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Umbelina

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  1. СССР (Союз Советских Социалистических Республик) is a Russian abbreviation for the Soviet Union or Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR). That's the country Elizabeth swore to protect, defend, have sex, steal, and murder for, oh yeah, and to have kids with her partner for as well. She fought for the USSR, for communism, not for past Russian regimes or beliefs, but for this one. She was a committed communist who believed communism was the only hope for the world, and that the USSR would be the one to lead the world into a new world of peace and plenty for all, without regard to race, sex, or bank account balances, since all would be equal. She brushed off all criticisms and realities about what her country was really doing. She didn't want to know that all the murders and sex and sacrifices she made were for a complete mess of an unfair country, where the wealthy and connected still had plenty, and the poor were starving, without freedoms, in a corrupt and ill designed system. She didn't want to know the South African man was called names. She didn't want to hear from Pasha's parents, or from William, or from Philip just how bad things were. She was a fanatic, and willfully blind. I know the history of Russia, my point is, Elizabeth's dream wasn't the Czars, Pogroms, or Religions of Russia, it was for the CCCR.
  2. With the exception of her husband, who didn't matter at all. Meanwhile, he sacrifices everything, especially his own peace of mind for her. They both share the blame, and they both suck. I'm sorry they are dead, but damn, how stupid can two people be?
  3. It's not because her country was astonishingly corrupt and lied to her, for example, about using the bioweapon. It's that in general I think blind patriotism to any country is idiotic, and "loving" country over family is a character flaw. Yes, I would say that about the USA as well. Elizabeth refused to listen, refused to see, even though Philip tried to open her eyes. She was more of a fanatic than a patriot. "Honor" requires a worthy cause, and self examination, as well as honesty and reflection about that cause. Her country WAS the Soviet Union, her cause was world communism. Russia is a location, she wasn't fighting for Russia, she was fighting and sacrificing for the USSR.
  4. Oh man, that's the other thing! Philip defying orders and sending Elizabeth to see her mother ended up just being ignored by them? Such bullshit. They already had a negative file on him from Elizabeth's tattling, and then he does that? Takes Martha out against orders as well, and then wants to quit? There is just no chance the KGB would have left him in play to possibly corrupt Elizabeth or throw a wrench into the big deal second generation plan. I wish Gabe had quit rather than murder Philip, it would have been such a good story. Then Claudia comes back to do it, but the KGB changes their mind, or even better, Elizabeth discovers something is up (and that story alone would have been more interesting than wheat and holes) and goes toe to toe with Center or Claudia about what will happen if Philip is killed, "accident" or not, ala Mrs. Pastor in some ways. Imagine her keeping it to herself, and then Philip finding out, now that would have been romantic and shown that Elizabeth would not pick/love country over Philip every single time.
  5. He was never "out." He continued to live with an active KGB spy, and provide her cover by staying at his fake job at the travel agency. His daughter was also involved. "Out" to me anyway, means absolutely nothing to do with the KGB. He never had that. Getting back involved because his "true love" needed him, and because Oleg convinced him that his country needed him was something any patriot would do. It also shows that he was never really out, not in any kind of meaningful, "go live your life however you want" way. I really think, by the way, thinking about that, that Gabe quitting would have been so much more powerful if he had been ordered to kill Philip, as an interference in their primo spy's job. They certainly hinted at it, with Gabe talking so much about killing friends under Stalin, and being trapped into that. They never went there though, which was kind of a head scratcher to me. It's hard to believe the KGB would have just left him there, refusing to do his job should have raised some concerns, a lot of them really, about him possibly subverting Elizabeth as well and the bigger issue of Philip possibly sabotaging Paige's future with the KGB. To me, it seems like both of those things made him much too big a risk to leave in place. The most balls Philip showed in the final season was when he realized his "true love" Elizabeth had used sex on him to get him to agree to set up Kimmy's abduction? He finally said "No." He said "No." a few other times during the run of the show, for example, when Haig declared himself "in charge" and the USSR freaked out, and Elizabeth wouldn't listen to reason. Philip saying "no" the few times that he did were some of my favorite scenes by the way. He also said "no." about Martha, to Gabe, and of course he said "no" to Paige being KGB, but was ignored by both the KGB and his "true love."
  6. He repeats that line, or other lines that are very similar to other people as well. Pretty sure to William during the conversation they had about Philip desperately wanting out of the KGB, but only if Elizabeth would come with him, while Gabe was recovering from the virus, and Elizabeth was reacting to the antibiotic. He says something very similar in the EST meeting, and I think something to Sandra as well, he comes damn close to saying something to Martha as well, but stops himself. Basically, he was a bleeding cry for help, but because of his addiction to Elizabeth, or "love" for her if you see it that way, he had no way out of a life that made him feel terrible all the time. Elizabeth knew it, which was obvious a couple of times, most specifically during the whole Glanders thing, when she tells him to blame the pastors' deaths on her (to the kids) and get out of the KGB and take the kids and just be Americans like you have always wanted to be. Elizabeth knew it was killing him inside, but didn't love him enough, or her kids enough, her country always came first. Soon after the show ends her country is dead, all of her ambitions for a communist world are gone, everything she put herself, her daughter, and her husband through was for nothing. Even if she isn't already dead by the time that happens? That will destroy her.
  7. I don't remember any specificity in his "feel like shit all the time" and every other version of that we have heard through the years from Philip, but let's say that is true. Who kept him in his job, at the travel agency covering for Elizabeth, who insisted on recruiting his child into that life? ELIZABETH. So, the two are hopelessly wound up inside each other there. And some some of the most devastating and worse times of his life as well. They were only a real couple for a short time, Elizabeth decided to love him, and stop insulting him behind his back to her real love for 12 years, Gregory, only in episode one. Philip, as I already said, was trapped, and no, I don't think his "love" for Elizabeth was healthy or good for him, she was just the only one the KGB allowed him to be honest with, even though she wasn't being honest with him, most of the time. Much more of an addiction than a love, and naive and childish and probably fed by her attractiveness, and ability to continue the guilt trip the KGB indoctrinated them with at young ages. Had he left her, and saved his children, he would have found happiness with someone else eventually, because he was a lovable man, someone who deserved far more than Elizabeth's version of love.
  8. Stan: The Patriot

    The president of the USA was negotiating with Gorbachev. Gorbachev was giving him what he wanted. This information would have gone to Reagan, and HE would have told Gorby. Lemme see, that's just ONE way it could have happened. Next way? Let Philip send the message before taking him in. There are probably a half dozen more ways this could have happened, the message gone through, that didn't involve Stan committing treason and lying to his coworkers. There is another one. Oleg could tell Stan the message because he hadn't decoded it yet. Philip is the one who GAVE it to him. All Philip had to do was tell it to Stan, or his interrogators in the FBI, who would, with alarming quickness, given the START negotiations? Pass it up the line to Gorby. There is no reason Philip or Elizabeth had to be there in person.
  9. He was guilty of being a spineless, passive weakling who foolishly thinks he "loves" Elizabeth, and ruins his life completely for that "love." It's a junior high version of love. Real love doesn't "make you feel like shit all the time" in order to keep them in your life. He was warped by the KGB, further warped by having no one at all he could be honest with except Elizabeth, and for a man so desperate for honesty he joined EST? That's a lot to handle. Elizabeth meanwhile, had her lover, and was in love with him much longer than she "loved" Philip, they laughed about Philip together, and clueless Philip didn't find out for over a decade. Of course he should have. He should have taken the kids and left Elizabeth long, long, long ago. He's a wimp, but that has nothing to do with him helping recruit Paige, because he never, ever did that. His weakness was his addiction to Elizabeth, and failure to move on from a destructive relationship, if not for himself, then certainly for his kids. Love doesn't hurt you or people you love. Philip never learned that, he was like a addict, and his drug was Elizabeth. With all the self help books out there back then, he should have read one, one written for a woman, since they were usually the ones in abusive relationships. True, and Elizabeth never once stopped Paige from being snotty and insulting about Philip. That 3 year time jump certainly eliminated a lot of difficult writing for the showrunners....
  10. S06.E10: START

    It's bizarre to me that anyone thinks Paige could "stand up to FBI questioning" let alone that Stan would commit further treason by "helping her lie to the FBI." Both Stan and Paige will be in prison. They MIGHT cover up Stan's treason to save face, but honestly, I doubt it. Either way? He's out of a job. I do think Renee is a spy, God knows Philip would know how to spot one, and he's never accused anyone else. Renee could kill Stan I suppose, if she catches on that he suspects her. Stan lied to the FBI, that's probably a crime as well, since he's a law enforcement officer, and he's falsifying everything he did, which Paige WILL spill about. No question, not one. These are professional interrogators. They will bring in outside agents as well, since most of those agents have socialized with that family. They will be dotting i's and crossing t's even more now than when the bug was found. Paige's concern (according to the show) is Henry, so she will confess and take heat off him, or she would, but they will have her tangled in her lies before her first bathroom break. You give these writers far too much credit. Seriously. The fans have made them geniuses, and for the first four years, that was almost earned. The final season was very good TV as well, it's just the entire lack of endings for anyone that bother me. I can even live with Stan letting them go, because Noah and Mathew sold the hell out of that. Then they "end" it before resolving what Stan will do next, how easy for them. Create a huge deal for everyone and then exit, stage left, and tell the fans "you guys write the endings, we can't wait to read them." The only person on screen they were slightly definite about was Oleg, when, in interviews, they say that he would never get out of prison. Stan probably confesses, then eats a bullet, his own, or one from Renee. Paige is in prison, probably not executed for treason. Henry is in a foster home probably in someplace like Kansas, in public school. Oleg's dad is probably quietly killed, mother maybe, wife? baby? Who knows? At the very least homeless, jobless. Elizabeth and Philip will be killed shortly. Claudia has important friends, and she's loose as well, and knows them better than anyone. I do think Claudia survives, at least until the Soviet Union falls in 2-3 years, then? Her whole life will have been for nothing, something Elizabeth would also have to face, except she'll be long dead. Arkady? Magic 8 Ball says "future cloudy." He went against his boss in the KGB, never a good move.
  11. S06.E10: START

    Of course it was both corny and cringeworthy. My point was WHY include that speech and then have Stan say "Oh, Russian spies, who lied to me all along, killed my partner, and my agents, and 3 FBI agents just last week, not to mention a General and a bunch of innocents working in a warehouse, enemies of the country I love...sure...boogie on out a here guys...."
  12. S06.E10: START

    There is a cool thread here that does nothing but speculate on the futures of all of the characters. Americans Part Two I think, or something like that. eta here you go
  13. Stan: The Patriot

    Also, Nina stopped watching the movie early in, while Sarah was still playing a role, she didn't see the end or middle, when it's revealed that Sarah, in many ways, is playing the men, not the reverse.
  14. Stan: The Patriot

    It kind of bothered me that they used that particular film for the showdown with Nina and Stan. The novel was much more complicated than that, and many think it's a very feminist novel, and shows the problems women have since everything in the novel is interpreted by men, told by men, judged by men. One of the endings proved that Sarah was still a virgin, in other words, it was gossip that "ruined" her, not her own actions. She, however, did encourage that gossip because she hated the constrictions placed on her by society, and that gossip gave her a certain kind of freedom that other women could not have. She preferred outcast to sitting in parlors and sewing and never speaking her mind. She loved to walk the cliffs and be in nature, again, against societal norms to walk so much, and walk alone. She seemed to encourage the false gossip about herself with the male lead, she was in control of all she could control in that world. She's actually, to me, quite the heroine in important ways. The movie treats the three ending issue by having the same actors play modern roles, actors on location. I thought that was very clever. Basically, what I'm saying her is Nina's reaction made little sense to me, it would make sense that men wrote those scenes though, because just as in the (amazing) novel, and if you'd read the novel the (thought provoking at the very least) movie, Sarah was no victim, no whore, but instead, a fascinating woman who made her own choices in spite of gossip, and refused to stay in boxes men and societal "norms" required. Looking at it as a love story is kind of bizarre to me. Sarah was in charge, not a true victim, and the lead male was dancing her tune, not the opposite. Maybe that was the point, since Stan was dancing Nina's tune as well? Either way, as written, it didn't work well for me, but perhaps it's because I love Fowles and have my own opinions on both movie and book? Oh, and Anna Karenina was my least favorite of Tolstoy's amazing books, it just all felt so melodramatic and sordid, although I did enjoy the Russian life of it all, that "love story" didn't grab me, I wanted to smash both of their heads together a few times. It may be time to try it again though.
  15. Yes, that poster did, several times. Others have said "they" (meaning Philip and Elizabeth.) It was never done by Philip, not once. Did he correct the lie that he believed about the tainted wheat? Who knows? Three year time jump. However if he didn't, it was probably due to humiliation, and certainly not to grooming Paige. That is one way to put it, and by far the most popular way! For me, I would say "obsession" with Elizabeth, to the point of his own mental, emotional, and now physical well being.