supernatural who wanders by their office building to write the thing. At least that would give you someone who wouldn`t get their rocks off humiliating the character. Already a step-up IMO.
  4. I think it would be interesting to see a geniune conflict between Jack and Sam, both on-and offscreen. Who would win the battle of saintly woobie? At this point, it would probably even be Jack. Dean, I just want as far away from such stuff as possible because he can never win or even do right. Hopefully, he gets something resembling a good storyline out of the Michael possession where he isn`t portrayed as weak or dumb. My absolute two no-gos. Anything but weak.
  5. Jensen saying there was a LOT more to use means they filmed a lot more, which means more work in those uncomfortable harnesses that didn`t pay off at all. It might also means the fight itself wasn`t necessarily so incredibly one-sided as it looked onscreen if they cut out basically 2/3 of it. All-around fiasco. And Jensen is someone who puts a lot of work into fight/stunt scenes and takes pride in them so this must have been a bitter pill to swallow. Singer is stuck too much in the 80s with his directorial style. Times have passed him by and he didn`t notice.
  6. I think the mid-air wirefight was ill-advised. Singer should have noticed that pretty quick after they started so there still would have been time to course-correct. And at least it should have been saved somewhat in editing. Really can`t give them (that is not the actors or stunt people who are hardly to blame for the mess) much excuses. Prior to another of my show`s Season Finales this year, I read what they did for their end fight and it sounded so silly and kind of cringeworthy. A giant blue doll fighting a bad CGI-creature? I watched it and that was fight was cute, funny and legit bad-ass. All my worries were dispelled upon seeing it. The wire-thing, I already tensed up at in the promo. A ground fight would have been lots better. Even a fight with multi-coloured CGI-balls could have had something. The freeze-frame was just purely editorial choice and a bad one. No, it`s not the end of the world but that is something an editor can try, look at a few times and then go "yikes, better not". That is what editing is for. Noone needs to see your bad attempts, noone needs to know your missteps. It`s just you and a couple computers.
  7. Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

    Since they have made the entire experience very bodily literal, even though it just happened to the soul, I don`t think he can accurately judge his feelings. The sheer absence of pain after so long of it would make his system flood with joy, no matter what he was doing. So did he feel enjoyment during this period? Yes, I`m quite sure he did. But it is IMO the most natural thing in the world. I`m sure he would also have enjoyed it immensely if the demons had simply left him alone, curled up in a corner, for those ten years. Anything that wouldn`t be relentless torture would be enjoyment. But since Dean can`t rationally process it like this, he feels guilty and thinks that made him an utterly horrible, amoral, psychotic person who is to blame. When in truth it was just another form of abuse performed on HIM which still makes him a victim in this scenario. The one who is horrible, to blame, amoral and psychotic and who I`m sure enjoyed himself for purely sadistic reasons was Alistair.
  8. This is the reviewer who once likened Jensen to a NeoNazi for not shipping Destiel. Hard pass.
  9. Spoilers With Speculation

    Hahaha, I`d be so there for it.
  10. Well, that was Season 8.B and Season 9.A and those are certainly hated by a lot of Dean-fans. I found it abhorrent how Dean was during the trials, culminating in the one-two-punch combo of his pathetic speech in the Season 8 Finale and the giving him the villain`s role in the Season 9 Opener. I certainly hated those. What I do give Carver credit for is the MOC storyline. Yes, it was mishandled, especially the Demon!Dean interlude, yes, there could have been so many more epic things with it. It wasn`t used to showcase Dean`s strength - even though I felt he showed quite a lot, the narrative in dialogue played it as if he was losing it 24/7. And yes, I spent every single episode of it petrified that the storyline would go over to Sam. That didn`t (last moment of near heart attack when Sam almost gets the Mark in Season 11) happen and it was a supernatural storyline where Dean got to have some supernatural powers here and there. He got some nice badass moments and even the odd flashy scene. Nothing that was made ludicrous by wire-work for example. For a Dean-fan like me, that was huge. Gigantic even. So far Dabb has not given me anything comparable. Who knows how long Michael!Dean is gonna last. An episode? Two? Who knows if he will get to display any powers. Who knows if Lucifer will come back right away in the Season 14 Finale and render the entirety of it meaningless. The odds for letdown on all accounts are quite high.
  11. The "I`m stronger, smarter, better" thing wasn`t something out of the blue that only showed up in Season 4 for Sam. He made a similar point as far back in Season 1 Asylum. And while the anger in this episode was amped up, Sam made those same points "sober" in the following episode. It was pretty much the same during Season 4 where he called Dean weak under the Siren spell and then called him weak the next episode under no spell. The words are nicer but the gist is the same. So those are IMO believes Sam has held for a long time, the demon blood and Ruby just brought those out in increasingly nasty ways. I remember just rolling my eyes during the episode where hallucination!Mary tells Sam that Dean can never know how strong he, Sam, is. Something akin to that happened with head!Bobby in the Season 9 Finale. Basically, I saw that before Season 4 and after. What I did think during Season 4 on first watch was that it was getting THAT nasty because it was gonna be adressed for real and progressed forward in a positive way in Season 5. Hahahaha, more fool me. Dean gets to be called a loser for a year and then be blamed for being the bully who is at fault for what goes wrong in the relationship the next. Oh, in Season 6 he is the loser again. Splendid. Fallen Idols was when I gave up on the relationship and any positive progression from the Season 4 dynamic. The Season 5 Finale then gave me the rest. They couldn`t have written a better anti-redemption stories in my eyes if they tried. Well, actual, if you think like me and others who believe the role is being so small that it might as well be non-existant, it goes without saying that it was non-crucial to me. I see nothing in it that was even remotely crucial. The episode would have worked just as well if Dean hadn`t been in it. Really crucial was John holding Azazel or Sam throwing Dean the blade before Lucifer could finish him, even as Michael. Even pigeon lady in the Season 11 Finale had a pretty crucial role. The car and a toy soldier had one in 5.22. Cas kinda contributed, that`s true. Hence, I think Michael spoke the truth on a meta-level. Dean wasn`t part of this story. It`s debatable if he was not "anymore" or if he had never really been at that point. And Chuck`s narration was full of shit, to be honest. They didn`t "choose each other". Sam heroically chose the world. Dean pathetically showed up at stull cemetary because quite frankly he was so useless, it`s not like he had something else to do or another purpose. It wasn`t unlike the Season 8 Finale when he was shuffled between Sam and Cas` stories because the writers really had no use for him in either one until making another pathetic declaration.
  12. Then he can`t use it as an argument on why Dean has to change his ways in the relationship because previously he drove him right into Ruby`s arms. And the episode was specifically tailored to make Dean look like a complete unreasonably bully and act like he doesn`t act normally on their cases. And like he didn`t act during Season 4. What is Sam´s argument here then? He regarded Dean as a stupid weakling in Season 4 because he was hopped up on demon blood and Ruby. However, the next year Sam basically says that Dean being controlling and bossy drove him to Ruby who made him feel good. Sam can`t keep his own narrative straight. If he saw Dean as a little weakling, he didn`t see him as controlling and dominant because one is the antithema of the other. He can`t in hindsight claim that the loser bullied him. Though, I feel that`s what he did and the narrative backed him up. And if he says he liked how Ruby made him feel, then perhaps he liked the feeling of superiority that she and the blood gave him. In which case the onus to change is on him. Or if he wants to say that he enjoyed Ruby`s way of making him feel strong, then he should be perfectly fine with a hunting partner who outwardly is submissive but secretely plays him for a fool. Holding up Ruby as a positive example doesn`t strike me as self-aware. This entire relationship convo should have been at least a quid pro quo deal. If Dean has to change, then Sam has to explicitely and verbally concede to what he plans to change and where he went wrong in the relationship. And it can`t just be "I will now tell you whenever I feel victimized by your unreasonably meanness". It would have to be something that actually adresses negative behavioural traits of Sam that he acknowlegdes and promises to work on.
  13. I think trying to make a deal with Michael was a longshot at best - and Dean knew that - but he had to try something. Lucifer was the immediate worse danger at the moment but AU!Michael wasn`t a fluffy bunny either. If Dean didn`t at least TRY something to possibly migitate the danger, it would have looked even worse. So it was a desperate attempt but it was better than nothing.
  14. He could have but it`s not like that would have been more effective than "we had a deal". In the entire show one angel, Gadreel, once said that while he was so weak himself, his vessel could easily kick him out whereas all other angel possession work as "you say yes once, for whatever reason and there are no take-backs ever". The angel Hannah even said how her vessel was screaming inside, no doubt something like "get out" 24/7. Michael is a strong archangel, kicking him out should be two trillian times harder.
  15. If accurate, probably a request by J2 in order to re-sign. Would do the show good either way.